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Did CIA Murder JFK?

Cordelier said:
They seem pretty conclusive to me. 1.4° of deflection is just about perfect. To cut it any finer, Oswald would have needed a laser. From where he was perched, the limo was moving in an almost perfectly straight line away from him at the time of the headshot. The only other locations in Dealey Plaza that I can see where this would have applied were the roof of the Dal-Tex Building, above and behind Oswald's perch, or on top of the Overpass in front of the Limo, about where the Railroad Repair Crew was watching the motorcade go by. I'm pretty sure none of them noticed a shooter in their midst.
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I suppose we will never know for sure.
 
ColdHardTruth said:
I suppose we will never know for sure.
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I'm only going by what I do know... like the coordinates of where Kennedy was shot, the heading of the limo at that point, and where Oswald's sniper's nest was located.... and they line up to give a 1.4° deflection - pretty much a straight-line shot.
 
Cordelier said:
I'm only going by what I do know... like the coordinates of where Kennedy was shot, the heading of the limo at that point, and where Oswald's sniper's nest was located.... and they line up to give a 1.4° deflection - pretty much a straight-line shot.
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I guess that enough to rule out any conspiracy then.
 
jpevans said:
I guess that enough to rule out any conspiracy then.
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I'm not saying that - all I'm saying is that if there was a conspiracy, then Lee Harvey Oswald was an active participant in it. I can't see any plausible scenario where he wasn't the shooter, given how precisely the angles line up. Nor do I see any plausible evidence that he received help from any outside source. The Warren Commission examined his movements in precise detail leading up to and after the shooting.

I just don't see where a conspiracy comes into play anywhere along the line. If he had co-conspirators, what was the nature of the assistance they furnished him with? They sure weren't plying him with cash. If they were supplying him with equipment, they were also pretty chintzy. So if he was the shooter, what concrete role did the unnamed conspirator(s) play?
 
Cordelier said:
I'm not saying that - all I'm saying is that if there was a conspiracy, then Lee Harvey Oswald was an active participant in it. I can't see any plausible scenario where he wasn't the shooter, given how precisely the angles line up. Nor do I see any plausible evidence that he received help from any outside source. The Warren Commission examined his movements in precise detail leading up to and after the shooting.

I just don't see where a conspiracy comes into play anywhere along the line. If he had co-conspirators, what was the nature of the assistance they furnished him with? They sure weren't plying him with cash. If they were supplying him with equipment, they were also pretty chintzy. So if he was the shooter, what concrete role did the unnamed conspirator(s) play?
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How did Oswald know to apply at the Schoolbook Depository a month before Kennedy was shot & why was the original route of the motorcade changed to go on that side of Dealey Plaza when slated to go down the other side of Dealey?
Why did the House Select Committee on Assassinations conclude their was a conspiracy & in a dissent opinion suggest the Mafia was involved? Why did Marcello associate Ruby murder the suspect? Why do you assume that Parkland Dr's were inexperienced in gunshot wounds, so much so that they completely misremembered what they had observed & why was it important to remove them from the case almost immediately? Lotta questions... why was Zapruder's film not confiscated when others at the scene were?
 
jpevans said:
How did Oswald know to apply at the Schoolbook Depository a month before Kennedy was shot & why was the original route of the motorcade changed to go on that side of Dealey Plaza when slated to go down the other side of Dealey?
Why did the House Select Committee on Assassinations conclude their was a conspiracy & in a dissent opinion suggest the Mafia was involved? Why did Marcello associate Ruby murder the suspect? Why do you assume that Parkland Dr's were inexperienced in gunshot wounds, so much so that they completely misremembered what they had observed & why was it important to remove them from the case almost immediately? Lotta questions... why was Zapruder's film not confiscated when others at the scene were?
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As I recall, Ruth Paine was letting a room to Marina Oswald, so she knew Lee was looking for work...and she heard from her neighbor Wesley Buell Frazier (who worked at the TSBD) that they were looking for a warehouse clerk, so she suggested to Lee that he apply, and he got the job.

I don't recall why the route was changed, but the Warren Commission interviewed pretty much all of the Security Detail, so I imagine it must have come up then.

My impression of the House Select Committee on Assassinations is that it was pretty much a joke. There was no need to create it, and by the end of it's existence it was looking for reasons not to have it's funding cut off, and so it started coming up with off-the-wall conspiracy theories.
 
Cordelier said:
As I recall, Ruth Paine was letting a room to Marina Oswald, so she knew Lee was looking for work...and she heard from her neighbor Wesley Buell Frazier (who worked at the TSBD) that they were looking for a warehouse clerk, so she suggested to Lee that he apply, and he got the job.

I don't recall why the route was changed, but the Warren Commission interviewed pretty much all of the Security Detail, so I imagine it must have come up then.

My impression of the House Select Committee on Assassinations is that it was pretty much a joke. There was no need to create it, and by the end of it's existence it was looking for reasons not to have it's funding cut off, and so it started coming up with off-the-wall conspiracy theories.
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Ruth Paine was introduced to the Oswald's by a known CIA informant George De Mohrenschildt. Which proves nothing in & of itself, but raises more questions.
I don't believe House committees have budget restraints, time restraints, yes.
 
Cordelier said:
That's not the way investigations are supposed to work. You start at the scene of the crime and then you follow the evidence where it leads. You don't start off with a bunch of hearsay and hope it leads you back to the scene of the crime.
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What is the CT on how the Roe v Wade verdict was leaked? The investigation proved that there was nothing to see here. Perhaps investigations don’t get to the bottom of what they’re looking into. Sometimes they reach the conclusion they want to reach,
 
Cordelier said:
I guess that answer to that would depend on how grounded in reality it is.
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Okay our impression is what you want it to be. In this case what you ent it to be is wrong. They were introduced by a Russian emigre with ties to the CIA? A Mr. De M——- .
 
jpevans said:
What is the CT on how the Roe v Wade verdict was leaked? The investigation proved that there was nothing to see here. Perhaps investigations don’t get to the bottom of what they’re looking into. Sometimes they reach the conclusion they want to reach,
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Leaks are notoriously hard to track down at the best of times. They happen all of the time, but when is that last time you actually saw someone prosecuted for leaking to the press? It's pretty rare.
 
jpevans said:
Okay our impression is what you want it to be. In this case what you ent it to be is wrong. They were introduced by a Russian emigre with ties to the CIA? A Mr. De M——- .
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Be that as it may, no matter what connections you establish between different people (and I can't imagine that the Russian-speaking community of 1963 Dallas was that large), it still has to pan out on the ground. Lee Harvey Oswald with $30-odd bucks in his pocket shooting a cheap Italian bolt-action rifle doesn't exactly shout "international conspiracy" to me.
 
Cordelier said:
Leaks are notoriously hard to track down at the best of times. They happen all of the time, but when is that last time you actually saw someone prosecuted for leaking to the press? It's pretty rare.
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Chelsea Manning…
 
Cordelier said:
Be that as it may, no matter what connections you establish between different people (and I can't imagine that the Russian-speaking community of 1963 Dallas was that large), it still has to pan out on the ground. Lee Harvey Oswald with $30-odd bucks in his pocket shooting a cheap Italian bolt-action rifle doesn't exactly shout "international conspiracy" to me.
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Feelings…
 
jpevans said:
Feelings…
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Facts. What concrete support did anyone ever give Oswald? Seems to me that he was a loner his entire life. I'm sure he had a drama-driven fantasy life about being an international man of mystery and action... but I don't see any evidence it actually played out in reality until that day the President drove by him.
 
Cordelier said:
Facts. What concrete support did anyone ever give Oswald? Seems to me that he was a loner his entire life. I'm sure he had a drama-driven fantasy life about being an international man of mystery and action... but I don't see any evidence it actually played out in reality until that day the President drove by him.
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The perfect patsy. What facts, that he was allowed to deflect to the USSR & Return to the USofA with relative ease while engaging in pro Cuba concerns in his native NOLA, from an office underneath a known CIA front?
My impression, since we are going with feeling & impression is that he was maneuvered into a position where he could be a scapegoat. Starting well before CIA connected Russian émigré George von Mohrenschildt called Ruth Paine to invite her to meet a Russian speaking couple. Mrs. Paine was also the conduit for the job offer at the TSBD. Why did the Depository need additional help well after the school year had begun? Who authorized it? Why was a known mob guy allowed access to the patsy? To walk right up close & shoot him. Sure all they have to say is "it's not uncommon" in Dallas. Surely it was in other jurisdictions according to contemporary reports.
It's easy to look at Jim Garrison & the HSCoA as crackpots. That makes looking at their cases unnecessary.
 
jpevans said:
The perfect patsy. What facts, that he was allowed to deflect to the USSR & Return to the USofA with relative ease while engaging in pro Cuba concerns in his native NOLA, from an office underneath a known CIA front?
My impression, since we are going with feeling & impression is that he was maneuvered into a position where he could be a scapegoat. Starting well before CIA connected Russian émigré George von Mohrenschildt called Ruth Paine to invite her to meet a Russian speaking couple. Mrs. Paine was also the conduit for the job offer at the TSBD. Why did the Depository need additional help well after the school year had begun? Who authorized it? Why was a known mob guy allowed access to the patsy? To walk right up close & shoot him. Sure all they have to say is "it's not uncommon" in Dallas. Surely it was in other jurisdictions according to contemporary reports.
It's easy to look at Jim Garrison & the HSCoA as crackpots. That makes looking at their cases unnecessary.
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Well, for Oswald to have been a patsy, there had to have been another shooter on the 6th floor of the TSBD. The angle matches up too well to where the headshot occurred. I don't care how elaborate your planning is, there is no way you can determine the exact spot where the fatal shot is going to happen. Only the shooter can determine that at the moment it happens. 5 feet to the left or 5 feet to the right and it becomes a much harder shot - even from the TSBD - because of the deflection angle.
 
Those Who Assassinate And Run Away, Live to Assassinate Another Day



Biden is being given the Andrew Cuomo treatment, courtesy of the power brokers of the Deep State, who now have their knives out for him.

Shed no tears for Biden, but do consider the implications for the country.
 
Cordelier said:
Well, for Oswald to have been a patsy, there had to have been another shooter on the 6th floor of the TSBD. The angle matches up too well to where the headshot occurred. I don't care how elaborate your planning is, there is no way you can determine the exact spot where the fatal shot is going to happen. Only the shooter can determine that at the moment it happens. 5 feet to the left or 5 feet to the right and it becomes a much harder shot - even from the TSBD - because of the deflection angle.
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Okay, that was brought up a while back, the shooter brought the weapon alleged to have been purchased by Oswald & left with the curtain rods. There is much speculation that the only known photo of the patsy with the rifle was photoshopped, as the shadows under his chin don't jibe with the shadows in the rest of the photo. That said, it's alleged that the handwriting on the magazine ad used to buy the rifle is his, how big a sample do you get from a magazine ad, especially if there was an attempt to copy his writing style. Did the seller save every mail order form for every gun they sold? So Police running into the TSBD did not systematically close down the building, this is known because they ran right by our patsy sitting in the break room & up to the 6th floor (Why?) so a shooter had only to not be on the sixth floor to escape out the back door. Of course there was a back door, trucks don't pull up to the front of the building shown in all the pictures from the day.
 
jpevans said:
Okay, that was brought up a while back, the shooter brought the weapon alleged to have been purchased by Oswald & left with the curtain rods. There is much speculation that the only known photo of the patsy with the rifle was photoshopped, as the shadows under his chin don't jibe with the shadows in the rest of the photo. That said, it's alleged that the handwriting on the magazine ad used to buy the rifle is his, how big a sample do you get from a magazine ad, especially if there was an attempt to copy his writing style. Did the seller save every mail order form for every gun they sold? So Police running into the TSBD did not systematically close down the building, this is known because they ran right by our patsy sitting in the break room & up to the 6th floor (Why?) so a shooter had only to not be on the sixth floor to escape out the back door. Of course there was a back door, trucks don't pull up to the front of the building shown in all the pictures from the day.
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But there's no reason whatsoever to suggest that there was anyone else in the building. No employee reported any mysterious stranger, and there were guys working with Oswald on the 6th floor right up until when they left for lunch.
 
Has the name of the CIA section chief in Dallas ever been revealed?

Full disclosure: I know the name and knew the man, but I've never been able to find any public information about him.
 
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