• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Did Trump cave on the shutdown

The fight is not over yet. That was round 1. Now it's up to the Dems to do what they promised. Open government and we'll negotiate. Now the ball is in the Dems court. What are they going to do? Sit on their ass and continue to say NO. Or cut a deal all can live with which includes a complete package with barriers.

It will be an interesting 3 weeks. And if a deal is made, then Trump wins. There has not been a complete immigration bill for decades. Trump is forcing a sit down of congress to make a deal, of which no president has been able to do in the past. So we'll see.

After seeing that...

a)Trump lost the public debate on the wall,
b)Independents overwhelming blamed Trump and Senate Republicans for the shutdown,
c)Trump caved and is likely to cave again, and
d)the Republican Senate line was in the process of cracking.

...what motivation would Democrats have to put a wall in the next spending bill? Make sure that your answer takes the above four points into consideration.
 
Wow. You guys really think you're going to get your wall, don't you?

I never wanted a wall.
I want what we have in my town, San Diego, but you already knew this IF you were being honest.

You can run along now...
:2wave:
 
I never wanted a wall.
I want what we have in my town, San Diego, but you already knew this IF you were being honest.

You can run along now...
:2wave:

You said: "It's not over until the fat lady sings..."

So what does your "victory" look like?
 
Simple question did Trump cave on the shutdown?

Yes and no. He should have never done it in the first place because it was a fight he couldn't even win before Democrats took over the House so it was obvious that he wasn't going to ever win this one either. Pelosi called his bluff but now Trump has called hers. She demanded that the government be reopened first and then they could negotiate border security. So, he has called her bluff and now it is up to Democrats to prove they were actually serious about negotiating.
 
Some of the anti-Trumpers who liked your post must think he is Catholic.

Too funny.
Why do you think he did NOT cave?




As you know, "Is the Pope Catholic?" is a set phrase that = Of course. Isn't it obvious?


Mona: Do you think that she [no names, of course] has had some plastic surgeries to look that young for her age?


Raul: Is the Pope Catholic?


Mona: Of course, he is.


Raul: Well, there's your answer!
 
Yes and no. He should have never done it in the first place because it was a fight he couldn't even win before Democrats took over the House so it was obvious that he wasn't going to ever win this one either. Pelosi called his bluff but now Trump has called hers. She demanded that the government be reopened first and then they could negotiate border security. So, he has called her bluff and now it is up to Democrats to prove they were actually serious about negotiating.

There was always funding for border security. $1.6 billion, remember? So why would that be a "bluff"?
 
I just showed you the most recent poll, Democrats and half of independents don't want the wall. Republicans and half of independents do want the wall. Half wanting it and half not wanting it doesn't mean or can be translated into all Americans not wanting it.

One more time, 83% of republicans along with 39% of independents want the wall. 84% of Democrats along with 40% of independents oppose the wall, they don't want it. Question 5

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/183c0vbnai/econTabReport.pdf

That is a fairly even split. There is no ALL.

Stop screwing around. The majority of Americans do not want a wall. Every poll shows this.
 
Yes and no. He should have never done it in the first place because it was a fight he couldn't even win before Democrats took over the House so it was obvious that he wasn't going to ever win this one either. Pelosi called his bluff but now Trump has called hers. She demanded that the government be reopened first and then they could negotiate border security. So, he has called her bluff and now it is up to Democrats to prove they were actually serious about negotiating.

what exactly is her bluff?

What is it I am missing?

Dems are open to talking about securing the border, they always have been.

Trump can pound salf with his stupid wall crap. That has not changed.
 
Last edited:
Even Dan Coulter knows he caved. ****ing *****.
 
After seeing that...

a)Trump lost the public debate on the wall,
b)Independents overwhelming blamed Trump and Senate Republicans for the shutdown,
c)Trump caved and is likely to cave again, and
d)the Republican Senate line was in the process of cracking.

...what motivation would Democrats have to put a wall in the next spending bill? Make sure that your answer takes the above four points into consideration.

I said this is round 1. The Dems said open the government and we'll negotiate. OK what does that mean. The Dems sit on their ass and just say NO because they hate Trump over county. Or are they going to negotiate in good faith which will be something for everyone including a wall? So which is it. The ball is in your court. My view after all the yelling by the Dems to open government and we'll negotiate, and they don't come up with a bill that Trump will sign that will be a huge loser for you. The Dems will lose by public opinion, as being obstructionist. It boils down to the Dems giving money for the wall and cutting a deal or standing your ground and no money for the wall that kills any deal. Its either or.

You claim there is no motivation for the Dems to put in money for a wall. I totally disagree. Their motivation is to show this country they can work out their differences. If you stand your ground and no money period for a wall, you will lose by taking that position. If you think there is no motivation to make a deal with Trump, and you standfast, good luck with that.
 
I said this is round 1. The Dems said open the government and we'll negotiate. OK what does that mean. The Dems sit on their ass and just say NO because they hate Trump over county. Or are they going to negotiate in good faith which will be something for everyone including a wall? So which is it. The ball is in your court. My view after all the yelling by the Dems to open government and we'll negotiate, and they don't come up with a bill that Trump will sign that will be a huge loser for you. The Dems will lose by public opinion, as being obstructionist. It boils down to the Dems giving money for the wall and cutting a deal or standing your ground and no money for the wall that kills any deal. Its either or.

You claim there is no motivation for the Dems to put in money for a wall. I totally disagree. Their motivation is to show this country they can work out their differences. If you stand your ground and no money period for a wall, you will lose by taking that position. If you think there is no motivation to make a deal with Trump, and you standfast, good luck with that.

Your reply did not take into account the four facts I listed. Here they are again:

a)Trump lost the public debate on the wall,
b)Independents overwhelming blamed Trump and Senate Republicans for the shutdown,
c)Trump caved and is likely to cave again, and
d)the Republican Senate line was in the process of cracking.
 
Your reply did not take into account the four facts I listed. Here they are again:

a)Trump lost the public debate on the wall,
b)Independents overwhelming blamed Trump and Senate Republicans for the shutdown,
c)Trump caved and is likely to cave again, and
d)the Republican Senate line was in the process of cracking.

Can't help you, I gave you my opinion, if that is not good enough. See Yah :2wave:
 
Can't help you, I gave you my opinion, if that is not good enough. See Yah :2wave:

Your opinion certainly wasn't good on any level since it wasn't based on any real world facts.
 
Simple question did Trump cave on the shutdown?

Yes.

He really didn't have a choice as the GOP pretty much abandoned him but the result is the same.
 
Your opinion certainly wasn't good on any level since it wasn't based on any real world facts.

Christ, can you even think? Opinions are just that, Opinions. Not facts
Please bone up.

opinion noun
opin·​ion | \ ə-ˈpin-yən \

Definition of opinion
1a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter
We asked them for their opinions about the new stadium.

b : APPROVAL, ESTEEM
I have no great opinion of his work.

2a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge
a person of rigid opinions

b : a generally held view
news programs that shape public opinion

3a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert
My doctor says that I need an operation, but I'm going to get a second opinion.

b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based
The article discusses the recent Supreme Court opinion.
 
Limiting it to three weeks does give him some leverage if the others don't give some ground. Another shutdown would be a lot more grey area on blame.

Yes, he caved, he had to. Single digit approval was in his future. Let's see how the war plays out since he surrendered the battle.

Grey area on blame? As long as its one person saying "i want new funding on this or ipl shut the government down!" Then its no grey area.

Heres a very simple way of looking at this. Lets say republicans 6 months ago passed a bill to fund the wall. Now democrats are saying you muzt rrmove that funding that was already passed or they will not pass any bill f7nding the government. Whos at blame? Obviously democrats. Well right now we have tye exact opposite. No funding has been approved. And he cant take the country hostage just to get what he wants.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
 
Christ, can you even think? Opinions are just that, Opinions. Not facts
Please bone up.

opinion noun
opin·​ion | \ ə-ˈpin-yən \

Definition of opinion
1a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter
We asked them for their opinions about the new stadium.

b : APPROVAL, ESTEEM
I have no great opinion of his work.

2a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge
a person of rigid opinions

b : a generally held view
news programs that shape public opinion

3a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert
My doctor says that I need an operation, but I'm going to get a second opinion.

b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based
The article discusses the recent Supreme Court opinion.

Opinions can be stupid, and here's an example:

"I don't like Orange is the New Black because the space battles were poorly executed."

That opinion is stupid because, as you may have already observed, there are no space battles in Orange is the New Black. That was exactly the way in which your post was stupid, because your opinion was not based on the real world facts in question.
 
Opinions can be stupid, and here's an example:

"I don't like Orange is the New Black because the space battles were poorly executed."

That opinion is stupid because, as you may have already observed, there are no space battles in Orange is the New Black. That was exactly the way in which your post was stupid, because your opinion was not based on the real world facts in question.

Give it up. You libs make fools of yourself. I will agree Opinions coming from liberals are STUPID. Example you libs give out all this Bull**** there is a truck load of evidence Russia colluded with Trump to win the election. And the reason it's so stupid is because your opinion was not based on the real world facts in question.

Have a good time playing in your sandbox
 
Give it up. You libs make fools of yourself. I will agree Opinions coming from liberals are STUPID. Example you libs give out all this Bull**** there is a truck load of evidence Russia colluded with Trump to win the election. And the reason it's so stupid is because your opinion was not based on the real world facts in question.

Have a good time playing in your sandbox

Thread title: "Did Trump cave on the shutdown?"

So not only are you posting stupid opinions not based in reality, but you also appear to not know which thread you're in.
 
Thread title: "Did Trump cave on the shutdown?"

So not only are you posting stupid opinions not based in reality, but you also appear to not know which thread you're in.

:beatdeadhorse :2wave:
 
Stop screwing around. The majority of Americans do not want a wall. Every poll shows this.

Did you even look at the poll? All Americans, 41% favor the wall, 46% oppose. A plurality oppose. Not all Americans, not even a majority of Americans. A plurality of Americans oppose the wall. That means more Americans oppose the wall than are in favor of it. It also means not a majority and certainly not all.

Those numbers have been pretty consistent within a few points one way or the other for quite a long time now. It means exactly what I said it means, Republicans and approximately half of independents favor the wall, Democrats and approximately half of independents oppose the wall. Numbers, facts.

The wall is strictly a 100%, pure partisan issue. A D next to your name means you oppose, an R next to your name means you favor. Ultra partisanship sure can blind some folks.
 
Back
Top Bottom