Did CIA Murder JFK?

[Cordelier]

Has the name of the CIA section chief in Dallas ever been revealed?

Full disclosure: I know the name and knew the man, but I've never been able to find any public information about him.

I don't know why you'd figure there'd be a CIA Station in Dallas. What activities do you figure they'd be involved in?

 

[jpevans]

But there's no reason whatsoever to suggest that there was anyone else in the building. No employee reported any mysterious stranger, and there were guys working with Oswald on the 6th floor right up until when they left for lunch.

& nobody leaked the SCOTUS decision on Roe v Wade. & Mueller couldn't find any evidence of collusion with Moscow.
How's 'bout Patsy was in the break room, not out of breath, if you believe every thing you read.

 

[Cordelier]

& nobody leaked the SCOTUS decision on Roe v Wade. & Mueller couldn't find any evidence of collusion with Moscow.
How's 'bout Patsy was in the break room, not out of breath, if you believe every thing you read.

Oswald getting to the breakroom without being out of breath is a lot simpler solution than conjuring up some mystery shooter out of thin air.

 

[jpevans]

Oswald getting to the breakroom without being out of breath is a lot simpler solution than conjuring up some mystery shooter out of thin air.

You just said that the other employees were gone to lunch. Are you in on the coverup, or just have blind faith in the Warren Report?

 

[Cordelier]

You just said that the other employees were gone to lunch. Are you in on the coverup, or just have blind faith in the Warren Report?

I said the employees who were working with Oswald on the 6th floor left there to go to lunch - if memory serves, two of them had their lunch on the 5th floor to watch the motorcade go by. They reported hearing the shots above them and heard the casings hitting the floor.

At no point, though, no employee in the building reported sighting anyone who didn't belong there.

 

[Cordelier]

Here is the Warren Commission testimony of Bonnie Ray Williams:

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/pdf/WH3_Williams.pdf

He was the last TBSD employee who reported being on the 6th floor (other than Oswald) prior to the shooting. He ate his lunch there and then went down to the 5th floor.

 

[Fishking]

I love conspiracy theories, no matter how plausible, implausible, or ridiculous they are. I'll add two details to this one that I like:

1. The Church Committee, which involved investigating our intelligence agencies compromising our media, hadn't happened yet so the push to bring the term "conspiracy theory" by the NYT easily could be seen as a psy op.

2. JFK's own words talking about secret actors behind the scenes ("...it is no longer far away and foreign, but close at hand and local").

 

[jpevans]

Here is the Warren Commission testimony of Bonnie Ray Williams:

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/pdf/WH3_Williams.pdf

He was the last TBSD employee who reported being on the 6th floor (other than Oswald) prior to the shooting. He ate his lunch there and then went down to the 5th floor.

Good work, an eye witness is "Not really sure" that he saw Oswald on 6. How many eye witnesses have been "positive" & wrong?

 

[Cordelier]

Good work, an eye witness is "Not really sure" that he saw Oswald on 6. How many eye witnesses have been "positive" & wrong?

What do you want, JP? Someone to testify they were standing behind Oswald when he shot the President?

It's pretty obvious that the shots came from the 6th floor of the TSBD and that Oswald was the only known person who had access there at the time of the shooting. If he had been brought to trial, it would have been an open-and-shut case. Phantom mystery shooters and nebulous plots without any connection to the events in question don't constitute reasonable doubt.

 

[watsup]

What do you want, JP? Someone to testify they were standing behind Oswald when he shot the President?

It's pretty obvious that the shots came from the 6th floor of the TSBD and that Oswald was the only known person who had access there at the time of the shooting. If he had been brought to trial, it would have been an open-and-shut case. Phantom mystery shooters and nebulous plots without any connection to the events in question don't constitute reasonable doubt.

And that’s the point, isn’t it? There was no trial of Lee Harvey Oswald. Instead, a shadowy figure with possible ties to the Mafia had immediate access to Oswald and shot and killed him before he could be properly interrogated. Ruby was not a particular fan of JFK, so what was the motive to do so? You can’t make this stuff up.

 

[Cordelier]

And that’s the point, isn’t it? There was no trial of Lee Harvey Oswald. Instead, a shadowy figure with possible ties to the Mafia had immediate access to Oswald and shot and killed him before he could be properly interrogated. Ruby was not a particular fan of JFK, so what was the motive to do so? You can’t make this stuff up.

It's true that wasn't very helpful... but I don't think it would have been all that different if there had been no Jack Ruby. Oswald would have just ended up as another James Earl Ray or Sirhan Sirhan - rotting away in a jail cell protesting his innocence and weaving tales of vast conspiracies.

 

[Cordelier]

And that’s the point, isn’t it? There was no trial of Lee Harvey Oswald. Instead, a shadowy figure with possible ties to the Mafia had immediate access to Oswald and shot and killed him before he could be properly interrogated. Ruby was not a particular fan of JFK, so what was the motive to do so? You can’t make this stuff up.

Ruby was a violently impulsive person. There is eyewitness testimony and time stamps showing him at the Western Union across the street long after Oswald was supposed to have been transferred. If he went there with intent to kill Oswald, don't you think he would have at least been there on time?

 

[jpevans]

Ruby was a violently impulsive person. There is eyewitness testimony and time stamps showing him at the Western Union across the street long after Oswald was supposed to have been transferred. If he went there with intent to kill Oswald, don't you think he would have at least been there on time?

Or why did the wait until Ruby was in position before bringing Oswald down.

 

[jpevans]

It's true that wasn't very helpful... but I don't think it would have been all that different if there had been no Jack Ruby. Oswald would have just ended up as another James Earl Ray or Sirhan Sirhan - rotting away in a jail cell protesting his innocence and weaving tales of vast conspiracies.

There are questions whether Ray might be a patsy.
Sirhan worked for Micky Cohen, an underling of Carlos Marcelo.
But let’s not go there.

 

[Cordelier]

Or why did the wait until Ruby was in position before bringing Oswald down.

You can throw out all kinds of questions, but unless you can pin down how it all played out in Dealey Plaza it's all just supposition, isn't it?

 

[sanman]

Ruby was a violently impulsive person. There is eyewitness testimony and time stamps showing him at the Western Union across the street long after Oswald was supposed to have been transferred. If he went there with intent to kill Oswald, don't you think he would have at least been there on time?

Sounds like a contrived excuse, in order to create a neat alibi for premeditated assassination.

Oh, and look -- JFK's brother RFK also conveniently gets assassinated -- presumably by another conveniently "violent impulsive person" -- which conveniently eliminates him as a political successor to JFK.
Funny how all these conveniently violent impulsive people keep showing up at convenient moments to kill the inconvenient people. And the Deep State conveniently keeps getting richer and fatter, and more powerful.
And the disclosure of the full documents conveniently continues to be withheld from the public, well after the date full disclosure was promised.

 

[jpevans]

You can throw out all kinds of questions, but unless you can pin down how it all played out in Dealey Plaza it's all just supposition, isn't it?

That's right, it's a Conspiracy Theory, while your beloved Warren report is carved in stone. Jim Garrison & the House Committee on Assassinations are crackpots.

 

[Cordelier]

That's right, it's a Conspiracy Theory, while your beloved Warren report is carved in stone. Jim Garrison & the House Committee on Assassinations are crackpots.

Jim Garrison was a crackpot. House Committee on Assassinations was just a waste of time and money.

 

[jpevans]

Jim Garrison was a crackpot. House Committee on Assassinations was just a waste of time and money.

That is a paraphrase of the HCOA's verdict on the Warren Report.
I surely don't know if Oswald acted alone, but there are enough coincidences to question the Facts as put forward in the WR by the Government. Maybe they should un redact the full report?

 

[Cordelier]

That is a paraphrase of the HCOA's verdict on the Warren Report.
I surely don't know if Oswald acted alone, but there are enough coincidences to question the Facts as put forward in the WR by the Government. Maybe they should un redact the full report?

I'm not aware of any redactions in the Warren Commission Report.

The way I figure it, the Warren Commission Report is the trial that Oswald never got, and it should be seen in that light. Are there still unanswered questions? Sure, but I don't think they amount to anywhere close to being reasonable doubt about his guilt, especially given all of the evidence in Dealey Plaza and Oswald's subsequent actions in leaving the scene, killing Officer Tippett and going for his gun in the theater. I mean sure, you can point out that the Mafia wanted him dead or whatever, but until you can draw a clear link to what happened on the ground, it's all just talk. If the defense at Oswald's trial had tried to bring up Marcello and all the rest at trial, it would have gone over like a lead balloon. "Objection - relevance, your honor?". You saw that with the whole Garrison effort... a bunch of bizarre conspiracy theories without any definite connection to the facts on the ground does not a prosecution make.

 

[American]

And the idiots of MAGA belive this crap like they do all bullshit.

I'll be you believe the Warren Commission.

 

[jpevans]

I'm not aware of any redactions in the Warren Commission Report.

The way I figure it, the Warren Commission Report is the trial that Oswald never got, and it should be seen in that light. Are there still unanswered questions? Sure, but I don't think they amount to anywhere close to being reasonable doubt about his guilt, especially given all of the evidence in Dealey Plaza and Oswald's subsequent actions in leaving the scene, killing Officer Tippett and going for his gun in the theater. I mean sure, you can point out that the Mafia wanted him dead or whatever, but until you can draw a clear link to what happened on the ground, it's all just talk. If the defense at Oswald's trial had tried to bring up Marcello and all the rest at trial, it would have gone over like a lead balloon. "Objection - relevance, your honor?". You saw that with the whole Garrison effort... a bunch of bizarre conspiracy theories without any definite connection to the facts on the ground does not a prosecution make.

The is still a large amount of evidence that is still under lock. It was supposed to be released after 50 years, some heavily redacted evidence was recently released.
It’s been suggested that Tibbits was on a mission to smoke the patsy. When that didn’t work, Ruby was called up. There was a blue line drawn around having a trial. Someone didn’t want a live assassin, for some reason, or so it seems. There was no defense to bring up anything. There was a government appointed commission charged with proving that a lone gunman killed the President & no government personnel had any guilt for mistakes or criminal collusion.
You seem to have a high faith in judges, but there was a number of threads running through the Garrison prosecution. Also it’s some troubling that his witnesses kept turning up dead. Coincidence? Daivid Ferry was Oswald’s leader in a Air youth group, also Marcelo’s private pilot who had flown a group to Texas in the days before Kennedy was killed. He feared for his life, yet was alleged to commit suicide before his testimony on that flight.
See you tomorrow…

 

[Cordelier]

The is still a large amount of evidence that is still under lock. It was supposed to be released after 50 years, some heavily redacted evidence was recently released.
It’s been suggested that Tibbits was on a mission to smoke the patsy. When that didn’t work, Ruby was called up. There was a blue line drawn around having a trial. Someone didn’t want a live assassin, for some reason, or so it seems. There was no defense to bring up anything. There was a government appointed commission charged with proving that a lone gunman killed the President & no government personnel had any guilt for mistakes or criminal collusion.
You seem to have a high faith in judges, but there was a number of threads running through the Garrison prosecution. Also it’s some troubling that his witnesses kept turning up dead. Coincidence? Daivid Ferry was Oswald’s leader in a Air youth group, also Marcelo’s private pilot who had flown a group to Texas in the days before Kennedy was killed. He feared for his life, yet was alleged to commit suicide before his testimony on that flight.
See you tomorrow…

Is there really any reason to disparage Officer Tippit? The man died in the line of duty, had an 11 year career with the Dallas Police Department in which he was highly decorated and before that he received a Bronze Star as a paratrooper in World War II. If anyone is going to drag his name through the mud, don't you think they'd better have iron-clad evidence before they do so?

 

[jpevans]

Is there really any reason to disparage Officer Tippit? The man died in the line of duty, had an 11 year career with the Dallas Police Department in which he was highly decorated and before that he received a Bronze Star as a paratrooper in World War II. If anyone is going to drag his name through the mud, don't you think they'd better have iron-clad evidence before they do so?

Why, don't you have a compulsion to disparage DA Garrison & the HCOA.
Garrison went on to be win election as a judge twice after beating a bribery charge aimed at discrediting him, some years later the witness against him admitted to making up the story. Served during WWII for many bombing missions.
Should a member of the Police Force responsible for Oswald's assassination be free of a look? Why didn't the patsy bring his revolver to work, if he was intent on killing JFK? Why go to his rented room to retrieve it, after the assassination?
p.s. I think Garrison missed the connection to Marcello, who would be Ferrie his pilot.

 

[Cordelier]

Why, don't you have a compulsion to disparage DA Garrison & the HCOA.
Garrison went on to be win election as a judge twice after beating a bribery charge aimed at discrediting him, some years later the witness against him admitted to making up the story. Served during WWII for many bombing missions.
Should a member of the Police Force responsible for Oswald's assassination be free of a look? Why didn't the patsy bring his revolver to work, if he was intent on killing JFK? Why go to his rented room to retrieve it, after the assassination?
p.s. I think Garrison missed the connection to Marcello, who would be Ferrie his pilot.

Garrison was never a judge - he was a Parish DA. I disparage him because he manufactured a case out of whole cloth against a man pretty much on zero evidence. To me, that's abuse of power designed to get his name in the papers.