Derek Chauvin trial livestream and discussion

[SkyFox76]

It isn't "sudden". They've been here since the incident occurred. You're just seeing it happen now in front of the backdrop of the trial.

Well yeah I know they've filtered through, but today it's like a boat of misinformed docked.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

Then show us the injuries from the ME report. Show us testimony from the man that was speaking with Floyd as they were trying to get him in the vehicle. Your talk is cheap and baseless. I'm in no way the size of Floyd and I can wiggle in the drivers seat of my Grand Cherokee and the vehicle moves.

So go ahead and prove your claims. It's already been entered in the testimony. No need to guess. Start at the bottom of pg 7 under EVIDENCE OF INJURY. We'll wait.

https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf

I mean if you are willing to ignore blood in the backseat and all the bodycam footage not being released then kudos to choosing to be blind.

 

[Binary_Digit]

I mean if you are willing to ignore blood in the backseat and all the bodycam footage not being released then kudos to choosing to be blind.

Officer Lane's body cam video shows that Floyd freaked out pretty hard once inside the vehicle. Both times. It's not a stretch to think it's more likely that at some point he gave himself a fat & bloody lip while squirming around.

WCCO | CBS Minnesota - Breaking News, NEXT Weather, and Community Journalism, Minneapolis-St. Paul

Latest breaking news from WCCO, the Twin Cities and Minnesota.

minnesota.cbslocal.com

 

[SkyFox76]

I mean if you are willing to ignore blood in the backseat and all the bodycam footage not being released then kudos to choosing to be blind.

Dude, you're flailing around even worse now. The body cam footage from ALL the officers has been shown in court. The cameras on the two buildings match up with what we see on the body cams. Do you seriously think that the state is holding back bodycam footage that would MAKE their case easier? Think about that stupid claim.

And no I'm not ignoring the blood. I'm just not running around out in the weeds making statements that isn't backed by video, testimony and the autopsy. Maybe you'd be better off talking about the multiple abrasions that he had on his head and shoulders. Those are actually on the report.

But again, SHOW us one single thing other than a "moving vehicle" to back up your claims Floyd was beat while in the vehicle. You can't and most of us that have been watching this case and the actual trial know you can't.

 

[Court Jester]

BIngo! And junkies will KILL everyone they know rather than go back to jail given the chance. Steal a cops gun, and shoot him to get away.

I've had MANY street fights in my life, and it isn't like the movies. Unless you are Mohammed Ali, you will become exhausted inside of 2 minutes in most fights, so you had better win, and win quickly. and that means MORE FORCE than the other guy. He gets you down, he gets over on you, and he may kill you.

This is absolute nonsense.

Do you have a lot of experience with junkies? I actually do.

 

[Court Jester]

I'm not talking about what cops were heard saying, I'm asking if the EMTs testified they felt threatened by the crowd. Did they? If they didnt, I call BS on any such claim. (none of the rest of your post makes a difference. If the EMTs "perceived" they were in danger, did they say so under oath?)

And yet as already testified to by several EMTs is the fact that they do not, and WILL NOT, proceed to an incident until AFTER the police have confirmed it safe to do so. They will wait nearby until police say to come in. But that can change at ANY MOMENT, and EMT's have testified that this why THEY elected to move Floyd a few blocks away from the scene before they attempted to work on him.

So which is it? They didn't feel threatened after they were given "code 4" to come in? Or out of an abundance of caution they WASTED TIME before helping GF until they felt safe a few block away? Can it really be both?

One thing is certain, and that is EMTs will not ever have the same experiences, or considerations about potential CRIMINAL threats as cops may. The cops... as the "experts" have testified, have a duty to protect themselves, their partners, the suspect, other citizens, AND the FIRE/EMT's on scene---- including protecting any evidence after the emergency is concluded. A much larger field of view than EMTs need to have. They are only there for the patient... well, and entitled to feel safe as well.

The EMTs who arrived where not there to see George Floyd going ape shit in the car and THREE officers unable to get him to stay in the car.

 

[ASHES]

And yet as already testified to by several EMTs is the fact that they do not, and WILL NOT, proceed to an incident until AFTER the police have confirmed it safe to do so. They will wait nearby until police say to come in. But that can change at ANY MOMENT, and EMT's have testified that this why THEY elected to move Floyd a few blocks away from the scene before they attempted to work on him.

So which is it? They didn't feel threatened after they were given "code 4" to come in? Or out of an abundance of caution they WASTED TIME before helping GF until they felt safe a few block away.

On thing is certain, and that is EMTs will not ever have the same experiences, or considerations about potential CRIMINAL threats as cops may. The cops as the "experts" have testified have a duty to protect themselves, their partners, the suspect, other citizens, AND the FIRE/EMT's on scene---- including protecting any evidence after the emergency is concluded. A much larger field of view than EMTs need to have. They are only there for the patient... well, and entitled to feel safe as well.

The EMTs who arrived where not there to see George Floyd going ape shit in the car and THREE officers unable to get him to stay in the car.

The EMT's were code 3 half the way, went to the wrong location, went to the right location, the scene had already been called code 4.

 

[SkyFox76]

And yet as already testified to by several EMTs is the fact that they do not, and WILL NOT, proceed to an incident until AFTER the police have confirmed it safe to do so. They will wait nearby until police say to come in. But that can change at ANY MOMENT, and EMT's have testified that this why THEY elected to move Floyd a few blocks away from the scene before they attempted to work on him.

So which is it? They didn't feel threatened after they were given "code 4" to come in? Or out of an abundance of caution they WASTED TIME before helping GF until they felt safe a few block away? Can it really be both?

One thing is certain, and that is EMTs will not ever have the same experiences, or considerations about potential CRIMINAL threats as cops may. The cops... as the "experts" have testified, have a duty to protect themselves, their partners, the suspect, other citizens, AND the FIRE/EMT's on scene---- including protecting any evidence after the emergency is concluded. A much larger field of view than EMTs need to have. They are only there for the patient... well, and entitled to feel safe as well.

The EMTs who arrived where not there to see George Floyd going ape shit in the car and THREE officers unable to get him to stay in the car.

Nope but they were there to see an unconscious dead (their words) man still being restrained. They were there to have to ASK Chauvin to get his ass off Floyd so they could load him. At the moment they arrived they had no idea why the witnesses were vocal and loud. Had they had the ability to see that, they might have understood the crowd was screaming for someone to help Floyd. They were a welcome relief to those people.

 

[Lursa]

And yet as already testified to by several EMTs is the fact that they do not, and WILL NOT, proceed to an incident until AFTER the police have confirmed it safe to do so. They will wait nearby until police say to come in. But that can change at ANY MOMENT, and EMT's have testified that this why THEY elected to move Floyd a few blocks away from the scene before they attempted to work on him.

So which is it? They didn't feel threatened after they were given "code 4" to come in? Or out of an abundance of caution they WASTED TIME before helping GF until they felt safe a few block away? Can it really be both?

One thing is certain, and that is EMTs will not ever have the same experiences, or considerations about potential CRIMINAL threats as cops may. The cops... as the "experts" have testified, have a duty to protect themselves, their partners, the suspect, other citizens, AND the FIRE/EMT's on scene---- including protecting any evidence after the emergency is concluded. A much larger field of view than EMTs need to have. They are only there for the patient... well, and entitled to feel safe as well.

The EMTs who arrived where not there to see George Floyd going ape shit in the car and THREE officers unable to get him to stay in the car.

Little of that is relevant to the trial. What matters is that:

a) Chauvin violated police procedure in administering that hold in at least 2 different ways and that's in testimony from a minimum of 4 police and use of force experts now. (2 ways I remember: he kept up the restraint after GF stopped resisting and positioning GF on his stomach.) They also showed the training documents that have the procedure written out.

b) Chauvin kept up his position on GF after one of his fellow cops told him twice that GF had no pulse (and was acknowledge). The cops could have rendered CPR or other aid. But...nope.

c) when the EMTs did arrive, they are on record saying they had to ask Chauvin 3 times to get off GF while they stood there with the gurney. THere are pics of them standing there, with gurney, beside GF & Chauvin. IMO they are very powerful.

 

[Court Jester]

The EMT's were code 3 half the way, went to the wrong location, went to the right location, the scene had already been called code 4.

They clearly wasted a lot of time, and clearly why Chauvin kept Floyd prone for so long. But my point was that the EMTs will have a different perspective on possible danger (criminal potential) than most cops will.

 

[SkyFox76]

The EMT's were code 3 half the way, went to the wrong location, went to the right location, the scene had already been called code 4.

So the first paramedics got wrong location too? I knew "some" paramedics got there, and Floyd had already been taken and the scene had kind of cleared. One of the paramedics spoke with the off duty firefighter who explained and then they talked to one of LE. Or are those all mixed together somehow?

 

[Lursa]

They clearly wasted a lot of time, and clearly why Chauvin kept Floyd prone for so long. But my point was that the EMTs will have a different perspective on possible danger (criminal potential) than most cops will.

It's not "clearly" anything and it's no excuse for keeping a non-resisting suspect under that amount of improper restraint.

 

[ASHES]

So the first paramedics got wrong location too? I knew "some" paramedics got there, and Floyd had already been taken and the scene had kind of cleared. One of the paramedics spoke with the off duty firefighter who explained and then they talked to one of LE. Or are those all mixed together somehow?

I meant the first 2 paramedics with the ambulance that took Floyd, they were talking about why the response time was so long, think it was mentioned they went to the wrong location first. Code 4 being called for the paramedics just meant suspect was in custody, there was no danger to the paramedics.

 

[Court Jester]

Nope but they were there to see an unconscious dead (their words) man still being restrained.

Question will certainly be that the cops may not have known that at the time. Being Floyd had injested drugs just prior to being arrested, and SAID SO to the cops; they may have just figured he had passed out finally for the overdose. Even as they still restrained him while waiting for the EMTs.

They were there to have to ASK Chauvin to get his ass off Floyd so they could load him.

And the defense will argue, and show evidence, that the police were concerned about Floyd potentially becoming physical and potentially violent again.

At the moment they arrived they had no idea why the witnesses were vocal and loud.

Witnesses and bystanders DON'T MATTER in incidents like these. Police and/or EMTs to do not do their jobs operating by "committee".

Had they had the ability to see that, they might have understood the crowd was screaming for someone to help Floyd.

Earlier on one bystander was screaming at Floyd to stop resisting and to calm down.
Earlier on (before most bystanders where there too) Floyd was actively resisting the police to the level which three cops had trouble moving him
Earlier on one officer had to pull his gun on George Floyd as Floyd was wigging out and refusing to comply to show both hands.

But they didn't see all of that part too, did they?

They [EMTs] were a welcome relief to those people.

Be honest, those same cop hating citizens would have been screaming at the cops even if GF was sitting on the curb in handcuffs. And that is part of the problem. One large part of our society offering excuses for criminal culture and blaming everything on the police.

 

[ASHES]

They clearly wasted a lot of time, and clearly why Chauvin kept Floyd prone for so long. But my point was that the EMTs will have a different perspective on possible danger (criminal potential) than most cops will.

Chauvin was the only one among 6 other first responders at the scene that thought there was any danger once the paramedics arrived.

 

[SkyFox76]

Little of that is relevant to the trial. What matters is that:

a) Chauvin violated police procedure in administering that hold in at least 2 different ways and that's in testimony from a minimum of 4 police and use of force experts now. (2 ways I remember: he kept up the restraint after GF stopped resisting and positioning GF on his stomach.) They also showed the training documents that have the procedure written out.

b) Chauvin kept up his position on GF after one of his fellow cops told him twice that GF had no pulse (and was acknowledge). The cops could have rendered CPR or other aid. But...nope.

c) when the EMTs did arrive, they are on record saying they had to ask Chauvin 3 times to get off GF while they stood there with the gurney. THere are pics of them standing there, with gurney, beside GF & Chauvin. IMO they are very powerful.

Don't forget Lane asked Chauvin point blank---should Floyd be turned on his side. AND brings up the excited delirium. Chauvin says nope.

I'm semi torn on the charges the two rookies should face. I mean they KNEW what was going on wasn't right, but they chose their career over a man's life. Which they lost anyway. (job wise) I wonder if they hold the guilt the witnesses do.

 

[SkyFox76]

Question will certainly be that the cops may not have known that at the time. Being Floyd had injested drugs just prior to being arrested, and SAID SO to the cops; they may have just figured he had passed out finally for the overdose. Even as they still restrained him while waiting for the EMTs.

And the defense will argue, and show evidence, that the police were concerned about Floyd potentially becoming physical and potentially violent again.

Witnesses and bystanders DON'T MATTER in incidents like these. Police and/or EMTs to do not do their jobs operating by "committee".

Earlier on one bystander was screaming at Floyd to stop resisting and to calm down.
Earlier on (before most bystanders where there too) Floyd was actively resisting the police to the level which three cops had trouble moving him
Earlier on one officer had to pull his gun on George Floyd as Floyd was wigging out and refusing to comply to show both hands.

But they didn't see all of that part too, did they?

Be honest, those same cop hating citizens would have been screaming at the cops even if GF was sitting on the curb in handcuffs. And that is part of the problem. One large part of our society offering excuses for criminal culture and blaming everything on the police.

Yes because people with NO PULSE tend to just jump up ready to take on the world.

I've already said prior that once the arrest started? They had the right to have him under control. They had the right to try and put him in the car. They had the right to pull him out the other side and restrain him. They were working with their training UNTIL the man repeated over and over and over he couldn't breath. UNTIL he fell silent and was no longer moving. UNTIL he was checked TWICE for a pulse had DIDN'T have one. Tjhe defense can argue all they want that a dead man needs to be restrained because he might miraculously become physical and potentially violent again.

 

[Court Jester]

Chauvin was the only one among 6 other first responders at the scene that thought there was any danger once the paramedics arrived.

Chauvin had more street experience than the rest. 2 cops were rookies so they may not even know what could be dangerous. As noted, EMTs have a very different perspective and training than cops, and the other off duty EMT bystander, has already demonstrated she is pretty much a half baked moron by her behavior in court, so I don't give her much weight in this. She may have recognized Floyd's respiratory distress based on her training, but she sure didn't do much about it if SHE REALLY BELIEVED those cops were killing Floyd.

What is left is the other cop (Thou) who had several years of on the job experience, so his perspective I would give more weight to, if he is ever called to offer it. But since he will tried in a seperate trial, he cannot be made to testify.

 

[SkyFox76]

I meant the first 2 paramedics with the ambulance that took Floyd, they were talking about why the response time was so long, think it was mentioned they went to the wrong location first. Code 4 being called for the paramedics just meant suspect was in custody, there was no danger to the paramedics.

Okay I got it figured out. It was the firefighters that arrived after Floyd had already been picked up from the scene.

A 10-minute video broadcast live on Facebook captured the moments that led up to Floyd’s death. Officer Derek Chauvin is seen kneeling on Floyd’s neck while he lies face down, handcuffed, and pleading that he can’t breathe. Minutes later, Floyd goes limp and appears to lose consciousness. Hennepin EMS then arrive six minutes after the distress call.

Civilian footage shows a medical worker touching Floyd’s head as Chauvin remains on top of him. Paramedics and officers eventually flip Floyd over, load him on a gurney and into the ambulance while he was still handcuffed. Once inside, a responder freed his hands.

The decision to “load and go,” rather than triage at the scene, was likely based on their race against the clock, Scheerer said. Unloading all the equipment can often take much longer than treating a patient from inside the ambulance.

When pressed about a potential duty to intervene if a patient is endangered on a call, Scheerer surmised that, in this case, responders were unaware of how severe the situation had become.

“I don’t think the paramedics knew what was going on. They just saw a split second of what was happening,” he said in reference to Chauvin’s prolonged knee restraint on Floyd’s neck. “Ultimately, if the police have somebody in custody, we have to get permission from them to work with on the patient.”

Fire Engine 17 arrived without lights and sirens just after the ambulance pulled away. The initial call started as a Code 2 to assist EMS on a scene, not the more urgent Code 3, indicating a life-threatening situation. Preliminary information given to firefighters said only that Floyd had “trauma to his mouth,” according to an incident report.

Upon arrival, firefighters attempting to locate their patient were told by those gathered that police “had killed the man,” the report says. “Bystanders were upset but not unruly.”

The crew found an off-duty firefighter who reported witnessing the end of the struggle and watched as Floyd turned unresponsive in police custody. Dispatch notified firefighters that medics who just left the scene needed assistance, so they moved a few blocks away to meet up with the ambulance.

Two firefighters entered the rig as a medic was performing chest compressions on Floyd. They assisted getting IV and medications prepared as the paramedic continued to search for a pulse, the report said.

“When someone is not breathing, every second counts,” said Mark Lakosky, president of Minneapolis Fire Local 82. His personnel are trained that someone can suffer brain damage in as little as four minutes without oxygen.

While en route to HCMC, EMS workers radioed ahead that they had picked up Floyd and were incoming.

“I’ve got a red medical, we’ll be there in approximately six minutes,” a medic relayed, according to emergency dispatch audio. “Thirties, male, was being detained by PD … was on a … was a cardiac arrest upon EMS arrival, apparently doing CPR, getting access, getting vitals, bagging, calling ACLS [advanced cardiovascular life support], we’ll be there in six minutes, red medical, COVID symptoms are unknown.”

Dispatch recordings: George Floyd was in cardiac arrest when EMS arrived

Hennepin Healthcare EMS Chief Marty Scheerer said he believes paramedics did everything right but may not have initially known the severity of Floyd's condition

www.ems1.com

 

[TheDoctorWasIn]

Do you have a lot of experience with junkies? I actually do.

Yes, quite a lot.

 

[SkyFox76]

Chauvin had more street experience than the rest. 2 cops were rookies so they may not even know what could be dangerous. As noted, EMTs have a very different perspective and training than cops, and the other off duty EMT bystander, has already demonstrated she is pretty much a half baked moron by her behavior in court, so I don't give her much weight in this. She may have recognized Floyd's respiratory distress based on her training, but she sure didn't do much about it if SHE REALLY BELIEVED those cops were killing Floyd.

What is left is the other cop (Thou) who had several years of on the job experience, so his perspective I would give more weight to, if he is ever called to offer it. But since he will tried in a seperate trial, he cannot be made to testify.

Seriously?

 

[Court Jester]

Yes because people with NO PULSE tend to just jump up ready to take on the world.

State has TO PROVE that the officers knew that Floyd had no pulse. The state has TO PROVE that their actions were with intent to harm Floyd---even as with the 3rd degree murder charge they don't have to prove they officers intended to murder Floyd.

I've already said prior that once the arrest started? They had the right to have him under control. They had the right to try and put him in the car. They had the right to pull him out the other side and restrain him.[/quote]

All fine, but as noted, they COULD NOT overcome Floyd's strength to keep Floyd in the car. So that alone changed things down stream. Floyd was in fact resisting.

They were working with their training UNTIL the man repeated over and over and over he couldn't breath.

Floyd was saying that when he was in the car and BEFORE the police had applied much force. And besides, if cops were required to change their tactics, or to STOP an arrest or detention of an already non compliant and violenttly resisting subject as soon as that subject claims some medical issue, no cop anywhere could arrest anyone.

UNTIL he fell silent and was no longer moving.

When you fall asleep you are silent and not moving. You think Floyd would be the first junkie, or the first wino that fell asleep/passed out in front of the police? Are you aware the PRIOR to the police being on scene, Floyd's co criminal buddies could NOT wake Floyd up in the car?

Floyd was high and out of his mind. How about this: maybe the cops just thought Floyd was passed out due to his own drug overdose? They had already called EMTs. Mabye they weren't trying to kill him, maybe just wait for the ambulance to get there?

UNTIL he was checked TWICE for a pulse had DIDN'T have one.

Cops aren't doctors. And BTW, EMTs (medical techs) aren't paramedics, and aren't nurses, and aren't doctors either.

Tjhe defense can argue all they want that a dead man needs to be restrained because he might miraculously become physical and potentially violent again.

Guess you haven't paid much attention to police tactics and policy, but the cops could put 30 bullets into a suspect who had given them reason to be shot, and policy still requires them to handcuff that bleeding corpse until someone else declares them dead, or safe to be uncuffed.

 

[Court Jester]

Yes, quite a lot.

Me too. And from my experience it was dealing with them and their violent behavior, or threats of violent behavior, or the fact that most are armed with something, not limited to just a needle.

To this day, I will NOT allow a street person to even approach me. I will generally stay clear of them, but if one begins to come to near, I will command them stay clear. I read that in the last two weeks in California two "homeless" people on two separate occasions violently murdered two different women in unprovoked attacks.

I know of another incident a few years ago where two people were killed by a "homeless" man who approached them and then beat them to death.

BTW, when I say "homeless", in 90% of those cases you can assume drug addict/junkie.

Illicit fentynal users has done for street vagrants, what the Manson family did for hippies. You should now assume all to be dangerous.

 

[SkyFox76]

State has TO PROVE that the officers knew that Floyd had no pulse. The state has TO PROVE that their actions were with intent to harm Floyd---even as with the 3rd degree murder charge they don't have to prove they officers intended to murder Floyd.

I've already said prior that once the arrest started? They had the right to have him under control. They had the right to try and put him in the car. They had the right to pull him out the other side and restrain him.

All fine, but as noted, they COULD NOT overcome Floyd's strength to keep Floyd in the car. So that alone changed things down stream. Floyd was in fact resisting.



Floyd was saying that when he was in the car and BEFORE the police had applied much force. And besides, if cops were required to change their tactics, or to STOP an arrest or detention of an already non compliant and violenttly resisting subject as soon as that subject claims some medical issue, no cop anywhere could arrest anyone.




When you fall asleep you are silent and not moving. You think Floyd would be the first junkie, or the first wino that fell asleep/passed out in front of the police? Are you aware the PRIOR to the police being on scene, Floyd's co criminal buddies could NOT wake Floyd up in the car?

Floyd was high and out of his mind. How about this: maybe the cops just thought Floyd was passed out due to his own drug overdose? They had already called EMTs. Mabye they weren't trying to kill him, maybe just wait for the ambulance to get there?

Cops aren't doctors. And BTW, EMTs (medical techs) aren't paramedics, and aren't nurses, and aren't doctors either.

Guess you haven't paid much attention to police tactics and policy, but the cops could put 30 bullets into a suspect who had given them reason to be shot, and policy still requires them to handcuff that bleeding corpse until someone else declares them dead, or safe to be uncuffed.

Forgive me that I only get one line into your posts and have to stop.

Literally on the audio:

Kueng, who was working his third day as an officer, took Floyd’s pulse at the scene.

“I can’t find one,” Kueng said twice.

If you can't even get passed that simple little part of what we already know? Anything past that isn't worth the waste of time.

 

[Lursa]

Chauvin had more street experience than the rest. 2 cops were rookies so they may not even know what could be dangerous. As noted, EMTs have a very different perspective and training than cops, and the other off duty EMT bystander, has already demonstrated she is pretty much a half baked moron by her behavior in court, so I don't give her much weight in this. She may have recognized Floyd's respiratory distress based on her training, but she sure didn't do much about it if SHE REALLY BELIEVED those cops were killing Floyd.

What is left is the other cop (Thou) who had several years of on the job experience, so his perspective I would give more weight to, if he is ever called to offer it. But since he will tried in a seperate trial, he cannot be made to testify.

Um, except that the 2 rookies were RIGHT.

And Chauvin is a very intimidating guy. They had been clear with the crowd they wouldnt accept any nonsense. That first firefighter/EMT that came would have had herself arrested if she had objected further IMO. (HIndsight on my part, from Chauvin's continued actions)...but she was there, looking him in the eye. He wasnt going to allow her to interfere. This was HIS show. (Yes, my opinion).

You keep making a million excuses for Chauvin...when we all know his decisions were wrong. There may be excuses...but he was the trained veteran...and he was wrong. Testimony from police professionals and use of force experts all concur.

GF is dead and there was plenty of time to render medical aid even if drugs HAD interfered with his health. Chauvin ignored that...violating police procedure to do so.