Desertion threatens to starve Ukraine’s forces at a crucial time

anatta · Nov 30, 2024

the war has over-taken Ukraine' s society to fuel it and fight it out in trenches day after day. it will be 3 years in February.
Time to make an end/

Desertion threatens to starve Ukraine’s forces at a crucial time

Facing every imaginable shortage, tens of thousands of Ukrainian troops, tired and bereft, have walked away from combat and front-line positions.

www.defensenews.com

More than 100,000 soldiers have been charged under Ukraine’s desertion laws since Russia invaded in February 2022, according to the country’s General Prosecutor’s Office.

Nearly half have gone AWOL in the last year alone, after Kyiv launched an aggressive and controversial mobilization drive that government officials and military commanders concede has largely failed.

It’s a staggeringly high number by any measure, as there were an estimated 300,000 Ukrainian soldiers engaged in combat before the mobilization drive began.

And the actual number of deserters may be much higher. One lawmaker with knowledge of military matters estimated it could be as high as 200,000.

Many deserters don’t return after being granted medical leave. Bone-tired by the constancy of war, they are psychologically and emotionally scarred.
They feel guilt about being unable to summon the will to fight, anger over how the war effort is being led and frustration that it seems unwinnable.

Facing every imaginable shortage, tens of thousands of Ukrainian troops, tired and bereft, have walked away from combat and front-line positions to slide into anonymity, according to soldiers, lawyers and Ukrainian officials. Entire units have abandoned their posts, leaving defensive lines vulnerable and accelerating territorial losses, according to military commanders and soldiers.

Some take medical leave and never return, haunted by the traumas of war and demoralized by bleak prospects for victory. Others clash with commanders and refuse to carry out orders, sometimes in the middle of firefights.

“This problem is critical,” said Oleksandr Kovalenko, a Kyiv-based military analyst. “This is the third year of war, and this problem will only grow.”

Although Moscow has also been dealing with desertions, Ukrainians going AWOL have laid bare deeply rooted problems bedeviling their military and how Kyiv is managing the war, from the flawed mobilization drive to the overstretching and hollowing out of front-line units.
It comes as the U.S. urges Ukraine to draft more troops, and allow for the conscription of those as young as 18.

anatta · Nov 30, 2024

Hnezdilov also left to seek medical help. Before undergoing surgery, he announced he was deserting. He said after five years of military service, he saw no hope of ever being demobilized, despite earlier promises by the country’s leadership.
“If there’s no end term (to military service), it turns into a prison — it becomes psychologically hard to find reasons to defend this country,” Hnezdilov said.
~~~
AP learned of cases in which defensive lines were severely compromised because entire units defied orders and abandoned their positions.

“Because of a lack of political will and poor management of troops, especially in the infantry, we certainly are not moving in a direction to properly defend the territories that we control now,” Hnezdilov said.

Ukraine’s military recorded a deficit of 4,000 troops on the front in September owing largely to deaths, injuries and desertions, according to a lawmaker. Most deserters were among recent recruits.
~~~

“The main thing is that they leave combat positions during hostilities and their comrades die because of it. We had several situations when units fled, small or large. They exposed their flanks, and the enemy came to these flanks and killed their brothers in arms, because those who stood on the positions did not know that there was no one else around,” the official said.

Cosmo · Nov 30, 2024

Why didn't Joe Biden give them more weapons faster? Or at least allowed them to use them indiscriminately and in an unrestricted manner back in 2022?

Loulit01 · Nov 30, 2024

And Russia still can't take Ukraine. How embarrassing for Putin.

Individual · Nov 30, 2024

Cosmo said:
Why didn't Joe Biden give them more weapons faster? Or at least allowed them to use them indiscriminately and in an unrestricted manner back in 2022?

Sounds like they need more troops willing to wield the weapons they've been given.

Cosmo · Nov 30, 2024

Individual said:
Sounds like they need more troops willing to wield the weapons they've been given.

Now, based on the article, maybe. But being hamstrung by Joe since 2022 likely played a big role in increasing their casualties and reducing Russia's.

Individual · Nov 30, 2024

Loulit01 said:
And Russia still can't take Ukraine. How embarrassing for Putin.

I believe Russia occupies all it wants of the Ukraine, and just needs their new border line to be recognized.

Individual · Nov 30, 2024

Cosmo said:
Now, based on the article, maybe. But being hamstrung by Joe since 2022 likely played a big role in increasing their casualties and reducing Russia's.

Would you like to see U.S. troops become engaged in the fight, or shipments of weapons being sent to the Ukraine being attacked while in transit?

Cosmo · Nov 30, 2024

Individual said:
Would you like to see U.S. troops become engaged in the fight, or shipments of weapons being sent to the Ukraine being attacked while in transit?

I wouldn't mind the risk (though I think it's highly unlikely). Belligerents like Nazi Germany and the Russian Federation need to be destroyed quickly, summarily, and without significant concern for collateral damage/their civilian casualties.

Loulit01 · Nov 30, 2024

Individual said:
I believe Russia occupies all it wants of the Ukraine, and just needs their new border line to be recognized.

Nonsense. When the war began Russia launched attacks to take all Ukraine.

Now they may settle for what they have so the embarrassment can end.

Individual · Nov 30, 2024

Loulit01 said:
Nonsense. When the war began Russia launched attacks to take all Ukraine.

Now they may settle for what they have so the embarrassment can end.

IMO, the Ukraine along the Black Sea is all Russia ever wanted.

Individual · Nov 30, 2024

Cosmo said:
I wouldn't mind. Belligerents like Nazi Germany and the Russian Federation need to be destroyed quickly, summarily, and without significant concern for collateral damage/their civilian casualties.

Do you believe the EU would agree, as they would become the dominant battlefield?

Cosmo · Nov 30, 2024

Individual said:
Do you believe the EU would agree, as they would become the dominant battlefield?

The EU countries are welcome to leave NATO and fend for themselves. Should we go back to American isolationism like pre-1941? Or European appeasement like pre-1939?

Individual · Nov 30, 2024

Loulit01 said:
Nonsense. When the war began Russia launched attacks to take all Ukraine.

Now they may settle for what they have so the embarrassment can end.

It's easy to give up what you don't want.

redbeer · Nov 30, 2024

anatta said:
the war has over-taken Ukraine' s society to fuel it and fight it out in trenches day after day. it will be 3 years in February.
Time to make an end/

Desertion threatens to starve Ukraine’s forces at a crucial time

Facing every imaginable shortage, tens of thousands of Ukrainian troops, tired and bereft, have walked away from combat and front-line positions.

www.defensenews.com

More than 100,000 soldiers have been charged under Ukraine’s desertion laws since Russia invaded in February 2022, according to the country’s General Prosecutor’s Office.

Nearly half have gone AWOL in the last year alone, after Kyiv launched an aggressive and controversial mobilization drive that government officials and military commanders concede has largely failed.

It’s a staggeringly high number by any measure, as there were an estimated 300,000 Ukrainian soldiers engaged in combat before the mobilization drive began.

And the actual number of deserters may be much higher. One lawmaker with knowledge of military matters estimated it could be as high as 200,000.

Many deserters don’t return after being granted medical leave. Bone-tired by the constancy of war, they are psychologically and emotionally scarred.
They feel guilt about being unable to summon the will to fight, anger over how the war effort is being led and frustration that it seems unwinnable.

Facing every imaginable shortage, tens of thousands of Ukrainian troops, tired and bereft, have walked away from combat and front-line positions to slide into anonymity, according to soldiers, lawyers and Ukrainian officials. Entire units have abandoned their posts, leaving defensive lines vulnerable and accelerating territorial losses, according to military commanders and soldiers.

Some take medical leave and never return, haunted by the traumas of war and demoralized by bleak prospects for victory. Others clash with commanders and refuse to carry out orders, sometimes in the middle of firefights.

“This problem is critical,” said Oleksandr Kovalenko, a Kyiv-based military analyst. “This is the third year of war, and this problem will only grow.”

Although Moscow has also been dealing with desertions, Ukrainians going AWOL have laid bare deeply rooted problems bedeviling their military and how Kyiv is managing the war, from the flawed mobilization drive to the overstretching and hollowing out of front-line units.
It comes as the U.S. urges Ukraine to draft more troops, and allow for the conscription of those as young as 18.

It truly has been a prime example of how to pro-long a war for profit, instead of military goals. A little here, another over there, not what they need, but to keep it going and going. Never giving them what they actually need to end the war, but to keep it going.

What you are pointing out is a side effect of Biden's bs proxy war......soldiers worn out without having the support and offensive actions they needed all along. It's been nothing but a game of chess, not to gain victory, but for prolonging and keep the profits coming. Truly corrupt scum using the Ukranian people and if anyone objects they're labeled as supporting Putin........good Lord, I can't wait for these lowlifes to be gone.

Loulit01 · Nov 30, 2024

Individual said:
It's easy to give up what you don't want.

Sour grapes.

Individual · Nov 30, 2024

Loulit01 said:
Sour grapes.

Add sugar and yeast and make wine.

Individual · Nov 30, 2024

Cosmo said:
The EU countries are welcome to leave NATO and fend for themselves. Should we go back to American isolationism like pre-1941? Or European appeasement like pre-1939?

Ukraine is not a NATO member, and isolation is not an issue as we like many other countries are providing aid to the Ukraine for defensive purposes. Do you feel a WW III would be a preferable choice? Do you believe the EU and/or NATO members would like to become more engaged in a war with Russia?

Beruit 1978 · Nov 30, 2024

Cosmo said:
Why didn't Joe Biden give them more weapons faster? Or at least allowed them to use them indiscriminately and in an unrestricted manner back in 2022?

How many weapons do you want, and how fast? People seem to be unaware that stockpiles of munitions around the US, around Europe, and in Israel, have been depleted to supply Ukraine. Decades worth of production have been consumed by Ukraine. All the NATO countries have donated their old stock, and in some cases, newer stocks of weapons. Basically all of the Soviet era weaponry in Europe has been used up. All future donations will be more modern weaponry and munitions. Do you propose that all of Europe and the United States be put on a war footing? Maybe the Big Three auto makers should be ordered by Washington to produce combat cars and tank destroyers instead of shiny new cars for your kid's graduation presents? Should we build two or three more plants to produce artillery rounds?

Just tell us, how much do you want, and how fast do you want it? Just be aware that there will be a price. Are you willing to pay it?

Individual said:
IMO, the Ukraine along the Black Sea is all Russia ever wanted.

Agreed. Sure, Russia maneuvered (poorly) to encircle Kiev in the early weeks of the war. That, IMO, was intended to force the issue, rather than actually capture Kiev. Either way, the war would have been over long ago, if the ground commanders hadn't bungled things so badly during the encirclement. What moron puts thirty miles of armor on just one or two highways? Especially in close proximity to some dams that are easily breached? Oh well, no one ever accused the Russians of being the most competent force in the world.

Loulit01 · Nov 30, 2024

Loulit01 said:
Sour grapes.

Individual said:
Add sugar and yeast and make wine.

That makes vinegar, not wine. But still, you shouldn't be as embarrassed as Putin.

Individual · Nov 30, 2024

Loulit01 said:
That makes vinegar, not wine. But still, you shouldn't be as embarrassed as Putin.

First you make wine, then you make vinegar. I have no reason to be embarrassed, but you're free to keep trying.

Loulit01 · Nov 30, 2024

Individual said:
First you make wine, then you make vinegar. I have no reason to be embarrassed, but you're free to keep trying.

Yeah, that's not how it works. There are people who can't be embarrassed because they have no shame. Putin and Trump are two examples. I believe I've found a third.

I'm done here.

anatta · Nov 30, 2024

Beruit 1978 said:
How many weapons do you want, and how fast? People seem to be unaware that stockpiles of munitions around the US, around Europe, and in Israel, have been depleted to supply Ukraine. Decades worth of production have been consumed by Ukraine. All the NATO countries have donated their old stock, and in some cases, newer stocks of weapons. Basically all of the Soviet era weaponry in Europe has been used up. All future donations will be more modern weaponry and munitions. Do you propose that all of Europe and the United States be put on a war footing? Maybe the Big Three auto makers should be ordered by Washington to produce combat cars and tank destroyers instead of shiny new cars for your kid's graduation presents? Should we build two or three more plants to produce artillery rounds?

Just tell us, how much do you want, and how fast do you want it? Just be aware that there will be a price. Are you willing to pay it?

Agreed. Sure, Russia maneuvered (poorly) to encircle Kiev in the early weeks of the war. That, IMO, was intended to force the issue, rather than actually capture Kiev. Either way, the war would have been over long ago, if the ground commanders hadn't bungled things so badly during the encirclement. What moron puts thirty miles of armor on just one or two highways? Especially in close proximity to some dams that are easily breached? Oh well, no one ever accused the Russians of being the most competent force in the world.

what ever it was it's now clearly about attrition, and Ukraine is getting worn down in terms of manpower

noonereal · Nov 30, 2024

anatta said:
the war has over-taken Ukraine' s society to fuel it and fight it out in trenches day after day. it will be 3 years in February.
Time to make an end/

Desertion threatens to starve Ukraine’s forces at a crucial time

Facing every imaginable shortage, tens of thousands of Ukrainian troops, tired and bereft, have walked away from combat and front-line positions.

www.defensenews.com

More than 100,000 soldiers have been charged under Ukraine’s desertion laws since Russia invaded in February 2022, according to the country’s General Prosecutor’s Office.

Nearly half have gone AWOL in the last year alone, after Kyiv launched an aggressive and controversial mobilization drive that government officials and military commanders concede has largely failed.

It’s a staggeringly high number by any measure, as there were an estimated 300,000 Ukrainian soldiers engaged in combat before the mobilization drive began.

And the actual number of deserters may be much higher. One lawmaker with knowledge of military matters estimated it could be as high as 200,000.

Many deserters don’t return after being granted medical leave. Bone-tired by the constancy of war, they are psychologically and emotionally scarred.
They feel guilt about being unable to summon the will to fight, anger over how the war effort is being led and frustration that it seems unwinnable.

Facing every imaginable shortage, tens of thousands of Ukrainian troops, tired and bereft, have walked away from combat and front-line positions to slide into anonymity, according to soldiers, lawyers and Ukrainian officials. Entire units have abandoned their posts, leaving defensive lines vulnerable and accelerating territorial losses, according to military commanders and soldiers.

Some take medical leave and never return, haunted by the traumas of war and demoralized by bleak prospects for victory. Others clash with commanders and refuse to carry out orders, sometimes in the middle of firefights.

“This problem is critical,” said Oleksandr Kovalenko, a Kyiv-based military analyst. “This is the third year of war, and this problem will only grow.”

Although Moscow has also been dealing with desertions, Ukrainians going AWOL have laid bare deeply rooted problems bedeviling their military and how Kyiv is managing the war, from the flawed mobilization drive to the overstretching and hollowing out of front-line units.
It comes as the U.S. urges Ukraine to draft more troops, and allow for the conscription of those as young as 18.

Yep, the Russians and the Ukraine's want to part of Putin's war.

j brown's body · Nov 30, 2024

I wonder if he could get some South Korean troops to pitch in.

Desertion threatens to starve Ukraine’s forces at a crucial time

anatta