Denial Reopens Wounds of Japan’s Ex-Sex Slaves

[jfuh]

Wu Hsiu-mei said she was 23 and working as a maid in a hotel in 1940 when her Taiwanese boss handed her over to Japanese officers. She and some 15 other women were sent to Guangdong Province in southern China to become sex slaves. Inside a hotel there was a so-called comfort station, managed by a Taiwanese but serving only the Japanese military, Ms. Wu said. Forced to have sex with more than 20 Japanese a day for almost a year, she said, she had multiple abortions and became sterile.
The long festering issue of Japan’s war-era sex slaves gained new prominence last week when Prime Minister Shinzo Abe denied the military’s role in coercing the women into servitude. The denial by Mr. Abe, Japan’s first prime minister born after the war, drew official protests from China, Taiwan, South Korea and the Philippines, some of the countries from which the sex slaves were taken.
The furor highlighted yet again Japan’s unresolved history in a region where it has been ceding influence to China. The controversy has also drawn in the United States, which has strongly resisted entering the history disputes that have roiled East Asia in recent years.

- source



I don't get it, just what purpose does it serve to make an official denial of such historical fact? Yet Japan gets away with such denials. Were it Germany issuing a denial of the concentration camps the heads of state world wide would be screaming their heads off yet some how Japan get's a pass. Why?

 

[Kandahar]

I don't think they're really "getting a pass." Abe's comments have drawn international condemnation. Beyond that, there's not really much the world can do about it. Japan is a very nationalistic country that does not want to ever admit its mistakes. Of course they should apologize for their past, just like most countries should apologize for the atrocities in their recent past.

With that said, certain countries (China comes to mind) are using this incident and other similar incidents to distract attention from their own present-day human rights records.

 

[jfuh]

I don't think they're really "getting a pass." Abe's comments have drawn international condemnation. Beyond that, there's not really much the world can do about it. Japan is a very nationalistic country that does not want to ever admit its mistakes. Of course they should apologize for their past, just like most countries should apologize for the atrocities in their recent past.

With that said, certain countries (China comes to mind) are using this incident and other similar incidents to distract attention from their own present-day human rights records.

With the mention of China, I was rather looking foward to how China would respond to this. But was quite surprised at the position they took - source
I don't think that the human rights record of China today can be comparable to what Japan did before. 1. China's HR violations are domestic and a more internal problem - similar to many of our countries own human rights issues - though far more extreem - but then again, they are not a domestic country either.
2. China doesn't deny of such violations but rather sweeps it under a rug as "the necessary steps of a developing nation" - sad but true, we too had many many HR violations in our early days but then just because we did doesn't mean that it's right - that's tu quo quoi, hence an invalid argument.
3. the distraction is for the domestic citizens of China rather than the outside world. Just as Abe's statement is to distract Japanese citizens from his falling ratings thus this hype of nationalism.

However as a descendant of a family that had to run and hide from Japanese brutality, I definitely hold a microscope over the inactions and actions of Japan.

 

[Hatuey]

With the mention of China, I was rather looking foward to how China would respond to this. But was quite surprised at the position they took - source
I don't think that the human rights record of China today can be comparable to what Japan did before. 1. China's HR violations are domestic and a more internal problem - similar to many of our countries own human rights issues - though far more extreem - but then again, they are not a domestic country either.
2. China doesn't deny of such violations but rather sweeps it under a rug as "the necessary steps of a developing nation" - sad but true, we too had many many HR violations in our early days but then just because we did doesn't mean that it's right - that's tu quo quoi, hence an invalid argument.
3. the distraction is for the domestic citizens of China rather than the outside world. Just as Abe's statement is to distract Japanese citizens from his falling ratings thus this hype of nationalism.

However as a descendant of a family that had to run and hide from Japanese brutality, I definitely hold a microscope over the inactions and actions of Japan.

I don't know about Chinas current record not being comparable to Japans...I mean if you look at what China is doing with Falung Gong followers and their involvement in black market organ trade...then theres Tibet and Taiwan... It might not seem as brutal as what Japan did but thats because we don't know to what extent the Chinese have abused the human rights of their citizens...I'ts just an opinion though.

 

[jfuh]

I don't know about Chinas current record not being comparable to Japans...I mean if you look at what China is doing with Falung Gong followers and their involvement in black market organ trade...then theres Tibet and Taiwan... It might not seem as brutal as what Japan did but thats because we don't know to what extent the Chinese have abused the human rights of their citizens...I'ts just an opinion though.

I used to think that Falun gong was just that, until I actually read into just what falun gong is. It's nothing short of a cult. A guy called into a radio show where there was a supposed "grand master" of the cult, said he was sick. The grand master said he needed to buy a small plant and place it on the highest place of the house, then he'll work his powers toward the "antenna" and that will heal him:roll: a week later the guy calls in again to the grand master and said he was still sick, the grand master said it wasn't high enough that he needed to place it higher - so the caller put it onto the roof. The 2nd week the guy calls again, surprise surprise, not healed, grandmaster said that it was "difficult to focus his energy on the antenna if it's not high enough" told him to place it higher suggesting a pole.
Also are the political activities of the group that "threaten" Beijing's authoritarian control. STill, doesn't make human torture or abuse right, but then again, these are the communists we are talking about. Bottom line though, Falun Gong are nuts.
Black market organs - no argument there.
Tibet - big controversy? Not really
Taiwan - none of Beijing's business. Taiwan is Taiwan, China yes, but not Mainland China aka Red China.
All of this though is quite off topic though. Because even then, China is not in denial about it's domestic problems; as well as the fact, so what? Japan's wrongs are not forgivable simply because China is doing bla bla bla (don't take this the wrong way - it's not meant to insult you or anyone else here).
Japan however is not a domestic problem, it's aggression, abuse, and the slaughter of millions of ppl from various other countries, even charged within courts as being guilty of those crimes, erects a shrine in downtown Tokyo and places Class A war criminals inside - the pm then visits this shrine annually. This on top of what we see here as white washing it's historical past.
This is the equivalent of Germany placing Hitler in downtown Berlin and praising him as a god; then stating that the holocaust never happened as Iran does.

 

[1069]

Wu Hsiu-mei said she was 23 and working as a maid in a hotel in 1940 when her Taiwanese boss handed her over to Japanese officers. She and some 15 other women were sent to Guangdong Province in southern China to become sex slaves. Inside a hotel there was a so-called comfort station, managed by a Taiwanese but serving only the Japanese military, Ms. Wu said. Forced to have sex with more than 20 Japanese a day for almost a year, she said, she had multiple abortions and became sterile.
The long festering issue of Japan’s war-era sex slaves gained new prominence last week when Prime Minister Shinzo Abe denied the military’s role in coercing the women into servitude. The denial by Mr. Abe, Japan’s first prime minister born after the war, drew official protests from China, Taiwan, South Korea and the Philippines, some of the countries from which the sex slaves were taken.
The furor highlighted yet again Japan’s unresolved history in a region where it has been ceding influence to China. The controversy has also drawn in the United States, which has strongly resisted entering the history disputes that have roiled East Asia in recent years.

The denial is awful.
The implication of it is that these women are either lying about the whole thing, or were voluntarily engaged in prostitution (with the enemy, no less!) during WW2.
Japan's position on this matter is reprehensible.

 

[Hatuey]

I used to think that Falun gong was just that, until I actually read into just what falun gong is. It's nothing short of a cult. A guy called into a radio show where there was a supposed "grand master" of the cult, said he was sick. The grand master said he needed to buy a small plant and place it on the highest place of the house, then he'll work his powers toward the "antenna" and that will heal him:roll: a week later the guy calls in again to the grand master and said he was still sick, the grand master said it wasn't high enough that he needed to place it higher - so the caller put it onto the roof. The 2nd week the guy calls again, surprise surprise, not healed, grandmaster said that it was "difficult to focus his energy on the antenna if it's not high enough" told him to place it higher suggesting a pole.
Also are the political activities of the group that "threaten" Beijing's authoritarian control. STill, doesn't make human torture or abuse right, but then again, these are the communists we are talking about. Bottom line though, Falun Gong are nuts

.

I don't know about Falun Gong followers being nuts but they're a group that poses no threat to the Chinese government and yet they're being tortured and abused because of their beliefs.

Tibet - big controversy? Not really

Free Tibet?

Taiwan - none of Beijing's business. Taiwan is Taiwan, China yes, but not Mainland China aka Red China.

So they're China...but not Red China? Whats the difference?

All of this though is quite off topic though. Because even then, China is not in denial about it's domestic problems; as well as the fact, so what? Japan's wrongs are not forgivable simply because China is doing bla bla bla (don't take this the wrong way - it's not meant to insult you or anyone else here).
Japan however is not a domestic problem, it's aggression, abuse, and the slaughter of millions of ppl from various other countries, even charged within courts as being guilty of those crimes, erects a shrine in downtown Tokyo and places Class A war criminals inside - the pm then visits this shrine annually. This on top of what we see here as white washing it's historical past.
This is the equivalent of Germany placing Hitler in downtown Berlin and praising him as a god; then stating that the holocaust never happened as Iran does.

I never said they were forgivable. I'm just saying that China shouldn't be screaming so loud when it's trying to hide a few skeletons in the closet. They're not exatcly Freedomland. What is wrong with visiting your war dead? Germans visit theirs. Italians visit theirs. Would we deny them this right? Should I stop visiting the graves and monuments dedicated to fallen U.S. soldiers who died in Vietnam because of the atrocities some soldiers might have committed? The Japanese have the right to be as religious as anybody else and pay their respects to their dead as much as anybody else does.

 

[jfuh]

I don't know about Falun Gong followers being nuts but they're a group that poses no threat to the Chinese government and yet they're being tortured and abused because of their beliefs.

As I said, I didn't say that it was right or should be looked the other way. But what I was trying to say was that Falun is more than just a religious entity. They also have political agendas to set, that is what makes Beijing Nervous. Wacko Texas, didn't we do the same thing to that cult?

Free Tibet?

I have to ask this, so don't take it the wrong way. On what grounds should Tibet be free? To me, the whole "free tibet" thing would be the same as someone screaming that California is not a part of the US.

So they're China...but not Red China? Whats the difference?

There couldn't be a greater difference. One side is a democracy ( in many ways more so than we are - direct elections, not this electoral college thing) the other a totalitarian single party regime. One side with one of the highest education levels in the world a leader of computer design and manufacturing the other with one of the greatest wealth divides.
One side that we are allies with, the other we are adversaries with.

I never said they were forgivable. I'm just saying that China shouldn't be screaming so loud when it's trying to hide a few skeletons in the closet. They're not exatcly Freedomland.

Just because they are not, doesn't mean that Japan has no responsibilities or that they can then white wash their past. We in the US also have many human rights violations throughout our past and even today there are still many (Abu Gharib) but so what? If another nation wrongs us in a similar mannar as Japan has all it's neighbors does that mean we have no right to be yelling about it? One of the only reasons that we do not condemn Japan more than we do is 2 fold. #1 we nuked them; #2 they are our second largest creditor today (China being #1).

Also, China is not the only complainer either. Both Korea's, Taiwan, Vietnam, Philippines. every single country that Japan invaded has complained of this recent retraction by Japan.

What is wrong with visiting your war dead? Germans visit theirs. Italians visit theirs. Would we deny them this right? Should I stop visiting the graves and monuments dedicated to fallen U.S. soldiers who died in Vietnam because of the atrocities some soldiers might have committed? The Japanese have the right to be as religious as anybody else and pay their respects to their dead as much as anybody else does.

These are not just war dead, these are tried and convicted Class A war Criminals.

 

[Hatuey]

As I said, I didn't say that it was right or should be looked the other way. But what I was trying to say was that Falun is more than just a religious entity. They also have political agendas to set, that is what makes Beijing Nervous. Wacko Texas, didn't we do the same thing to that cult?

They have a political agenda? which one?

I have to ask this, so don't take it the wrong way. On what grounds should Tibet be free? To me, the whole "free tibet" thing would be the same as someone screaming that California is not a part of the US.

China is occupying Tibet. The U.S. is not occupying California. California agreed to joining the Union. I don't think Tibet did the same.

Just because they are not, doesn't mean that Japan has no responsibilities or that they can then white wash their past. We in the US also have many human rights violations throughout our past and even today there are still many (Abu Gharib) but so what? If another nation wrongs us in a similar mannar as Japan has all it's neighbors does that mean we have no right to be yelling about it? One of the only reasons that we do not condemn Japan more than we do is 2 fold. #1 we nuked them; #2 they are our second largest creditor today (China being #1).

The problem is Japan issued an apology in 1993 I believe and now we're asking them to apologize again.

Also, China is not the only complainer either. Both Korea's, Taiwan, Vietnam, Philippines. every single country that Japan invaded has complained of this recent retraction by Japan.These are not just war dead, these are tried and convicted Class A war Criminals.

Provide a link I'd like to read about them.

 

[jfuh]

They have a political agenda? which one?

I thought the agenda was clear. To force through their religion in a totalitarian atheist state. Of course that is going to bring up ramifications against their group. Again I'm not saying that it's right for Beijing to do so, but simply the consequences of setting such agendas against an authoritarian government. From my visits to China (numerous) I've never seen any hindrance by the government nor experienced any intervention with religious practice. It's looked on by most as obsolete superstitious beliefs. And the government shuns upon "organized religion". that's just how it is.

China is occupying Tibet. The U.S. is not occupying California. California agreed to joining the Union. I don't think Tibet did the same.

What did Tibet do? Since when did China "occupy" Tibet?

The problem is Japan issued an apology in 1993 I believe and now we're asking them to apologize again.

You are referencing the Kono statement, which was not a formal governmental issue of apology but just a premise that was set out there and never ratified. Yet as the title of this thread, Abe, the prime minister of Japan said there was no such thing as governmentally sanctioned prostitution of sex slaves, aka Comfort women. So what does that say about the official position? Apology, seriously, Japan even till this day denies of the Nanking Massacre insisting that the ppl killed there were not civilians but the Chinese Army, conveniently leaving out the words unarmed. I don't make this comparison lightly but just what would be your reaction if Germany today denies the holocaust? That's how Chinese, Koreans and ppl's all around the region feel about Japan. It's disgusting.

Provide a link I'd like to read about them.

I thought I did. See the OP source.

 

[Kandahar]

What did Tibet do? Since when did China "occupy" Tibet?

Since Mao invaded Tibet in the 1950s and forcibly annexed it.

 

[Hatuey]

I thought the agenda was clear. To force through their religion in a totalitarian atheist state. Of course that is going to bring up ramifications against their group. Again I'm not saying that it's right for Beijing to do so, but simply the consequences of setting such agendas against an authoritarian government. From my visits to China (numerous) I've never seen any hindrance by the government nor experienced any intervention with religious practice. It's looked on by most as obsolete superstitious beliefs. And the government shuns upon "organized religion". that's just how it is.

Whatever happened to freedom of religion? People being allowed to follow whatever religion they want...this would kinda constitute a violation of basic human rights......It seems hypocritical of China that with all of it's current violations of human rights it would still be screaming about something that the Japs have already expressed regret for.

What did Tibet do? Since when did China "occupy" Tibet?

1950s. Mao. Zedong. Look it up?

You are referencing the Kono statement, which was not a formal governmental issue of apology but just a premise that was set out there and never ratified. Yet as the title of this thread, Abe, the prime minister of Japan said there was no such thing as governmentally sanctioned prostitution of sex slaves, aka Comfort women. So what does that say about the official position? Apology, seriously, Japan even till this day denies of the Nanking Massacre insisting that the ppl killed there were not civilians but the Chinese Army, conveniently leaving out the words unarmed. I don't make this comparison lightly but just what would be your reaction if Germany today denies the holocaust? That's how Chinese, Koreans and ppl's all around the region feel about Japan. It's disgusting.

Yes but there are other apologies issued by Japan. Are they required to apologize every year?

List of war apology statements issued by Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I thought I did. See the OP source.

Sorry didn't see it.

 

[jfuh]

Since Mao invaded Tibet in the 1950s and forcibly annexed it.

Before that?

 

[jfuh]

Whatever happened to freedom of religion? People being allowed to follow whatever religion they want...this would kinda constitute a violation of basic human rights......It seems hypocritical of China that with all of it's current violations of human rights it would still be screaming about something that the Japs have already expressed regret for.

Freedom of religion is non-existent in China - there's no laws being broken by China. We can't put our codes and our laws to apply to them when they don't have such. Again I'm not saying it's right.
But again, either way, so what? That somehow gives Japan a pass?

1950s. Mao. Zedong. Look it up?

And before Mao?

Yes but there are other apologies issued by Japan. Are they required to apologize every year?

None of which were towards any specific event like those issued by Germany. Japan has not taken a single step that is even closely resembling that of what Germany has done. I've posted this before in this forum and I'll post it again.

While German Chancelor knelling at Warsaw Poland in grief of what the German's did. Completely unscripted, no one knew, neither he prepared, but he did it.
When a Japanese PM does this in the center of Nanking then perhaps families and nations of those invaded by Japan can believe that their apologies are sincere.

List of war apology statements issued by Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yet each time after such an "apology" is issued they go on to continue denying as is evident in this perfect example in the source I used to start this thread. Lip service, each time it's the same thing over and over. Sometimes an apology in the morning and in the afternoon paying a visit to Yasukuni shrine. "We're sorry ......... not". That's exactly what it is.
Like I said before, how would the rest of the world be reacting if Germany decides to place Hitler in downtown Berlin and praising him as a god within a church? Then followed with a declaration that the holocaust never happened as Iran does. Would the Russians have no right to claim of the murders committed by the Germans? The Pols? The French? Ok the french have no right either way:lol:

Sorry didn't see it.

No problem.

 

[Hatuey]

Freedom of religion is non-existent in China - there's no laws being broken by China. We can't put our codes and our laws to apply to them when they don't have such. Again I'm not saying it's right.
But again, either way, so what? That somehow gives Japan a pass?

UN Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

I'm not saying Japan should get a free pass. All I'm saying is the Chinese shouldn't throw stones when they're currently living in a glass house.

And before Mao?

Treaty of friendship and alliance between the Government of Mongolia and Tibet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

None of which were towards any specific event like those issued by Germany. Japan has not taken a single step that is even closely resembling that of what Germany has done. I've posted this before in this forum and I'll post it again.

While German Chancelor knelling at Warsaw Poland in grief of what the German's did. Completely unscripted, no one knew, neither he prepared, but he did it.
When a Japanese PM does this in the center of Nanking then perhaps families and nations of those invaded by Japan can believe that their apologies are sincere.

So basically you want them to bow down to apologize and bow down to the west? Should we then bow down for having made 100,000 Jap civilians disappear in the blink of an eye? Twice?

Yet each time after such an "apology" is issued they go on to continue denying as is evident in this perfect example in the source I used to start this thread. Lip service, each time it's the same thing over and over. Sometimes an apology in the morning and in the afternoon paying a visit to Yasukuni shrine. "We're sorry ......... not". That's exactly what it is.
Like I said before, how would the rest of the world be reacting if Germany decides to place Hitler in downtown Berlin and praising him as a god within a church? Then followed with a declaration that the holocaust never happened as Iran does. Would the Russians have no right to claim of the murders committed by the Germans? The Pols? The French? Ok the french have no right either way:lol:

(靖国神社, Yasukuni Jinja?) is a Shinto shrine located in Tokyo, Japan, dedicated to the spirits of soldiers and others who died fighting on behalf of the Emperor of Japan. In October 2004, its Book of Souls listed the names of 2,466,532 men and women, including 27,863 Taiwanese and 21,181 Koreans, whose lives were dedicated to the service of Imperial Japan, particularly to those killed in wartime.

So basically...they shouldn't visit their war dead because you don't feel it's PC? Come on jfuh, we're just going in circles now. There are 2.5 Million people who that shrine is dedicated to. You're fussing because you believe they're paying homage to war criminals. I believe they have a right to pay homage to their war dead as much as anybody else.

 

[jfuh]

UN Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

What about it? Every nation has it's skeletons, even we do. Linking next here.

I'm not saying Japan should get a free pass. All I'm saying is the Chinese shouldn't throw stones when they're currently living in a glass house.

Ok, why is the Beijing government yelling, yes it's to distract the populice from it's own total disregard of their own laws. However the ppl that are yelling is done little by Beijing normally; but rather the citizens in China. Why should they who are not human rights violators themselves not be yelling or casting stones?

Treaty of friendship and alliance between the Government of Mongolia and Tibet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually your source does a pretty decent job of showing why Tibet is a part of China, like CA is to the US.

So basically you want them to bow down to apologize and bow down to the west? Should we then bow down for having made 100,000 Jap civilians disappear in the blink of an eye? Twice?

Two extremely different scenarios here. What I want is a sincere apology, not this half assed apology in the morning than retraction in the afternoon crap. Bowing down as Willy Brandt did would be most favorable and quite surprising. But yes I would much have that.

Now, the nukes. This is one of the many reasons (Japanese Internment being another one of many) that we here in the US allow Japan to be yelling and screaming injustices even though they were the aggressors. But let's not forget an important point here.
Nanking massacre conservative estimate of 300,000 Chinese were slaughtered, buried alive raped then murdered, beheaded all killed in the most brutal and derogatory ways. To what end or resolve? nothing, but the enjoyment and entertainment of sick perverted soldiers.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki, both were given warnings before; Japan didn't surrender, dropped 1, still not surrender, drop 2. Surrender, but not after MacArthur changed the wording of the terms of surrender. To which hundreds of thousands of lives were prevented from being killed from a pointless and meaningless landing on Honshu. So don't even begin to compare these two instances.

So basically...they shouldn't visit their war dead because you don't feel it's PC? Come on jfuh, we're just going in circles now. There are 2.5 Million people who that shrine is dedicated to. You're fussing because you believe they're paying homage to war criminals. I believe they have a right to pay homage to their war dead as much as anybody else.

Has nothing to do with PC; we're talking of convicted class a war criminals here. Would housing and worshiping of Hitler be a PC thing? Do German's not worship hitler because it's not PC? No because he was a sick perverted evil maniac that was delighted in the slaughter of jews and minorities of the non-arian race. These war criminals are the same disgusting sick freaks if not worse, delighting in the onslaught of human beings. They want to worship at Yasukuni? Fine, take out those war criminals, there're only so many of them there anyway.
BTW, :fyi: those war criminals were not there in that shrine until the US turned over complete control to the Japanese in the 50's.
Finally, Neither Taiwan nor Korea want their dead there. In fact Taiwan has made many attempts to take out the dead from that shrine but then only to be completely denied by Japan.