Dershowitz: I Don't See Any Crimes in Mueller Memos.

[MovingPictures]

Hint: "all but indicted" says there are not indictments, but that they have clearly said he violated the law.

Why all the dishonesty tonight?

Thank you.

 

[Bucky]

This is why rightwingers aren't concerned that Napolitano isn't falling in line on Trump. They still have Dershowitz so all is well in Trumpland.

He's a hardcore Democrat, lol

 

[MovingPictures]

Where's your evidence?

For one thing, everybody in the Trump camp has insisted that the campaign never reached out to any Russian nationals or Wikileaks during the time where the latter was distributing stolen federal documents from the the DNC.

That has been established as a fantastic lie, as they have been some hundred points of contact between the two camps, and there has been further evidence that the Trump did reach out to determine whether the Russian government had stolen documents related to their political opponents. This was done in an effort to help swing the election in their favor.

The WH has been lying since day one, and there's proof in court.

 

[maxparrish]

Hahahahahaha!!!

Trump supporters are now having to flat out lie.

The amount of PUBLIC evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia has been well-established. The fact you are so willing to post lies about it suggests dishonesty so great it is almost incomprehensible. Hell, just today Mueller filed a memorandum alongside the SDNY about Cohen which clearly shows discussions involving "highly lucrative" projects between Cohen, Trump and Russia, not to mention the fact Cohen discussed with Trump about meeting with Russian officials BEFORE he made the offer to Russian officials.

For God's sake, if you're going to lie, don't be so obvious about it.

Even if one were to accept you characterizations at face value, the "collusion" seems to be little more than exploratory project development in Russia, a perfectly legal form of business research and planning. And, one should note, it has zero relevancy to a question of collusion for purposes of Russia interfering with US elections.

Exactly what "offer" by whom are you speaking of?

 

[MovingPictures]

You seem to be stuck on "they were communicating with Russians" - if one walks up to you and claims he has a hot Rolex, does that mean I get to arrest you because you were communicating with him about a stolen watch?

You gotta be kidding. Do you really think that's a proper analogy?

And the point about the campaign communicating with Wikileaks and Russia is that the Trump WH has lied to the public that it occured at all - much less the near hundred contacts they did have.

Further, if your friend tells you about a truck full of hot Rolexes, and you lie to the cops about knowing about it, you ARE committing an obstruction crime, because you're helping cover for his own crimes.

 

[MovingPictures]

Sorry to break it to YOU, but being implicated does not necessarily lead to actual charges, and charges don't necessarily lead to convictions.

In any case that is a bridge that will not be approached, much less crossed until after Trump leaves office.

Meanwhile, as you already know, MY position is and will always remain INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty in a court of law...and damn the kangaroo Court of Public Opinion. :coffeepap:

Kangaroo court? :lamo

Dude, Trump is on tape confessing to the whole conspiracy, so there's no argument he was in the whole thing and committed a felony.

 

[MovingPictures]

Show you what? Where the SDNY clearly stated "In particular, and as Cohen himself has now admitted, with respect to both payments, he acted in coordination with and at the direction of Individual-1"? It's in the Cohen sentencing memo, page 11.

Try reading it. Or reading any news, since it is being reported everywhere.

You know as well as I do current DOJ guidelines say a sitting President should not be indicted.

Stop with the dishonesty. We know for a fact the FBI has now said Donald Trump committed a felony, even if they have not charged him with it.

Try honesty, thanks.

You know what's great? None of what we say here matters.

What matters is the SDNY has indicted Cohen and has directly implicated the president in a felony. The record of that felony is not going to be forgotten by the DOJ or that courtroom, whether the Congress lets Trump finish his term or not.

Once Trump is a citizen again he will be indicted for this crime.

 

[Slyfox696]

Even if one were to accept you characterizations at face value

They are not "characterizations", they are what the people involved have ADMITTED to. You don't have to take my word for it, George Papadapolous ADMITTED he worked with Russian officials. Michael Cohen ADMITTED he was in regular contact with Russian officials. Don Trump Jr. ADMITTED, via email, sitting with Russian officials to get Clinton dirt. Michael Flynn ADMITTED to work with Russian officials on sanctions. Jeff Sessions ADMITTED to meeting with the Russian spy chief Kisylak.

These are not "characterizations" these are truths from the mouths of those who committed the deeds.

the "collusion" seems to be little more than exploratory project development in Russia

It was way more than that. It was about many things. Money, projects, sanctions, etc.

There are plenty of people who can catch you up on it if you want. Let me know and I'll help you find the information you need.

And, one should note, it has zero relevancy to a question of collusion for purposes of Russia interfering with US elections.

:lol:

This is just a flat out lie. At the same time Trump was working a business deal with Russian oligarchs with Putin's needed approval, Don Jr. was sitting down with Russian government attorneyss knowing that the Russian government supported Trump for the purpose of getting Clinton dirt, a meeting which was about sanctions which just so happened to be discussed by Flynn that November. Oh, and let's not forget Russia actively interfered in the election on Trump's behalf.

It has ALL the relevancy to collusion.

I don't know if you're just ignorant on the facts or dishonestly ignoring them. If it's the former, I'll be more than happy to direct you to some resources to help. If it's the latter, just let me know and I won't waste my time on the lies anymore.

Exactly what "offer" by whom are you speaking of?

Read the SCO's memo on Cohen sentencing, page 4 footnote.

You know what's great? None of what we say here matters.

What matters is the SDNY has indicted Cohen and has directly implicated the president in a felony. The record of that felony is not going to be forgotten by the DOJ or that courtroom, whether the Congress lets Trump finish his term or not.

Once Trump is a citizen again he will be indicted for this crime.

No he won't. Whether it is right or not, unless Trump is forcibly removed (impeachment and conviction) from office, he will not be indicted. Like it or not, he is a President and that is not going to happen.

 

[Hawkeye10]

You know what's great? None of what we say here matters.

What matters is the SDNY has indicted Cohen and has directly implicated the president in a felony. The record of that felony is not going to be forgotten by the DOJ or that courtroom, whether the Congress lets Trump finish his term or not.

Once Trump is a citizen again he will be indicted for this crime.

At the end of the day what matters is the credibility of the justice system, and the government who runs it.

Consent on the governed is required, a government that has lost the people is useless.

Paul Volcker, who is almost dead, has recently been pointing this out.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

Or (as I expect many posts to show) don't listen, since it does not suit the impeachment narrative. :coffeepap:

You can stay in denial as long as you want. I have no interest in pulling you out of it.

I don't remember conservatives asking "Well, is it illegal?" when they felt Hillary lied about Benghazi. I don't remember "Is it illegal?" being asked about the fake Uranium One scandal or the fake IRS scandal.

Now all of a sudden a new standard emerges--Is it illegal? I guess if it's not illegal, it's OK, right?

If Trump survives this, it will be a victory for corrupt politicians. If it's not technically illegal, it's OK as long as you're popular.

 

[trouble13]

Dershowitz: I don't see any crimes in Mueller memos Fox News Published on Dec 7, 2018.




People opposed to the Trump Administration have been commenting and speculating on every anti-Trump news item; from Stormy Daniels and campaign finance violations and vague allegation's of obstruction, through alleged violations of the emoluments clause, to contacts with Russia for plans to build a Trump hotel...all under the canopy of alleged conspiracy with Russia to influence (validate it was stolen) the 2016 election.

Every time some new bit of alleged validation pops up, the opposition cheers and says "This is it! This is what will bring him down!" only to find it isn't quite what they hoped. Yet every bit is still hoarded as ammunition in repetitive arguments whenever something new comes up for how the totality of information shows somehow that Trump should never have been elected President.

Now we have the Cohen, Flynn, and Manafort sentencing recommendation letters/memos, and the Opposition is on yet another campaign claiming "the dots are connected/connecting, we will be vindicated!" again.

Then we hear rational arguments about what is really happening, and maybe it is not so damningly supportive of the resistance efforts after all.

Listen to how Mr. Dershowitz explains (again) how the facts don't necessarily equate to anything much at all. That so far there are no Trump "crimes," and really nothing (so far) that justified the Mueller investigation.

Or (as I expect many posts to show) don't listen, since it does not suit the impeachment narrative. :coffeepap:

To be honest I'm tired of the speculation on both sides. I've tuned all of them out. I will tune back in when charges are actually made and we can hear their case. Until then it's all noise.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Taylor]

For one thing, everybody in the Trump camp has insisted that the campaign never reached out to any Russian nationals or Wikileaks during the time where the latter was distributing stolen federal documents from the the DNC.

That has been established as a fantastic lie, as they have been some hundred points of contact between the two camps, and there has been further evidence that the Trump did reach out to determine whether the Russian government had stolen documents related to their political opponents. This was done in an effort to help swing the election in their favor.

The WH has been lying since day one, and there's proof in court.

If that's the sum total of your evidence - good luck with that.

 

[Hawkeye10]

To be honest I'm tired of the speculation on both sides. I've tuned all of them out. I will tune back in when charges are actually made and we can hear their case. Until then it's all noise.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Keeping in mind of course that justice delayed is justice denied.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Sorry to break it to YOU, but being implicated does not necessarily lead to actual charges, and charges don't necessarily lead to convictions.

In any case that is a bridge that will not be approached, much less crossed until after Trump leaves office.

Meanwhile, as you already know, MY position is and will always remain INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty in a court of law...and damn the kangaroo Court of Public Opinion. :coffeepap:

It is the voters that Trump works for, our opinions as a whole counts big time. And it seems that this is the tipping point in which Trump falls. You can complain about it make up reasons why you think it wont happen, but it has already started.

With all that Trump has said and done since he started campaigning for president, implicated in felonies is enough to break the camals back in public opinion. Dont believe me? I am sure that you do not. But you and I will probably still be here later when Trump has truly fallen and I will be here to remind you.

 

[Hawkeye10]

You can stay in denial as long as you want. I have no interest in pulling you out of it.

I don't remember conservatives asking "Well, is it illegal?" when they felt Hillary lied about Benghazi. I don't remember "Is it illegal?" being asked about the fake Uranium One scandal or the fake IRS scandal.

Now all of a sudden a new standard emerges--Is it illegal? I guess if it's not illegal, it's OK, right?

If Trump survives this, it will be a victory for corrupt politicians. If it's not technically illegal, it's OK as long as you're popular.

Trump is historically unpopular, which is the reason that he is being treated unjustly, because that is how Dark Ages roll.

 

[trouble13]

Keeping in mind of course that justice delayed is justice denied.

Not much I can do about that.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Hawkeye10]

Not much I can do about that.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

You can watch, and you can know when you are being abused, and when you are you can "RESIST!".

Silence is taken as consent.

Dont be silent.

 

[Chomsky]

Dershowitz: I don't see any crimes in Mueller memos Fox News Published on Dec 7, 2018.




People opposed to the Trump Administration have been commenting and speculating on every anti-Trump news item; from Stormy Daniels and campaign finance violations and vague allegation's of obstruction, through alleged violations of the emoluments clause, to contacts with Russia for plans to build a Trump hotel...all under the canopy of alleged conspiracy with Russia to influence (validate it was stolen) the 2016 election.

Every time some new bit of alleged validation pops up, the opposition cheers and says "This is it! This is what will bring him down!" only to find it isn't quite what they hoped. Yet every bit is still hoarded as ammunition in repetitive arguments whenever something new comes up for how the totality of information shows somehow that Trump should never have been elected President.

Now we have the Cohen, Flynn, and Manafort sentencing recommendation letters/memos, and the Opposition is on yet another campaign claiming "the dots are connected/connecting, we will be vindicated!" again.

Then we hear rational arguments about what is really happening, and maybe it is not so damningly supportive of the resistance efforts after all.

Listen to how Mr. Dershowitz explains (again) how the facts don't necessarily equate to anything much at all. That so far there are no Trump "crimes," and really nothing (so far) that justified the Mueller investigation.

Or (as I expect many posts to show) don't listen, since it does not suit the impeachment narrative. :coffeepap:

Interesting. No one here sees two apparent felonies, in Trump's directing Cohen to commit felonies to pay-off his women during the campaign?

SDNY is calling Cohen's actions here illegal, and they are further claiming Trump directed Cohen.

 

[JoanDavis]

More evidence that the entire point is to sit on the man the people elected to be our leader.

Trump is not and never was FAILED INTELLIGENTSIA! DEEP STATE approved.

America really does suck this much now.

SAD

I agree. America really does suck big time. All thanks to the most crooked and disgusting person in the world - trump!!!

 

[Hawkeye10]

Interesting. No one here sees two apparent felonies, in Trump's directing Cohen to commit felonies to pay-off his women during the campaign?

SDNY is calling Cohen's actions here illegal, and they are further claiming Trump directed Cohen.

Where are the people who run our so-called justice system?

See that is always the problem, from any direction their work is looked at it sucks.

 

[JoanDavis]

Show you what? Where the SDNY clearly stated "In particular, and as Cohen himself has now admitted, with respect to both payments, he acted in coordination with and at the direction of Individual-1"? It's in the Cohen sentencing memo, page 11.

Try reading it. Or reading any news, since it is being reported everywhere.

You know as well as I do current DOJ guidelines say a sitting President should not be indicted.

Stop with the dishonesty. We know for a fact the FBI has now said Donald Trump committed a felony, even if they have not charged him with it.

Try honesty, thanks.

trump and the entire republican party believe trump is above the law. They wanted to impeach President Obama because he wore a tan suit. But trump refuses to pay tax, does business with alleged murderers in Russia and Saudi Arabia and urinates all over the US constitution....and the republicans just salute him and give him a big peck on his butt.

 

[JoanDavis]

This is why rightwingers aren't concerned that Napolitano isn't falling in line on Trump. They still have Dershowitz so all is well in Trumpland.

I wonder how much money Dershowitz is making from trump and the russians? There ARE pictures of Dershowitz meeting with the Russian criminals. And trump consides Putin his very best friend.

 

[trouble13]

You can watch, and you can know when you are being abused, and when you are you can "RESIST!".

Silence is taken as consent.

Dont be silent.

I am watching, listening, and talking. So far I've seen plenty to be suspicious about but nothing conclusive.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[trouble13]

Interesting. No one here sees two apparent felonies, in Trump's directing Cohen to commit felonies to pay-off his women during the campaign?

SDNY is calling Cohen's actions here illegal, and they are further claiming Trump directed Cohen.

None of that shows trump knew he was directing someone to commit a crime if it was one. What's missing is Cohen informing him it was s crime and trump telling him to do it anyhow

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Chomsky]

There's plenty of evidence in the public record that establishes the Trump camp was communicating with Russian nationals, and assessing whether they had stolen documents from the state department and DNC.

And beyond the Mueller memo, the SDNY all but indicted Trump in several felonies.

The bolded is a key point. Even if it never comes to charges while he is in office, or perhaps not even any charges at all, the DOJ is claiming the President directed felonious crimes; crimes which came to fruition under his direction.

And the most amazing thing, something I don't believe I've ever heard of, is it was the DOJ - Trump's own government - that accused him. It isn't being done by the Special Counsel, like with Nixon; it's being done by the government. This may be history here, and I find this far more dire than if Mueller would have made the accusation.

With his criminality and obstruction of justice, Trump is ripping the government and the Constitution apart. We're really in a bad place, here.