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Deniers of Iraqi holocaust, existence of WMD programs, and ties to terrorism:

Trajan Octavian Titus

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Some reputable sources for once:




CIA World Factbook including State Department Reports of Iraqi WMD programs:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd/Iraq_Oct_2002.htm#06



This one includes reports from the state department on Saddams crimes against humanity including his policy of slaughtering dissidents in rival political parties and his ties to terrorism:
http://www.au.af.mil/au/aul/bibs/iraq/iraq.htm#terr



That is from 2002... Are you aware that as we speak, congress has found out that the CIA agent that told about these operations lied? Do you know that Dick Cheaney and Donald Rumsfeld are both going to be indicted for lying to the American people? Your wonderful president knew about this all along himself. What does that say to you. I imagine that you have the feeling that you don't care if the administration lied as long as Sadaam is out of power. That is rediculous. Bush's administration told the people and congress that they had 100% that Iraq was holding WMD, and that they had been given weapons from Syria to use against the U.S. None of this was true. I am going to give you one scripture from the bible that tells us that the law of God is above the law of man, and that it is not our responcibility to send our forces anywhere, but to defend our homeland from invasion. God will have his justice with Sadaam. You can be sure of that. America is in big trouble. What do you think the UN will say about this? I know they won't say it's okay. Please read this CAREFULLY!!!


http://members.aol.com/Wisdomway/questions.htm

As we watch our current world sink deeper and deeper into the kind of profligate behavior the angel's words were meant to countermand.

John's revelations flash a warning light whose pulsing redness grows more intense with each passing day. In the early 1960's the United States still gloried in the radiance of benefaction. It had, with its defenses, saved the entire world from a flood of desperate totalitarian fanatics who had tried to capture it militarily. Ours was a country steeped in beauty and filled with heavenly wisdom, an Eden in the garden of God.

In forty years, all that has radically changed. Those who ruled this nation in God's righteousness and human compassion were replaced by others with darker motives. They gave us a new country. Seeing no need for any power but their own, they boldly evicted God outright.

Today the nation's schools and institutions are not allowed even to utter God's name. Public prayer has been outlawed. Democracy has been replaced by greed and an unbridled thirst for money. A new militancy has surfaced, and with it, invasion and attack. The spectre of empire and hubris now haunt our flag. Jeremiah's prophecies outlining the last days foresee a nation symbolically called "Egypt" invading the country now called Iraq and setting up outposts there near the Euphrates river.

America has just done that. This prophecy has come true and it describes the United States. Our current outposts prove that we are the "Egypt" of Jeremiah's prophecy. Considering Jeremiah's description of the consequences of that invasion, our advance there portends an ominous future. As far as scripture is concerned, it portends a nation like Tyre, a nation that has discarded God owing to a national belief that it (or in our case, our constitution) is superior to God; where trading is the new god, and military prowess alone is all the protection needed or desired. Military might is America.

Therein lies the second half of the cryptogram. In other words, it portends a different kind of "Kittim", one that cannot be mistaken for "Jerusalem". It is a worldly "Kittim", the military arm of a corporate empire that views itself as omnipotent; An empire that serves a god of gold.

"By your wisdom and intelligence you have amassed great wealth; you have piles of gold and silver inside your treasure houses. Such is your skill in trading, your wealth has continued to increase, and with this your heart has grown more arrogant."

"And so, the Lord God says this: Since you consider yourself the equal of God, very well, I am going to bring foreigners against you, the most barbarous of the nations. They will draw sword against your fine wisdom, they will defile your glory; they will throw you down into the pit and you will die a violent death surrounded by the seas."

"Are you still going to say: I am a god, when your murderers confront you? No, you are a man and not a god in the clutches of your murderers! You will die like the uncircumcised at the hand of foreigners. For I have spoken it is the Lord God who speaks." (Ez.28:4-10).

It is not the United States of the nineteen-fifties that has positioned itself at the Euphrates. It is a nation that has chosen to become its own god; a nation that has replaced God with humanistic temples honoring armaments and worldly finance. Renouncing it's Christian heritage it has, in less than forty years, almost fully reconstructed itself into the secular cryptogram of a symbolic "Egypt". Jesus warns us that this dramatic movement in choice is to be the grounds for divine judgement:

"On these grounds is the sentence pronounced: that though the light has come into the world men have shown they prefer darkness to the light because their deeds are evil." (John 3:19).

Can America return to its former glory? There is only one way. We have to put God back in charge. We have to return the reins to Jesus and put the government back on His shoulders. Unless that happens our fate is sure to be as Tyre's. So keep your faith in George W. Bush. Because you yourself have forgotten that God gave life to everything, and our duty is to glorify and serve him, not our own goals or dreams.
 
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Continued...
http://members.aol.com/Wisdomway/questions.htm


Chapter 42 in the Book of Jeremiah begins a lengthy account of the Jewish return to rebuild Jerusalem. As the verses show, it is a return that comes even before the end of the Diaspora. This early return was officially begun in 1948, a date signalling that the events prophetically covered in this and the ensuing chapters of Jeremiah's book all revolve around days subsequent to 1948. Four significant events involving a country cyrptographically called "Egypt" are contained in this section.

The first warns that the Jewish refugees returning to rebuild Jerusalem will make a military alliance with "Egypt" for fear of war and the sound of the trumpet (Jer.42:11-18). True to Jeremiah's prophecy, such an alliance was made and it still exists, but it is with America, not the actual land of the Nile. This shows that "Egypt" in this prophecy is a cryptogram for the United States.

Jeremiah's sceond mention of "Egypt" concerns an attack by the king of Babylon on "Egypt" itself:

"He (the king of Babylon) will set fire to the temples of the gods of Egypt; he will burn these gods or carry them off...and leave without interference. He will break the obelisks of the temple of the Sun at On and burn down the temples of the gods of Egypt." (Jer.43:12-13).

According to President Bush, the true architect of the 9/11 attack on the New York Trade towers was Saddam Hussein, the king of Babylon (Iraq). That is America's official position. No one can prove it, but the president of the United States remains to this day fully convinced of it. The towers toppled killed thousands of innocent people, but the buildings, themselves, represented the inner sanctuary of the world's new god * trade and high finance. Towering over Manhatten, these enormous obelisks were our treasure houses, twin temples of money dedicated to world trade. And according to the president, the "king of Babylon" was at the very heart of the scheme to topple them.

The third mention of "Egypt" in this end-time scenario (Jer. 44:29-30) is a prophecy of an assassination that Jeremiah says will prove the truth of all the prophecies contained in Jeremiah's verses.

The fourth and last mention of "Egypt" (chapter 46) is directed at an "Egypt" that had recently defeated the king of Babylon in his own country (in Iraq), occupying the land there and taking up positions near the Euphrates river close to Carchemish.

It warns of an impending counterattack by the kings of the East across the Euphrates. Jeremiah calls this imminent invasion a "day of God's vengeance", and says these eastern forces will overrun the "Egyptian" (American?) outposts at the Euphrates and sweep south in a reign of terror destined to plunge the earth into a terrible war:

"Now, this is the day of the Lord God, a day of vengeance for his revenge on his enemies: his sword will eat them up and have its fill, will grow drunk with their blood. Yes, the Lord God Almighty has a sacrifice to make in the north country, by the river Euphrates." (Jer.46:10).

"There in the north, there by the river Euphrates, they have collapsed, have fallen. Who was it rose like the Nile, its waters foaming like a torrent? Why, Egypt rose like the Nile, its waters foaming like a torrent. 'I will rise,' he said 'and drown the earth; sweep towns and their inhabitants away!" (Jer.46:6-8).

It is hard not to see these prophecies in terms of the eviction of God from our shores.

They seem to prove that despite a military aresenal so vast it carries the cryptogram "Egypt", a little black book called 'the Bible' is more important to our national safety than all the B-2 bombers and hydrogen bombs our factories can ever produce.
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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GeorgeDumbyaBush said:
That is from 2002... Are you aware that as we speak, congress has found out that the CIA agent that told about these operations lied? Do you know that Dick Cheaney and Donald Rumsfeld are both going to be indicted for lying to the American people? Your wonderful president knew about this all along himself. What does that say to you. I imagine that you have the feeling that you don't care if the administration lied as long as Sadaam is out of power. That is rediculous. Bush's administration told the people and congress that they had 100% that Iraq was holding WMD, and that they had been given weapons from Syria to use against the U.S. None of this was true. I am going to give you one scripture from the bible that tells us that the law of God is above the law of man, and that it is not our responcibility to send our forces anywhere, but to defend our homeland from invasion. God will have his justice with Sadaam. You can be sure of that. America is in big trouble. What do you think the UN will say about this? I know they won't say it's okay. Please read this CAREFULLY!!!


http://members.aol.com/Wisdomway/questions.htm

As we watch our current world sink deeper and deeper into the kind of profligate behavior the angel's words were meant to countermand.

John's revelations flash a warning light whose pulsing redness grows more intense with each passing day. In the early 1960's the United States still gloried in the radiance of benefaction. It had, with its defenses, saved the entire world from a flood of desperate totalitarian fanatics who had tried to capture it militarily. Ours was a country steeped in beauty and filled with heavenly wisdom, an Eden in the garden of God.

In forty years, all that has radically changed. Those who ruled this nation in God's righteousness and human compassion were replaced by others with darker motives. They gave us a new country. Seeing no need for any power but their own, they boldly evicted God outright.

Today the nation's schools and institutions are not allowed even to utter God's name. Public prayer has been outlawed. Democracy has been replaced by greed and an unbridled thirst for money. A new militancy has surfaced, and with it, invasion and attack. The spectre of empire and hubris now haunt our flag. Jeremiah's prophecies outlining the last days foresee a nation symbolically called "Egypt" invading the country now called Iraq and setting up outposts there near the Euphrates river.

America has just done that. This prophecy has come true and it describes the United States. Our current outposts prove that we are the "Egypt" of Jeremiah's prophecy. Considering Jeremiah's description of the consequences of that invasion, our advance there portends an ominous future. As far as scripture is concerned, it portends a nation like Tyre, a nation that has discarded God owing to a national belief that it (or in our case, our constitution) is superior to God; where trading is the new god, and military prowess alone is all the protection needed or desired. Military might is America.

Therein lies the second half of the cryptogram. In other words, it portends a different kind of "Kittim", one that cannot be mistaken for "Jerusalem". It is a worldly "Kittim", the military arm of a corporate empire that views itself as omnipotent; An empire that serves a god of gold.

"By your wisdom and intelligence you have amassed great wealth; you have piles of gold and silver inside your treasure houses. Such is your skill in trading, your wealth has continued to increase, and with this your heart has grown more arrogant."

"And so, the Lord God says this: Since you consider yourself the equal of God, very well, I am going to bring foreigners against you, the most barbarous of the nations. They will draw sword against your fine wisdom, they will defile your glory; they will throw you down into the pit and you will die a violent death surrounded by the seas."

"Are you still going to say: I am a god, when your murderers confront you? No, you are a man and not a god in the clutches of your murderers! You will die like the uncircumcised at the hand of foreigners. For I have spoken it is the Lord God who speaks." (Ez.28:4-10).

It is not the United States of the nineteen-fifties that has positioned itself at the Euphrates. It is a nation that has chosen to become its own god; a nation that has replaced God with humanistic temples honoring armaments and worldly finance. Renouncing it's Christian heritage it has, in less than forty years, almost fully reconstructed itself into the secular cryptogram of a symbolic "Egypt". Jesus warns us that this dramatic movement in choice is to be the grounds for divine judgement:

"On these grounds is the sentence pronounced: that though the light has come into the world men have shown they prefer darkness to the light because their deeds are evil." (John 3:19).

Can America return to its former glory? There is only one way. We have to put God back in charge. We have to return the reins to Jesus and put the government back on His shoulders. Unless that happens our fate is sure to be as Tyre's. So keep your faith in George W. Bush. Because you yourself have forgotten that God gave life to everything, and our duty is to glorify and serve him, not our own goals or dreams.

I gave you three reasons why you're wrong you've rebutted one by stating blatent lies like Chenney and Rumy are gonna be indicted for lying what you should have said is: "I wish Cheney and Rumy are gonna be indicted." Cuz it aint going to happen. You're quoting scripture I'm quoting the state department. Get real. Nice .com by the way this is what I'm talking about reputable sources com=commercial=bussiness=agenda. Better luck next time.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/aul/bibs/iraq/iraq.htm

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2001/nea/8257.htm
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
I gave you three reasons why you're wrong you've rebutted one by stating blatent lies like Chenney and Rumy are gonna be indicted for lying what you should have said is: "I wish Cheney and Rumy are gonna be indicted." Cuz it aint going to happen. You're quoting scripture I'm quoting the state department. Get real. Nice .com by the way this is what I'm talking about reputable sources com=commercial=bussiness=agenda. Better luck next time.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/aul/bibs/iraq/iraq.htm


Blatent Lies??? So yesterday the Senate did not go into a closed session to bring up this matter? These people will be indicted. That is a fact. The Senate is meeting right now discussing this matter. Do you read the news or watch CNN? It was all over every major network last night. Your boys lied to the American people. Simple and plain. I suggest if you have CSpan-the network that brings live footage from The House of Reps. and the Senate, to tune in. And you believe the state department to have more truth than the words of God? You need help. On Nov. 14th Congress said they will release they're information on how they were misinformed by Bush and his administration, about their reasons to go to war. They are pissed. The Republicans last night did not know what to say. It was actually pretty humorous. The majority leader (Republican) got so red in the face, I thought he was going to have a heart attack. You got that CIA info from 2002. It is now 2005...you people couldn't understand something if it were right in front of your face.
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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GeorgeDumbyaBush said:
Blatent Lies??? So yesterday the Senate did not go into a closed session to bring up this matter? These people will be indicted. That is a fact. The Senate is meeting right now discussing this matter. Do you read the news or watch CNN? It was all over every major network last night. Your boys lied to the American people. Simple and plain. I suggest if you have CSpan-the network that brings live footage from The House of Reps. and the Senate, to tune in. And you believe the state department to have more truth than the words of God? You need help. On Nov. 14th Congress said they will release they're information on how they were misinformed by Bush and his administration, about their reasons to go to war. They are pissed. The Republicans last night did not know what to say. It was actually pretty humorous. The majority leader (Republican) got so red in the face, I thought he was going to have a heart attack. You got that CIA info from 2002. It is now 2005...you people couldn't understand something if it were right in front of your face.

No comment lol.

You're thinking of Libby and this has to do with the Vallery Plame Joe Wilson CIA outting investigation, Tom Delay the Rep majority leader was recently indicted but this has nothing to do with WMD it has to do with a campaign finance scandal. You're wrong Rumsfeld and Cheney will not be indicted this is just wishful thinking on your part. Show me something that proves they're being indicted. And that info is from 91-03, I just started another thread to show where those pesky WMDs went to.
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
No comment lol.

You're thinking of Libby and this has to do with the Vallery Plame Joe Wilson CIA outting investigation, Tom Delay the Rep majority leader was recently indicted but this has nothing to do with WMD it has to do with a campaign finance scandal. You're wrong Rumsfeld and Cheney will not be indicted this is just wishful thinking on your part. Show me something that proves they're being indicted. And that info is from 91-03, I just started another thread to show where those pesky WMDs went to.


No...I'm not talking about the Libby incident...The House of Reps (last night, not today) were talking about how the administration lied to the people. The Senate closed it's doors just last night to bring up these allegations. Democrats and Republicans alike are uphauld that this is true. The CIA outing investigation is just the beginning. I am not wishful thinking...this is what was said by members of congress because they also were lied to. You probably won't hear anything about this for a couple of weeks, but I promise you, Cheaney and Rumsfeld will be asked in a court of law about their real reasons to go to Iraq...it all stems from the false CIA investigations, because Cheaney tried to cover up that he had any knowledge of this back in July. I do not wish bad things against any person regardless of their personal opinion or what they vote(Rep. or Dem). I am telling you that congress and the american people were lied to. That is exactly what the House of Reps. said last night.
 

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GeorgeDumbyaBush said:
No...I'm not talking about the Libby incident...The House of Reps (last night, not today) were talking about how the administration lied to the people. The Senate closed it's doors just last night to bring up these allegations. Democrats and Republicans alike are uphauld that this is true. The CIA outing investigation is just the beginning. I am not wishful thinking...this is what was said by members of congress because they also were lied to. You probably won't hear anything about this for a couple of weeks, but I promise you, Cheaney and Rumsfeld will be asked in a court of law about their real reasons to go to Iraq...it all stems from the false CIA investigations, because Cheney tried to cover up that he had any knowledge of this back in July. I do not wish bad things against any person regardless of their personal opinion or what they vote(Rep. or Dem). I am telling you that congress and the american people were lied to. That is exactly what the House of Reps. said last night.

Just another blatant attempt at the left trying to find another Watergate, first rathergate, then Downing St, and now this, you don't get it do you a Republican dominated senate and House is never going to impeach Bush which is I'm sure where you think this Plame situation will lead to.
Last week all of you were just soooo sure that Rove was getting indicted, now it's Cheney and Rumy, what's next Bush himself, keep hoping that you can win elections through lawsuits and impeachments instead of winning them through votes. I got news for you the claims are baseless and the most they're going to get even on Libby is perjury just like the Clinton White Water scandal. This independent White House prosecutur has painted a red target on every politician in Washington on both sides of the isle, just about everyone there has done something below board, Ken Star and Fitzgerald were not elected or, appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate yet they have all the power of the Attorney General and all of the resources of the Fed Gov't at their disposal yet they have absolutely no accountability. It's simply another in the long list of liberal witch hunts against the GOP. I found your story and it's B.S. the Dems used an antiquated rule that allowed them to shut down congress, it's total B.S. the Dems have really gone over the top on this one. This **** isn't even going to make it to the house. The Dems had the same access to intel reports and if Cheney and Rumy get indicted you damn sure better start indicting Clinton Kerry and every single member of the house and Senate who agreed that Iraq had WMDs. Congress has its own intelligence gathering means in the State Department and all of the intel pointed to one thing that Saddam had WMD stockpiles and programs(and we found programs by the way it's the stockpiles that are unaccounted for and I got news for you their in Syria check out my thread in the Iraq War forum called Where are those pesky WMDs).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2005/04/11/LI2005041100879.html
 
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It is amazing how you think you can predict the future. Why is everything bullSh!t to you? Are you really this stuborn? This sh!t isn't even going to make it to the house??? Are you really that arrogant? The house was the one that came out last night and said that they were misled. Word for freaking word. Get over yourself! They said that "We have been misled by this administration, as also have the american people and the UN. There were 3 Republican's that were quoted as saying that if they would have had this information, they would not have allowed us to go to war. Plain and simple. They said it. Not me. Them. They also went so far as to say, the Clinton scandal was sexual...this scandal cost the country billions of dollars a week, and more importantly 2500 American lives. What means more to you? The fact that a president committed a sex crime? Or the fact that an entire administration lied to congress, the UN and the American people. I'm not saying they are going to impeach Bush. They did however say that they would get to the bottom of this. Republicans said it. Not all Democrats. Republicans. I can't quote which ones because it happened last night. You have to be the most stubborn person on this earth, to be so blinded by political views. You want to believe that you live in a perfect world, where no Republican could do any wrong. I will tell you now I am not a democrat, or republican. I vote for the best man that will lead this country. Why would you indict Clinton and Kerry and members of the senate?? That makes no sense. They made their decisions based on the lies of this administration. How much easier could this be to read? For your info, Rove will be indicted. The House stated that last night also. If these claims were so baseless, would the Senate exercise their right to close the doors, which they haven't done in 20 some odd years? This is huge!! The biggest allegation in the history of the United States. I cannot believe you think nothing will come of it. And as far as winning an election through votes, Kerry did win the Popular vote. Bush, based on some old colonial holdover from the nation's pre-democracy past won [the Electoral College]. I realize there's nothing the nation can do about that now...we're stuck with him. But please explain how, for the first time in election history...it takes over two weeks to count and tally votes for the same president two elections in a row? As you can tell. I don't like Bush. I have voted for republican's before..and would do it again barring he had the competence of a 5 year old. I enjoy your debates. You seem like a pretty well educated person. And please know that these are not attacks on you personally. And I'm not trying to swing your vote to one side or the other. I'm simply looking at both sides and stating facts that both sides have said. For your's, and everyone else's pleasure...I submit my favorite quote's by George Dumbya Bush...


"I'm the master of low expectations."—Aboard Air Force One, June 4,
2003

"Security is the essential roadblock to achieving the road map to
peace."—Washington, D.C., July 25, 2003

"It's evolutionary, going from governor to president, and this is a
significant step, to be able to vote for yourself on the ballot, and
I'll be able to do so next fall, I hope."—Interview with the
Associated Press, March 8, 2000

"I think we need not only to eliminate the tollbooth to the middle
class, I think we should knock down the tollbooth."—Nashua, N.H., as
quoted in the New York Times, Feb. 1, 2000

"This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation. It's what
you do when you run for president. You gotta preserve."—Speaking
during "PERSEVERENCE Month" at Fairgrounds Elementary School in
Nashua, N.H. As quoted in the Los Angeles Times, Jan. 28, 2000

On Osama Bin Laden:

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is
our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." —
9/13/01

"I want justice...There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that
said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive,'" —9/17/01

6 months later:

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't
care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."—3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."—3/13/02

"I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about
him."—3/13/02

"Uhh—Gosh, I —don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama
bin Laden. It's kind of one of those, uhh, exaggerations." — Tempe,
AZ, 10/13/2004


"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"—Florence,
S.C., Jan. 11, 2000

"I glance at the headlines just to kind of get a flavor for what's
moving. I rarely read the stories, and get briefed by people who are
probably read the news themselves."—Washington, D.C., Sept. 21, 2003

"The important question is, How many hands have I shaked?"—Answering
a question about why he hasn't spent more time in New Hampshire, in
the New York Times, Oct. 23, 1999

"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the
job is underestimating."—U.S. News & World Report, April 3, 2000

"I understand small business growth. I was one."—New York Daily
News, Feb. 19, 2000

"I thought how proud I am to be standing up beside my dad. Never did
it occur to me that he would become the gist for cartoonists."—ibid

"See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack
each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass
destruction."—Milwaukee, Wis., Oct. 3, 2003

"I was raised in the West. The west of Texas. It's pretty close to
California. In more ways than Washington, D.C., is close to
California."—In Los Angeles as quoted by the Los Angeles Times,
April 8, 2000

"Actually, I...this may sound a little West Texan to you, but I like
it. When I'm talking about...when I'm talking about myself, and when
he's talking about myself, all of us are talking about me."—ibid

BUSH: "First of all, Cinco de Mayo is not the independence day.
That's dieciseis de Septiembre, and ..." MATTHEWS: "What's that in
English?" BUSH: "Fifteenth of September." (Dieciseis de Septiembre =
Sept. 16)—Hardball, MSNBC, May 31, 2000


"The fundamental question is, 'Will I be a successful president when
it comes to foreign policy?' I will be, but until I'm the president,
it's going to be hard for me to verify that I think I'll be more
effective."—Wayne, Mich., June 28, 2000

"I do remain confident in Linda. She'll make a fine labor secretary.
From what I've read in the press accounts, she's perfectly
qualified."—Austin, Texas, Jan. 8, 2001

"I appreciate that question because I, in the state of Texas, had
heard a lot of discussion about a faith-based initiative eroding the
important bridge between church and state."—January 29, 2001

"Our nation must come together to unite."—Tampa, Fla., June 4, 2001

"We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa
is a nation that suffers from incredible disease."—GW Bush,
Gothenburg, Sweden, June 14, 2001 (Africa is not a nation)

''I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I
believe and what I believe—I believe what I believe is right."—Rome,
July 22, 2001

"Do you have blacks, too?"—To Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso,
Washington, D.C., Nov. 8, 2001

"And so, in my State of the—my State of the Union—or state—my speech
to the nation, whatever you want to call it, speech to the nation—I
asked Americans to give 4,000 years—4,000 hours over the next—the
rest of your life—of service to America. That's what I asked—4,000
hours." —Bridgeport, Conn., April 9, 2002

"There may be some tough times here in America. But this country has
gone through tough times before, and we're going to do it
again."—Waco, Texas, Aug. 13, 2002

"I think the American people—I hope the American–I don't think, let
me—I hope the American people trust me."—Washington, D.C., Dec. 18,
2002

"I think war is a dangerous place."—Washington, D.C., May 7, 2003

"First, let me make it very clear, poor people aren't necessarily
killers. Just because you happen to be not rich doesn't mean you're
willing to kill."—Washington, D.C., May 19, 2003

"We had a good Cabinet meeting, talked about a lot of issues. Secretary of State and Defense brought us up to date about our
desires to spread freedom and peace around the world."—Washington,
D.C., Aug. 1, 2003

"The ambassador and the general were briefing me on the—the vast
majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we
will find these people and we will bring them to
justice."—Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003
 

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GeorgeDumbyaBush said:
It is amazing how you think you can predict the future. Why is everything bullSh!t to you? Are you really this stuborn? This sh!t isn't even going to make it to the house??? Are you really that arrogant? The house was the one that came out last night and said that they were misled. Word for freaking word. Get over yourself! They said that "We have been misled by this administration, as also have the american people and the UN. There were 3 Republican's that were quoted as saying that if they would have had this information, they would not have allowed us to go to war. Plain and simple. They said it. Not me. Them. They also went so far as to say, the Clinton scandal was sexual...this scandal cost the country billions of dollars a week, and more importantly 2500 American lives. What means more to you? The fact that a president committed a sex crime? Or the fact that an entire administration lied to congress, the UN and the American people. I'm not saying they are going to impeach Bush. They did however say that they would get to the bottom of this. Republicans said it. Not all Democrats. Republicans. I can't quote which ones because it happened last night. You have to be the most stubborn person on this earth, to be so blinded by political views. You want to believe that you live in a perfect world, where no Republican could do any wrong. I will tell you now I am not a democrat, or republican. I vote for the best man that will lead this country. Why would you indict Clinton and Kerry and members of the senate?? That makes no sense. They made their decisions based on the lies of this administration. How much easier could this be to read? For your info, Rove will be indicted. The House stated that last night also. If these claims were so baseless, would the Senate exercise their right to close the doors, which they haven't done in 20 some odd years? This is huge!! The biggest allegation in the history of the United States. I cannot believe you think nothing will come of it. And as far as winning an election through votes, Kerry did win the Popular vote. Bush, based on some old colonial holdover from the nation's pre-democracy past won [the Electoral College]. I realize there's nothing the nation can do about that now...we're stuck with him. But please explain how, for the first time in election history...it takes over two weeks to count and tally votes for the same president two elections in a row? As you can tell. I don't like Bush. I have voted for republican's before..and would do it again barring he had the competence of a 5 year old. I enjoy your debates. You seem like a pretty well educated person. And please know that these are not attacks on you personally. And I'm not trying to swing your vote to one side or the other. I'm simply looking at both sides and stating facts that both sides have said. For your's, and everyone else's pleasure...I submit my favorite quote's by George Dumbya Bush...


"I'm the master of low expectations."—Aboard Air Force One, June 4,
2003

"Security is the essential roadblock to achieving the road map to
peace."—Washington, D.C., July 25, 2003

"It's evolutionary, going from governor to president, and this is a
significant step, to be able to vote for yourself on the ballot, and
I'll be able to do so next fall, I hope."—Interview with the
Associated Press, March 8, 2000

"I think we need not only to eliminate the tollbooth to the middle
class, I think we should knock down the tollbooth."—Nashua, N.H., as
quoted in the New York Times, Feb. 1, 2000

"This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation. It's what
you do when you run for president. You gotta preserve."—Speaking
during "PERSEVERENCE Month" at Fairgrounds Elementary School in
Nashua, N.H. As quoted in the Los Angeles Times, Jan. 28, 2000

On Osama Bin Laden:

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is
our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." —
9/13/01

"I want justice...There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that
said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive,'" —9/17/01

6 months later:

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't
care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."—3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."—3/13/02

"I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about
him."—3/13/02

"Uhh—Gosh, I —don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama
bin Laden. It's kind of one of those, uhh, exaggerations." — Tempe,
AZ, 10/13/2004


"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"—Florence,
S.C., Jan. 11, 2000

"I glance at the headlines just to kind of get a flavor for what's
moving. I rarely read the stories, and get briefed by people who are
probably read the news themselves."—Washington, D.C., Sept. 21, 2003

"The important question is, How many hands have I shaked?"—Answering
a question about why he hasn't spent more time in New Hampshire, in
the New York Times, Oct. 23, 1999

"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the
job is underestimating."—U.S. News & World Report, April 3, 2000

"I understand small business growth. I was one."—New York Daily
News, Feb. 19, 2000

"I thought how proud I am to be standing up beside my dad. Never did
it occur to me that he would become the gist for cartoonists."—ibid

"See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack
each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass
destruction."—Milwaukee, Wis., Oct. 3, 2003

"I was raised in the West. The west of Texas. It's pretty close to
California. In more ways than Washington, D.C., is close to
California."—In Los Angeles as quoted by the Los Angeles Times,
April 8, 2000

"Actually, I...this may sound a little West Texan to you, but I like
it. When I'm talking about...when I'm talking about myself, and when
he's talking about myself, all of us are talking about me."—ibid

BUSH: "First of all, Cinco de Mayo is not the independence day.
That's dieciseis de Septiembre, and ..." MATTHEWS: "What's that in
English?" BUSH: "Fifteenth of September." (Dieciseis de Septiembre =
Sept. 16)—Hardball, MSNBC, May 31, 2000


"The fundamental question is, 'Will I be a successful president when
it comes to foreign policy?' I will be, but until I'm the president,
it's going to be hard for me to verify that I think I'll be more
effective."—Wayne, Mich., June 28, 2000

"I do remain confident in Linda. She'll make a fine labor secretary.
From what I've read in the press accounts, she's perfectly
qualified."—Austin, Texas, Jan. 8, 2001

"I appreciate that question because I, in the state of Texas, had
heard a lot of discussion about a faith-based initiative eroding the
important bridge between church and state."—January 29, 2001

"Our nation must come together to unite."—Tampa, Fla., June 4, 2001

"We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa
is a nation that suffers from incredible disease."—GW Bush,
Gothenburg, Sweden, June 14, 2001 (Africa is not a nation)

''I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I
believe and what I believe—I believe what I believe is right."—Rome,
July 22, 2001

"Do you have blacks, too?"—To Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso,
Washington, D.C., Nov. 8, 2001

"And so, in my State of the—my State of the Union—or state—my speech
to the nation, whatever you want to call it, speech to the nation—I
asked Americans to give 4,000 years—4,000 hours over the next—the
rest of your life—of service to America. That's what I asked—4,000
hours." —Bridgeport, Conn., April 9, 2002

"There may be some tough times here in America. But this country has
gone through tough times before, and we're going to do it
again."—Waco, Texas, Aug. 13, 2002

"I think the American people—I hope the American–I don't think, let
me—I hope the American people trust me."—Washington, D.C., Dec. 18,
2002

"I think war is a dangerous place."—Washington, D.C., May 7, 2003

"First, let me make it very clear, poor people aren't necessarily
killers. Just because you happen to be not rich doesn't mean you're
willing to kill."—Washington, D.C., May 19, 2003

"We had a good Cabinet meeting, talked about a lot of issues. Secretary of State and Defense brought us up to date about our
desires to spread freedom and peace around the world."—Washington,
D.C., Aug. 1, 2003

"The ambassador and the general were briefing me on the—the vast
majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we
will find these people and we will bring them to
justice."—Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003

K fine it was in the house but is was done by the house minority leader invoking an antiquated rule that allowed for this with out a vote; furthermore, if you indict Cheney and Rumy you had better indict Mr. and Ms. Clinton, Kerry, and every single other politician who said the same exact thing in regards to WMDs in officicial statements prior to the war. This isn't going anywhere past Gordon Libby.
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
K fine it was in the house but is was done by the house minority leader invoking an antiquated rule that allowed for this with out a vote; furthermore, if you indict Cheney and Rumy you had better indict Mr. and Ms. Clinton, Kerry, and every single other politician who said the same exact thing in regards to WMDs in officicial statements prior to the war. This isn't going anywhere past Gordon Libby.

This is what I don't get. How can you blame other politicians for being mis-informed also. They didn't give out the information. Bush's administration did. How can you hold other people responsible for mis-lead information?
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
K fine it was in the house but is was done by the house minority leader invoking an antiquated rule that allowed for this with out a vote; furthermore, if you indict Cheney and Rumy you had better indict Mr. and Ms. Clinton, Kerry, and every single other politician who said the same exact thing in regards to WMDs in officicial statements prior to the war. This isn't going anywhere past Gordon Libby.

Ha scratch that you're freaking wrong it was a closed session in the senate not the house so like I said this isn't getting to the house:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174187,00.html
 

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GeorgeDumbyaBush said:
This is what I don't get. How can you blame other politicians for being mis-informed also. They didn't give out the information. Bush's administration did. How can you hold other people responsible for mis-lead information?

Congress has there own means of aquiring intel through the state department which said the exact same thing. Clinton said this back in the ninetys before Bush had taken office so how can this intel all be Bush's doing? Not to mention the fact that foriegn intel pointed to the exact same thing you're being a hypocrite if you think that Bush and Reps should be indicted but not the Dems on the other side of the isle who said nearly identical statements and you were wrong this is not the house this is the senate get your facts straight:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174187,00.html
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Congress has there own means of aquiring intel through the state department which said the exact same thing Clinton said this back in the ninetys before Bush had taken office so how can this intel all be Bush's doing? Not to mention the fact that foriegn intel pointed to the exact same thing you're being a hypocrite if you think that Bush and Reps should be indicted but not the Dems on the other side of the isle who said nearly identical statements and you were wrong this is not the house this is the senate get your facts straight:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174187,00.html

I never said the House went in to a closed session. The Senate did. And we will not know what was said or will be done until Nov. 14th. At the same time that the senate went into their session, the house had an open meeting, that I watched, and this was where the outrage came from. The people in the house want to get to the bottom of this. And it will mean that top advisors of the president will go on record to state their claims. I've never said that Bush will be impeached, or should be impeached. But someone has now committed purgory (which is grounds for impeachment)...and you can't tell me that he was alone. Most of the people in this administration had to know about it too. Or had to have been involved. These guys don't work alone. Maybe nothing will come of this...but it is hurting the Republicans position for 2008 if the house is telling people that the administration lied to them. I'm fine having Bush in office until then, the president isn't given enough power to screw up the entire country anyway. But he is hurting the chances for the Repub's in 2008.
 

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GeorgeDumbyaBush said:
I never said the House went in to a closed session. The Senate did. And we will not know what was said or will be done until Nov. 14th. At the same time that the senate went into their session, the house had an open meeting, that I watched, and this was where the outrage came from. The people in the house want to get to the bottom of this. And it will mean that top advisors of the president will go on record to state their claims. I've never said that Bush will be impeached, or should be impeached. But someone has now committed purgory (which is grounds for impeachment)...and you can't tell me that he was alone. Most of the people in this administration had to know about it too. Or had to have been involved. These guys don't work alone. Maybe nothing will come of this...but it is hurting the Republicans position for 2008 if the house is telling people that the administration lied to them. I'm fine having Bush in office until then, the president isn't given enough power to screw up the entire country anyway. But he is hurting the chances for the Repub's in 2008.


See this is where you're screwed up you say that relaying incorrect intel equates that everyone including Clinton believed to be correct to perjury.

Perjury - 1. telling lies under oath: the telling of a lie after having taken an oath to tell the truth, usually in a court of law
2. lie under oath: a lie told in a court of law by somebody who has taken an oath to tell the truth

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

When did Bush or anyone else in his administration lie under oath let's see some specific examples?

Lie - . deliberately say something untrue: to say something that is not true in a conscious effort to deceive somebody
He lied about his age in order to get into the army.

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


Now when did anyone in the Bush administration knowingly with intent to decieve give any false statements?

You're confusing relaying inaccurate information that was widely accepted as fact by everyone including Hillary and Bill Clinton, John Kerry and just about every single Democratic member of congress who has publicly stated that they believed Hussein had WMDs to perjury. If you indite Cheney and Rumsfeld you have to indite every single person who has said they believed the WMDs were there. You can't have it both ways it's an all or nothing situation here. Like I said Bush didn't come up with the intel he just took what the state department reported so then you open up another door, should every one in the state department and the CIA who gave inaccurate intel be indicted? This is why nothings going to happen here mark my words you're overeaching here considering the fact that the Dems have no power in the House, Senate, Executivem, and now not even the judiciary. You're screwed the Dems are imploding and you're grasping at straws here buddy.
Don't think that the Reps are just going to sit here and go along with this B.S. if the Dems go after the Bush administration for lying the Reps are going to hold every single Democrat who made official statements supporting the WMD claim's feet to the fire this includes you're little darling slick Willy. In the words of Bush bring this **** on partner!
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
See this is where you're screwed up you say that relaying incorrect intel equates that everyone including Clinton believed to be correct to perjury.

Perjury - 1. telling lies under oath: the telling of a lie after having taken an oath to tell the truth, usually in a court of law
2. lie under oath: a lie told in a court of law by somebody who has taken an oath to tell the truth

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

When did Bush or anyone else in his administration lie under oath let's see some specific examples?

Lie - . deliberately say something untrue: to say something that is not true in a conscious effort to deceive somebody
He lied about his age in order to get into the army.

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


Now when did anyone in the Bush administration knowingly with intent to decieve give any false statements?

You're confusing relaying inaccurate information that was widely accepted as fact by everyone including Hillary and Bill Clinton, John Kerry and just about every single Democratic member of congress who has publicly stated that they believed Hussein had WMDs to perjury. If you indite Cheney and Rumsfeld you have to indite every single person who has said they believed the WMDs were there. You can't have it both ways it's an all or nothing situation here. Like I said Bush didn't come up with the intel he just took what the state department reported so then you open up another door, should every one in the state department and the CIA who gave inaccurate intel be indicted? This is why nothings going to happen here mark my words you're overeaching here considering the fact that the Dems have no power in the House, Senate, Executivem, and now not even the judiciary. You're screwed the Dems are imploding and you're grasping at straws here buddy.

You sound upset there little buddy. First off, as your incompetence clearly shows. I'm not the one who brought up the allegations, nor am I the one furiously running around to discredit the people who actually make these decisions. You are. If you want to try and make light of the situation, I suggest you report your findings to the proper authorities. Because obviously these people have brought up these allegations falsely, as you put it, and have no grounds for indicting anyone. Another thing, I'm not the one who said they committed purgory, the people of The house did, and in fact, 3 of them were your beloved republicans!! What does that tell you. Are you seriously going to say that these people will put their own political parties before their country? God I hope not! Or else justice and democracy have failed us all. And again...I am not a Democrat, why are you too stuborn to listen to people?
 

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GeorgeDumbyaBush said:
You sound upset there little buddy. First off, as your incompetence clearly shows. I'm not the one who brought up the allegations, nor am I the one furiously running around to discredit the people who actually make these decisions. You are. If you want to try and make light of the situation, I suggest you report your findings to the proper authorities. Because obviously these people have brought up these allegations falsely, as you put it, and have no grounds for indicting anyone. Another thing, I'm not the one who said they committed purgory, the people of The house did, and in fact, 3 of them were your beloved republicans!! What does that tell you. Are you seriously going to say that these people will put their own political parties before their country? God I hope not! Or else justice and democracy have failed us all. And again...I am not a Democrat, why are you too stuborn to listen to people?

Oh but you did here's what you said: "But someone has now committed purgory (which is grounds for impeachment)...and you can't tell me that he was alone."

Nothing but a baseless appeal to emotion that for me will fall on deaf ears.
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Oh but you did here's what you said: "But someone has now committed purgory (which is grounds for impeachment)...and you can't tell me that he was alone."

Nothing but a baseless appeal to emotion that for me will fall on deaf ears.

You don't understand do you? I never said Bush had committed purgory...but Libby, and Rove have. They are part of the Bush administration...where there's smoke there's fire. I'm not saying Bush will be brought in on these charges, but I am saying that there is no way he could not have known this was going on. We'll see in a couple of weeks. I hope you like eating crow.
 

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GeorgeDumbyaBush said:
You don't understand do you? I never said Bush had committed purgory...but Libby, and Rove have. They are part of the Bush administration...where there's smoke there's fire. I'm not saying Bush will be brought in on these charges, but I am saying that there is no way he could not have known this was going on. We'll see in a couple of weeks. I hope you like eating crow.

This just in Libby pleads not guilty to all charges so we shall see. For good or ill the truth is going to come out. Also check out my new thread under the War in Iraq forum it's the weekly Iraqi status report from the state department.
 

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I found a link that has several quotes from Democrats that state the presence of WMDs, the Iraq/al Qaeda connection, and the decision to oust Saddam. Here are a few of my favorites;

"I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein. And when the president made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him." Senator John Kerry, May 3, 2003


"I mean, we have three different countries that, while they all present serious problems for the United States -- they're dictatorships, they're involved in the development and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction -- you know, the most imminent, clear and present threat to our country is not the same from those three countries. I think Iraq is the most serious and imminent threat to our country." Senator John Edwards, February 24, 2002

"In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more the very kind of threat Iraq poses now -- a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow by the knowledge that they can act with impunity, even in the face of a clear message from the United Nations Security Council and clear evidence of a weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, February 17, 1998

"[W]e have evidence of meetings between Iraqi officials and leaders of al Qaeda, and testimony that Iraqi agents helped train al Qaeda operatives to use chemical and biological weapons. We also know that al Qaeda leaders have been, and are now, harbored in Iraq. Having reached the conclusion I have about the clear and present danger Saddam represents to the U.S., I want to give the president a limited but strong mandate to act against Saddam." Senator Joseph Lieberman, October 7, 2002

And there are many more http://www.freedomagenda.com/iraq/wmd_quotes.html

Should all of these elected officials be indited?
 

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the AMericans giveth and the Americans taketh away

THEY put saddam into power backed his coup detat
and saddam was AMerica's puppet
now they take down what they built
by way of gradualism they think because the people under 30 are not cognisant of what took place years ago they are scot free of redicule
America supported Saddam helped him gain power and supplied both iran and iraq during their war including at the time of all of saddam's crimes against his own people America was right there with him
they used the money from selling the munitions and arms to Iran to buy dope
IRAN / CONTRA and now the opium fields of afghanistan is once again in America's hands ,instead of destroying the crops they had the farmers expand them
America the land of the douped
America is guilty the world now hates you because of your evil ways
 
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ANAV said:
I found a link that has several quotes from Democrats that state the presence of WMDs, the Iraq/al Qaeda connection, and the decision to oust Saddam. Here are a few of my favorites;

"I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein. And when the president made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him." Senator John Kerry, May 3, 2003


"I mean, we have three different countries that, while they all present serious problems for the United States -- they're dictatorships, they're involved in the development and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction -- you know, the most imminent, clear and present threat to our country is not the same from those three countries. I think Iraq is the most serious and imminent threat to our country." Senator John Edwards, February 24, 2002

"In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more the very kind of threat Iraq poses now -- a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow by the knowledge that they can act with impunity, even in the face of a clear message from the United Nations Security Council and clear evidence of a weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, February 17, 1998

"[W]e have evidence of meetings between Iraqi officials and leaders of al Qaeda, and testimony that Iraqi agents helped train al Qaeda operatives to use chemical and biological weapons. We also know that al Qaeda leaders have been, and are now, harbored in Iraq. Having reached the conclusion I have about the clear and present danger Saddam represents to the U.S., I want to give the president a limited but strong mandate to act against Saddam." Senator Joseph Lieberman, October 7, 2002

And there are many more http://www.freedomagenda.com/iraq/wmd_quotes.html

Should all of these elected officials be indited?

These are old statements. The fact is all of these people were given wrong information, from the beginning. This administration chose to act on it, without doing more thorough research. They rushed into war. In the past couple months, information was found that there was no link between Al Qaeda and Iraq, or that Iraq had WMD. Congress also found that in the latest polls, Bush has a 31% approval rating. That means 69% of Americans don't trust him anymore. Cheaney had a 19% approval rating. 81% of Americans don't trust him. Bush was not cautious going into this war. He will recieive the blame in the eyes of the American people because he is the one that acted upon this mis-information. I'm not saying he should or will be impeached, you can't impeach a president for being given wrong infromation, but the American people will use this against Republicans in 2006, and again in 2008.
 

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Dumbya,

First you wrote...
Do you know that Dick Cheaney and Donald Rumsfeld are both going to be indicted for lying to the American people?

Then you wrote...
These people will be indicted. That is a fact.

Then you wrote...
It is amazing how you think you can predict the future.

Hey, whoa, who is making predictions about the future here? Just who is this that is criticizing someone for doing the exact same thing that they have been doing?

And then you wrote...
On Nov. 14th Congress said they will release they're information on how they were misinformed by Bush and his administration, about their reasons to go to war.

Well, no, not exactly. 'Congress' as a whole didn't say anything. The subcommittee will, though. They are to report on the status of their investigation into pre-war intelligence. This investigation has been ongoing now for a couple of years and the first report was issued a good while back (a non-event -- its no wonder that you don't remember it).
 
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oldreliable67 said:
Dumbya,

First you wrote...


Then you wrote...


Then you wrote...


Hey, whoa, who is making predictions about the future here? Just who is this that is criticizing someone for doing the exact same thing that they have been doing?

And then you wrote...


Well, no, not exactly. 'Congress' as a whole didn't say anything. The subcommittee will, though. They are to report on the status of their investigation into pre-war intelligence. This investigation has been ongoing now for a couple of years and the first report was issued a good while back (a non-event -- its no wonder that you don't remember it).

Okay, I should have restated that The House said that if they have anything to do with it (and they do), that they would indite Cheaney because he lied also. He said he had never heard of the CIA agent that Libby was indited for. This was in July. Three days ago, The House found out that Cheaney did know of the identity of the CIA agent in which Libby was indited for. Thatis a lie. And is grounds for purgory. And if Cheaney knew, don't you think that Rumsfeld and probably Bush knew also? I doubt Cheaney and Libby acted alone.
 

oldreliable67

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The House said that if they have anything to do with it (and they do), that they would indite Cheaney because he lied also

Can you provide a source for this assertion?
 
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