Did the virus sicken ad kill all it was going to in certain states?

[Paradoxical]

I would like input mainly from the conservative posters here as I consider you more rational and logical in your analysis as opposed to the emotions and hyperbole of the left. As we know, there are 4 states on the east coast who had a tremendously high death rate, and this in spite of wearing masks and social distancing. At the same time other states had drastically lower death rates. We saw an uptick in those states in the past few weeks or so. I have heard no reports that the states experiencing an uptick now are NOT wearing masks in public.

More Than 20 U.S. States Now Require Face Masks In Public : Coronavirus Live Updates : NPR

The list of states with mask mandates includes California, Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Nevada, New York, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Virginia, Washington and West Virginia.

Similar mandates in Texas and Ohio are limited to counties where the coronavirus case rate surpasses government thresholds. Hawaii also has a statewide mask mandate, which applies to customers and staff at businesses.

The states I put in bold letters were the subject of my OP because they border each other and have the highest death rate per million, by far. YET.....they are now having the lowest percentage of NEW deaths of all. The states that previously had low death rates per million are now having much higher death rates even though each of those states require masks (as per the above link) just like the four states of New York, New Hersey, Connecticut and Massachusetts which have death rates of between 3 and 5 times higher.

So, something is going on and no one wants to talk about it. They can't use the mask excuse because masks are mandated and people are wearing them.

I submit my opinion for discussion and feedback. I think that there are millions of people who just don't catch the virus no matter what, mask or no mask. i think there are people who could have someone with full blown COVID cough in their face and not get it and millions others who get it and don't even know it or have very mild symptoms. Conversely, I think there are those that are going to get it no matter what, even if they wear the perfect mask and stay 6 feet away from others. I think this is what we had in the heavily hit states that border each other where the virus spread like wildfire after being introduced by Chinese coming from Wuhan and other parts of China and no matter what, the virus was going to do its thing and infect and kill people regardless of a mask or not. this whole mask bit is guess work and conjecture by some lab wonks using machines and not humans and not taking into account that people use aunt Mary's home made special.

So..........in New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, and Massachusetts that are seeing drastic reductions in death rates, it is because the virus has killed those who would be killed....the elderly and the weak and there really are no more that the virus can kill in those locales because it has done its job.

In the states that are now seeing an uptick, it is because the virus has not yet finished doing its "job" and is infecting and killing people WITH masks, meaning masks are useless and just provide a placebo for the wearers. IOW, in spite of lab tests, this virus goes through these masks and will infect and kill people depending on their age and overall health, no matter what. The numbers bear this out.

I appreciate any thoughts and comments from conservatives.

 

[Drawdown]

Not a "conservative" but the answer is probably not. Statistics aren't a great predictor of these sorts of things. At one point they suggested smokers were at lower risk. At other point, they suggested that O blood types were at lowest risk. My guess is it plundered the populations of people who didn't take it seriously and didn't social distance for whatever reason and once it got bad enough, they took it seriously. Now it is moving on to populations who are not taking social distancing seriously. Human nature suggests eventually the former will become the latter again over time as people start putting convenience ahead of their health.

 

[swing_voter]

When the virus first hit hard in New Jersey and New York, doctors didn't know how to treat it.

Today doctors have a better idea of how to treat the virus so many more lives are saved.



Reported coronavirus deaths yesterday:
• France: 0
• United Kingdom: 0
• Canada: 4
• Germany: 6
• Italy: 6
• United States: 1,450

 

[bearpoker]

Here's what happened in Kansas:
Kansas counties with mask mandate show steep COVID-19 drop

BELLE PLAINE, Kan. (AP) — Kansas counties that have mask mandates in place have seen a rapid drop in cases, while counties that only recommend their use have seen no decrease in cases, the state’s top health official said Wednesday.

Dr. Lee Norman, the state health department’s top administrator, said Wednesday that overall statewide the numbers of new cases is favorable, but that the reduction of new cases is entirely in the counties that require masks be worn in public spaces.

After Gov. Laura Kelly put a mask mandate in place last month, 15 counties stayed with the mandate while 90 counties abandoned it, Norman said at a news conference Wednesday.

Norman pointed a graph showing the seven-day rolling average of cases per 100,000 people comparing counties with the mask mandates with those counties that abandoned it. The favorable trend line down was entirely in the counties that required the use of masks, while the trend line for those without one was flat, he said.

“Do masks work? Here in this natural experiment called Kansas where we have essentially — not due to any great design, but it has worked out that way — some counties have been the control group with a no mask mandate and some have been the experimental group with masks,” Norman said. “The experimental group is winning the battle. All improvements in case development comes from those counties wearing masks.”

 

[Lovebug]

Not sure what that means

Did the virus sicken ad kill all it was going to in certain states?

I read it 3 times, still doesn't make sense.

 

[bearpoker]

I would like input mainly from the conservative posters here as I consider you more rational and logical in your analysis as opposed to the emotions and hyperbole of the left. As we know, there are 4 states on the east coast who had a tremendously high death rate, and this in spite of wearing masks and social distancing. At the same time other states had drastically lower death rates. We saw an uptick in those states in the past few weeks or so. I have heard no reports that the states experiencing an uptick now are NOT wearing masks in public.

More Than 20 U.S. States Now Require Face Masks In Public : Coronavirus Live Updates : NPR



The states I put in bold letters were the subject of my OP because they border each other and have the highest death rate per million, by far. YET.....they are now having the lowest percentage of NEW deaths of all. The states that previously had low death rates per million are now having much higher death rates even though each of those states require masks (as per the above link) just like the four states of New York, New Hersey, Connecticut and Massachusetts which have death rates of between 3 and 5 times higher.

So, something is going on and no one wants to talk about it. They can't use the mask excuse because masks are mandated and people are wearing them.

I submit my opinion for discussion and feedback. I think that there are millions of people who just don't catch the virus no matter what, mask or no mask. i think there are people who could have someone with full blown COVID cough in their face and not get it and millions others who get it and don't even know it or have very mild symptoms. Conversely, I think there are those that are going to get it no matter what, even if they wear the perfect mask and stay 6 feet away from others. I think this is what we had in the heavily hit states that border each other where the virus spread like wildfire after being introduced by Chinese coming from Wuhan and other parts of China and no matter what, the virus was going to do its thing and infect and kill people regardless of a mask or not. this whole mask bit is guess work and conjecture by some lab wonks using machines and not humans and not taking into account that people use aunt Mary's home made special.

So..........in New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, and Massachusetts that are seeing drastic reductions in death rates, it is because the virus has killed those who would be killed....the elderly and the weak and there really are no more that the virus can kill in those locales because it has done its job.

In the states that are now seeing an uptick, it is because the virus has not yet finished doing its "job" and is infecting and killing people WITH masks, meaning masks are useless and just provide a placebo for the wearers. IOW, in spite of lab tests, this virus goes through these masks and will infect and kill people depending on their age and overall health, no matter what. The numbers bear this out.

I appreciate any thoughts and comments from conservatives.

You don't understand what a placebo is.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Questions:

1. Based on the linked chart, were the spikes in northeastern states at time when wide scale social distancing and mask usage was being practiced?
2. What does the timeline on the cited chart show after the measures were in place (mid March)?
3. Have the cases in the northeast remained flat with cautious easing of restrictions versus less restrictive reopening plans seen in other regions?

 

[Moot]

Not sure what that means
I read it 3 times, still doesn't make sense.

I did too...until I realized he meant "and" instead of "ad."

 

[Lovebug]

I did too...until I realized he meant "and" instead of "ad."

Yeah, I looked at the op and decided the same old nonsense wasn't worth worrying about.

 

[Moot]

Yeah, I looked at the op and decided the same old nonsense wasn't worth worrying about.

You did better than me, I only got as far as the title. lol

 

[noonereal]

I would like input mainly from the conservative posters here as I consider you more rational and logical in your analysis as opposed to the emotions and hyperbole of the left. .

rotflmao

Biden Harris will put you folks back in your place ASAP

 

[noonereal]

You did better than me, I only got as far as the title. lol

I read the first sentence, started to laugh and left.

 

[Lutherf]

I would like input mainly from the conservative posters here as I consider you more rational and logical in your analysis as opposed to the emotions and hyperbole of the left. As we know, there are 4 states on the east coast who had a tremendously high death rate, and this in spite of wearing masks and social distancing. At the same time other states had drastically lower death rates. We saw an uptick in those states in the past few weeks or so. I have heard no reports that the states experiencing an uptick now are NOT wearing masks in public.

...

I can only tell you what is going on in Tucson and out here we saw an increase in both cases and deaths after reopening. That increase peaked a month ago and has been going down since. Over time I have seen more people wearing masks on a regular basis but I have also seen more people in restaurants NOT wearing masks as they sit in groups of 2-10. If the people at restaurants aren't causing an increase in cases then I have a hard time believing that masks alone are making as much of a difference as we're lead to believe.

The single biggest difference I have seen is that people have generally stopped panic buying. Grocery stores, hardware stores, home goods retailers, etc. simply aren't as busy as they were a couple of months ago and that means less people standing in line "social distancing". I'm kind of thinking that the panic buying encouraged people that felt sick or even knew that they were sick to run out and stock up before they quarantined themselves. Now that the panic is over those people don't feel the same compulsion to run out.

 

[Visbek]

I would like input mainly from the conservative posters here as I consider you more rational and logical in your analysis as opposed to the emotions and hyperbole of the left.

:lamo

As we know, there are 4 states on the east coast who had a tremendously high death rate, and this in spite of wearing masks and social distancing.

Hello? Case and death rates fell AFTER they started distancing. It was also so early that doctors and hospitals were still figuring out what they could do to reduce the death rates. Yeesh.

At the same time other states had drastically lower death rates. We saw an uptick in those states in the past few weeks or so. I have heard no reports that the states experiencing an uptick now are NOT wearing masks in public.

They have lower death rates because:

• It is a much younger cohort getting sick -- the average age is 35, whereas previously it was around 50

• Nursing homes are getting better at protecting patients

• We're testing more, which is finding more mild and moderate cases

• Doctors and hospitals have a few ideas on how to avoid putting people on ventilators

• As with NY/NJ etc, case rates started to fall when social distancing, including mask requirements, were reimposed

So, something is going on and no one wants to talk about it.

Nope, nope, wrong, MSM and medical authorities have discussed this for WEEKS.

Amid COVID-19 resurgence, fewer deaths. Dr. Fauci explains why. | American Medical Association

Why Is the COVID-19 Death Rate Down? - The Atlantic

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

As Covid-19 cases rise among younger adults, expect a lower death rate for now, says former CDC director - CNN

That's just the tip of the iceberg. There has been a lot of coverage of US death rates being lower this summer than in the spring.

I submit my opinion for discussion and feedback. I think that there are millions of people who just don't catch the virus no matter what, mask or no mask.

Yes, and I'm sure your claim is based on your vast expertise and training in epidemiology. :lamo

Since you missed it, the US alone is a nation of 330 million people. If 10% of US citizens were immune before the pandemic started, that still leaves over 300 million people who can get sick. That can mean millions dead before we have a vaccine.

i think there are people who could have someone with full blown COVID cough in their face and not get it and millions others who get it and don't even know it or have very mild symptoms.

So what?

That doesn't change ANYTHING about the need to wear masks. The problem is that because people can be contagious before they have any visible symptoms, they can get other people sick without realizing it.

I think this is what we had in the heavily hit states that border each other where the virus spread like wildfire after being introduced by Chinese coming from Wuhan and other parts of China and no matter what....

I think your argument is moronic.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that geographic location makes you less likely to die from COVID-19?!?

this whole mask bit is guess work and conjecture by some lab wonks using machines and not humans....

No, it's also based on observational studies. Nations and counties with wide-spread use of masks see fewer cases. Yeesh.

So..........in New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, and Massachusetts that are seeing drastic reductions in death rates, it is because the virus has killed those who would be killed....the elderly and the weak and there really are no more that the virus can kill in those locales because it has done its job.

No, no, no. The virus most certainly has NOT killed every high-risk person in NY, NJ, CT, MA. Not even close. Your claim isn't even remotely based in reality.

in spite of lab tests, this virus goes through these masks and will infect and kill people depending on their age and overall health, no matter what. The numbers bear this out.

:roll:

Yaay, another anti-science and fact-free rant against masks!

Social distancing works. Masks help. When you are near people and can't social distance properly, just wear a mask. It's not that difficult to understand.

 

[danielpalos]

I would like input mainly from the conservative posters here as I consider you more rational and logical in your analysis as opposed to the emotions and hyperbole of the left. As we know, there are 4 states on the east coast who had a tremendously high death rate, and this in spite of wearing masks and social distancing. At the same time other states had drastically lower death rates. We saw an uptick in those states in the past few weeks or so. I have heard no reports that the states experiencing an uptick now are NOT wearing masks in public.

More Than 20 U.S. States Now Require Face Masks In Public : Coronavirus Live Updates : NPR



The states I put in bold letters were the subject of my OP because they border each other and have the highest death rate per million, by far. YET.....they are now having the lowest percentage of NEW deaths of all. The states that previously had low death rates per million are now having much higher death rates even though each of those states require masks (as per the above link) just like the four states of New York, New Hersey, Connecticut and Massachusetts which have death rates of between 3 and 5 times higher.

So, something is going on and no one wants to talk about it. They can't use the mask excuse because masks are mandated and people are wearing them.

I submit my opinion for discussion and feedback. I think that there are millions of people who just don't catch the virus no matter what, mask or no mask. i think there are people who could have someone with full blown COVID cough in their face and not get it and millions others who get it and don't even know it or have very mild symptoms. Conversely, I think there are those that are going to get it no matter what, even if they wear the perfect mask and stay 6 feet away from others. I think this is what we had in the heavily hit states that border each other where the virus spread like wildfire after being introduced by Chinese coming from Wuhan and other parts of China and no matter what, the virus was going to do its thing and infect and kill people regardless of a mask or not. this whole mask bit is guess work and conjecture by some lab wonks using machines and not humans and not taking into account that people use aunt Mary's home made special.

So..........in New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, and Massachusetts that are seeing drastic reductions in death rates, it is because the virus has killed those who would be killed....the elderly and the weak and there really are no more that the virus can kill in those locales because it has done its job.

In the states that are now seeing an uptick, it is because the virus has not yet finished doing its "job" and is infecting and killing people WITH masks, meaning masks are useless and just provide a placebo for the wearers. IOW, in spite of lab tests, this virus goes through these masks and will infect and kill people depending on their age and overall health, no matter what. The numbers bear this out.

I appreciate any thoughts and comments from conservatives.

Surgical masks protect Others not the wearer. Some studies showing masks to be less effective may mean even just a few maskless persons in close proximity who are asymptomatic can help spread the virus and make it worse if it gets in the mask of a wearer and "gets stuck in there". It is Why right wingers should not be claiming the pandemic is a hoax.

Red States which had lower cases may be having higher upticks in cases due to public events where masks were not being worn.

 

[Paradoxical]

Not a "conservative" but the answer is probably not. Statistics aren't a great predictor of these sorts of things. At one point they suggested smokers were at lower risk. At other point, they suggested that O blood types were at lowest risk. My guess is it plundered the populations of people who didn't take it seriously and didn't social distance for whatever reason and once it got bad enough, they took it seriously. Now it is moving on to populations who are not taking social distancing seriously. Human nature suggests eventually the former will become the latter again over time as people start putting convenience ahead of their health.

I disagree. I think we need a statistician to analyze these numbers in more depth and if I have time, I will do a spreadsheet. From what I am seeing, this virus kills those who are susceptible to it and then stops, This is why we are seeing the drop in those states that had the highest deaths per million. There just isn't any new people with the conditions the virus needs to kill Seems rather plain when you look at it. There is no other reason. Same as the Spanish flu. It killed a lot of people and stopped. No one knows why it did and no ever will. Best guess is that those who survived just couldn't be killed, like we are seeing with COVID.

 

[Paradoxical]

You don't understand what a placebo is.

A placebo can be anything. It doesn't have to be a pill It is the MIND that makes you feel safe. You wear a mask ad you feel like Batman or superman.

 

[Paradoxical]

rotflmao

Biden Harris will put you folks back in your place ASAP

I said I wanted conservatives mainly because this is a serious OP and I need adults in the room.

 

[Paradoxical]

When the virus first hit hard in New Jersey and New York, doctors didn't know how to treat it.

Today doctors have a better idea of how to treat the virus so many more lives are saved.



Reported coronavirus deaths yesterday:
• France: 0
• United Kingdom: 0
• Canada: 4
• Germany: 6
• Italy: 6
• United States: 1,450

And those deaths are NOT in the states that were hot hard at first.

Are you telling me that NY and Mass know how to treat the virus and aren't telling other states? LOL.

So, more people are dying in California and Texas now and the docs in NY are not telling them how they did it.

 

[SCrider]

Not sure what that means
I read it 3 times, still doesn't make sense.

You're not conservative enough to understand real genius.....

 

[bearpoker]

A placebo can be anything. It doesn't have to be a pill It is the MIND that makes you feel safe. You wear a mask ad you feel like Batman or superman.

A placebo effect is about whether a drug or therapy helps or cures a condition or illness, or not. It's not about prevention. You can either wear a mask or not. You can't wear a non mask to check for placebo effect. Your use of the term is incorrect and inappropriate.

 

[Paradoxical]

Here's what happened in Kansas:
Kansas counties with mask mandate show steep COVID-19 drop

BELLE PLAINE, Kan. (AP) — Kansas counties that have mask mandates in place have seen a rapid drop in cases, while counties that only recommend their use have seen no decrease in cases, the state’s top health official said Wednesday.

Dr. Lee Norman, the state health department’s top administrator, said Wednesday that overall statewide the numbers of new cases is favorable, but that the reduction of new cases is entirely in the counties that require masks be worn in public spaces.

After Gov. Laura Kelly put a mask mandate in place last month, 15 counties stayed with the mandate while 90 counties abandoned it, Norman said at a news conference Wednesday.

Norman pointed a graph showing the seven-day rolling average of cases per 100,000 people comparing counties with the mask mandates with those counties that abandoned it. The favorable trend line down was entirely in the counties that required the use of masks, while the trend line for those without one was flat, he said.

“Do masks work? Here in this natural experiment called Kansas where we have essentially — not due to any great design, but it has worked out that way — some counties have been the control group with a no mask mandate and some have been the experimental group with masks,” Norman said. “The experimental group is winning the battle. All improvements in case development comes from those counties wearing masks.”

allegorical. Kansas isn't really one of those heavily populated areas and their death rate is just 136 per million versus New Jersey at 1797 per million. they are not a good comparison. They had 4 death yesterday compared to New Jersey at just 2. This tells me the virus petered out in New Jersey because there aren't enough hosts left.....they have all been taken care of by COVID with almost 16,000 dead compared to just 396 in small Kansas.

 

[bearpoker]

I said I wanted conservatives mainly because this is a serious OP and I need adults in the room.

:lamo Then you need to leave.

 

[Luce]

Another thread where Paradoxical tries to argue with Baby Jesus about how the plague shouldn't exist.

 

[bearpoker]

allegorical. Kansas isn't really one of those heavily populated areas and their death rate is just 136 per million versus New Jersey at 1797 per million. they are not a good comparison. They had 4 death yesterday compared to New Jersey at just 2. This tells me the virus petered out in New Jersey because there aren't enough hosts left.....they have all been taken care of by COVID with almost 16,000 dead compared to just 396 in small Kansas.

Do continue to parade your ignorance. This is about the effectiveness of mask wearing. Not about comparing infection levels between states.