• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Did the founders intend this to be a Christian nation?

Repubteen said:
In a sense this country is based on christian morals. All our laws are based on right and wrong, which is outlined in the christian religion. the country did not based on Islam where is you blow yourself up and kill people while doing it you'll be rewarded with 72 virgins.

All religions have a definition of what is right and what is wrong, even islam, and no where in the Koran does it say you should kill yourserlf, it's Osama Bin Idiot who has intereperted it that way.
 
noway!!! said:
All religions have a definition of what is right and what is wrong, even islam, and no where in the Koran does it say you should kill yourserlf, it's Osama Bin Idiot who has intereperted it that way.
As with most con artists, perhaps OBI subscribes to the P. T. Barnum school of thought. "There's a sucker born every minute, and two to take him."

Or else, the Josef Goebbels technique of preaching that if you tell lie, big enough, often enough, and long enough, many folks will eventually accept it as the truth.

Or, maybe he took a course or two in brainwashing at the now defunct Kremlin School of Mind Control.

Anyone who thinks this stuff doesn't work, needs only to take a look at the success the Bush-haters have enjoyed in their recruiting efforts.
 
Fantasea said:
As with most con artists, perhaps OBI subscribes to the P. T. Barnum school of thought. "There's a sucker born every minute, and two to take him."

Or else, the Josef Goebbels technique of preaching that if you tell lie, big enough, often enough, and long enough, many folks will eventually accept it as the truth.

Or, maybe he took a course or two in brainwashing at the now defunct Kremlin School of Mind Control.

Anyone who thinks this stuff doesn't work, needs only to take a look at the success the Bush-haters have enjoyed in their recruiting efforts.

Or he just watched The Apprentice.
 
Ezekial has nothing to do with the question Did the founders intend this to a christian nation. I have read some of the many writings left by the many of those who were at the constitutional convention and I have let their own writings answer this christian. I am not interesting in rewriting our history for the sake of making christians happy. We were given freedom of religion and in 1789, that was something unheard of accept in Rhode Island. I am proud to be a Christian but I will not lie and deceive because other christiians do it. and want me to. :mrgreen:
 
Fantasea said:
As with most con artists, perhaps OBI subscribes to the P. T. Barnum school of thought. "There's a sucker born every minute, and two to take him."

Or else, the Josef Goebbels technique of preaching that if you tell lie, big enough, often enough, and long enough, many folks will eventually accept it as the truth.

Or, maybe he took a course or two in brainwashing at the now defunct Kremlin School of Mind Control.

Anyone who thinks this stuff doesn't work, needs only to take a look at the success the Bush-haters have enjoyed in their recruiting efforts.
What is your point in reference to my post?
 
lamaror said:
Ezekial has nothing to do with the question Did the founders intend this to a christian nation. I have read some of the many writings left by the many of those who were at the constitutional convention and I have let their own writings answer this christian. I am not interesting in rewriting our history for the sake of making christians happy. We were given freedom of religion and in 1789, that was something unheard of accept in Rhode Island. I am proud to be a Christian but I will not lie and deceive because other christiians do it. and want me to. :mrgreen:

You should have read the passage of scripture before you judged the intent of my post... If you had done so you would know that I don't believe America to be a 'Christian' nation; in fact I believe quite the contrary. America's role in prophecy is not 'Christian'. If someone comes up with the magic name from Ezekiel 17 or Revelation for our country, I'll expand on why I believe what I believe. In fact, I would venture to guess that some Christians will tell me to put my tinfoil hat on and some of you will be spooked by my response. I consider America to be the ultimate conspiracy.

Who is America in Biblical prophecy? (Jeopardy music playing quietly in the background...)
 
Hi Rev,

I just read Ezekial 17 and admit that it is interesting. Yet I don't believe it has anything to do with America. It is to general and easily describes many moments in History, particularly,, ;) the Roman Empire whose symbol was the Eagle. ;)
 
noway!!! said:
What is your point in reference to my post?
I simply support your position, with a few additional references.

My belief is that the hierarchy of those with terrorist ambitions prey upon the ignorance of less sophisticated folks who are able to be swayed by a con artist with a glib tongue.

The typical follower of Islam is a peaceable fellow who wishes to live his life as best he can. However, perhaps bin Laden studied Thoreau.

AUTHOR: Henry David Thoreau (1817–62)
QUOTATION: The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things.


Deep within every man is the desire for adventure, for recognition, for performing a great deed. A suppressed John Wayne persona, if you will. The bin Laden types choose their 'volunteers', seek to inspire them to adventure, recognition, and that great deed for which they will be remembered. To give life to that suppressed John Wayne persona.

How do the bin Laden types do this? With words, well chosen, simple, words.

In the wake of the recent London bombings, I saw an interview with an eighteen year old British born youth of Pakistani extraction. He told of how, at the age of fifteen, he was approached by men who sought to recruit him "to do great deeds for Allah". He demurred.

Nevertheless, there seem to be at least four young men who did not demur. They had their adventure, their recognition, and performed a great deed for which they will be remembered as they departed this life in a blaze of what they considered glory.
 
JustineCredible said:
What is Myster Babylon?

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winnah!!! Now take out your dollar bill and notice there are three nations represented on the Great Seal; America, Egypt, and Israel (the Star of David is formed by the 13 stars above the Eagle's head) and then read Ezekiel 17 again. Egypt and Israel make a pact, just as Egypt and Israel made a pact in the 1970's. Babylon (America) is the string puller behind the pact.

More later, if anyone's interested.
 
Reverend Ed said:
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winnah!!! Now take out your dollar bill and notice there are three nations represented on the Great Seal; America, Egypt, and Israel (the Star of David is formed by the 13 stars above the Eagle's head) and then read Ezekiel 17 again. Egypt and Israel make a pact, just as Egypt and Israel made a pact in the 1970's. Babylon (America) is the string puller behind the pact.

More later, if anyone's interested.

I can see you watched "National Treasure" WAY too many times.
 
JustineCredible said:
I can see you watched "National Treasure" WAY too many times.

No, I just studied this subject for 20 years. I've read books that some people devoted to magick would love to own a copy of. Discovering the nature of the Biblical Babylon was what made me believe in God. My personal study of this subject (no one taught or preached it to me) made me turn away from magick and satanism.
 
Last edited:
Reverend Ed said:
No, I just studied this subject for 20 years. I've read books that some people devoted to magick would love to own a copy of. Discovering the nature of the Biblical Babylon was what made me believe in God. My personal study of this subject (no one taught or preached it to me) made me turn away from magick and satanism.


Silly boy, children shouldn't play with the black arts anyway!

It only leads to kids wearing Goth getups, listening to that Devil's Rock Music, and OMG OMG OMG.............sex..................

sorry, levity was in order here.
 
Reverend Ed said:
No, I just studied this subject for 20 years. I've read books that some people devoted to magick would love to own a copy of. Discovering the nature of the Biblical Babylon was what made me believe in God. My personal study of this subject (no one taught or preached it to me) made me turn away from magick and satanism.
Why doesn't it surprise me that someone into satanism and the like would eventually discover God? Have you heard about Oz yet? :2razz:
 
JustineCredible said:
Silly boy, children shouldn't play with the black arts anyway!

It only leads to kids wearing Goth getups, listening to that Devil's Rock Music, and OMG OMG OMG.............sex..................

sorry, levity was in order here.

Levity is fine... and I didn't "play" with the black arts, I was a master at them. I am not a child, and most people who knew me from my 20's know that I do not joke when it comes to prophecy or magick or Christianity. The evil part of Christianity, encompassed by the powerful that pull its strings, is much more evil than the most sincere avowed Satanist could ever hope to be.

The subject is no joking matter to me, and if my insights on the subject are unwanted, I'll just keep my thoughts to myself.

Why doesn't it surprise me that someone into satanism and the like would eventually discover God? Have you heard about Oz yet?

Sometimes we have to be burned by our beliefs before we discover the spark that caused the flame, or the means by which to put it out and begin again.
I haven't quoted scripture yet, attempting not to be preachy to the unbelievers out there.
 
Reverend Ed said:
Levity is fine... and I didn't "play" with the black arts, I was a master at them. I am not a child, and most people who knew me from my 20's know that I do not joke when it comes to prophecy or magick or Christianity. The evil part of Christianity, encompassed by the powerful that pull its strings, is much more evil than the most sincere avowed Satanist could ever hope to be.

The subject is no joking matter to me, and if my insights on the subject are unwanted, I'll just keep my thoughts to myself.

Ok, first off, I was only trying to add levity, which you grabbed, ran off with and replaced with your sinister reply.
Secondly, I was in no way "making fun of" your personal beliefs, whatever they may be. Again, I was only attempting at levity, which I can see was simply not taken well by you at all.
 
Ok, first off, I was only trying to add levity, which you grabbed, ran off with and replaced with your sinister reply.
Secondly, I was in no way "making fun of" your personal beliefs, whatever they may be. Again, I was only attempting at levity, which I can see was simply not taken well by you at all.[/

I know this is off topic, and I am not taking sides with wiccans, christians or who ever but, what is going on in the U.S. reminds me of the "who can we blame" mentality of the Dark Ages. Europe had rats that had fleas that carried the "black death". They did not know this so they found some people to blame it on, a group of people who made their decision to worship the Earth, Trees, Sky, Water, Moon, Sun and so on instead of "their" god. So they killed them. Today in America and other places people who believe in something different than the "norm" of society are being blamed for what is wrong in their society, non-christians, atheists, liberals and the like. And in some countries they are once again being killed for this. Never forget the past or we will be doomed to repeat it.

Hmm, why does this spell checker insist i capitalize christians but not capitalize "I"?
 
Last edited:
libertarian_knight said:
Me? I just wonder what happened to Jesus own writings. Surely an infuential Rabbi who was well versed in Jewish lore and faith, and "The" Son of God was not illiterate. With this, bear in mind that faith in the men holding positions of power have told you about God, is not the same as faith in God.
Get yourself what is called a red letter Bible. The words in red are the actual words of Jesus. Very different from the rest of the Bible. You're the only other self proffessed libertarian on this site. Welcome, I could use the help. Ever hear of radio talk show Neil Boortz?
 
Why are we so often pontificating on what some old men thought 200 years ago, and why should we hold their thoughts to be so highly regarded today?:doh
 
Deegan said:
Why are we so often pontificating on what some old men thought 200 years ago, and why should we hold their thoughts to be so highly regarded today?:doh

Dude, are you kidding? Don't you know that the founding fathers were infallible? If they had been able to make mistakes or not consider something the Constitution would be full of ammendments!
 
Deegan said:
Why are we so often pontificating on what some old men thought 200 years ago, and why should we hold their thoughts to be so highly regarded today?:doh

It's fairly easy to get a somewhat clear picture of what our founding fathers were thinking by comparing their other writings, understanding the issues of their day as well as traditions and customs.
No, they weren't infalible as Sebastian so sarcastically quipped, but they were definitely visionary in their struggle to make this country something which the world had never seen before. They wanted this country to be an example as well as an experiment.
What Sebastian lacks is a certain belief in patriotism. I believe in the spirit of what our founding fathers were trying to accomplish. I'm not a blind follower of our supposedly elected and non-elected leaders. I'm no Nationalist.
I believe in freedom of expression including but in no way limited to; speach, visual expressions, and thought.
I personally believe our founding fathers not only meant for this country to have the "Freedom OF" as well as the "Freedom FROM" religion. The individual free will to choose to follow or NOT follow any specific religion.
I do NOT believe this country was EVER intended to be a "Christian" nation, but a nation where all forms of ALL religious beliefs were to be respected, but NEVER singled out as right or wrong, let alone meant to be a basis for our national system of laws.
 
Reverend Ed said:
You should have read the passage of scripture before you judged the intent of my post... If you had done so you would know that I don't believe America to be a 'Christian' nation; in fact I believe quite the contrary. America's role in prophecy is not 'Christian'. If someone comes up with the magic name from Ezekiel 17 or Revelation for our country, I'll expand on why I believe what I believe. In fact, I would venture to guess that some Christians will tell me to put my tinfoil hat on and some of you will be spooked by my response. I consider America to be the ultimate conspiracy.

Who is America in Biblical prophecy? (Jeopardy music playing quietly in the background...)
I don't often engage in religious discussions, and I'm sure you and I disagree about a lot of christian doctrine, but in this matter you are right...
 
JustineCredible said:
What Sebastian lacks is a certain belief in patriotism. I believe in the spirit of what our founding fathers were trying to accomplish.

You think you are able to judge my stance on patriotism based on two sentences of sarcasm? You presume far too much. I do believe that there is a great deal of wisdom in the philosophies that the founding fathers used (not that they were the creators of these philosophies mind you). I do believe that they had a great deal of foresigh and were doing their best to shape our government as well as they could. However, to enshrine them the way that we do... to make them into demi-gods is what I am sick of. To suggest that they were more profound or had a better grasp of what America is and should be than anyone living in America today is ridiculous. The Consititution was ammended because it had screw ups. It is our place to continue to carry it into the next century, rather then trying to figure out what it was they had in mind when they wrote it, why don't we take what we, as a country, believe America ought to be in the future, and work from there. If that is a "lack of belief in patriotism" then so be it. But I would much rather spend my time moving forward in a way that is fitting to the times than attempt to figure out what men who have been dead for two hundred years intended for the country to be after they were dead.
 
sebastiansdreams said:
You think you are able to judge my stance on patriotism based on two sentences of sarcasm? You presume far too much. I do believe that there is a great deal of wisdom in the philosophies that the founding fathers used (not that they were the creators of these philosophies mind you). I do believe that they had a great deal of foresigh and were doing their best to shape our government as well as they could. However, to enshrine them the way that we do... to make them into demi-gods is what I am sick of. To suggest that they were more profound or had a better grasp of what America is and should be than anyone living in America today is ridiculous. The Consititution was ammended because it had screw ups. It is our place to continue to carry it into the next century, rather then trying to figure out what it was they had in mind when they wrote it, why don't we take what we, as a country, believe America ought to be in the future, and work from there. If that is a "lack of belief in patriotism" then so be it. But I would much rather spend my time moving forward in a way that is fitting to the times than attempt to figure out what men who have been dead for two hundred years intended for the country to be after they were dead.

Your assumption that I in anyway "enshrine" our founding fathers as "demi-gods" is equally presumptive of you.

I do realize they were mere human beings. But to say that the original context of the Costitution was a "screw up" is simply crass. They knew full well they had left out quite a bit. That is WHY they made sure that adding Amendments was possible! Duh!
They knew that our nation would evolve as we grew bigger and had influences of which they couldn't even begin to imagine.
It was this bit of forethought on their part which makes our form of government quite unique.
You say you would rather custome fit the Constitution so fit today's here and now, but you have absolutely Zero forethought for the generations to come!
That's what I find inexcusable behavior.
The entire spirit of the Constitution allows for change and the realization that change is inevidable. If we were to pigeon hole our laws by making sure that future generation have MORE work to UNDO the crap we do just to fit our vision of the "Here and now" we destroy the spirit of our Constitution.
 
Back
Top Bottom