Did Trump cave on the shutdown

[noonereal]

Simple question did Trump cave on the shutdown?

LOL

Is there a wingnut spin that suggests he didn't?

If so, this I gotta hear.

What did President Laura Ingram say?

 

[holbritter]

No it wasn't worth the shutdown, it should have never happened. It wasn't about the left winning, it was about you can't force the american taxpayer to pay for his promise that mexico would pay. Every other point is BS. I still say there is no way the government shuts down again and if trump won't sign, he will be overridden.

Since I'm forced to pay for a fund for Congressmen to pay off their sexual harassment victims, I don't mind being forced to pay for something like fixing and adding to the wall.
You speak as if no president has broken a promise that has cost taxpayers. Did you actually believe him in the first place?

 

[noonereal]

My stance on this, compromise at 2.5 billion. Each side gives 2.5 and gets 2.5. This all or nothing stances, more or less give me everything I want and you get nothing isn't a good thing. If this had been in the era of Reagan and Tip O'Neal, there wouldn't have been a shutdown. Almost every year of Reagan's presidency those two worked out a compromise on SDI. The same could have been done on the wall.

This whole thing was utterly stupid, asinine in fact. A battle of 5 billion which comes out to approximately 0.0125% of the 4 trillion this government will spend this year. That is between one one hundredth and two one hundredth of a single percentage point.

Was it worth the shutdown, I suppose Democrats will say yes. That they saved the government 5 billion by remaining firm. But I have to wonder if the shutdown didn't cost us much more than 5 billion. But that is partisan politics at its worst. On both sides. It's one of the main reasons I could never be a Republican or a democrats, each places their party high above country. But this is the era we live in, polarization, deep divides, ideologues entrench on both sides, neither thinking about the country. Just how to advance the R or the D. No wonder both parties are shrinking bit time. From 36% Democratic, 32% Republican and 30% independent to 30% Democratic, 26% Republican and 43% independent today.

For me, the biggest problem is our two party system where even the shrinking two major parties still have all the power and control they did when 80% of the population identified with them. That I suppose is another subject for another thread on another day.

We have no majority that wants a wall so nothing should be funded for a wall. It's common sense.

This has nothing to do with the budget. This is a separate issue that Trump is trying to merge to the budget deal as leverage.

If he wants the wall, let himself it to a majority of the American voters. That will compel a majority of the Senate and House to authorize it.

and no, only teh GOP under Trump places party over country. Neither party has in the past and the DEms do not now. BTW, I am a life long REpublican, never TRumper.

 

[Manc Skipper]

He settled on the same terms he refused and shut down the government, all those weeks ago. He's still threatening to inflict yet more pain on the hostages in three weeks. Cave.

 

[Airyaman]

My opinion?

 

[bongsaway]

Since I'm forced to pay for a fund for Congressmen to pay off their sexual harassment victims, I don't mind being forced to pay for something like fixing and adding to the wall.
You speak as if no president has broken a promise that has cost taxpayers. Did you actually believe him in the first place?

And I'm forced to pay school taxes for the kids I don't have. And if it makes you feel better, the dems will propose a bill to stop that practice. Every president tells lies but not like this one and no, I never believed mexico would pay for his wall.

 

[chuckiechan]

Simple question did Trump cave on the shutdown?

He did mostly because of airport security issues. The next shutdown will have a different set of victims.

And we still have DACA and other classes. While DACA seems protected, he can increase enforcement of other categories and send them packing. He can also raid and deport more illegals.

Everyone talks about Eisenhower's "military industrial complex", but never about his "Illegal labor industrial complex". Funny how that works.

 

[Tangmo]

My stance on this, compromise at 2.5 billion. Each side gives 2.5 and gets 2.5. This all or nothing stances, more or less give me everything I want and you get nothing isn't a good thing. If this had been in the era of Reagan and Tip O'Neal, there wouldn't have been a shutdown. Almost every year of Reagan's presidency those two worked out a compromise on SDI. The same could have been done on the wall.

This whole thing was utterly stupid, asinine in fact. A battle of 5 billion which comes out to approximately 0.0125% of the 4 trillion this government will spend this year. That is between one one hundredth and two one hundredth of a single percentage point.

Was it worth the shutdown, I suppose Democrats will say yes. That they saved the government 5 billion by remaining firm. But I have to wonder if the shutdown didn't cost us much more than 5 billion. But that is partisan politics at its worst. On both sides. It's one of the main reasons I could never be a Republican or a democrats, each places their party high above country. But this is the era we live in, polarization, deep divides, ideologues entrench on both sides, neither thinking about the country. Just how to advance the R or the D. No wonder both parties are shrinking bit time. From 36% Democratic, 32% Republican and 30% independent to 30% Democratic, 26% Republican and 43% independent today.

For me, the biggest problem is our two party system where even the shrinking two major parties still have all the power and control they did when 80% of the population identified with them. That I suppose is another subject for another thread on another day.

Your posts present your supposed dangers Democrats would be prone to pursue but you let the Republicans off the hook. We read this while you go on to condemn both parties. You also missed that the Republican party has put country above party but it's the wrong country. In congress it's well known that whupping Trump is whupping Putin. Your posts pretend nothing outside 'em is happening.

 

[DaveFagan]

Simple question did Trump cave on the shutdown?

YES!!!!!!!!

Check back in 3 weeks. Perhaps he'll cave again.
\/

 

[Perotista]

No it wasn't worth the shutdown, it should have never happened. It wasn't about the left winning, it was about you can't force the american taxpayer to pay for his promise that mexico would pay. Every other point is BS. I still say there is no way the government shuts down again and if trump won't sign, he will be overridden.

The bottom line is the shutdown probably cost us much more than the 5 billion. We went past the the point where the shutdown cost this country much more than whatever point or principle each side was standing firm on was worth it. I highly doubt an over ride can be accomplished. It take 2/3rds vote in each chamber to accomplish that. 290 house members, 67 senators have to vote to over ride. I think republican representatives in very pro Trump districts won't do it and neither will GOP senators in states that are pro Trump.

If the GOP representatives did vote to over ride they would in all likely hood be targeted to be primaried out in the pro Trump districts. The senate might be a bit different as there are 34 senators up for reelection in 2020. 22 are Republican held seats. But in the Republican primaries in those states, going against Trump in an over ride could be fatal. Still that leaves 31 other GOP senators that might go along with the over ride, the Democrats need 20. Probably easier among those senators not up for reelection.

Self preservation usually seems to rule the day when it comes to our elected officials.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Simple question did Trump cave on the shutdown?

Yes.

Nancy Pelosi still maintains that not a penny for Trumps campaign wall will be approved by the House. But she will negotiate for stronger border security measures.

Trump can't do another hostage shutdown. The GOP in Congress won't go through that agony again. Trumps only viable remaining card is the "national emergency" tactic.

 

[Perotista]

We have no majority that wants a wall so nothing should be funded for a wall. It's common sense.

This has nothing to do with the budget. This is a separate issue that Trump is trying to merge to the budget deal as leverage.

If he wants the wall, let himself it to a majority of the American voters. That will compel a majority of the Senate and House to authorize it.

and no, only teh GOP under Trump places party over country. Neither party has in the past and the DEms do not now. BTW, I am a life long REpublican, never TRumper.

Who wants and who doesn't want the wall. Republicans 83-9 in favor of the wall, Democrats 84-9 against it. Purely partisan there. But how about the less to non-partisans, those who don't affiliate or identify with either party. Independents who make up 40% plus of the total electorate today? Independents 39% for, 40% against. Question 5

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/183c0vbnai/econTabReport.pdf

An objective person would look at that and come to the conclusion that Democrats and half of independents are against the wall, Republicans and half of independents for the wall.

So you're right, no majority for the wall and no majority against the wall. It is 100% purely partisan by the hard core of each party.

I do beg to pardon, both parties put the good of their party over the country. If either party was worried about the country, this shutdown would have never happened. something would have been worked out. The Democrats, the newly elected house and Speaker Pelosi wanted a victory over Trump no matter what the cost was to the country. They got it. I suppose I should say congratulations. Adults, those who put country first would have never let it come to this. They did. Case closed.

 

[Perotista]

Your posts present your supposed dangers Democrats would be prone to pursue but you let the Republicans off the hook. We read this while you go on to condemn both parties. You also missed that the Republican party has put country above party but it's the wrong country. In congress it's well known that whupping Trump is whupping Putin. Your posts pretend nothing outside 'em is happening.

Putin has nothing to do with the wall. Since when has the democratic party become the war party? All I'm saying is a compromise could have been worked out. Adult elected officials would have done so. If Reagan and Tip O'Neal could work out compromises on Ronnie's SDI almost every year of Reagan's presidency, so too could have Pelosi, Schumer and Trump.

There is in my opinion much blame to be put on the Republican congress of last year for not passing the final 7 appropriations bills prior to the end of the fiscal year. They failed to do their job, although they did get passed and signed into law 5 of the 12 by the proper time. Put the republican congress on the top of my blame list.

Then in December the Republican House did pass a CR with funding for the wall that would have prevented a shut down. Schumer and the Democrats filibustered it. Put them in my number two slot.

January, the Democratic house passed a CR with no funding for the wall, McConnell tabled it. Put McConnell in the third slot.

What should have happen was reconciliation. It didn't.

 

[noonereal]

Who wants and who doesn't want the wall..

The American people do not want the wall.

GOP elected Representatives would vote for a wall because they are fearful to break ranks as Donald is popular among the deplorables.

 

[Rogue Valley]

The Democrats, the newly elected house and Speaker Pelosi wanted a victory over Trump no matter what the cost was to the country. They got it. I suppose I should say congratulations. Adults, those who put country first would have never let it come to this. They did. Case closed.

You have it backwards I believe. Trump believed he could bully Nancy Pelosi and the newbie Democrats. He couldn't, and he caved as the vast majority of the country blamed Trump for the shutdown. .

 

[Xelor]

Did Trump cave on the shutdown

Yes...

 

[Cardinal]

Of course he caved. How is this even a question? He tortured 800,000 Federal workers and one million contractors just to arrive at the place he was at before Coulter scolded him on Twitter.

The real question is, is he stupid enough to shut down the government again?

 

[Perotista]

The American people do not want the wall.

GOP elected Representatives would vote for a wall because they are fearful to break ranks as Donald is popular among the deplorables.

I just showed you the most recent poll, Democrats and half of independents don't want the wall. Republicans and half of independents do want the wall. Half wanting it and half not wanting it doesn't mean or can be translated into all Americans not wanting it.

One more time, 83% of republicans along with 39% of independents want the wall. 84% of Democrats along with 40% of independents oppose the wall, they don't want it. Question 5

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/183c0vbnai/econTabReport.pdf

That is a fairly even split. There is no ALL.

 

[Josie]

Of course he caved. How is this even a question? He tortured 800,000 Federal workers and one million contractors just to arrive at the place he was at before Coulter scolded him on Twitter.

The real question is, is he stupid enough to shut down the government again?

Tortured? Can you exaggerate any more than that?

By your logic, anytime the government has been shut down, the workers affected have been "tortured". Therefore, in the 90s Bill Clinton and the Democrats tortured hundreds of thousands of workers for almost a month. Right?

 

[Perotista]

You have it backwards I believe. Trump believed he could bully Nancy Pelosi and the newbie Democrats. He couldn't, and he caved as the vast majority of the country blamed Trump for the shutdown. .

I never said they didn't. As for blame, leaving out the wishy washy little and concentrating on a lot. 41% of Americans blamed Democrats in congress for the shutdown, 42% blamed the Republicans in congress a lot. Somehow the Republicans in congress seem to get left out of conversations like this. It's the Republicans in congress whom I hold mostly to blame because they didn't get their job done of passing all 12 appropriation bills by the end of the fiscal year when they controlled both chambers. They got 5 passed and signed into law on time, the other 7 they didn't.

Trump, 57% of Americans blame him a lot. Questions 20A, B and C. if you want to add a little blame to the a lot blame, you can check that out yourself.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/183c0vbnai/econTabReport.pdf

I'll just add the figures for no blame at all. 25% of Americans says the Democrats in congress have no blame for the shutdown. 13% say the republicans in congress hold no blame at all. 22% say Trump has no blame at all.

I just say the republicans in congress should hold most of the blame since they failed to do their job while in the majority of getting all 12 appropriation bills passed by the end of the fiscal year thus setting up the shutdown. I probably look at things different than the partisans, Republicans and Democrats since I don't fall into either the anti Trump or pro Trump group. I'll support his policies when I'm for them, oppose them when I'm against just like I have done with every other president in my lifetime.

 

[trixare4kids]

Limiting it to three weeks does give him some leverage if the others don't give some ground. Another shutdown would be a lot more grey area on blame.

Yes, he caved, he had to. Single digit approval was in his future. Let's see how the war plays out since he surrendered the battle.

Excellent summary.
It's not over until the fat lady sings...

 

[Superfly]

 

[trixare4kids]

Is the Pope Catholic?

Some of the anti-Trumpers who liked your post must think he is Catholic.

Too funny.
Why do you think he did NOT cave?

 

[Cardinal]

Excellent summary.
It's not over until the fat lady sings...

Wow. You guys really think you're going to get your wall, don't you?

 

[Born Free]

Simple answer... YES! He should of never started it if unable to see it to a successful conclusion.

The fight is not over yet. That was round 1. Now it's up to the Dems to do what they promised. Open government and we'll negotiate. Now the ball is in the Dems court. What are they going to do? Sit on their ass and continue to say NO. Or cut a deal all can live with which includes a complete package with barriers.

It will be an interesting 3 weeks. And if a deal is made, then Trump wins. There has not been a complete immigration bill for decades. Trump is forcing a sit down of congress to make a deal, of which no president has been able to do in the past. So we'll see.