• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
34,951
Reaction score
16,310
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
Desmond Tutu denounced religions that discriminate against LGTB-identified people by making some very strong statements during the United Nations' launch of its gay-rights program in Cape Town this Friday, reports AFP.He leaves no doubt about his opinions regarding LGTB rights, declaring:

I would not worship a God who is homophobic and that is how deeply I feel about this.​
He added:

I would refuse to go to a homophobic heaven. No, I would say sorry, I mean I would much rather go to the other place.​


Read more @ : Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

I tend to agree. If my God is a God who dislikes someone base on who they are attracted to, and who they love then i would not like to be in that place with a god that is supposedly "all knowing and all loving" .​
 

digsbe

Truth will set you free
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
20,224
Reaction score
14,224
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I hope he enjoys his eternal suffering that is so painful we can't imagine it on earth. Hell is no joke.

God judges sin, homosexuality isn't the only sin out there. People that wrongfully divorce, commit adultery, lust, and a myriad of other forms of sexual sin will also be judged for it. Truth of the matter is that we've all sinned and unless we repent we will have to be judged for it which means to be sent to hell for eternity. Desmond Tutu is ignorant and has no idea the level of suffering that awaits unless they repent.
 

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
34,951
Reaction score
16,310
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
I hope he enjoys his eternal suffering that is so painful we can't imagine it on earth. Hell is no joke.

God judges sin, homosexuality isn't the only sin out there. People that wrongfully divorce, commit adultery, lust, and a myriad of other forms of sexual sin will also be judged for it. Truth of the matter is that we've all sinned and unless we repent we will have to be judged for it which means to be sent to hell for eternity. Desmond Tutu is ignorant and has no idea the level of suffering that awaits unless they repent.
Yes a bishop is "ignorant". Or maybe he is just a Bishop with an opinion which isnt the churches interpretation.
 

digsbe

Truth will set you free
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
20,224
Reaction score
14,224
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Yes a bishop is "ignorant". Or maybe he is just a Bishop with an opinion which isnt the churches interpretation.
Or willfully deceived as are many Christians that want to go with the world, reject truth, and approve of homosexuality. Doesn't matter what they think, when stacked with Biblical truth they are wrong, and the majority of the time their conclusion is based on selfish motives because they want homosexuality to not be a sin (and one person's beliefs/wants does not change those of God's). If he professes to be a Bible believing Christian yet ignores or tries to contort the Bible to say that God approves of homosexuality then he is ignorant and likely willfully deceived.
 

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
34,951
Reaction score
16,310
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
Or willfully deceived as are many Christians that want to go with the world, reject truth, and approve of homosexuality. Doesn't matter what they think, when stacked with Biblical truth they are wrong, and the majority of the time their conclusion is based on selfish motives because they want homosexuality to not be a sin (and one person's beliefs/wants does not change those of God's). If he professes to be a Bible believing Christian yet ignores or tries to contort the Bible to say that God approves of homosexuality then he is ignorant and likely willfully deceived.
Who decides "biblical truth"? Hasnt "biblical truth" evolved overtime? Example biblical justification for slavery.. Hebrew theocracy..
 

shrubnose

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
19,463
Reaction score
8,731
Location
Europe
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Read more @ :


I tend to agree. If my God is a God who dislikes someone base on who they are attracted to, and who they love then i would not like to be in that place with a god that is supposedly "all knowing and all loving" .[/INDENT]



Desmond Tutu is a fine human being.

I totally agree with him.

I would rather sit next to him in hell than be in a heaven ruled over by a God who hates some of the people that He made.




"Man has created God in his own image: Intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent." ~ Marie
 

digsbe

Truth will set you free
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
20,224
Reaction score
14,224
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Who decides "biblical truth"? Hasnt "biblical truth" evolved overtime? Example biblical justification for slavery.. Hebrew theocracy..
God decides it, and it's clear in the Bible to those who aren't going to read it with a filter or desire to justify bad behavior.

Also, God did impose a theocratic regime for a purpose, the Jewish people were to be a beacon of truth before the world as those who follow the One True God. God's plan was not to institute that forever but to have it end when Jesus came to earth. Also, slavery in Biblical times is not the same slavery that we have had in recent times, people contracted themselves to be slaves which was largely more so like a butler/servant. Regardless though, those points have no bearing when it comes to the fact that Biblically speaking, homosexual sex is a sin and will be judged by God as a sin, what humans think about it is irrelevant because the law is absolute.
 

spud_meister

Veni, vidi, dormivi!
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
36,161
Reaction score
21,556
Location
Didjabringabeeralong
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
I hope he enjoys his eternal suffering that is so painful we can't imagine it on earth. Hell is no joke.

God judges sin, homosexuality isn't the only sin out there. People that wrongfully divorce, commit adultery, lust, and a myriad of other forms of sexual sin will also be judged for it. Truth of the matter is that we've all sinned and unless we repent we will have to be judged for it which means to be sent to hell for eternity.
That's probably his point. Homosexuality is one sin amongst a myriad that people commit. Giving it prominence is wrong, and as long as homosexuals are chaste, or repent afterwards, they'll get into heaven with every other sinner. To deny them a place of worship is to inhibit their ability to repent, which is why religious discrimination against gays is wrong.
 

apdst

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
133,631
Reaction score
30,926
Location
Bagdad, La.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Yes a bishop is "ignorant". Or maybe he is just a Bishop with an opinion which isnt the churches interpretation.
Or, maybe he's more of a politician than a bishop.
 

apdst

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
133,631
Reaction score
30,926
Location
Bagdad, La.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
That's probably his point. Homosexuality is one sin amongst a myriad that people commit. Giving it prominence is wrong, and as long as homosexuals are chaste, or repent afterwards, they'll get into heaven with every other sinner. To deny them a place of worship is to inhibit their ability to repent, which is why religious discrimination against gays is wrong.
Most churches don't allow adulterers and murderers in the door, either.
 

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
34,951
Reaction score
16,310
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
God decides it, and it's clear in the Bible to those who aren't going to read it with a filter or desire to justify bad behavior.

Also, God did impose a theocratic regime for a purpose, the Jewish people were to be a beacon of truth before the world as those who follow the One True God. God's plan was not to institute that forever but to have it end when Jesus came to earth. Also, slavery in Biblical times is not the same slavery that we have had in recent times, people contracted themselves to be slaves which was largely more so like a butler/servant. Regardless though, those points have no bearing when it comes to the fact that Biblically speaking, homosexual sex is a sin and will be judged by God as a sin, what humans think about it is irrelevant because the law is absolute.
So slaves are kosher(Ephesians 6:4-6, Psalm 123:2, Titus 2:9)? Women not allowed to speak in church(1 Corinthians 14:34)? All rich men are going to hell (Matthew 19:24)? Women shouldnt wear earrings or braid their hair (l Timothy 2:9 )? Tattoos are sin (Leviticus 19:28)? Rape is cool as long as you pay the father and then marry your victim (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)?
 

spud_meister

Veni, vidi, dormivi!
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
36,161
Reaction score
21,556
Location
Didjabringabeeralong
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
Most churches don't allow adulterers and murderers in the door, either.
I think you'll find they do:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery;’ but I say to you, that everyone who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart”

And are you really equating homosexuality and murder?
 

apdst

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
133,631
Reaction score
30,926
Location
Bagdad, La.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
I think you'll find they do:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery;’ but I say to you, that everyone who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart”

And are you really equating homosexuality and murder?
A sin is a sin. You said it yourself.
 

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
34,951
Reaction score
16,310
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
Or, maybe he's more concerned with pushing a political agenda than his faith?
If Tutu is a "politician" therefore then i guess every bishop is then to because they both have views that interact with politics then right?
 

brothern

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
3,774
Reaction score
2,624
Location
Chicago, IL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
So slaves are kosher(Ephesians 6:4-6, Psalm 123:2, Titus 2:9)? Women not allowed to speak in church(1 Corinthians 14:34)? All rich men are going to hell (Matthew 19:24)? Women shouldnt wear earrings or braid their hair (l Timothy 2:9 )? Tattoos are sin (Leviticus 19:28)? Rape is cool as long as you pay the father and then marry your victim (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)?
Don't forget the verses that cost millions of Jews their lives: Matthew 27:24-25 and John 7.
 

Mr. Invisible

A Man Without A Country
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 20, 2010
Messages
5,390
Reaction score
3,694
Location
United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
36,230
Reaction score
8,358
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Desmond Tutu is a fine human being.

I totally agree with him.

I would rather sit next to him in hell than be in a heaven ruled over by a God who hates some of the people that He made.




"Man has created God in his own image: Intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent." ~ Marie
God does not "hate" his creation. He does however hate sin. When people sin they are abandoning God and his teaching. As was pointed out by Digsbe, All sexual morality is sin. Homosexuality is part of that.

I agree that we are not supposed to persecute people, but we are to avoid sin. So while we should not condemn or belittle homosexuals, we must not condone the sin. I would no more condone it than adultery or fornication.
 

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
36,230
Reaction score
8,358
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Fair enough. So churches shouldn't let anyone in because of the Original Sin?
No. If you are repentant and make an attempt to stay away from sin, that is one thing. To openly parade sin as a lifestyle and be totally unrepentant is another.
 

Rainman05

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
10,032
Reaction score
4,964
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

nota bene

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
60,203
Reaction score
32,962
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
A quick question: why does what desmond tutu say matter? He is irrelevant and inconsequential. He doesn't matter.
Wow. And what is your Nobel Prize in? Whether you agree with his opinions or politics, Tutu is a world figure to whom people do listen.
 

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
30,967
Reaction score
34,274
Location
Somewhere in Babylon...
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I hope he enjoys his eternal suffering that is so painful we can't imagine it on earth. Hell is no joke.

God judges sin, homosexuality isn't the only sin out there. People that wrongfully divorce, commit adultery, lust, and a myriad of other forms of sexual sin will also be judged for it. Truth of the matter is that we've all sinned and unless we repent we will have to be judged for it which means to be sent to hell for eternity. Desmond Tutu is ignorant and has no idea the level of suffering that awaits unless they repent.
I like you Digsbe, but Tutu is a better man than you'll ever be.

Your self righteousness towards homosexuality will earn you some flack, for the Jesus I know, looks down upon such things.
 
Top Bottom