Did a Queens Podiatrist Help Donald Trump Avoid Vietnam? - The New York Times

[OscarLevant]

Sad that we have devolved to name calling...... But I guess when you lose the value of debate thats where you go.

I assume the attempt to use an "accusation" like the daughter of the podiatrist making a claim that he lied for Trump is an attempt to dissuade voters right? Is this not an attempt by someone to "change someones mind"

YET the basis of the accusation is not faculty based?

More so the present retort that I have given in explaining why It does not change my mind.

1) because their is no Factual basis in the claim
2) it does NOT change how he does his policies.


You resort to quoting Einstein with intelligence in the quote to indicate a higher level of thinking...... wow.... just wow....yet lack all the predicates involved in an actual debate.

I would more appreciate you telling me how un intelligent the actual POLICIES are rather than just name calling as stupid party.... but I guess thats the best you can do. At least the other guy that said no was honest and left it at that.....

President Trump is an inveterate liar --a pathological liar this is an established fact so the daughter of the podiatrist claims about Trump are more than likely to be true.

It's not illegal to lie to the public and we're not in a court of law but that's plenty for me to have a legitimate opinion.

 

[Exactice]

President Trump is an inveterate liar --a pathological liar this is an established fact so the daughter of the podiatrist claims about Trump are more than likely to be true.

It's not illegal to lie to the public and we're not in a court of law but that's plenty for me to have a legitimate opinion.

Completely fair. And I have my same opinions and retort. So making a claim like the GOP is stupid and quoting Einstein does not show the same respect of opinion? You want me to respect your opinion but NOT respect mine?

Hypocritical no?

 

[Mr Person]

Why do bone spurs present a problem? Is it really as simple as needing regulation boots to fit everyone? That's all I can think of.



My sister has bone spurs from rock climbing, for example. They have to be accounted for, but they don't prevent rock climbing.

 

[OscarLevant]

Completely fair. And I have my same opinions and retort. So making a claim like the GOP is stupid and quoting Einstein does not show the same respect of opinion? You want me to respect your opinion but NOT respect mine?

Hypocritical no?

Given what I have observed on this forum, respect isn't in much abundance -- my reflexes have adjusted to the general tone, or at least to the individuals who tend to reply to my comments.


Howeer, if you want to have a civil debate about policies, I'll be glad to oblige. But, one issue at a time. Pick an issue. I'm assuming you are right of center, a conservative, a Trump supporter?

 

[Exactice]

Given what I have observed on this forum, respect isn't in much abundance -- my reflexes have adjusted to the general tone, or at least to the individuals who tend to reply to my comments.


Howeer, if you want to have a civil debate about policies, I'll be glad to oblige. But, one issue at a time. Pick an issue. I'm assuming you are right of center, a conservative, a Trump supporter?

Gotcha, I can see accept and agree the stubbornness on this board sometime. With that I Try my best to be constant and at the least show my respect while hoping (dreaming maybe) of getting it in return.

So with that.

In response to the ACTUAL thread so we do NOT derail it to much.

The claim of the daughter of a Podiatrist that may have lied so Trump could dodge the draft.

1) By law I do NOT think this is a disqualifier for the office of the President? But maybe someone can educate me on it?
2) 3rd Party account without proof does NOT make it true. (We can accept opinion, thats fair) But if this is a lie as well there should be some repercussion like defamation.
3) MANY during the Vietnam war did NOT accept and many tried to dodge the draft. Trump is NOT exclusive too it. Did he know that this choice was and could affect a future run as the President I doubt it. So I dont think him dodging the draft IF true had foresight for the presidency.
4) Our laws state innocent until proven guilty. This is no more credible than the Dr Ford Case. Could be true, but no proof and its just an open ended accusation intended to defame the caption individual.
5) This outcome does NOT change any current policies that he has done or plans to do.
6) I am a Veteran served in war time honorably discharged. I hold NO ill will to any person serving or choosing to draft dodge. I accept 2 things being in direct combat......
6a) 1st if you do NOT have the WILL to be there. You will be a greater liability on the battle field.
6b) If you force someone to be on the battle field that does NOT have the will to fight they will endanger both the mission and those you are meant to support.

With those 2 above I would rather have a person dodge the draft than fake it or be forced and fail at the moment of truth when the life of a soldier is in their hands an they choose not to act appropriately. That was My greatest fear while in combat was ensuring my team had the will to support one another, if they lacked that they would endanger us all.


SO again a choice made 53 years ago. May or may NOT affect the outcome... but it does NOT seem that his politics are affected by the choice he made 53 years ago if he is IN FACT a draft dodger.

 

[Taylor]

I was 1A during the draft years and I got lucky when they created a lottery system that, by sheer luck my lottery number was higher than the numbers they drafted up to. But later I join the Navy anyway and was honorably discharged.

I'm appalled to hear that our president who is in Chief of the Armed Forces was a draft Dodger illegally. If he avoided the draft legally I wouldn't fault him for that, not many kids wanted to go to Vietnam, it was not a popular war and personally I was against it myself. But I didn't cheat to get out nor did I flee to Canada.

Excuse me if I view this president with contempt.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/26/us/politics/trump-vietnam-draft-exemption.html

Before my grandfather died, he told me that he paid these two women to make this story up.

 

[OscarLevant]

Instead of telling me that.. WHILE I can accept that you DONT accept his policies.

TELL me how he is doing a bad job, I just listed why I think he IS doing a decent job, discredit it.

Ill give you a couple.

1) First time meeting with a North Korean leader in years...(Carter was the last physical meeting) Missiles has ceased to fly over Japan (but each administration NK has launched missiles)

Apparently you are not aware of the historical context here. THere was a reason no previous president met physically with NK leader:

He's a murderous dictator who does not deserve to be seen in the same photo with our President. They have wanted a photo op with the prez
for many years, for decades, but their leaders, none of them, are worthy of that. Trump's lowering of the presidency by doing that was no difficult feat, he just did as they asked. But, no serious president, not Obama, Clinton, Reagan, etc, would have lowerd themselves. The NK leaders are only worthy of being negotiated with persons below our president's station, which has been done a number of times, and on each time, they violated their agreements. Trump, in his epic buffoonery, after they sent back an American who died from their torture, said he "loves KJU".

Epic buffoonery and diminishing of America on the national stage. Just think of those who are rotting in NK jails, what they must think when they hear our President say that. It's beyond disgraceful, it's tragic.

2) Travel Ban, Upheld by the Supreme court.

Noting that the countries he did not ban were those he had hotels in, one of which is Saudi Arabia, the primary one that ahs sent more terrorists on America than any other, noting that NONE of the banned nations have ever sent us terrorists.

This is epic idiocy on more than one level.

3) Taxes.

Are you kidding me? Prudent economics dictates that you do not give huge tax breaks to the rich in a growing economy, it results in massive deficits, which is occurring as I type this.

4) Trade negotiations and Fair trade, Its ruffling some feathers but is it NOT? We are calling out people whom are getting rich off us?

When you say "getting rich off us", this is too vague, be specific or I can't answer it.

The general consensus on tariffs are the are doing us more harm than good, ESPECIALLY putting tariffs on raw materials.

5) Health care is the Next big one, with the repeal of the mandate there is no Tax, the ACA breakdown may be soon after the Texas move.

The right has done everything they could to sabotage the ACA. Millions are benefiting it, and the ACA's problems can be fixed, but repubs won't
allow it since that would give Obama a legacy, and they can't have that. There is NO way to have a system that disallows discrimination against
preexisting conditions where you don't wind up with something similar to the ACA. If you do risk pools, you wind up with millions not being able to afford it. This was the status quo prior to the ACA, which as far worse than the ACA. I know, I was the victim of the status quo, and the beneficiary of the ACA.

6) Immigration. This sucks we need Border security and a clean up of all loopholes Its forefront right now in the news... We shall see.

A massive reform bill was introduced in the past, but Boehner (then speaker) wouldn't go along with it. Can't have anything that's good coming from Obama

SO again lets discuss the policies with we may DISAGREE but at least explain to me why they are bad and he is doing a bad job?

Fire away, but one issue at a time, please.

 

[Exactice]

......

Actually I had to do a little Historical context prior to my post to figure out exactly what year the last president ever met a NK President.

IT was Carter. Not Clinton, Bush, Reagan or Obama.

With that being said. your sentiments about meeting an NK President is fair, with Kim Jung Un being a little younger, Roddman already meeting him and The western culture, being a little more influential. It was actually an interesting time to MEET KJU (context wise) honestly NOT sure how well the 40 minute meeting actually went, BUT it seems that now was a seemingly by context appropriate time During his Fathers reign I doubt Trump would have had a chance, but having a little more western culture and influence helped. Again 4 missiles over Japan and NOW not one. We got many of our American Soldiers remains back and while Ottos family lost their son they got the body and the release of 3 US detainees Its not perfect but your interpretation is yours. I do Not agree with it in its entirety.

What I do agree is his lack of words and choice of words sure, But his actions do speak much better then his twitter account. So your example of Jailed people sure that sucks. But I feel it was a step forward?

Understood, YET that was NOT the point of the Travel ban. (They were NOT banning Terroist Countries) They banned countries that did NOT have stable government nor identification system to vett travelers. That was the point they did NOT want people whom they could not verify coming in and out of our Country. Saudi Arabia currently has a system or at least a better approved system by the State Department for travel approval.

Venezuela, Libya, Syria, Iran, Yemen, Somalia and North Korea. All unstable countries that lack a prudent government an able to negotiate travel visas and vett in-going or out going individuals. IS IT NOT the Job of the President to protects its People? If you cannot appropriate indentify who shows up to the airport? Thats at least a start right?

Im being a little selfish on the taxes thing... I saw a reduction in taxes, my buddy got a raise and my other buddy whoms wife is an accountant got a little back, Its "crumbs" but its my "crumbs" WITH that though I do see it stupid as it was SUPPOSED to go hand in hand with the repeal of ACA to balance, right now our BUDGET is FUBAR, but I hope the pay off comes..... So this is a wash.

Getting Rich off us? Intellectual property theft. Just go On Ebay and see the counterfeit. This is a loss of profit to those that actually try to manufacture good in the USA.
Honestly, I do need to do more specific research but in fairness, I dont see Tariffs as good... this is NO better than the Boston Tea party.. BUT the intent that I think I see is to bring leverage/threat so fair negotiation can happen. Look at what happened with Canada and Mexico, all the fighting with Trump 2016... and we are re drafting NAFTA... Its a start... Better than doing nothing for 8 more years?


ACA is a very hard discussion and may take more time.... lets try a little and see where it goes.

ACA COULD be fixed. BUT here is my bigger issue It was the greatest moral gift at the extent of the general public. The greatest beneficiary was the pre existing conditions PERIOD. YET they are they HIGHEST cost liability to the program. How do you pay for something that never was budgeted for and now losing the primary people that was supposed to fund it and the mandatory exclusion penalty on your taxes.

Millions are Benefiting, But also Millions have dropped it or opted out and millions more cant afford it because the cost liability is WAY more than the income produced. We combined 2 totally different programs into one that is like trying to look left and right at the same time. You cannot take an INSURANCE risk based system and take out the risk underwriting. THAT devalues the whole system.

While I agree Repubs are trying to sabotage ACA, its also for seemingly good reason, it was "TOO good to be true" and it was... There is NO real way to fund it... Its broke.. and the program is broken.

Your last comment is actually a good one, You know victims of the status quote and beneficiaries of the ACA. That can go both ways. What we have NOT seen yet but may come to fruition is the collapse of the WHOLE system because its broke and no 330 million are out of health care?

Cont....

 

[Exactice]

Part 2

immigration is going to be tough...... I will say this my wife is product of legal immigration so I am somewhat knowledgeable of the process why do these guys get all the benefits while my wife waited 1.5 years just to get here. We paid thousands for filing fees as well as lawyers.... How much do these people pay for Lawyers? More so I am a legal US citizen born and raised, I am certify my wife as a legit wife (2 children married 5 years going strong) Why did I NOT get free legal representation I pay TAXES? I did NOT hide her in a suitcase or sneak her in or overstay a visa? Yet these people get food water medical care (sure not the best but someone has to pay for it? Its not them) So why NOT wait in line like the rest. HELL Melania is VISA precipitant Im sure she waited in some lines.... not a long one probably but she still followed the law.

Sorry we are NOT the worlds police and we only have a finite amount of resources. our OWN people are dying of dehydration and starvation yet these people want to break our laws and claim asylum.. Sorry just not buying it.


BTW Thanks for your change of attitude I really do appreciate it! I enjoy debates rather than name calling and fighting so recognizing and having a legit debate with me is very much appreciated!

 

[OscarLevant]

Gotcha, I can see accept and agree the stubbornness on this board sometime. With that I Try my best to be constant and at the least show my respect while hoping (dreaming maybe) of getting it in return.

So with that.

In response to the ACTUAL thread so we do NOT derail it to much.

The claim of the daughter of a Podiatrist that may have lied so Trump could dodge the draft.

1) By law I do NOT think this is a disqualifier for the office of the President? But maybe someone can educate me on it?

No, and that was never at issue, but character is. It goes to character. Do we want someone who lied to get out of the draft as president?
Not as commander in chief.

2) 3rd Party account without proof does NOT make it true. (We can accept opinion, thats fair) But if this is a lie as well there should be some repercussion like defamation.

We are not in a court of law here. Trump is an incessant liar, and I think this is a fairly well established fact, so add that plus what the podiatrists daughters said, the likelihood that it is true is much greater. You can't defame someone like Trump, he's a pariah without any help from anyone.

3) MANY during the Vietnam war did NOT accept and many tried to dodge the draft. Trump is NOT exclusive too it. Did he know that this choice was and could affect a future run as the President I doubt it. So I dont think him dodging the draft IF true had foresight for the presidency.

What many do has nothing to do what I need to know about someone who wants to be president. I wouldn't have faulted him for avoiding the draft, LEGALLY ( if he really had bone spurs, thing is, he was golfing, playing tennis, etc, during those years ).

Illegally? NO! He's asking us to make him commander in chief.

4) Our laws state innocent until proven guilty. This is no more credible than the Dr Ford Case. Could be true, but no proof and its just an open ended accusation intended to defame the caption individual.

I repeat, we are not in a court of law, we are in the court of public opinion, and there is no law dictating how one forms one's opinion nor is there any moral imperative to have conclusive proof in order to form an opinion.

Not having the luxury of the tools a prosecutor has, we must form our opinions based on AVAILABLE data, and decide on for whom to vote.

Dr. Ford was far more credible than Kavanaugh, in my view. his pitiful partisan hack rant was far below what one shold expect of someone asking for a job and SCOTUS judge. I therefore believe her long before I would believe Kavanaugh.

5) This outcome does NOT change any current policies that he has done or plans to do.

So? But, his poor character makes the likelihood he will make poor choices much greater, which will affect America. This is already happening, the Tariffs, for example.

6) I am a Veteran served in war time honorably discharged. I hold NO ill will to any person serving or choosing to draft dodge. I accept 2 things being in direct combat......
6a) 1st if you do NOT have the WILL to be there. You will be a greater liability on the battle field.
6b) If you force someone to be on the battle field that does NOT have the will to fight they will endanger both the mission and those you are meant to support.

With those 2 above I would rather have a person dodge the draft than fake it or be forced and fail at the moment of truth when the life of a soldier is in their hands an they choose not to act appropriately. That was My greatest fear while in combat was ensuring my team had the will to support one another, if they lacked that they would endanger us all.


SO again a choice made 53 years ago. May or may NOT affect the outcome... but it does NOT seem that his politics are affected by the choice he made 53 years ago if he is IN FACT a draft dodger.

Being a draft dodger is one thing, but dodging the draft illegally and then asking to be commander in chief is altogether a whole 'nuther thing.

What he could have done, if he was so worried about being put in harms way, is that, as soon as he registered, he could have joined the Navy as enlisted, and his chances of being in harms way (sailors are not likely to bivouac, etc ) would have been far less. No one would have faulted him for that. That is what I was about to do until I got a high lottery number. Thing is, a few years later, I joined the Navy, anyway.

But, he chose the path of a coward. I don't expect anyone to be brave, it's easy to talk about such things until one is faced with potentially being killed, but illegally dodging the draft and then asking Americans to make you Commander In Chief, that I got a problem with and so should you.

 

[OscarLevant]

Part 2

immigration is going to be tough...... I will say this my wife is product of legal immigration so I am somewhat knowledgeable of the process why do these guys get all the benefits while my wife waited 1.5 years just to get here. We paid thousands for filing fees as well as lawyers.... How much do these people pay for Lawyers? More so I am a legal US citizen born and raised, I am certify my wife as a legit wife (2 children married 5 years going strong) Why did I NOT get free legal representation I pay TAXES? I did NOT hide her in a suitcase or sneak her in or overstay a visa? Yet these people get food water medical care (sure not the best but someone has to pay for it? Its not them) So why NOT wait in line like the rest. HELL Melania is VISA precipitant Im sure she waited in some lines.... not a long one probably but she still followed the law.

Sorry we are NOT the worlds police and we only have a finite amount of resources. our OWN people are dying of dehydration and starvation yet these people want to break our laws and claim asylum.. Sorry just not buying it.


BTW Thanks for your change of attitude I really do appreciate it! I enjoy debates rather than name calling and fighting so recognizing and having a legit debate with me is very much appreciated!

One issue at a time, please, thanks.

 

[Exactice]

....

AHH!! Thank you... you bring me to the basis. I had to judge Character of HRC or Trump..... I chose Trump plain and simple.... I felt BOTH characters sucked.... so I went on politics and Trump's politics aligned with mine so there was my choice.

HRC character sucked in my BOOK just as much as TRUMP. So we take character as a point of reference if it does NOT compute we move on to the next and the next till we come to our decision. NOW if it was Sanders over Trump probably would have taken Sanders even though I am a conservative at heart. The difference is likely congress could have had a little more bi partisanship between Sanders and the Repubs even though the saw far left socialism as their ticket.

I know we are Not in a court of law, so again you have your "Opinion" as do I. you think he was a draft dodger, I just want facts that he was. Until then its still only opinion?

Iraq/Afghanistan etc vs Vietnam the Draft etc...... context plays a lot. I have know concision objectors that did NOT want to go to Iraq, so be it, get out, Does that mean that person is NOT qualified to lead? Of course not They have their difference of views, Same as WE. Just because you and I do Not agree does NOT disqualify you from being the POTUS right?

Trump is NO different 53 years ago. He made a choice and needs to own it. HIS action an policies are what dicate the vote meter at this time the ELECTORATE believed in him regardless if he dodged the draft and banged porn starts. this is NOT American Idle, POTUS protect the US, POTUS leads the Greatest Army, POTUS makes budgets and POTUS elects his cabinet.

If Trump STRONGLY believed against Vietnam or was a coward enough to dodge it 53 years ago is on his conscious. NOT mine. And I should NOT fault him for the lack of conscious 53 years ago. ONLY on what he is ELECTED to do NOW.

I am looking at the mirror right now and thinking..... I might have some things in my past that I am NOT proud of.... I might have some that would grow a black cloud if I ran for office BUT I THINK I could after learning all the lessons be a good politician and if the people supported me through my mistakes it is what it is. But likely they would support me for what I CAN DO for them RIGHT here and right now... Now what I did 50 years ago....

 

[zimmer]

I was 1A during the draft years and I got lucky when they created a lottery system that, by sheer luck my lottery number was higher than the numbers they drafted up to. But later I join the Navy anyway and was honorably discharged.

I'm appalled to hear that our president who is in Chief of the Armed Forces was a draft Dodger illegally. If he avoided the draft legally I wouldn't fault him for that, not many kids wanted to go to Vietnam, it was not a popular war and personally I was against it myself. But I didn't cheat to get out nor did I flee to Canada.

Excuse me if I view this president with contempt.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/26/us/politics/trump-vietnam-draft-exemption.html

I’m appalled too.

Disgusted really.

The NYT runs a hearsay story that’s as credible as those created by:

1. The Der Spiegel “journalist”.

2. Ballsey Ford and her BS story on Kavanaugh.

3. Swetnik, and her BS story on Kavanaugh.

4. The Duke Lacrosse team.

5. Al Sharpton’s Tawana Bradley.

6. Dan Rather’s Bush 43’s draft dodging.

But look at the source... the NYT. They’ve destroyed their credibility, and this type of bull**** adds to their National Enquirer status.

 

[SLC]

Another NY Times unverifiable story surprise, surprise, surprise. Yawn. :roll:

 

[dcsports]

I was 1A during the draft years and I got lucky when they created a lottery system that, by sheer luck my lottery number was higher than the numbers they drafted up to. But later I join the Navy anyway and was honorably discharged.

I'm appalled to hear that our president who is in Chief of the Armed Forces was a draft Dodger illegally. If he avoided the draft legally I wouldn't fault him for that, not many kids wanted to go to Vietnam, it was not a popular war and personally I was against it myself. But I didn't cheat to get out nor did I flee to Canada.

Excuse me if I view this president with contempt.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/26/us/politics/trump-vietnam-draft-exemption.html

I get that the New York Times published this little article, but the events in question happened in 1968, and have been the source of speculation for decades. In what world is this breaking news?

 

[Bullseye]

I was 1A during the draft years and I got lucky when they created a lottery system that, by sheer luck my lottery number was higher than the numbers they drafted up to. But later I join the Navy anyway and was honorably discharged.

I'm appalled to hear that our president who is in Chief of the Armed Forces was a draft Dodger illegally. If he avoided the draft legally I wouldn't fault him for that, not many kids wanted to go to Vietnam, it was not a popular war and personally I was against it myself. But I didn't cheat to get out nor did I flee to Canada.

Excuse me if I view this president with contempt.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/26/us/politics/trump-vietnam-draft-exemption.html

Does Mueller know about this? It's sure to add another six months on his investigation and probably turn up a couple of the doctor's unpaid parking or maybe even find he tore the "do not remove under penalty of law" label off his mattress.

 

[Bullseye]

I was 1A during the draft years and I got lucky when they created a lottery system that, by sheer luck my lottery number was higher than the numbers they drafted up to. But later I join the Navy anyway and was honorably discharged.

I'm appalled to hear that our president who is in Chief of the Armed Forces was a draft Dodger illegally. If he avoided the draft legally I wouldn't fault him for that, not many kids wanted to go to Vietnam, it was not a popular war and personally I was against it myself. But I didn't cheat to get out nor did I flee to Canada.

Excuse me if I view this president with contempt.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/26/us/politics/trump-vietnam-draft-exemption.html

My lottery number was `13. Ran down and joined the Navy. I knew a couple of guys that went to Canada. Most of my contemporaries either let themselves get drafted or enlisted.


As far as Trump, at this point what difference does it?

 

[SLC]

I had a college deferment I wanted to go in as an officer if I got drafted after college. When the first lottery was held my number was 186 IIRK I did not renew my deferment and waited out my year of eligibility. . The guys at my college all contribute $5 each to a pot and divided the pot between the guys that had number 1 in the lottery.

 

[SLC]

So we have a third party story from someone that may be a an anti Trumper. And they have Zero proof to corroborate the story. And the story is the Podiatrist LIED in his diagnosis and now we are supposed to believe his story to that third person is true. How do you know he wasn't lying to his daughters? How do we know his daughters aren't lying. We have already established they think he LIED in his diagnosis. Also the Podiatrist violated professional ethics by identifying Trumps medical history to his daughter. Today that is against Federal Law. It does not seem like the guy should be trusted.

 

[upsideguy]

Hell, even 1AOs/1Os, when called, serve their country in some capacity.

He is serving us.... he has lent is fine mind and best words to serve as our President...because he, and only he, could drain the swamp. (and build a newer one that flowed into his bank account)

 

[Xelor]

He is serving us.... he has lent is fine mind and best words to serve as our President...because he, and only he, could drain the swamp. (and build a newer one that flowed into his bank account)

I see that if not before, the past two years of exposure to Trump and his cohorts has made you a master of sarcastically...

 

[Hawkeye10]

My Uncle my dad's brother who was a Radical Leader at UW Madison got out of serving by having his GF and future wife break his foot with a cinder block.

Trump had money and connections, he did not have to do that.

 

[TheParser]

The story was in a "newspaper" that is the media leader of the Resistance.

It should, therefore, be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[SLC]

My Uncle my dad's brother who was a Radical Leader at UW Madison got out of serving by having his GF and future wife break his foot with a cinder block.

Trump had money and connections, he did not have to do that.

Ouch :lol:

 

[Hawkeye10]

Ouch :lol:

That's dedication to the mission!