• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Did Trump cave on the shutdown

Yes, he caved like a prospector who found an underground bonanza. He's running backwards, after the Stone indictment.
 
Quag said:
Simple question did Trump cave on the shutdown?
Click to expand...

Absolutely, he caved.

I guess he was just that desperate to bop off to Marred-A-Lago to get in some golfing and hob-knobbing with his shadow administration down there.
 
Of course Trump caved in. Pelosi has him right where she wants him. That is reflected in his rapidly declining approval rating.
 
I'm sorry but it looks like about 70 percent of the comments here in this thread are not constructive.
Who won? I'll tell you honestly: I don't give a rat's ass.

The important question is, did everyone LEARN something from this?
Did everyone learn something that will serve us in the future?
Will we all be able to move forward from this and prevent a repeat in three weeks?

The time to throw around bon mots and gloating is probably closer to campaign season, if that's the kind of thing you need to mobilize your voters. Right now, the important thing to do is take stock of what our fellow Americans have just been put through and figure out how to never let it happen again.

NOBODY WON, at least not right at the moment.
Who is responsible? That's a different question but whether or not people think Trump caved, I am not sure it's the right question to be asking right at this particular moment although out of respect for the original person who created the thread I will try to give my best answer in the spirit with which the thread was created:

Trump realized it wasn't going to end well.

Sorry, but with all due respect, I cannot gloat. It feels too much like waking up after a tornado has flattened the neighborhood and all the walls in the house are shattered, but the kitchen table is still sitting with the breakfast dishes untouched, and the laundry room and pantry are still standing, albeit totally unsupported by anything else.

(Yes, that's taken from real life)

So, did everyone who needed to learn something, actually learn anything?
I certainly hope so.
I don't think this country can survive a year or two of rotating shutdowns one after another.
 
One can call it "Trump caved." One can, as did Lou Dobbs, say Trump "got rolled." One can, as my housekeeper has, say "Pelosi handed Trump his ass." One might instead say, as I do, that "Trump was thoroughly owned."

Whatever one calls it, this is what it boils down to:

This president ... just reversed himself. That’s a victory for Nancy Pelosi. It will be perceived as such on every television monitor and screen in the country. And to deny it is to try to escape from reality.
-- Lou Dobbs, Fox Business​

As the mother of a kid I mentor said, "Nancy saw. Nancy conquered. And Nancy came, and now she needs a cigarette." LOL
 
Sure he caved. He was losing GOP support for the shutdown and there is no way Pelosi/Schumer were ever going to budge on passing funding for a wall. So...he 'caved'. Should he have? Tough to say. As soon as he did the leftist media exploded and painted this as a victory for Pelosi and Schumer and a defeat for Trump. Hmmm...so...what does that leave us with? Oh yeah...the reality that government workers got caught in a political pissing contest...with the fact that Pelosi and Schumer are crowing over their victory over Trump (and frankly...since what they won is a temporary 3 week opening after hundreds of thousand of people got ****ed over in THEIR political games, is THIS a good look?)

Government_Shutdown_63226.jpg-5c953_c0-186-4447-2778_s885x516.jpg

But yes...absolutely. Trump caved. And its going to cost him. So we'll see what happens in 3 weeks. Maybe they come to the table and make a deal. Maybe they shut it down again. Maybe Trump goes his own way on the wall. But he lost this round for sure.
 
Perotista said:
I never said they didn't. As for blame, leaving out the wishy washy little and concentrating on a lot. 41% of Americans blamed Democrats in congress for the shutdown, 42% blamed the Republicans in congress a lot. Somehow the Republicans in congress seem to get left out of conversations like this. It's the Republicans in congress whom I hold mostly to blame because they didn't get their job done of passing all 12 appropriation bills by the end of the fiscal year when they controlled both chambers. They got 5 passed and signed into law on time, the other 7 they didn't.

Trump, 57% of Americans blame him a lot. Questions 20A, B and C. if you want to add a little blame to the a lot blame, you can check that out yourself.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/183c0vbnai/econTabReport.pdf

I'll just add the figures for no blame at all. 25% of Americans says the Democrats in congress have no blame for the shutdown. 13% say the republicans in congress hold no blame at all. 22% say Trump has no blame at all.

I just say the republicans in congress should hold most of the blame since they failed to do their job while in the majority of getting all 12 appropriation bills passed by the end of the fiscal year thus setting up the shutdown. I probably look at things different than the partisans, Republicans and Democrats since I don't fall into either the anti Trump or pro Trump group. I'll support his policies when I'm for them, oppose them when I'm against just like I have done with every other president in my lifetime.
Click to expand...

Presidents come and go as do your views and opinions. The posts remain as consistent however as a box full of pretzels. Boxes of pretzels right off the assembly line. Independents vote with whichever party base dominates a given election cycle. Independents are a weather vane whose fluctuating aim is flipped to an fro by the prevailing gales and gusts. Thank you for the demonstration.
 
Who showed the most compassion over the government workers being punished financially over the shutdown?
 
Helix said:
if non-Trumpists win in 2020, it's time to end the possibility of using a shutdown as a bargaining tool.

as for the potential shutdown in three weeks, air traffic controllers have learned how to end it quickly : prevent the very rich from conveniently flying in and out of NYC.
Click to expand...

The interesting thing is how this was blown out of proportion... I flew in and out of NYC this past week, to JFK, and both arrival and departure were on time, actually some 6 minutes earlier. The airport seemed totally normal. There were weather-related delays, due to high winds and extreme cold, but I actually doubt that air controllers or TSA workers had anything to do with it.

But anyway, Trump's shutdown was stupid... including politically. He said in all words in the Oval Office, in that infamous debate with Chuck and Nancy, that he, Trump, was taking the blame for the shutdown... so his attempts to later blame the Democrats didn't really work... and as his popularity kept dropping, he had to capitulate, his tail between his legs. Stupid move.

Is this the great negotiator you guys keep praising? LOL
 
Yes, obviously.
 
Tangmo said:
Indeed and they are Republicans and other Conservatives who were digging for anything they can get from the corrupt and contorted Trump presidency. Now they're trapped inside that collapsed mine that caved.
Click to expand...

We could send down fresh water and air, but Dear Leader dismantled the EPA.

/shrug/
 
Perotista said:
Putin has nothing to do with the wall. Since when has the democratic party become the war party? All I'm saying is a compromise could have been worked out. Adult elected officials would have done so. If Reagan and Tip O'Neal could work out compromises on Ronnie's SDI almost every year of Reagan's presidency, so too could have Pelosi, Schumer and Trump.

There is in my opinion much blame to be put on the Republican congress of last year for not passing the final 7 appropriations bills prior to the end of the fiscal year. They failed to do their job, although they did get passed and signed into law 5 of the 12 by the proper time. Put the republican congress on the top of my blame list.

Then in December the Republican House did pass a CR with funding for the wall that would have prevented a shut down. Schumer and the Democrats filibustered it. Put them in my number two slot.

January, the Democratic house passed a CR with no funding for the wall, McConnell tabled it. Put McConnell in the third slot.

What should have happen was reconciliation. It didn't.
Click to expand...


Putin's best mileage in Europe and in USA comes from hitting immigrants and immigration. Exploiting nationalism and racism is Putin's strong suit. Putin's got LePen in France, Farage in UK and Trump in USA, among others in EU countries. Your posts either ignore this or deny it.

Your posts also fail to recognize that the Republican Party has finally placed country above party and that it's the wrong country. Your posts seek to carry on as if nothing outside of them were occurring, starting with elections themselves. Your accusation the Democratic party is now the war party is about Russia but it's the rightwing line of deflection that is consistent with Kremlin claims that are bogus.
 
Last edited:
Cardinal said:
There was always funding for border security. $1.6 billion, remember? So why would that be a "bluff"?
Click to expand...

And there was always money for building a wall, under Obama and several other presidents.
 
noonereal said:
what exactly is her bluff?

What is it I am missing?

Dems are open to talking about securing the border, they always have been.

Trump can pound salf with his stupid wall crap. That has not changed.
Click to expand...

They have always been open to building a barrier as long as it wasn't for Trump while it was perfectly fine for Obama. I need someone to explain to me how Democratic proposals for securing the border actually stop illegals from coming into the country in the first place. I don't see it. All of their proposals revolve around catching these people after they already enter the country, which is exactly what the illegals want because they want to cross the border, be arrested, and then claim asylum. Convince me that Democratic proposals for border security will stop illegals from crossing the border so they can't be arrested and claim asylum because they will never get here in the first place.
 
Moderate Right said:
They have always been open to building a barrier as long as it wasn't for Trump while it was perfectly fine for Obama. I need someone to explain to me how Democratic proposals for securing the border actually stop illegals from coming into the country in the first place. I don't see it. All of their proposals revolve around catching these people after they already enter the country, which is exactly what the illegals want because they want to cross the border, be arrested, and then claim asylum. Convince me that Democratic proposals for border security will stop illegals from crossing the border so they can't be arrested and claim asylum because they will never get here in the first place.
Click to expand...

The wall is a solution for an invented problem. I don't care about who supported what back when. Right now, immigration is in a huge slump. No one is pouring across the border. 2/3rds of illegals are visa overstays and the 1/3rd remaining no one can say the majority of those came where there was no wall.

You stop illegal immigration by cutting off their ability to make money. To do so, you jail employers that hire illegals. Leverage fines against these globalist scum.

Anything less will do absolutely nothing to fix the border "issues".
 
Obscurity said:
The wall is a solution for an invented problem. I don't care about who supported what back when. Right now, immigration is in a huge slump. No one is pouring across the border. 2/3rds of illegals are visa overstays and the 1/3rd remaining no one can say the majority of those came where there was no wall.

You stop illegal immigration by cutting off their ability to make money. To do so, you jail employers that hire illegals. Leverage fines against these globalist scum.

Anything less will do absolutely nothing to fix the border "issues".
Click to expand...

It's not an invented problem when tens of thousands of illegals cross over into the US every year.
 
Moderate Right said:
It's not an invented problem when tens of thousands of illegals cross over into the US every year.
Click to expand...

And only a portion of them, an overwhelming MINORITY, come across the border illegally. 66% come in and overstay their visas. 33% come through tunnels, in cars, in boats, in planes, over the wall, or in some cases, across the "unwalled" section.

Fixing the income issue is the solution. Jail employers and sieze all funds transmitted to mexico from illegals. CAF laws exist and rob Americans of millions of wealth every year. Why is it ok for illegal immigrants to send money to mexico that they earned in the comission of a crime?

I want a real solution, not an edifice to the ego of a New York Real Estate Agent who made his millions off tax abatements and scams.
 
Obscurity said:
And only a portion of them, an overwhelming MINORITY, come across the border illegally. 66% come in and overstay their visas. 33% come through tunnels, in cars, in boats, in planes, over the wall, or in some cases, across the "unwalled" section.

Fixing the income issue is the solution. Jail employers and sieze all funds transmitted to mexico from illegals. CAF laws exist and rob Americans of millions of wealth every year. Why is it ok for illegal immigrants to send money to mexico that they earned in the comission of a crime?

I want a real solution, not an edifice to the ego of a New York Real Estate Agent who made his millions off tax abatements and scams.
Click to expand...

NO. Tens of thousands cross the border ILLEGALLY.
 
Moderate Right said:
NO. Tens of thousands cross the border ILLEGALLY.
Click to expand...

And some of them come across where there is no wall. More come under the walled sections or unwalled sections in tunnels. More come in on boats and in cars, or trucks.

You ignore the rest of my post for convenience. Why?
 
Quag said:
Simple question did Trump cave on the shutdown?
Click to expand...

Yes.

It was the right thing to do. His base will hate him for it, his critics won't thank him for it, but it was the right thing to do. Let's see what comes next..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom