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Developments with Microsoft’s new Windows 8 system

mbig

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Normally I would post this in the science section but this transcends science to a much broader audience.. Windows 8 users.
Finally a [partial] Fix for the screwy release.
I had almost cured one of my laptops already.
Bought another with Window 7 intentionally. Was hard to find on a late model but did.

Developments with Microsoft's new Windows 8 system - The Washington Post
Developments with Microsoft’s new Windows 8 system
Associated Press, Updated: Wednesday, June 26, 12:23 AM

[......]
— May 7: Microsoft says it will retool Windows 8 to address Complaints and Confusion, though it offers few details. Microsoft also discloses that it has sold more than 100 million Windows 8 licenses.

— May 14: Microsoft says its Windows update, previously codenamed Blue, will be called 8.1 and will be Free to Windows 8 users.

— May 30: Microsoft details some of the changes. Users will be able to set their machines to start automatically in the older, desktop mode.
A Start button is restored in look, though clicking on it will lead to Window 8’s full-screen startup page rather than the Start menu found in older Windows.

— June 26: Microsoft is scheduled to release a Preview version on Windows 8.1 as it kicks off Build, a three-day conference in San Francisco for partners and other developers.
[......]

additionally:
Poll on Front Page of Yahoo Finance today (no specific link)

POLL
Microsoft is unveiling changes to Windows 8 after Complaints, what's your opinion of the operating system?

Love it (4367) 7%

Hate it (13980) 22%


Somewhere in between (9333) 15%

Don't care/haven't bothered to find out (34728) 56%
 
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Fiddytree

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Now tempted to go back to Mac OS in order to get work done instead of having a harder time doing more than one thing at once, while having an unworkable search in the OS.
 
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Spartacus FPV

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I don't care how they patch it, never going to Windows 8.

I'll skip a generation again.
 

RabidAlpaca

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Now tempted to go back to Mac OS in order to get work done instead of having a harder time doing more than one thing at once, while having an unworkable search in the OS.

Just get a bootleg copy of Windows 7. I have a single copy installed on more than 5 computers.

I won't be changing over until I absolutely have to.

I don't care how they patch it, never going to Windows 8.

I'll skip a generation again.

Agreed. Windows 8 is like Windows ME, Windows Vista, and the other ****ty ones. I should have no problem skipping it, and hopefully windows 9 or whatever will be better.

My upgrades have been: Windows 95 > Windows 98 > Windows XP > Windows 7
 

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A Start button is restored in look, though clicking on it will lead to Window 8’s full-screen startup page rather than the Start menu found in older Windows.

Leave it to Microsoft to completely misunderstand the problem.
 

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Now tempted to go back to Mac OS in order to get work done instead of having a harder time doing more than one thing at once, while having an unworkable search in the OS.

Now that is funny... unworkable search... not being able to find things in Windows 8....... admit it, you have not tried it. Finding things in Windows 8 and soon 8.1, is so easy... just start typing on the start page! How hard can it be?
 

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Leave it to Microsoft to completely misunderstand the problem.

Considering that the naysayers cant articulate what the problem is in the first place, then it is not hard to misunderstand...

Lets see what the naysayers have been saying...

Oh no there is no Start button. Well actually there is, it just does not look like it did once.

So what does Microsoft do.. add a physical "Start" button, that no one uses anyways, since most people put shortcuts on the desktop.

Okay you could not boot directly to desktop... with Windows 8.1 you can. So in other words, you can make Windows 8 look exactly like Windows 7 now, totally by passing the "metro" look. Happy now? No of course not..

Then what is the freaking problem?

Is the OS slow as Vista was? Hardly
Is the OS buggy like ME was? Hardly

Then what?
 

Fiddytree

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Now that is funny... unworkable search... not being able to find things in Windows 8....... admit it, you have not tried it. Finding things in Windows 8 and soon 8.1, is so easy... just start typing on the start page! How hard can it be?

I've been using my mother's system for weeks. It's abysmal for research, dude. I don't know how on earth you could manage 10 browser windows, with upwards of 20 tabs in each one, at least one window of OneNote (frequently 2-3), a tabbed PDF reader with several documents inside, a Word document for writing, a music player, and an audio editor-without staying in the Desktop environment (which they made incredibly god damned inconvenient). That's why I have been sticking with 7 proudly. Compared to 8, 7 looks incredible for searching through documents and getting crap done. Why on earth is it so stupid difficult to close out of an application or window on a track pad? I have to actually pull out an external mouse to deal with it effectively enough. Why is the multitasking snap feature so ungodly useless? Furthermore, why is it turned into yet another layer I have to interact with to get anything done, let alone why it looks absolutely atrocious? There is no excuse for making metro damned awful and prominent. It was as if Apple had decided to make the widgets layer the primary layer for operating the bloody OS. Just absolutely bonkers stupid.

On Windows 8, I feel like I have to go through extra steps just to do more than 1 thing at once.

Sorry, man, but my PDF collection is growing, I need to search through documents quickly and effectively, without errors or not finding anything at all (something that Windows is actually great at-screwing it up badly). I need an operating system that cares for actual productivity instead of suggesting that I must stick with touch and an ungodly dumb number of unworkable layers to do my work. I don't give a damn about touchscreens, I don't want to be hankered to a crippled multitasking interface. I would rather buy a low level Mac mini to supplement a Windows 7 notebook than deal with 8. Even the simplest features of Mavericks involving the aging Finder convinced me that I could save more time on a Mac than in Windows.
 
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Nuts and bolts Windows 8 is far better than Windows 7. If the start button issue and the new start button are what worry you then just spend an extra $5 on Start8. It rertores the look and full functionality of the old Windows start button and sets the system to auto-boot to desktop.

Problem solved.
 

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Leave it to Microsoft to completely misunderstand the problem.

The tablet mode (normal mode) should have been something you turn on if you need it. They should have worked on speed and left the UI similar to what it was. I think they wanted everyone to have the same UI whether on PC, tablet or phone. The PC part is what's ****ed up.
 

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I've been using my mother's system for weeks. It's abysmal for research, dude. I don't know how on earth you could manage 10 browser windows, with upwards of 20 tabs in each one, at least one window of OneNote (frequently 2-3), a tabbed PDF reader with several documents inside, a Word document for writing, a music player, and an audio editor-without staying in the Desktop environment (which they made incredibly god damned inconvenient).

Eh? No one is forcing you to use the metro interface.... As for 10 browser windows.... why on earth? That aint research, but chaos.

That's why I have been sticking with 7 proudly. Compared to 8, 7 looks incredible for searching through documents and getting crap done.

LOL seriously? Search is the same on both. The only added search feature is in the metro look where you can search across apps, music, online and anywhere in between.

Why on earth is it so stupid difficult to close out of an application or window on a track pad? I have to actually pull out an external mouse to deal with it effectively enough.

Ahh I agree ... but then get a mouse. They cost like 5 bucks.

Why is the multitasking snap feature so ungodly useless?

Again, you dont have to use the metro interface...I barely dont as it is.

Furthermore, why is it turned into yet another layer I have to interact with to get anything done, let alone why it looks absolutely atrocious?

What other layer? The metro interface? I use Windows 8 daily, and spend about 1% time in the metro interface.

There is no excuse for making metro damned awful and prominent. It was as if Apple had decided to make the widgets layer the primary layer for operating the bloody OS. Just absolutely bonkers stupid.

You mean like the Apple launch pad thing? HATE it...Beyond useless and cluttering up the screen always.

On Windows 8, I feel like I have to go through extra steps just to do more than 1 thing at once.

funny... I feel the opposite... it has improved my productivity... I can find my files much easier, move then faster and so on.

Sorry, man, but my PDF collection is growing, I need to search through documents quickly and effectively, without errors or not finding anything at all (something that Windows is actually great at-screwing it up badly).

Searching for PDFs? *.pdf in the search field and wupti all your PDF files..That is piss easy. Is it searching IN PDFs, then how on earth is that Microsoft's fault that Adobe sucks? Do you expect that Microsoft build in the ability to search WITH IN PDF files.. any files of 3rd party programs?

I need an operating system that cares for actual productivity instead of suggesting that I must stick with touch and an ungodly dumb number of unworkable layers to do my work. I don't give a damn about touchscreens, I don't want to be hankered to a crippled multitasking interface. I would rather buy a low level Mac mini to supplement a Windows 7 notebook than deal with 8. Even the simplest features of Mavericks involving the aging Finder convinced me that I could save more time on a Mac than in Windows.

... seriously no one is forcing you to do anything in Windows 8 and with Windows 8.1 you can even boot directly to the desktop if you wish.

As for Mac... it is not even close to catching up to Windows... gezz....

As for Finder... you do realize there are 3rd party programs that have been doing similar on Windows since.. hmm Windows 95?
 

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Considering that the naysayers cant articulate what the problem is in the first place, then it is not hard to misunderstand...

Yes folks, how dare average computer users not have the tehcnical no how to explain what's bother thing. It's not the responsability of a major tech company that undoubtably have divisions aimed at focus grouping and testing to determine consumer demands and desires to figure out what they're actually wanting, those "naysayers" should be able to clearly explain!.

Oh no there is no Start button. Well actually there is, it just does not look like it did once.

Proof one that perhaps the notion of "the button" in and of itself isn't necessarily what the issue is. The Windows 7 start button doesn't look like the standard start button of old, but that didn't seem to garner nearly as much complaints. Could it possibly be because the way the start button FUNCTIONED was relatively similar?

So what does Microsoft do.. add a physical "Start" button, that no one uses anyways, since most people put shortcuts on the desktop.

Well, here's something useful...PeteEU, speaker of truth about what "most people" do with their computers and how they use it. Clearly, these "naysayers" are just crazy people who don't understand that "most" people don't function like them at all. Thank god we have PeteEU here to tell us the FACTS about what "most people" do.

Okay you could not boot directly to desktop... with Windows 8.1 you can. So in other words, you can make Windows 8 look exactly like Windows 7 now, totally by passing the "metro" look. Happy now? No of course not..

So, since you're seemingly all knowing I'll just ask you rather than bothering to google it....you can make it so that when you hit the start button in Windows 8/1 it doesn't take you to the "metro" app menu? Because if not, you're not actually "Totally" passing the Metro look, you're just delaying it.
 

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Nuts and bolts Windows 8 is far better than Windows 7. If the start button issue and the new start button are what worry you then just spend an extra $5 on Start8. It rertores the look and full functionality of the old Windows start button and sets the system to auto-boot to desktop.

Problem solved.

For all the slack that Apple gets in terms of stealing developers ideas, Microsoft should've just swallowed the group that created that with how often I see it posted.
 

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Proof one that perhaps the notion of "the button" in and of itself isn't necessarily what the issue is. The Windows 7 start button doesn't look like the standard start button of old, but that didn't seem to garner nearly as much complaints. Could it possibly be because the way the start button FUNCTIONED was relatively similar?

You mean the function that almost no one used?

Well, here's something useful...PeteEU, speaker of truth about what "most people" do with their computers and how they use it. Clearly, these "naysayers" are just crazy people who don't understand that "most" people don't function like them at all. Thank god we have PeteEU here to tell us the FACTS about what "most people" do.

Ahh get off your high horse. I have serviced computers for since Windows 3.1 came out and the last few years one of my main customer bases has been the 50+ crowd. And I have yet to meet anyone that actually uses the start button as intended. Almost all have shortcuts on the desktop to their programs and even folders. Those are the "average" people we are talking about, since no professional would ever use the freaking start button. In fact it is a freaking nightmare often when they want quick service over the phone... press start... whats that is the answer more than often. Very few people actually use it! All they need is a big icon that says "EMAIL" and they are happy.

And like it or not, the main problem with the old start menu was that you had to click click slide and what not to, find the programs you were looking for. Now you dont. In fact I would claim, that getting access to your programs in Windows 8 start menu is far easier than in any windows before...

Sorry but compared to the old start menu, the new metro style is far far superior on every front.. unless you some how like small menus with sub-menus on sub-menus. Old Start menu... find me Microsoft Access... Press start and then go to Programs and then scroll down in a small menu to Microsoft Office and then click Access. That is at least 5 stages if not more. New start menu.. right click, go to all apps.. slide over to Access and click. That is 4 stages.

Or how about searching for Access? Old start menu.. press start, press the search field and type Access. New way... type Access and there it is.

So, since you're seemingly all knowing I'll just ask you rather than bothering to google it....you can make it so that when you hit the start button in Windows 8/1 it doesn't take you to the "metro" app menu? Because if not, you're not actually "Totally" passing the Metro look, you're just delaying it.

The "metro style" app menu IS THE bloody start menu of old.. that is the whole freaking point. It is the place you can place the links to programs that are installed and get easy access to them. How is that different than the old start menu of Windows 7?

The start menu of Windows 95 looks nothing like the start menu of Windows XP and the Windows XP start button looks nothing like that of Vista or Windows 7. It has evolved.

Now I would have liked from the start, a method to start up directly in desktop. That is coming to Windows 8.1 so that is great.

But else the "metro style" start menu is just that.. a start menu you dont need to use if you dont want too. Pin programs to your desktop and it works just as it always has. Now if you want to use the metro style apps then that is up to you.. I personally like the Adobe Reader Metro Style over the stand alone desktop version. I also like the Skype for Windows 8 over the standard Skype (although for some reason it does not always show me as online... a bit annoying). But I dont like the IE for Metro, so I use standard Chrome instead. I never use many of the so called apps.. like news apps and what not.. because it is far easier to use the websites via a browser... now on a tablet type machine that is different, but not on a desktop. But no one is forcing you to use the metro style apps on a desktop. Have you seen the metro style file browsers? They are horrible for the above average persons.. where as I suspect the simplicity could appeal a lot to the average user.

Windows 8 is suppose to be an OS that works well on tablets and desktops and it does both. You cant do a desktop experience on a tablet .. that is simply impossible with the lack of an accurate pointing device (your finger sucks basically) but it is easier to use a tablet OS on a desktop with a mouse.. especially if the OS, like Windows 8, is a hybrid. You can get the best of both worlds, or you can choose which one you prefer. It is up to you, and especially with 8.1.

My point is that much of the critic of Windows 8 is irrational and not based on facts. The number one critic is the lack of a start button/menu.. despite it being there.... it just looks different. That is irrational is it not? It is the same crap that happens when you change your coins or bank notes... people complain like there is no tomorrow and it passes by once they get use to the changes.

Windows 8 has no massive bugs like ME and Vista and is far from slow.. it is in fact faster than Windows 7 .. so what is the problem with Windows 8? ... and we are back again to the supposed lack of a start button that very few people ever used.
 

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Eh? No one is forcing you to use the metro interface.... As for 10 browser windows.... why on earth? That aint research, but chaos.

Windows 8 practically does force Metro on you, Pete. No, Pete, it's research. Research databases, book reviews, library catalogs, Amazon book tabs, etc.

LOL seriously? Search is the same on both. The only added search feature is in the metro look where you can search across apps, music, online and anywhere in between.

The search anywhere feature would be more useful if it didn't still suck major, ungodly, ass. What I meant was, I could put up with a terrible search functionality if the rest of the OS allowed me to get work done at a reasonable pace. 8 does not do that.

Ahh I agree ... but then get a mouse. They cost like 5 bucks.

For a notebook? It has to work on the trackpad easily for such a basic operation. I can't close the damn windows without 2-3, sometimes 4-5 times on a trackpad. Do you know how unbelievably ridiculous that is, how much time I would have to waste every damn day just to do basic computing?


Again, you dont have to use the metro interface...I barely dont as it is.

Then why is it the primary layer to the OS? Am I not allowed to criticize the front-freaking layer to an operating system that is embarrassing?



What other layer? The metro interface? I use Windows 8 daily, and spend about 1% time in the metro interface.

When you multitask through metro in 8 you have to deal with it as a big colored blob, in which you have to think as a separate entity. Unlike snapping windows in 7, when you can quickly and easily use other apps that are not snapped in place, you have to go through a more complicated process to just access other applications and windows. It's like having your bulletin board smacking you in the freaking face every 2 minutes.

Great, Pete, you spend 1% in Metro. I would like to as well, minus the freaking stupid amount of times where I feel like I am being pushed away from "Desktop mode" as the only mode of operation.


You mean like the Apple launch pad thing? HATE it...Beyond useless and cluttering up the screen always.

Which isn't the default mechanism to get through your experience.

funny... I feel the opposite... it has improved my productivity... I can find my files much easier, move then faster and so on.

Feel the opposite. I'm just telling you it sucks for my needs.

Searching for PDFs? *.pdf in the search field and wupti all your PDF files..That is piss easy. Is it searching IN PDFs, then how on earth is that Microsoft's fault that Adobe sucks? Do you expect that Microsoft build in the ability to search WITH IN PDF files.. any files of 3rd party programs?

Hi, welcome to 2004! If Apple could do it with Spotlight back when John Kerry was running for President of the United States, Microsoft has no excuse. I cannot tell you how many times doing a keyword search for any document that makes mention of a certain bill, a certain person, etc. made my live easier. Let's say I took notes on the documents in question, but as I go along I notice something incredibly common or unique about some of these documents. I can use Spotlight to help speed that comparative process along. That's just PDF documents. There's a great deal more useful about Spotlight than that.

Spotlight was fantastic at so many things. I was utterly shocked to find out that Windows, highly touted by folks "who do work," had a slow, bloated, and utterly useless search mechanism. I mean, good God, what kind of a moron puts up with waiting 10 minutes to find out if a document exists on your system? What kind of a fool thinks that incredibly long document titles are the only way we should be able to figure out what is in the documents?

... seriously no one is forcing you to do anything in Windows 8 and with Windows 8.1 you can even boot directly to the desktop if you wish.

As for Mac... it is not even close to catching up to Windows... gezz....

As for Finder... you do realize there are 3rd party programs that have been doing similar on Windows since.. hmm Windows 95?

They minimized the desktop experience, and you know it. They double and tripled down on touch. Great, I can boot directly to Desktop mode. Where's the improvements? They essentially dinged up the Desktop environment, refused to make it better, and I am supposed to be pleased with that. How hilarious.

Third party applications doing what better? I know, I know, you think a user should pay extra money for basic functionality, often with it doing it poorly.
 

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For all the slack that Apple gets in terms of stealing developers ideas, Microsoft should've just swallowed the group that created that with how often I see it posted.


It's such a simple little program that I'm not sure the developers had to be exceptionally brilliant... they just saw a gaping hole in the Windows market and plugged it fast and seamlessly. But then Stardock has a healthy chunk of their product line built around Windows desktop customization so it's natural they would be the ones to do it.
 

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Windows 8 practically does force Metro on you, Pete. No, Pete, it's research. Research databases, book reviews, library catalogs, Amazon book tabs, etc.

And cant you do that in a browser and the file manager? No need to go into Metro at all.

The search anywhere feature would be more useful if it didn't still suck major, ungodly, ass. What I meant was, I could put up with a terrible search functionality if the rest of the OS allowed me to get work done at a reasonable pace. 8 does not do that.

Terrible search functionality.. if searching files on your PC, in apps/programs and online in one box is terrible.. then what is good? You can even search inside files for key words if you want. It has been like that since Vista.

For a notebook? It has to work on the trackpad easily for such a basic operation. I can't close the damn windows without 2-3, sometimes 4-5 times on a trackpad. Do you know how unbelievably ridiculous that is, how much time I would have to waste every damn day just to do basic computing?

Well again dont use the bloody metro interface programs and use the usual desktop ones. And dont buy a notebook with no touch screen. Saw a touch screen Windows 8 notebook for 450 euros the other day.... was actually tempted in replacing the one I have.

Then why is it the primary layer to the OS? Am I not allowed to criticize the front-freaking layer to an operating system that is embarrassing?

As I have said many times, you dont need to use the metro interface. I rarely use it, and the only times i see it is when I start my machine up, need to start a program that is not on my desktop or have to search for a file/program.

When you multitask through metro in 8 you have to deal with it as a big colored blob, in which you have to think as a separate entity.

THEN DONT DO THAT! How many times do I have to say it.. dont use Metro if you dont like it.. Multitasking in desktop mode is as it always has been.

Unlike snapping windows in 7, when you can quickly and easily use other apps that are not snapped in place, you have to go through a more complicated process to just access other applications and windows.

Snapping? Had actually too look up what that meant.. because I have never used it since I run 3 monitors. But news flash... it works in Windows 8 as well... just tried it. Windows key Left arrow and Windows key right arrow are the shortcuts if you dont want to use your mouse.

Great, Pete, you spend 1% in Metro. I would like to as well, minus the freaking stupid amount of times where I feel like I am being pushed away from "Desktop mode" as the only mode of operation.

Okay.. lets sort this out. What are you doing when you feel you are being pushed into Metro mode?

Feel the opposite. I'm just telling you it sucks for my needs.

So tell what programs you use.. because you must be doing something wrong to constantly be battling the metro interface.

Hi, welcome to 2004! If Apple could do it with Spotlight back when John Kerry was running for President of the United States, Microsoft has no excuse. I cannot tell you how many times doing a keyword search for any document that makes mention of a certain bill, a certain person, etc. made my live easier. Let's say I took notes on the documents in question, but as I go along I notice something incredibly common or unique about some of these documents. I can use Spotlight to help speed that comparative process along. That's just PDF documents. There's a great deal more useful about Spotlight than that.

Spotlight was fantastic at so many things. I was utterly shocked to find out that Windows, highly touted by folks "who do work," had a slow, bloated, and utterly useless search mechanism. I mean, good God, what kind of a moron puts up with waiting 10 minutes to find out if a document exists on your system? What kind of a fool thinks that incredibly long document titles are the only way we should be able to figure out what is in the documents?

Funny, my Windows 8 searches inside PDF files.. My Windows 8 has "Spotlight" functionality. I just searched for the word "Samsung" in my Metro interface by just typing Samsung. I got a load of files and pictures and PDFs. For example an issue of a computer magazine I have in PDF (yes it is bootleg) that has Samsung ads in it.. found it np.. and it was instant. It even found some pictures that were taken by a Samsung camera it seems.. did not even know that it could search in the meta data. It even searched inside ZIP/RAR files.... something Macs do not do automatically.

Point is, Windows 8 search can search in ANY file for ANY text string. Some files are automatically set up.. like PDFs, others you need to manually go in and set up... like DLLs and EXE files.

They minimized the desktop experience, and you know it. They double and tripled down on touch. Great, I can boot directly to Desktop mode. Where's the improvements? They essentially dinged up the Desktop environment, refused to make it better, and I am supposed to be pleased with that. How hilarious.

There are plenty of improvements under the hood. Search has been improved, as has copying. The resource use has been lowered and speed has increased.. and many more things you dont see but are there.
 

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Nuts and bolts Windows 8 is far better than Windows 7. If the start button issue and the new start button are what worry you then just spend an extra $5 on Start8. It rertores the look and full functionality of the old Windows start button and sets the system to auto-boot to desktop.

Problem solved.

I think ClassicShell works just as well and its free
 

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Only in Pete's world is it the customers fault they do not like your product....
 

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I'm not at all interested in using Bing in any form. I know and love Google and I'll continue to use that. Not one person was asking for the return of the start button, we want the start MENU back. There are those of us who know our file systems, have no problem managing them - LET US! Libraries and file system obfuscation from the user are the wrong way to go after more than a decade or two of user education in file system management.
 

PeteEU

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Only in Pete's world is it the customers fault they do not like your product....

Hell no.. dislike all you want that is your problem.

But dont come here and say that it is because of supposed non existent start menu that no one really used in previous versions of Windows. That is nothing but a lame excuse... what is the real reason? Are you an Apple fanboy? Linux nerd? Or just hate Microsoft? There must be some reason since blaming a "start menu" issue is overblown and totally irrational, since the start menu is still there... it just looks different.

Or do you just hate the metro look and feel on a desktop? Fine that is rational... I dont like aspects of it that is for sure... but guess what... then dont use it.. no one is forcing you to use it.... and I rarely use it.

Just saying... much of the hate against Windows 8 seems overblown and irrational and often comes from people who praise Apple oddly enough... :)
 

Redress

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Hell no.. dislike all you want that is your problem.

But dont come here and say that it is because of supposed non existent start menu that no one really used in previous versions of Windows. That is nothing but a lame excuse... what is the real reason? Are you an Apple fanboy? Linux nerd? Or just hate Microsoft? There must be some reason since blaming a "start menu" issue is overblown and totally irrational, since the start menu is still there... it just looks different.

Or do you just hate the metro look and feel on a desktop? Fine that is rational... I dont like aspects of it that is for sure... but guess what... then dont use it.. no one is forcing you to use it.... and I rarely use it.

Just saying... much of the hate against Windows 8 seems overblown and irrational and often comes from people who praise Apple oddly enough... :)

Not saying there is no start menu, saying that it does not function as nicely as it used to in previous versions, that it is less convenient and less appealing. The problem is not that people are not explaining their complaints, it is that you refuse to understand them and claim it is something else.
 

PeteEU

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I'm not at all interested in using Bing in any form. I know and love Google and I'll continue to use that. Not one person was asking for the return of the start button, we want the start MENU back. There are those of us who know our file systems, have no problem managing them - LET US! Libraries and file system obfuscation from the user are the wrong way to go after more than a decade or two of user education in file system management.

The start menu is there.. it is just full screen now and much more functional. Pressing the Windows key in Windows XP to 7 brought up the start menu... guess what, it also works in Windows 8.. and is full screen now. Or do you want a small start menu in one corner.. is that all you want? Do you hate change? Did you complain each time when they changed the start menu from Windows95/98/Windows 2000 to XP and XP to Vista and Vista to 7? It grew and grew!

And the file management system in Windows 8 is no different than in Windows 7... or Vista.. and in most cases... Windows XP.
 

PeteEU

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Not saying there is no start menu, saying that it does not function as nicely as it used to in previous versions, that it is less convenient and less appealing. The problem is not that people are not explaining their complaints, it is that you refuse to understand them and claim it is something else.

WTF are you talking about? Does not function as nicely? Explain. I am really trying to understand the issues people have... but no one is even remotely attempting to explain them.. they just say no start menu/button and that is utter bull****.

What exactly has changed other than it is now a full screen version? Now the appealing part I can understand, but that supposedly is changing in 8.1, but less convenient? Being able to search directly by just starting to type is less convenient than having to press the search box first before you can type? Being able to search directly in apps, files and online from the same search function? Less convenient that you can now see if you have mail? Less convenient that your contacts are not tied into the most popular forms of communications? How is the new menu less convenient? You can even customize it as you want.. something that was pretty hard in the old start menu..

Tell me, I am just trying to understand why so many people have problems with with Windows 8..
 
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