Dems "THINK" they will get power back, huh huh?

[alphieb]

Someone's been drinking the Kool-Aid a bit much.

When Bush took office we were already in a recession and jobs were in decline.

Thats absolutely incorrect. How do you know we are in a recession now? The balance was budgeted.

 

[justone]

Thats absolutely incorrect. How do you know we are in a recession now? The balance was budgeted.

I don't know how he knows, but I know from watching and reading news. I saw and read reports describing recession right before Bush stepped into the office. And very soon after he stepped in there were mostly reports blaming him for the recession. Tell me I should not beleive what I heard and what I saw.

 

[Kelzie]

I goofed, I thought we were talking about welfare. Actually, under current SS you will not recieve what you have put in, rather current workers will pay your pension, the current rate of return from withholding is around 1%, most annuities and other private options guarantee 2% in the worst economies, meaning that government can't do the job as well as the individual. The big problem with SS in my opinion however is the far reaching implication of more government, much like most of the New Deal programs.

Yes but current workers pay you back what you put in, correct? SS is not meant to be an investment, it's meant to be insurance.

I am not talking about a sum total here, but victimization has in fact increased since gun control has been applied. And too, like I stated, the decrease comes after a spike which came after gun control became a hot issue. I'll see what I can find if you need data though.

Please do. Although something interesting to note is that increased gun controls often (not always) come with an increase in law inforcement to enforce it...which of course leads to an increased crime rate because you have more people to catch it.

Government contracts yes, like building a bridge, a dam, etc. these by nature are temporary jobs, I stand by my statement. Also, the New Deal did not bring us out of the depression, WWII did that.

I never said that the Great Deal brought us out of the Depression. Merely that relying on a war to do so is a bad policy. The New Deal created jobs. Were they temporary jobs? Yes. Would you rather have a temporary job than none at all? I certainly would. Would the New Deal have brought the US out of the Depression? I don't know. A war kind of got in the way.

Try my mother's side of the family, most of them don't work and don't try, they are mostly retirement age now so they have been on the system for years. I in no way said that everyone or a provable majority was abusing the system, just stating that it used to be easier and those that don't need it are a drain on resources.

What used to be easier? Before you say that abusers of the system are causing a drain on resources, I need to see some numbers that show how prevelant it is. I'm slightly sceptical that it's as big a problem as people say it it.

They're not? after you pass the poverty level under the progressive income tax you pay income taxes, and then once you get into the upper middle class you pay a high percentage, usually 35-38%, this is before state income tax and miscellaneous taxation. This means that if I work my buns off to make 205K a year I would be worse off than if I slacked off and made 85K, and I would still be paying more taxes than if I would clear 26K percentage wise, but I guess that would be okay with some people because I "won life's lottery". The question. Why should I be more productive if somebody takes more of my hard earned money?

You wouldn't be worse off. In net gain, you would still be better off making 205K than you would be making 85 K. You are simply taxed more because you are able to pay a higher percentage of your salary without feeling as much hardship. As it should be.

I feel sorry for people who fall under bad circumstances, but have no pity on people who make bad choices and expect the government to bail them out on my dime. If you think that's heartless your entitled to your opinion, but my efforts are for my advancement, my monetary benefit, and my problems.

In my (possibly limited) experience, there is a very fine line between bad choices and bad circumstances. Did the people who invested in Enron have something bad happen to them? Certainly. Was investing your life savings in one source a bad choice? Certainly. It is a difficult line to draw. I simply prefer helping people up.

 

[SixStringHero]

Thats absolutely incorrect. How do you know we are in a recession now? The balance was budgeted.

I can dig up some links if you would like, but it is a widely known fact that when Bush took office in 2000 we were already in a recession.

 

[Kelzie]

This is what I think will better emphasize my point Kelzie, it's a total violent crime estimate, but who cares how you're injured when you're injured. right?http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/RunCrimeTrendsInOneVar.cfm
Notice that around 1964 to total investigations increase dramatically and the multiplier effect every year after. I'll see what else I can do from there.

That's not a valid number at all. Total crime is very different than gun crime and can rise for a myriad of reasons.

There's a point to be made from this segment of the linked page. 80% of handgun crimes were obtained without a reciept, I will bet that most of those were from illegal sources, which would go to the heart of my arguments against gun control, the laws only apply to those who obey laws in the first place.

At some point in the process, the gun was obtained legally. If we make it more difficult to obtain legally, people might rethink disposing of it illegally. In addition, 60% of the US population has favored restricting hand gun sales for the last several decades. Democracy and all...

 

[talloulou]

Same to you, big guy!

I would agree that the next presidential race looks good for the Democrats and they will have to work very hard to lose. It seems like the country switches back and forth between Republican and Democratic presidents. The way the pendulum swings means it is time for a Democrat to win the next presidential election.

But the fact that many are already throwing their support at Hilary shows the Dems are more determined than ever to toss their every advantage and every opportunity down the drain.

I hope they prove me wrong and put up a good fight 'cause I think that's what is best for the country.

 

[Stinger]

You're partially correct. The executive office submits the federal budget. Bush's 2007 budget request ran a $354 billion deficit. Congress than approves it. Any guess if a budget from a republican president to a republican congress will be approved? It's as much his fault as it is theirs.

Nope, he submits his budget "suggestions", his submission has no authority in law and can be promptly ignored by the House and Senate they are under no legal obligation to even look at it. This is a modern day phenomenom and historically presidents submitted nothing.

 

[Stinger]

Hmmm. The "Dems' failure"? Do tell.

You might want to touch base with reality once in a while, my friends. We're the ones who paid off your world-record-shattering deficit, remember? Our guy turned it into the biggest SURPLUS in American history. Your guy promptly blew it, creating a bigger deficit than all previous Presidents combined.

Wrong, Clintons budget proposals ALL asked for more money than Congress authorized except for the year he was bound by a two year agreement. His one budget he did get passed, the first one, projected deficits as far as the eye could see. It was the the second term Republican congress that passed the tax cuts that spurred the economy and increased tax revenues. Clinton was dragged kicking and screaming to those reforms.

 

[Stinger]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SixStringHero
Someone's been drinking the Kool-Aid a bit much.

When Bush took office we were already in a recession and jobs were in decline.

Thats absolutely incorrect. How do you know we are in a recession now? The balance was budgeted.

No it's absolutely correct, we had already had two quarters of negative growth by the time he took office. He smartly got tax cuts passed and the while growth was slow the rest of the year we never went into a sustained recession.

 

[Kelzie]

Nope, he submits his budget "suggestions", his submission has no authority in law and can be promptly ignored by the House and Senate they are under no legal obligation to even look at it. This is a modern day phenomenom and historically presidents submitted nothing.

I never said anything to the contrary. As we are living in the present day, the president DOES submit the budget and the Congress DOES take it into account, passing a large majority of it, if not the entire thing.

 

[Stinger]

I never said anything to the contrary. As we are living in the present day, the president DOES submit the budget and the Congress DOES take it into account, passing a large majority of it, if not the entire thing.

You said he "submits the federal budget", he does not, he submits his suggestions. His, this is kinda what I'd like to see. The HOUSE writes the budget, using his suggestions or not and no they have no obligation to pass a large majority of it or even take notice of it. Constitutionally the president has no role in the writing of the budget only in signing the seperate funding bills that make up the so-called budget. It wasn't even until Nixon's term that he even submitted his suggestions as a matter of the process, but even then as now it has no legal standing and puts no requirement on the House to even take notice of it.

 

[Kelzie]

You said he "submits the federal budget", he does not, he submits his suggestions. His, this is kinda what I'd like to see. The HOUSE writes the budget, using his suggestions or not and no they have no obligation to pass a large majority of it or even take notice of it. Constitutionally the president has no role in the writing of the budget only in signing the seperate funding bills that make up the so-called budget. It wasn't even until Nixon's term that he even submitted his suggestions as a matter of the process, but even then as now it has no legal standing and puts no requirement on the House to even take notice of it.

And his suggestions are in the form of a budget. He doesn't say "Hey guys, you know what'd be cool? If you gave some more money to...". He gives them a BUDGET. They don't have to follow it, but that's what they get.

 

[MSgt]

Sigh...more strange, unsourced commentary on Democrats that someone pulled out of his butt. & the Dems always sound just like something a neocon would make up. It's so cute the way you guys do that.

I'm still hoping someone can point me toward some smarter neocons. They can't all possibly be this pathetic.

Of course, anyone who voted TWICE for The Worst President Ever™ is gonna be pretty lame.

Why yes, like any rational person, I can see at a glance the Dems will get back into power, & mighty soon. If you travel outside the bubble of disinformation in which neocons dwell, you'll see that the American people are demanding it. I'm just trying to reduce the shock for you when your delusions are shattered.

Don't worry. We're liberals. We won't disenfranchise you. We won't torture you. Probably.

But you are going to jail. Then we will herd the Republicans into the states where incest is legal. They can have their own country, consisting mostly of snarky white males of subnormal intelligence. Without the left to rip off, the right won't last five minutes.

Fellow scholars, it's just an historical reality that no one--even people as obviously brilliant as Bush & Cheney--stays in power forever. Incompetents stay in power only a very short time. Incompetent, criminal traitors stay in power for only a second.

This is reality. You see how it works? Try reading some books.

Yes Virginina, the charming right-wingers at this forum are coveirn gtheir ears & humming loudly as reality closes in. The Democrats will soon be back in power--at which point the whole Republican Party goes to jail. The whole world will explode with joy at the end of this Republican bummer.

By the way, the infant mortality rate is starting to go up, for the first time in 40 years. This after the last elected American President, Bill Clinton, got it down to the lowest rate in history. (All together now: THANK YOU, BILL!)

Hmm...the Republicans are in power; the babies are starting to die. Not a good sign.

The Republican Party has screwed up past the imagination of God. It would be funny if people weren't getting hurt.

By the way, it has come to my attention the Neocons here don't understand a word I've said so far. It's gone right over their heads, as their weird attempts to respond make clear.

I'm sorry. I forgot: Neocons are tremendously dumb. They don't know it because they have inflated egos. Just look at the drill-sergeant dude--my personal favorite here--who keeps referring to people much smarter than he as "slaves." The man obviously thinks he's brilliant. What a flamer.

Anyway, I'll work on simplifying my vocabulary, reducing syntactic complexity & periphrastic redundancy, minimizing my use of abstruse figures of speech, esoteric allusions, & mulitlingual puns. If it reas like "Dick & Jane," maybe the conservative guys will understand it.

Calm down. Just pulling your leg. At least I'm not repeating vicious slander authored by psychopaths at the RNC. Most of what y'all have said about Democrats in this thread is bullshit made up by psychos at the RNC. Your whole thing is a fraud.

The "President" is even starting to use his core power base of white males of subnormal intelligence! Only the really slow learners still support him now. Awwww!



http://progressivedailybeacon.com/commentary.php?id=1046

:roll: The post of the desperate. I'll just keep saying it....In 28 years, the Republcans owned the White House for 20. There's just no amount of Internet pasting that will change this.

Perhaps if the Democratic Party began being constructive rather than always sucking it's thumb and pointing fingers, it could move forward. Of course, they could always put John Kerry back in front of the cameras.

 

[PerryLogan]

How could he match the charisma of GWB, right?

Constructive? Consider this: the Clinton Administration achieved the lowest teen birthrate in 60 years. They undoubtedly prevented more abortions than the entire Right to Life movement.

So if you oppose abortion, vote Democratic. We beat the Right at their own game every time.

Again: welfare rolls under the last elected President were the lowest in 30 years. So...if you oppose welfare, vote Democratic.

& again: Clinton & Gore reduced the size of the Federal government--a feat matched only by Harry Truman.

So if you're opposed to big government, vote Democratic. It's only logical.

(Applause. Bows & kisses.)

Quick reminder to Republicans: gloating over your party's treason is bad for your health.

It can also make your lips fall off. This is why most Republicans have no lips.

People, it's just so weird listening to right-wingers turning the stats over, trying to make it look like everything they've done has been brilliant, when in fact every single thing they have ever done has pulled a complete boner.

Earth calling the right: everything you do fails. Money hemorrhages out of the country when you're in power. People die. It's the same thing over & over again. This denial is getting tedious.

Not to mention the tone of insufferable superiority--from people who obviously don't read books. I say that with love.

Republicans are stupid & stubborn. That's why we love the little idiots. They apply crackpot policies--ideas which have gone down in flames every time they've been tried.

Of course the policies fail.

The Republicans then go off & cook up stats to make their failed strategies sound successful. They continue their inept rule, producing more & worse catastrophes. It's in the news every day.

That's why America is going down the toilet, while the Drill Sergeant Poseur dude gloats over his party's treason. (What a slave!)

Wake up & smell the coffee. Republican rule over the United States is one of the biggest governmental catastrophes in world history. The party--really more of a criminal gang--is dead. The Democratic strategy or candidate is completely irrelevant, because the Republicans are destroying themselves.

America is throwing the right off like a virus.

Arr!

 

[PerryLogan]

The shape of things to come:

GOP Trashed in Special Elections

A drumbeat of corruption, deficits and war dead has begun to haunt Republican candidates as they hit the campaign trail. The macabre cadence is playing more widely than just federal races: Since November, it has become the background music in a series of state special elections.

Democrats are winning, often overwhelmingly, in districts and states that have backed Republicans in recent elections. The results show that state-level progressive candidates are better poised than at any time in the past 14 years to benefit from a defection of moderate conservatives and a slight left turn in the electorate.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2551/

Eight months before midterm elections, Republican incumbents in Pennsylvania, Montana, Rhode Island, Ohio and Missouri face difficult races for re-election in a noticeably more challenging political environment for the GOP. And the early polls show a competitive campaign in Tennessee, where Majority Leader Bill Frist is retiring.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060318...HMcI7is0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OXIzMDMzBHNlYwM3MDM-

 

[MSgt]

How could he match the charisma of GWB, right?

Constructive? Consider this: the Clinton Administration achieved the lowest teen birthrate in 60 years. They undoubtedly prevented more abortions than the entire Right to Life movement.

So if you oppose abortion, vote Democratic. We beat the Right at their own game every time.

Again: welfare rolls under the last elected President were the lowest in 30 years. So...if you oppose welfare, vote Democratic.

& again: Clinton & Gore reduced the size of the Federal government--a feat matched only by Harry Truman.

So if you're opposed to big government, vote Democratic. It's only logical.

(Applause. Bows & kisses.)

Quick reminder to Republicans: gloating over your party's treason is bad for your health.

It can also make your lips fall off. This is why most Republicans have no lips.

People, it's just so weird listening to right-wingers turning the stats over, trying to make it look like everything they've done has been brilliant, when in fact every single thing they have ever done has pulled a complete boner.

Earth calling the right: everything you do fails. Money hemorrhages out of the country when you're in power. People die. It's the same thing over & over again. This denial is getting tedious.

Not to mention the tone of insufferable superiority--from people who obviously don't read books. I say that with love.

Republicans are stupid & stubborn. That's why we love the little idiots. They apply crackpot policies--ideas which have gone down in flames every time they've been tried.

Of course the policies fail.

The Republicans then go off & cook up stats to make their failed strategies sound successful. They continue their inept rule, producing more & worse catastrophes. It's in the news every day.

That's why America is going down the toilet, while the Drill Sergeant Poseur dude gloats over his party's treason. (What a slave!)

Wake up & smell the coffee. Republican rule over the United States is one of the biggest governmental catastrophes in world history. The party--really more of a criminal gang--is dead. The Democratic strategy or candidate is completely irrelevant, because the Republicans are destroying themselves.

America is throwing the right off like a virus.

Arr!

:yawn: ......."In 28 years, the Republcans owned the White House for 20."

Your pathetic little false peace and surplus during the 90's came at a price. Celebrate that maliciousness while your celebrating natural occurrences.

 

[PerryLogan]

You mean "while you're celebrating."

Go back to bed. Keep gloating like that & hair will grow on your palms, Little Mister.

(Cool pirate picture, huh?)

 

[MSgt]

You mean "while you're celebrating."

Go back to bed. Keep gloating like that & hair will grow on your palms, Little Mister.

(Cool pirate picture, huh?)

Who's gloating?

"In 28 years, the Republcans owned the White House for 20."

This is just a fact with numbers that can't be fudged or presented erronously. By the way, I'm not even a Republican. I just call it as I see it.

 

[justone]

Consider this: the Clinton Administration achieved the lowest teen birthrate in 60 years. They undoubtedly prevented more abortions than the entire Right to Life movement.
[/SIZE][/B]

By what means? Do you mean Bill's personal involvement with experents of sex with no sexual relations with Monica? Is this how he made things happen?

 

[Ivan The Terrible]

PerryLogan,

Consider this: the Clinton Administration achieved the lowest teen birthrate in 60 years. They undoubtedly prevented more abortions than the entire Right to Life movement.

At first I thought that maybe you have some actual truth. Now I see you have no facts to offer. If your here just to have fun why not visit the basement?

 

[PerryLogan]

I'm afraid of how bad the grammar would be down there.

Gee...I thought the whole point was to have fun. My bad.

 

[Ivan The Terrible]

Oh Perry,

I'm afraid of how bad the grammar would be down there.

Now it's natural to be afraid of that at first... But it will pass...

Gee...I thought the whole point was to have fun. My bad.

Not according to cnredd. But I think it should be. Face it human you do n ot have a leg to stand on up here. You have lost all of your credibility up here. The only way to go is down.

 

[PerryLogan]

Please--humanoid, perhaps. But never human.

Yes, you are truly terrible, Ivan. Plus you have a few vowels in your name, so I'm less confused about who you are.

Not that I'm saying the Right don't have minds or personalities. They probably do.

I'm like reeling from the irony of people who voted for the worst President ever, worst administration ever, worst Congress ever, most corrupt government ever; people who have spent the last few years rationalizing torture, debt, war and war crimes; people who are still pretending the Constitution isn't being totally shredded, etc.—these people telling me I have no credibility.

(Boggle-boggle.)

All kidding aside, I really am learning quite a bit from this weird visit. It's a sort of amateur psychologist's look at people who are incredibly in denial. We're going to have to figure out what to do with yez after the Imminent Republican Implosion. Imean, we can't just let you wander around, mucking up everything.

 

[Ivan The Terrible]

PerryLogan,

Yes, you are truly terrible, Ivan. Plus you have a few vowels in your name, so I'm less confused about who you are.

What is this? Some kind of crude joke?

Not that I'm saying the Right don't have minds or personalities. They probably do.

I'm like reeling from the irony of people who voted for the worst President ever, worst administration ever, worst Congress ever, most corrupt government ever; people who have spent the last few years rationalizing torture, debt, war and war crimes; people who are still pretending the Constitution isn't being totally shredded, etc.—these people telling me I have no credibility.

You do not really believe this do you? Human take heed... You need help.

 

[talloulou]

I'm like reeling from the irony of people who voted for the worst President ever, worst administration ever, worst Congress ever, most corrupt government ever; people who have spent the last few years rationalizing torture, debt, war and war crimes; people who are still pretending the Constitution isn't being totally shredded, etc.—these people telling me I have no credibility.

If its not too personal let me ask you a question....who did you vote for in the last presidential election? If you voted for someone other than Kerry than you have some right to be so abusive. However if you voted for Kerry than you're a moron to be throwing all these accusations around. Was Kerry anti-war? Was he gonna pull out of Iraq? Was he against the Patriot Act? I didn't vote for him 'cause he offered nothing different than what we were already getting. And he was damn wishy washy about it too. The election was skull n bones vs skull n bones. There was no choice!