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Discussion for Forum Friendship commitment

Schweddy

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I have no problem with your placing limits on what people say. You are already doing that and I support that. What I don't support is the lack of integrity shown by an unwillingness to take responsibility for the fact that you already do control the content here, yet are trying to beg off such responsibility by claiming you are supporting some ideal your very role here contradicts.

You are trying to have it both ways. If you are so commited to free speech, then show it by your actions. Eliminate the moderation here entirely and turn it into a free for all. If you are commited to eliminating interboard squabbling, though,then do that. Place limits on people's abilities to engage in such just like you place limits on people's abilities in other regards. You aren't being at all consistant when you do not exhibit actions that flow logically from the stances you say you are taking.
There are unmodded areas on our forum. Perhaps you have forgotten your request for us to squelch those?

This is a forum friendship commitment thread.

Please keep it that way. Else you ensure publically that the integrity of this commitment is compromised by the forum you are representing.
 

Gardener

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There are unmodded areas on our forum. Perhaps you have forgotten your request for us to squelch those?

This is a forum friendship commitment thread.

Please keep it that way. Else you ensure publically that the integrity of this commitment is compromised by the forum you are representing.
I am not representing any forum here, Vauge. I am speaking only for myself, and speaking for myself I would say that the best way to ensure friendship between any two forums is to try to put one's money at least in the general vicinity of one's mouth rather than creating loopholes to avoid personal responsibility.

I support a commitment to friendship, and that is why I am trying to encourage you to take the steps necessary to ensure it. I am certainly no stranger to discussion groups and have seen more than one forum split into two or more. The interboard wars at these went on for months, stretching into years, and the reason for this was the fact that people did read both boards and webmasters at each site allowed their members to flame each other.

If you allow people here to flame other boards, then you are part of the problem rather than part of the solution if your stated objective is friendship.
 

tecoyah

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I am not representing any forum here, Vauge. I am speaking only for myself, and speaking for myself I would say that the best way to ensure friendship between any two forums is to try to put one's money at least in the general vicinity of one's mouth rather than creating loopholes to avoid personal responsibility.

I support a commitment to friendship, and that is why I am trying to encourage you to take the steps necessary to ensure it. I am certainly no stranger to discussion groups and have seen more than one forum split into two or more. The interboard wars at these went on for months, stretching into years, and the reason for this was the fact that people did read both boards and webmasters at each site allowed their members to flame each other.

If you allow people here to flame other boards, then you are part of the problem rather than part of the solution if your stated objective is friendship.

He certainly seems to have no problem allowing people from Other Boards flame His own, or his Moderation staff....as we see by your own posts. Seems we have a "Glass Houses", situation here which really does neither party involved any good at all. You speak of a freedom of speech, and yet your site bans people for no apparent reason, notes the mistake and reinstates them, then again places a Ban before the member can even make a post....(yes, that was me...heh). Its ok though....No offense taken.
My point is, you are trying to give critique of DP, based on your affiliation with HP, and then telling everyone you do not represent the site at all....Perhaps I am confused, but I don't think so. All I see here is an Olive branch handed across the gap, which is taken and used to wipe your A$$, personally, I would be insulted.....but fortunately it seems vauge is a bigger man than I.
 

Schweddy

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I am not representing any forum here, Vauge. I am speaking only for myself, and speaking for myself I would say that the best way to ensure friendship between any two forums is to try to put one's money at least in the general vicinity of one's mouth rather than creating loopholes to avoid personal responsibility.
Unsure if you realize it or not, as a moderator - you are indeed "representing" the other forum. It is part of your commitment for the other forum. Mods here are equally representing DP when it is realized.

If you allow people here to flame other boards, then you are part of the problem rather than part of the solution if your stated objective is friendship.
How do we do that without vendicating bias?
Short answer: We do not allow it in public, but have an available place for it.
I even personally asked a contributer to tone it down in the unmodded area - yet somehow you are still bitching.

Again, I would *strongly* suggest that you realize what you are saying in this thread before you say it at this point. It is not helping your overall goal.
 
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Tashah

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I would remind everyone that the FFC is a fledging initiative. The respective administrations from neither forum can unequivocally posit either the breadth of the mutual benefits or the scope of the possible pitfalls at this juncture.

The FFC is a foundation document which will no doubt evolve and mature with the passage of time and circumstance. We all learn as we go. Rather than focus on a few possible fractious points and waste precious inertia, we should channel our energies on building a mutually positive bond that overcomes contentious points... and instills a robust and unflagging confidence in our future endeavors together.
 

Gardener

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Unsure if you realize it or not, as a moderator - you are indeed "representing" the other forum. It is part of your commitment for the other forum. Mods here are equally representing DP when it is realized.


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I have assiduously avoided any direct comparisions. You seem bound and determined to frame this in terms of us vrs. them, however.

Heaven forbid that anybody should actually utilize a little bit of reason at a political debate forum, but I am simply trying to point out the logical inconsistancies of offering a friendship treaty, but also offering a place on your site for those people who wish to wage war.
 

Schweddy

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I have assiduously avoided any direct comparisions. You seem bound and determined to frame this in terms of us vrs. them, however.
No sir, I am responding to your concerns. You said we were "inconsistant" and we had "no such thing as free speech here". I let you know that your observation was incorrect. Again, every post has it's place.

Heaven forbid that anybody should actually utilize a little bit of reason at a political debate forum, but I am simply trying to point out the logical inconsistancies of offering a friendship treaty, but also offering a place on your site for those people who wish to wage war.
I see what you are saying and understand.

The forum that you refer to is not plublic and un-moderated with full on freedom of speech. Currently, there are no plans in changing it.

If you feel that this undermines the commitment; you are allowed to your opinion. But I respecfully disagree. The basement forum is not for specifically addressing any concerns of websites nor waging any war. The intollerant amoung us will correct them as said previously.
 

RightinNYC

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I have assiduously avoided any direct comparisions. You seem bound and determined to frame this in terms of us vrs. them, however.

Heaven forbid that anybody should actually utilize a little bit of reason at a political debate forum, but I am simply trying to point out the logical inconsistancies of offering a friendship treaty, but also offering a place on your site for those people who wish to wage war.
Are you serious? Please tell me this is all a joke.

Who

Actually

Cares

People, its a freaking political debate site, not the Marne. Yes, there's one forum here. Yes, there's one there. Yes, some people use both. I couldn't care less if you use one, both, neither, are a mod here, at both, or whatever. Why does it matter? As long as theres people to argue with about absurd political things, I'm happy.

And honestly, are your feelings really hurt because Volker whined about your site in the BASEMENT? Who cares, it's VOLKER for gods sake, do you really think that hundreds of people are going to flock to the basement, see his post, and go "Oh man, I was gonna go to HP before, but now I saw that and I have no desire to. And for some reason I have an inexplicable hatred for gardener now too. I bet he molests puppies. with cancer."

Just deal with it, and lets all grow up and get back to the good times when we just yelled at each other for using strawmen to twist each others words about political ****.
 

davideyoung

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People complain about other sites all the time. In my experience, most of these people broke site rules and had trouble for it. I am member of many debate and politics sites. I don't worry about the differences. I just abide by the rules of the site I am in at the moment and enjoy a good debate.
 

LiberalNation

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So are the two boards friends or not. I have a feelin not.

Oh the drama.
 

Schweddy

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So are the two boards friends or not?
Short answer: yes

Longer answer: yes indeed

However, davideyoung offered some very excellent advice:

davideyoung said:
I just abide by the rules of the site I am in at the moment and enjoy a good debate.
 

Tashah

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So are the two boards friends or not. I have a feelin not.

Oh the drama.
What a small world. Your avatar is exactly the same as that of a certain Moderator at HP. Regardless, welcome to Debate Politics.

No nail-biting drama LN. Just an honest attempt to cooperate and lend mutual support as needed.
 

LiberalNation

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What a small world. Your avatar is exactly the same as that of a certain Moderator at HP. Regardless, welcome to Debate Politics.
Same person, i change my name at every new board I join. Heard mention of this drama over there and can looking for it over here to see if I could find out more. I wasn't playin on thus board when all this went down so don't know nothin about it, or didn't.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by Gardener:
Well, first of all, there is no such thing as complete free speech here. There would be no mods and no modding were this commitment to free speech treat such as inviolate. There are limits, obviously so, and so if you were to apply reasoning to the situation, you would have to acknowlege these limits as a basic fact. Since you do place limits upon what people can and cannot say, and this is born out but the fact that you have even removed people from the site because of the things they say, then you are hardly in a position to argue that it is your unflinching loyalty to free speech that motivates you to treat it as inviolate. You don't. Not by basic design nor action, you don't. There are rules here, you (collectively) supply these rules and you enforce them.

All you have done in this case is to say "it is acceptable to say these things here, but not there", and since the notion of free speech is at odds with the notion of preventing attacks upon other sites, then your creation of special places on your site where you allow such is just a device where you have created your own loophole in order to justify the hypocrisy inherent in saying you support these mutually exclusive objectives. Logic dictates that since you already do place limits on what people say here, and the content of this site is completely at your discretion, then the fact that you are avoiding placing limits upon what people say in one instance but not another is by conscious design. It is the nature of that design that I question here, since my bullshite detector has been ringing off the hook.


I have no problem with your placing limits on what people say. You are already doing that and I support that. What I don't support is the lack of integrity shown by an unwillingness to take responsibility for the fact that you already do control the content here, yet are trying to beg off such responsibility by claiming you are supporting some ideal your very role here contradicts.

You are trying to have it both ways. If you are so commited to free speech, then show it by your actions. Eliminate the moderation here entirely and turn it into a free for all. If you are commited to eliminating interboard squabbling, though,then do that. Place limits on people's abilities to engage in such just like you place limits on people's abilities in other regards. You aren't being at all consistant when you do not exhibit actions that flow logically from the stances you say you are taking.
What's up with the micro-management? On the one hand, I agree with you on this point:
Originally posted by Gardener:
there is no such thing as complete free speech here. There would be no mods and no modding were this commitment to free speech treat such as inviolate.
But then you right into a couple of statements that smacks of hypocrisy.
Statement No.1:
Originally posted by Gardener:
If you are so commited to free speech, then show it by your actions. Eliminate the moderation here entirely and turn it into a free for all.
Statement No.2:
Originally posted by Gardener:
I have no problem with your placing limits on what people say. You are already doing that and I support that.
Let me just say on the free speech issue, that any forum that can put up with my a.s.s is prima facia evidence it values free speech. As far as the Basement is concerned, it provides a place for some of us to go blow off a little steam. Where you are not hampered by all the good manners and moderation you have upstairs. Where you can say whatever is on your mind (with the exception of the obvious against the law statements in the area of direct threats to another poster). Sometimes I get so pissed-off with some people, I have go downstairs to get my funk out. Then I can come upstairs and tolerate innocuous posts, such as yours.

So it's a nice balance between the two worlds.
 

Kelzie

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And for some reason I have an inexplicable hatred for gardener now too. I bet he molests puppies. with cancer."
Wait...will they think he molests puppies that have cancer, or that he uses cancer to molest puppies? And how exactly does one use cancer to molest someone? :mrgreen:
 

Thelost1

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And how exactly does one use cancer to molest someone?
I would tell you, but then I would be banned. And you wouldn't get to sleep tonight. Which would be a pity because it's christmas tomorrow and you'd be all tired and bitchy.
 
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