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Derek Chauvin trial livestream and discussion

Lursa

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State has TO PROVE that the officers knew that Floyd had no pulse.
No it doesnt, source that. They are field officers, everyone knows that...including themselves. If there's a claim of no pulse, what is the prudent action with a restrained and non-resisting suspect? TO HELP THEM. The cops are responsible for the safety of a suspect in their custody.

The state has TO PROVE that their actions were with intent to harm Floyd---even as with the 3rd degree murder charge they don't have to prove they officers intended to murder Floyd.
Read the descriptions of the charges. Intent isnt necessary for Murder 2 or 3.
 

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Chauvin had more street experience than the rest. 2 cops were rookies so they may not even know what could be dangerous. As noted, EMTs have a very different perspective and training than cops, and the other off duty EMT bystander, has already demonstrated she is pretty much a half baked moron by her behavior in court, so I don't give her much weight in this. She may have recognized Floyd's respiratory distress based on her training, but she sure didn't do much about it if SHE REALLY BELIEVED those cops were killing Floyd.

What is left is the other cop (Thou) who had several years of on the job experience, so his perspective I would give more weight to, if he is ever called to offer it. But since he will tried in a seperate trial, he cannot be made to testify.

So, something like this?

"Did you see Officer Chauvin’s knee on Floyd’s neck?" an investigator asked him.

"At some point, yes," Thao replied.

Thao goes on to explain that he didn’t get a good look at where exactly Chauvin was applying pressure on Floyd because, again, his focus was on the crowd.

His body camera footage released on Thursday shows his vantage point, where you can also hear bystanders pleading for the officers to check Floyd’s pulse.


"Was the crowd letting you know there was a change in Mr. Floyd’s disposition?" the investigator asked.

"Yes," Thao said.

"And what were they telling you?" the investigator asked.

"They were saying he wasn’t moving," Thao said.

"Did you have concerns about that?" the investigator replied.

"Umm… I was concerned about the crowd. I would hope the other officers would do their job," Thao replied.

One of the more revealing moments came just as the interview was wrapping up.

"Do you think you could have done something differently to intervene?" the investigator asked.

"I’m under the belief that you can always do something differently on every single call… I guess I would be more observant toward Floyd," Thao said.

Thao also told investigators that he and Chauvin were actually called off halfway to the scene but decided to keep going because he wanted to help the two rookie officers.


Sounds like he's in the world of---wasn't my job. Those guys should have known what they were trained to do.
 
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SkyFox76

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No it doesnt, source that. They are field officers, everyone knows that...including themselves. If there's a claim of no pulse, what is the prudent action with a restrained and non-resisting suspect? TO HELP THEM. The cops are responsible for the safety of a suspect in their custody.

Read the descriptions of the charges. Intent isnt necessary for Murder 2 or 3.

We already know that Kueng stated TWICE he couldn't find a pulse. That's proof enough for the moment they were in. It seems Chavin who took over the scene needed to be told something 3-4 times before it sunk into his head.
 

Court Jester

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No it doesnt, source that. They are field officers, everyone knows that...including themselves. If there's a claim of no pulse, what is the prudent action with a restrained and non-resisting suspect? TO HELP THEM. The cops are responsible for the safety of a suspect in their custody.

Floyd took an overdose of drugs, the officers didn't do that to him.
The officer called for EMTs TWICE, it took the EMT's longer than usual to respond.
Cops aren't doctors, and expecting them to be ER level nurses is silly.
Reality is Floyd probably would have died anyway.


Read the descriptions of the charges. Intent isnt necessary for Murder 2 or 3.

Not prove intent to murder, but they still need to prove INTENT to commit the felony which causes the death.

If Floyd died due an accident that isn't murder 3. If he died due to criminal negligence then that would be manslaughter, the more likely charge a jury may agree to. And the state knew this from the beginning, and why they originally didn't charge the murder 3; they knew it likely to be manslaughter, and knew a jury wouldn't go for murder 2 anyway, but that charge appeased the violent mobs last year,
 

Lursa

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Floyd took an overdose of drugs, the officers didn't do that to him.
The officer called for EMTs TWICE, it took the EMT's longer than usual to respond.
Cops aren't doctors, and expecting them to be ER level nurses is silly.
Reality is Floyd probably would have died anyway.
Almost none of that matters with regards to the charges. And yes the defense is going to try very hard to prove your last sentence...so far, since Chauvin made so many mistakes, intentional or not...it wont matter. It's obvious he had many opportunities to get off of him and render medical aid. Which was also his responsibility. He's still accountable for those 'mistakes' and IMO the jury will hold him so.


Not prove intent to murder, but they still need to prove INTENT to commit the felony which causes the death.
Yes, assault. And they are well on their way to doing so. WIthout testimony from Chauvin from explaining WHY he acted as he did, it's not that hard to see his treatment as punishment or anger.

But if not, Murder 3 only requires a depraved indifference to life. IMO, they've easily got that.

If Floyd died due an accident that isn't murder 3. If he died due to criminal negligence then that would be manslaughter, the more likely charge a jury may agree to. And the state knew this from the beginning, and why they originally didn't charge the murder 3; they knew it likely to be manslaughter, and knew a jury wouldn't go for murder 2 anyway, but that charge appeased the violent mobs last year,
See above. Murder 3 will be a good long sentence.
 

Court Jester

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So, something like this?




Sounds like he's in the world of---wasn't my job. Those guys should have known what they were trained to do.


Don't do drugs is my advice. Expecting Chauvin, Thao, Oprah, or the Easter bunny to save your dumb dope head ass already headed to an early grave is too much to expect. Floyd killed himself, if it didn't happen that day, it would have been another day. Why are people crying over George Floyd? He's just another Rodney King type. And yes, Rodney King finally won his jackpot the same way, drowned while high in a swimming pool.

The truth is that George Floyd was behind the wheel of a car when the first two officers arrived. Floyd stoned out of his mind, clearly DUI. And YES you are considered DUI even parked as long as you are in the drivers seat of a car capable of being driven. So, to my thinking, the police may have intervened from Floyd eventually driving off and killing some innocent person, maybe a child.

I don't give a damn about George Floyd, or anyone of ANY RACE like him. Asking me to be angry at Officer Thao---sorry, just don't have a reason to.
 

Lursa

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Not prove intent to murder, but they still need to prove INTENT to commit the felony which causes the death.
IMO this pic leads the way in taking Chauvin down. Does he look worried about the crowd there? No.

That look says, "This ****er wants to be a pain in the ass? I'll show him a pain in the ass."

View attachment 67327030
 

SkyFox76

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Don't do drugs is my advice. Expecting Chauvin, Thao, Oprah, or the Easter bunny to save your dumb dope head ass already headed to an early grave is too much to expect. Floyd killed himself, if it didn't happen that day, it would have been another day. Why are people crying over George Floyd? He's just another Rodney King type. And yes, Rodney King finally won his jackpot the same way, drowned while high in a swimming pool.

The truth is that George Floyd was behind the wheel of a car when the first two officers arrived. Floyd stoned out of his mind, clearly DUI. And YES you are considered DUI even parked as long as you are in the drivers seat of a car capable of being driven. So, to my thinking, the police may have intervened from Floyd eventually driving off and killing some innocent person, maybe a child.

I don't give a damn about George Floyd, or anyone of ANY RACE like him. Asking me to be angry at Officer Thao---sorry, just don't have a reason to.

Ahhh so you're finally sitting down the goalposts. Good. For someone that doesn't give a damn you sure spent time arguing false points.

(y)
 

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Almost none of that matters with regards to the charges. And yes the defense is going to try very hard to prove your last sentence...so far, since Chauvin made so many mistakes, intentional or not...it wont matter. It's obvious he had many opportunities to get off of him and render medical aid. Which was also his responsibility. He's still accountable for those 'mistakes' and IMO the jury will hold him so.

Not true, courts have said the police are under no obligation to protect anyone. Chauvin was holding GF down until EMTs arrived. The state will not be able to prove Chauvin killed Floyd.

Yes, assault. And they are well on their way to doing so. WIthout testimony from Chauvin from explaining WHY he acted as he did, it's not that hard to see his treatment as punishment or anger.

EXPERTS for the state have already admitted that the prone hold with a knee is one of several techniques officer are trained to do. So, at what point did go from an allowable technique to assault is the million dollar question>

But if not, Murder 3 only requires a depraved indifference to life. IMO, they've easily got that.

NO, a "depraved indifference" would not have included officers taking Floyd out of the car when it was clear he was having a drug induced episode. "Depraved indifference" would not have included them calling EMT's and then 90 seconds later upping the call to code three. Depraved indifference would have been just stuffing Floyd into the car and letting him wig out and harm himself, or die of overdose in the squad car. But that happens too, and when it does then the city is sued for not doing enough when it goes that way too.


See above. Murder 3 will be a good long sentence.

Who knows what a jury may decide, but I can guarantee you this: loser dope head George Floyd will be responsible for more deaths, more carnage, more grief for the most vulnerable poor neighborhoods of color as more and more cops will no longer bother to even try to make a difference in crime in those places. The chilling effect of all of these incidents going back to Fergeson and beyond, does not affect the nice safe White gated communities where people like me live; cops here are happy to respond, happy to make a difference, happy to protect and serve. I just feel sorry for poor working class people of color surrounded by scum who will have nobody to call for help going forward. Mabye they should just go like Portland and Seattle and let the nuts and thugs run their cities?
 

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Not true, courts have said the police are under no obligation to protect anyone. Chauvin was holding GF down until EMTs arrived. The state will not be able to prove Chauvin killed Floyd.



EXPERTS for the state have already admitted that the prone hold with a knee is one of several techniques officer are trained to do. So, at what point did go from an allowable technique to assault is the million dollar question>



NO, a "depraved indifference" would not have included officers taking Floyd out of the car when it was clear he was having a drug induced episode. "Depraved indifference" would not have included them calling EMT's and then 90 seconds later upping the call to code three. Depraved indifference would have been just stuffing Floyd into the car and letting him wig out and harm himself, or die of overdose in the squad car. But that happens too, and when it does then the city is sued for not doing enough when it goes that way too.




Who knows what a jury may decide, but I can guarantee you this: loser dope head George Floyd will be responsible for more deaths, more carnage, more grief for the most vulnerable poor neighborhoods of color as more and more cops will no longer bother to even try to make a difference in crime in those places. The chilling effect of all of these incidents going back to Fergeson and beyond, does not affect the nice safe White gated communities where people like me live; cops here are happy to respond, happy to make a difference, happy to protect and serve. I just feel sorry for poor working class people of color surrounded by scum who will have nobody to call for help going forward. Mabye they should just go like Portland and Seattle and let the nuts and thugs run their cities?

Dept policy is--render aide to people in their custody. And guess who was in Chauvin's custody? First initials GF.
 

Lursa

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Not true, courts have said the police are under no obligation to protect anyone. Chauvin was holding GF down until EMTs arrived. The state will not be able to prove Chauvin killed Floyd.
I cannot believe you dont see the distinction here.

This isnt about protecting the public...this is about being responsible for a suspect in your custody. THey are 2 distinct things.

And I'm pretty sure they'll prove it easily. Not one of the ME reports says that drugs were a 'contributing factor' to the COD. THey were just listed along with the other significant medical conditions. Every single one said it was homicide, not suicide or accident.

EXPERTS for the state have already admitted that the prone hold with a knee is one of several techniques officer are trained to do. So, at what point did go from an allowable technique to assault is the million dollar question>
If you were listening, they all agreed he was wrong there "in his application". And they have the training materials, signed by Chauvin, that specify the correct way to do it. I'm sure the defense will present something to try and dispute that but in the long run, nothing will be able to erase that whatever his methodolgy, he completely ignored the condition of the suspect. And he wont be able to deny it, since many brought it to his attention, including his fellow cops. "No pulse?" Twice? that's on the video and he acknowledged it. Every single expert said he was wrong to continue once the suspect was no longer resisting. Much less non-responsive!

NO, a "depraved indifference" would not have included officers taking Floyd out of the car when it was clear he was having a drug induced episode. "Depraved indifference" would not have included them calling EMT's and then 90 seconds later upping the call to code three. Depraved indifference would have been just stuffing Floyd into the car and letting him wig out and harm himself, or die of overdose in the squad car. But that happens too, and when it does then the city is sued for not doing enough when it goes that way too.
Not sure why you think ANY of that is relevant. It's not. There are no 'murder charges' associated with those actions. It is however, demonstrated clearly in the final restraint where Chauvin ignored ALL signs and information telling him that GF was in medical distress. And it's observable to all in the video. I posted a particular famous picture that spells it out clearly.

Who knows what a jury may decide, but I can guarantee you this: loser dope head George Floyd will be responsible for more deaths, more carnage, more grief for the most vulnerable poor neighborhoods of color as more and more cops will no longer bother to even try to make a difference in crime in those places. The chilling effect of all of these incidents going back to Fergeson and beyond, does not affect the nice safe White gated communities where people like me live; cops here are happy to respond, happy to make a difference, happy to protect and serve. I just feel sorry for poor working class people of color surrounded by scum who will have nobody to call for help going forward. Mabye they should just go like Portland and Seattle and let the nuts and thugs run their cities?
This is all your feelings and resentment against GF. Who cares? I'm not remotely sticking up for him as a person...only as a victim THAT DAY. Because that could be any person, esp. a person of color...innocent or guilty, healthy or with a medical condition. God forbid a cop like Chauvin executes them by his or her depraved indifference.

The fact that you keep posting that sort of thing shows you cannot separate your feelings and opinion from the actual facts of the case in front of the jury.
 
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Tettsuo

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Quick question, since I haven't been fully following the case.

Why was GF arrested in the first place? Trying to pass a fake twenty dollar bill isn't an arrest-able offense (or am I wrong about that?).
 

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Quick question, since I haven't been fully following the case.

Why was GF arrested in the first place? Trying to pass a fake twenty dollar bill isn't an arrest-able offense (or am I wrong about that?).
It is if you resist the interaction from the start. Cooperate and you may not be arrested. There's also the fact he was behind the wheel while intoxicated, failing to follow police commands to show his hands, active and passive resistance to arrest, and possession of controlled substances.
 

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State of Minnesota vs Derek Chauvin, day 9

Current stream, with dramatic waiting music:
 

ASHES

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Washington Post stream link or :


Movement in the courtroom, should be starting in the next 10 minutes or so.
 

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On the record no jury, Defense making a motion. State is going to start calling their experts, who rely on Dr. Baker's autopsy. As long as they call Dr. Baker to provide foundation they have no objection to the experts.
 

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First witness, Dr. Martin Tobin.
Screenshot_20210408-102036.png
Pulmonary and critical care doctor at a Chicago hospital. Specializes in pulmonology and critical care. Pulmonology is the study and treatment of the entire respiratory system. Been a Dr 45 years, got his degree in Dublin. Originally from rural Ireland. Currently licensed in IL.

Says the primary problem Floyd had was obstruction of the hypopharynx, at the back of the throat.

He wrote a big book the Lancet calls "the Bible on ventilation." Also published in many respectable peer reviewed journals.
Screenshot_20210408-102857.png
 
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JANFU

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First witness, Dr. Martin Tobin.
View attachment 67327402
Pulmonary and critical care doctor at a Chicago hospital. Specializes in pulmonology and critical care. Pulmonology is the study and treatment of the entire respiratory system. Been a Dr 45 years, got his degree in Dublin. Originally from rural Ireland. Currently licensed in IL.

Says the primary problem Floyd had was obstruction of the hypopharynx, at the back of the throat.

He wrote a big book the Lancet calls "the Bible on ventilation." Also published in many respectable peer reviewed journals.
View attachment 67327404
Highly qualified
 

ASHES

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Served as an expert in many medical malpractice suits on both sides, never in a criminal case. Been in court about 50 times. He is not being paid to appear on this case. He thought he had knowledge that would be helpful in determining how Floyd died, and he offered to do it free of charge when asked by the state.

It is his expert opinion Floyd died from lack of oxygen to the brain, which caused PGM and caused his heart to stop beating. Doesn't think calling it asphyxia is helpful, hypoxia is more accurate, it all just means low oxygen.

His opinion of the cause of the low level of oxygen was shallow breathing.

Says the main forces that led to his shallow breathing were the prone position, in handcuffs, with the weight of both knees.
Screenshot_20210408-103923.pngScreenshot_20210408-103929.pngScreenshot_20210408-103941.png
 
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I have not seen any evidence presented of drug tolerance. I do not know if it is possible to build a tolerance to fentanyl, and I don't know if there is such thing as a tolerance to stress to your heart from meth.
We also have no idea of the possible drug interactions between fentanyl and and rigid quality control of the drain cleaner used in making the meth.
 

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Snapshot in time, based on the videos, looked at from different angles.
Screenshot_20210408-104440.pngScreenshot_20210408-104537.pngScreenshot_20210408-104548.png
 

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Screenshot_20210408-104552.pngScreenshot_20210408-104611.png

"Focused on the first 5 minutes because that is when we first see evidence of brain injury."
 

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The 4 important factors the witness considers responsible for the shallow breathing.
Screenshot_20210408-104918.png
 

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One thing Dr. Tobin's testimony might poke a hole in is the concept that 'if a person can talk, they can breath'. A person being able to gasp out words may still be shallow breathing, which over time can cause their death.
 

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Says Floyd's left side was like being in a vise, between the street on the bottom, and the force on top of him.

Defense objects to exhibit 951, a picture, sidebar.

Objection sustained.

The Dr. observed the hands and handcuffs being forced high into his chest, against the street, made exerting his diaphragm difficult.

The knees had the same effect from the other side. Demonstrating what he means with a body cam video.
Screenshot_20210408-105942.pngScreenshot_20210408-110217.png
Screenshot_20210408-110443.png
 
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