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Did George HW Bush get a bum deal?

Buckeyes85

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He lost to Clinton in 92' largely predicated upon the downturn of the economy.
I will say this about his presidency as well as any after: Presidents get too much credit when the economy is great under their watch, and too much blame when it goes south. I think he was somewhat a victim of the latter.

He was also criticized for the fact our military overwhelmed Sadaam's forces in Kuwait, chased them back into Iraq but did not drive all the way to Baghdad and oust Hussein. That was not our mission.

Lastly, I think even the right was way too tough on him with the "no new taxes" pledge which he later reneged on. Bills gotta' be paid.

We may have had many better presidents, but we certainly have had a lot worse. Incredibly worse.
 

Jacksprat

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He lost to Clinton in 92' largely predicated upon the downturn of the economy.
I will say this about his presidency as well as any after: Presidents get too much credit when the economy is great under their watch, and too much blame when it goes south. I think he was somewhat a victim of the latter.

He was also criticized for the fact our military overwhelmed Sadaam's forces in Kuwait, chased them back into Iraq but did not drive all the way to Baghdad and oust Hussein. That was not our mission.

Lastly, I think even the right was way too tough on him with the "no new taxes" pledge which he later reneged on. Bills gotta' be paid.

We may have had many better presidents, but we certainly have had a lot worse. Incredibly worse.
Thank God for Bill Clinton. HW Bush was worthless.
 

Buckeyes85

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Thank God for Bill Clinton. HW Bush was worthless.
C'mon now- I tried to offer a rational analysis. You have to add more than that.
Plus, he did help put the nail in the coffin of the USSR. Have to give him some credit for that.
 

Crovax

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Thank God for Bill Clinton. HW Bush was worthless.

Yes Bill Clinton signed the 1994 crime bill... oh wait liberals hate that now, we'll he signed DOMA, wait liberals don't like that one either, what about don't ask don't tell, that one is right out as well.
 

Craig234

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No. George Bush was primarily a 'scumbag' president. He was a 'party hack' politician, very willing to put 'party above country'. During Watergate when no Republican wanted to be the party chair having to defend Nixon, Bush did. When in the 1970's Congress was holding hearings of the CIA's terrible history learning its wrongs, and the CIA Director was telling them the truth and Ford wanted to replace him as CIA Director with someone who would block Congress from the truth, he picked George W. Bush, who did.

That was the context of who Bush was when Reagan went looking for a VP, and found the 'totally loyal' Bush, and let's see what happened - Iran-Contra, with Bush quite involved and helping cover it up, and then pardoning the top officials involved when he became president.

It's not to say he was 'all bad', but he was very bad. When he ran against Reagan for president, he rightly called Reagan's policies "Voodoo Economics" - but then happily served Reagan and adopted them. He 'did the right thing' to break his 'read my lips, no new taxes' pledge - but he'd made the pledge. There are a lot of wrongs by Bush to list why he was terrible. He only looked better in hindsight seeing who followed him - 43 and trump.

There is an argument that he was one of many presidents wrongly blamed for economic issues that weren't their fault, but he deserved it for other reasons. We haven't even gotten to things like his participation in things like the Carlyle Group or his support of figures such as Dick Cheney and Karl Rove. Guess who put Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court?
 

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Yes Bill Clinton signed the 1994 crime bill... oh wait liberals hate that now, we'll he signed DOMA, wait liberals don't like that one either, what about don't ask don't tell, that one is right out as well.
Clinton was a very conservative, pro-corporate Dem. I DemExited because the Dem Party is dominated by people like Clinton now.
 

Jacksprat

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He was also criticized for the fact our military overwhelmed Sadaam's forces in Kuwait, chased them back into Iraq but did not drive all the way to Baghdad and oust Hussein. That was not our mission.
Kuwait and Iraq had a dispute over rights to a shared oil well. I see no US interest there.
 

mrjurrs

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He lost to Clinton in 92' largely predicated upon the downturn of the economy.
I will say this about his presidency as well as any after: Presidents get too much credit when the economy is great under their watch, and too much blame when it goes south. I think he was somewhat a victim of the latter.

He was also criticized for the fact our military overwhelmed Sadaam's forces in Kuwait, chased them back into Iraq but did not drive all the way to Baghdad and oust Hussein. That was not our mission.

Lastly, I think even the right was way too tough on him with the "no new taxes" pledge which he later reneged on. Bills gotta' be paid.

We may have had many better presidents, but we certainly have had a lot worse. Incredibly worse.
HW Bush was an integral part of what causes a portion of our undocumented immigrants today. In addition to being unbelievably anti American.

"As CIA director in the mid-1970s and as Ronald Reagan’s vice president, Bush helped forge a world of strongmen, wars, cartels, and refugees that continues today. In particular, he was deeply involved in the events that became known as the Iran-Contra scandal, a series of illegal operations that began with a secret effort to arm Contra fighters in Nicaragua in the hopes of toppling the leftist Sandinista government; this effort became connected to drug trafficking, trading weapons for hostages with Iran, and banking scandals."
 

Craig234

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Plus, he did help put the nail in the coffin of the USSR. Have to give him some credit for that.

No, you don't, because no, he didn't. Informed people say the US's heavy-handed military spending *slowed* the fall of the Soviets, strengthening the Soviets' hardliners.
 

Ikari

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He lost to Clinton in 92' largely predicated upon the downturn of the economy.
I will say this about his presidency as well as any after: Presidents get too much credit when the economy is great under their watch, and too much blame when it goes south. I think he was somewhat a victim of the latter.

He was also criticized for the fact our military overwhelmed Sadaam's forces in Kuwait, chased them back into Iraq but did not drive all the way to Baghdad and oust Hussein. That was not our mission.

Lastly, I think even the right was way too tough on him with the "no new taxes" pledge which he later reneged on. Bills gotta' be paid.

We may have had many better presidents, but we certainly have had a lot worse. Incredibly worse.
I think he was a decent President. I would have taken him over Clinton. The "read my lips" thing really stuck, but that was back when politicians were kind of held to what they say.
 

vegas giants

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He lost to Clinton in 92' largely predicated upon the downturn of the economy.
I will say this about his presidency as well as any after: Presidents get too much credit when the economy is great under their watch, and too much blame when it goes south. I think he was somewhat a victim of the latter.

He was also criticized for the fact our military overwhelmed Sadaam's forces in Kuwait, chased them back into Iraq but did not drive all the way to Baghdad and oust Hussein. That was not our mission.

Lastly, I think even the right was way too tough on him with the "no new taxes" pledge which he later reneged on. Bills gotta' be paid.

We may have had many better presidents, but we certainly have had a lot worse. Incredibly worse.
Certainly better than his idiot son
 

Craig234

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Mr. Clinton was an opponent of liberalism and created centrism.
He didn't invent it, but he practiced an extreme form of it where he greatly embraced 'corruption' and largely abandoned traditional Democratic values, but was 'not as bad as Republicans' in some things.
 

Jacksprat

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He didn't invent it, but he practiced an extreme form of it where he greatly embraced 'corruption' and largely abandoned traditional Democratic values, but was 'not as bad as Republicans' in some things.
No prior US president advocated centrism, which is what I meant by "invent." He attacked the foundations of liberalism. This lead to Obama who never referred to himself as a liberal.
 

Craig234

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I think he was a decent President. I would have taken him over Clinton. The "read my lips" thing really stuck, but that was back when politicians were kind of held to what they say.
That's not really correct. It was selective. Bush was because 'no new taxes' was a Republican obsession - why he made the pledge in the first place - while other lies, not so much, like Reagan saying he was anti-debt and wouldn't negotiate with terrorists, while he tripled the national debt as the most pro-debt president to that point, and had Iran-Contra, and the country did not hold him accountable. He even raised taxes some, after he'd cut them.
 

Fearandloathing

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He lost to Clinton in 92' largely predicated upon the downturn of the economy.
I will say this about his presidency as well as any after: Presidents get too much credit when the economy is great under their watch, and too much blame when it goes south. I think he was somewhat a victim of the latter.

He was also criticized for the fact our military overwhelmed Sadaam's forces in Kuwait, chased them back into Iraq but did not drive all the way to Baghdad and oust Hussein. That was not our mission.

Lastly, I think even the right was way too tough on him with the "no new taxes" pledge which he later reneged on. Bills gotta' be paid.

We may have had many better presidents, but we certainly have had a lot worse. Incredibly worse.


All good observations. It is true that the economy plays heavily into politics, but thems the oysters.

From my perspective it seemed like the US had grown weary of Republican anything.

As I recall 'renewal" was an 'in' word along with 'recovery' (alcoholics, drugs, mental issues); the era seemed to have a touch of the sixties (especially where I traveled in the US) and I think Clinton was a fit for the times.

I know trade relations were great. For once the 'war in the woods' found a truce with Canadian Lumber suppliers (it is now in the courts and has been since Nixon!)

"Dubya was another story. He'd never see a second term if not for the 911 attack. He ranked right down there with Ford, Carter
 

Craig234

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No prior US president advocated centrism, which is what I meant by "invent." He attacked the foundations of liberalism. This lead to Obama who never referred to himself as a liberal.
Not correct. Whatever the history of the word "centrist" or shifting definition, the US had long had the issue of more pro-business Democrats versus more pro-citizen Democrats. FDR had his choice for VP, Henry Wallace, forcibly replaced by party leaders with the pro-business Truman against his will (after FDR had threatened not to run when they tried before). As I said, Clinton took it to a new level, after Democrats lost five of six elections, two by 49 states.
 

Jacksprat

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Not correct. Whatever the history of the word "centrist" or shifting definition, the US had long had the issue of more pro-business Democrats versus more pro-citizen Democrats. FDR had his choice for VP, Henry Wallace, forcibly replaced by party leaders with the pro-business Truman against his will (after FDR had threatened not to run when they tried before). As I said, Clinton took it to a new level, after Democrats lost five of six elections, two by 49 states.
What President before Clinton use the term "centrism?"
 

Craig234

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Dubya was another story. He'd never see a second term if not for the 911 attack. He ranked right down there with Ford, Carter

He was the worst president in history before trump, uniquely unqualified and unsuited. He was wrongly awarded the election Gore won, and you're right his ratings were terrible and clearly on track to not be re-elected until 9/11 saved him. Thanks bin Laden. He wasn't 'with' Ford and Carter, he was worse, and Carter was much better than either, likely the best president from him until Biden.
 

jnug

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He lost to Clinton in 92' largely predicated upon the downturn of the economy.
I will say this about his presidency as well as any after: Presidents get too much credit when the economy is great under their watch, and too much blame when it goes south. I think he was somewhat a victim of the latter.

He was also criticized for the fact our military overwhelmed Sadaam's forces in Kuwait, chased them back into Iraq but did not drive all the way to Baghdad and oust Hussein. That was not our mission.

Lastly, I think even the right was way too tough on him with the "no new taxes" pledge which he later reneged on. Bills gotta' be paid.

We may have had many better presidents, but we certainly have had a lot worse. Incredibly worse.
Going back on "No new taxes" is what got him. He made that the pillar of his campaign for President. That was the cornerstone at the bottom of the stack of blocks and when he pulled it out of the bottom the whole thing came crashing down. It was a risky move as going into that election campaign, it was generally accepted that Reagan had striped too much revenue from the Treasury and stuff had stopped working. Whoever won was likely to have to raise taxes regardless of which side of the aisle produced him.

I would agree that there were many worse Presidents considering his obvious negatives going in. First and foremost of those, he was a Republican. When you look at just the sheer number of Republicans indicted and then indicted and convicted of crimes from Nixon till now, the pool of administration officials any Republican has to choose from is pretty raunchy.
 

Craig234

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What President before Clinton use the term "centrism?"
Can't you read? What did I just say about the term? They were substantive 'centrists' whatever the language used. Hence my saying "Whatever the history of the word "centrist"".

But here's Wikipedia re-iterating my point - including the word "center" used by Arthur Schlesinger for that pro-business faction by Truman's presidency.

"After World War II, centrism was a dominant political philosophy in the United States but lacked its own party in the traditionally two-party country. For example, historian Arthur Schlesinger Jr., characterized political moderation as a vigorous “Third Force” in his 1949 book, The Vital Center... Harry Truman, who served as U.S. president from 1945 until 1953, is regarded as a centrist Democrat, while Dwight Eisenhower, who was the president from 1953 to 1961, is regarded as a centrist Republican."
 

Mycroft

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He lost to Clinton in 92' largely predicated upon the downturn of the economy.
I will say this about his presidency as well as any after: Presidents get too much credit when the economy is great under their watch, and too much blame when it goes south. I think he was somewhat a victim of the latter.

He was also criticized for the fact our military overwhelmed Sadaam's forces in Kuwait, chased them back into Iraq but did not drive all the way to Baghdad and oust Hussein. That was not our mission.

Lastly, I think even the right was way too tough on him with the "no new taxes" pledge which he later reneged on. Bills gotta' be paid.

We may have had many better presidents, but we certainly have had a lot worse. Incredibly worse.
The only think President George H.W. Bush did wrong was, like Reagan before him, to believe the Democrats when they told him they would cut spending if he went along with raising taxes. He believed them...they stabbed him in the back...and they then used those tax increases against him causing him to lose to Clinton.

 

Gateman_Wen

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He lost to Clinton in 92' largely predicated upon the downturn of the economy.
I will say this about his presidency as well as any after: Presidents get too much credit when the economy is great under their watch, and too much blame when it goes south. I think he was somewhat a victim of the latter.

He was also criticized for the fact our military overwhelmed Sadaam's forces in Kuwait, chased them back into Iraq but did not drive all the way to Baghdad and oust Hussein. That was not our mission.

Lastly, I think even the right was way too tough on him with the "no new taxes" pledge which he later reneged on. Bills gotta' be paid.

We may have had many better presidents, but we certainly have had a lot worse. Incredibly worse.
Every republican administration in the last half century or more has ended in recession.
 
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