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Dems should stick to the proven facts about Trump

Skeptic Bob

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We still don’t know the details about Mueller’s report, but so far my prediction that Trump wouldn’t be directly connected to any Russian collusion seems to be holding up. Personally, moving into the 2020 election cycle I think the Dems should drop collusion as an issue. But there is something provable that came out of the investigation that the Dems should emphasize: Trumps surrounds himself with criminals.

There is no arguing that now. We have not only indictments but convictions. Frankly, I was surprised by how many people were taken down for their crimes from this investigation.

Ask the voters if they want a President who employed criminals as his confidants and advisors. Ask the voters if they want a President who couldn’t even earn or keep the respect of numerous previous cabinet appointees that he personally picked. Show that Trump is incapable of building an administration staffed with qualified, law abiding citizens.

There is no need for Dems to play the speculation game. Stick to the proven facts, because those are damning enough.
 

EMNofSeattle

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We still don’t know the details about Mueller’s report, but so far my prediction that Trump wouldn’t be directly connected to any Russian collusion seems to be holding up. Personally, moving into the 2020 election cycle I think the Dems should drop collusion as an issue. But there is something provable that came out of the investigation that the Dems should emphasize: Trumps surrounds himself with criminals.

There is no arguing that now. We have not only indictments but convictions. Frankly, I was surprised by how many people were taken down for their crimes from this investigation.

Ask the voters if they want a President who employed criminals as his confidants and advisors. Ask the voters if they want a President who couldn’t even earn or keep the respect of numerous previous cabinet appointees that he personally picked. Show that Trump is incapable of building an administration staffed with qualified, law abiding citizens.

There is no need for Dems to play the speculation game. Stick to the proven facts, because those are damning enough.

This is an argument that will backfire on the Dems because 1) the various indictments against Trump associates were minor, personal, and unrelated to Trump, and 2) the Dems are dirtier and can be shown to engage in multiple coverups
 

Cardinal

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We still don’t know the details about Mueller’s report, but so far my prediction that Trump wouldn’t be directly connected to any Russian collusion seems to be holding up. Personally, moving into the 2020 election cycle I think the Dems should drop collusion as an issue. But there is something provable that came out of the investigation that the Dems should emphasize: Trumps surrounds himself with criminals.

There is no arguing that now. We have not only indictments but convictions. Frankly, I was surprised by how many people were taken down for their crimes from this investigation.

Ask the voters if they want a President who employed criminals as his confidants and advisors. Ask the voters if they want a President who couldn’t even earn or keep the respect of numerous previous cabinet appointees that he personally picked. Show that Trump is incapable of building an administration staffed with qualified, law abiding citizens.

There is no need for Dems to play the speculation game. Stick to the proven facts, because those are damning enough.

While I agree with the thrust of your post in terms of creating a narrative that works, the claims of collusion I've seen (and made) are based on things that have actually happened and very little is based on speculation.
 

Cardinal

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This is an argument that will backfire on the Dems because 1) the various indictments against Trump associates were minor, personal, and unrelated to Trump, and 2) the Dems are dirtier and can be shown to engage in multiple coverups

If even one quarter of the number of Obama associates went down like Trump associates did, every conservative outlet would be calling Obama the head of an organized crime family.
 

Rexedgar

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Democrats better get their heads out of their asses or prepare for a landslide Trump 2020 election, imo.
 

Cardinal

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Democrats better get their heads out of their asses or prepare for a landslide Trump 2020 election, imo.

One important difference between Democrats and Republicans is that Democrats don't have a propaganda media outlet to spew out talking points 24/7. While Republicans can leave the propaganda to Fox News, Democrats must craft their public narratives entirely by themselves.
 

Airyaman

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We still don’t know the details about Mueller’s report, but so far my prediction that Trump wouldn’t be directly connected to any Russian collusion seems to be holding up. Personally, moving into the 2020 election cycle I think the Dems should drop collusion as an issue. But there is something provable that came out of the investigation that the Dems should emphasize: Trumps surrounds himself with criminals.

There is no arguing that now. We have not only indictments but convictions. Frankly, I was surprised by how many people were taken down for their crimes from this investigation.

Ask the voters if they want a President who employed criminals as his confidants and advisors. Ask the voters if they want a President who couldn’t even earn or keep the respect of numerous previous cabinet appointees that he personally picked. Show that Trump is incapable of building an administration staffed with qualified, law abiding citizens.

There is no need for Dems to play the speculation game. Stick to the proven facts, because those are damning enough.

You're talking about Beto, aren't you ;)
 

Rogue Valley

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We still don’t know the details about Mueller’s report, but so far my prediction that Trump wouldn’t be directly connected to any Russian collusion seems to be holding up. Personally, moving into the 2020 election cycle I think the Dems should drop collusion as an issue. But there is something provable that came out of the investigation that the Dems should emphasize: Trumps surrounds himself with criminals.

There is no arguing that now. We have not only indictments but convictions. Frankly, I was surprised by how many people were taken down for their crimes from this investigation.

Ask the voters if they want a President who employed criminals as his confidants and advisors. Ask the voters if they want a President who couldn’t even earn or keep the respect of numerous previous cabinet appointees that he personally picked. Show that Trump is incapable of building an administration staffed with qualified, law abiding citizens.

There is no need for Dems to play the speculation game. Stick to the proven facts, because those are damning enough.

I tend to agree. Overreach is unnecessary and the sleazy facts, felony indictments, plea deals, and convictions are quite damming.

Not to even mention all the resignations from Trumps White House/Administration, former Cabinet members under investigation, and nepotism.

Plus there are two trials going on for Trump violating the Emoluments Clause, and 16 states are suing Trumps faux border emergency decree.

The SDNY is also looking into the Trump family for bank fraud, mortgage fraud, tax fraud, and election "contributions in kind" felonies.
 

jimbo

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We still don’t know the details about Mueller’s report, but so far my prediction that Trump wouldn’t be directly connected to any Russian collusion seems to be holding up. Personally, moving into the 2020 election cycle I think the Dems should drop collusion as an issue. But there is something provable that came out of the investigation that the Dems should emphasize: Trumps surrounds himself with criminals.

There is no arguing that now. We have not only indictments but convictions. Frankly, I was surprised by how many people were taken down for their crimes from this investigation.

Ask the voters if they want a President who employed criminals as his confidants and advisors. Ask the voters if they want a President who couldn’t even earn or keep the respect of numerous previous cabinet appointees that he personally picked. Show that Trump is incapable of building an administration staffed with qualified, law abiding citizens.

There is no need for Dems to play the speculation game. Stick to the proven facts, because those are damning enough.

If democrats stuck to proven facts, they'd have nothing.
 

jnug

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Democrats better get their heads out of their asses or prepare for a landslide Trump 2020 election, imo.

The GOP spent two years diddling itself making believe it was actually conducting Oversight. The dems did not need to nor do they need to wait for the Mueller report to get about the business of Oversight. They are about the business of doing it now. But if I hear one more nitwit congressman talk about waiting for the Mueller report I am going to lose it.
 

RaleBulgarian

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The SDNY is also looking into the Trump family for bank fraud, mortgage fraud, tax fraud, and election "contributions in kind" felonies.

^^ Trump’s greatest dangers in the long term, IMO.

Justice department guidelines say the president can’t be indicted. Keeping that very important factor in mind, it is entirely possible that Trump possibly has committed crimes, but Mueller is prohibited from doing anything other than including it in his report. Additionally, there may evidence/proof of Trump being involved in other things that may not be criminal, but could be considered as “high crimes or misdemeanors”.

There’s a whole lot that we don’t know and it’s up to the Dems push for as much public disclosure as possible.

Maybe there’s no there there, and maybe there is. Either way, I want to know.
 

Manc Skipper

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Bigging up your fortune to get a bank loan while minimising it to the taxman is fraud. This we know. :mrgreen:
 

RaleBulgarian

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This is an argument that will backfire on the Dems because 1) the various indictments against Trump associates were minor, personal, and unrelated to Trump, and 2) the Dems are dirtier and can be shown to engage in multiple coverups

1. Minor? No. Connected to Trump? Not that we currently know of, but the sheer number of those associated with Trump who have been charged/convicted of crimes should give every American, regardless of political persuasion, reason to consider what kind of person surrounds himself with so many obvious criminals?
2. You keeping score? Both parties have done plenty of dirty ****. Saying one is less guilty than the other is really disingenuous and frankly, stupid.
 

RaleBulgarian

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If even one quarter of the number of Obama associates went down like Trump associates did, every conservative outlet would be calling Obama the head of an organized crime family.
Some do, and worse.
 

Amelia

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1. Minor? No. Connected to Trump? Not that we currently know of, but the sheer number of those associated with Trump who have been charged/convicted of crimes should give every American, regardless of political persuasion, reason to consider what kind of person surrounds himself with so many obvious criminals?
2. You keeping score? Both parties have done plenty of dirty ****. Saying one is less guilty than the other is really disingenuous and frankly, stupid.


You're conceding too much. Remember Individual-1?
 

joko104

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If even one quarter of the number of Obama associates went down like Trump associates did, every conservative outlet would be calling Obama the head of an organized crime family.

Not one person indicted is a family member and not one indictment or conviction is related to the campaign or Trump. The only relevant indictments were over a dozen Russian spies that President Obama admitted he was protecting in his calling down the DOJ and FBI not to investigate Russian involvement in the election. Russia never had a better friend or spy in the USA than in President Obama, although Hilary Clinton is a close second sending national security secrets via an unsecured server so Russia and everyone else could see it - while giving Russia 20% of our uranium for Russia's mega new bombs in exchange for over $100,000,000 from Russians.
 

joko104

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I tend to agree. Overreach is unnecessary and the sleazy facts, felony indictments, plea deals, and convictions are quite damming.

Not to even mention all the resignations from Trumps White House/Administration, former Cabinet members under investigation, and nepotism.

Plus there are two trials going on for Trump violating the Emoluments Clause, and 16 states are suing Trumps faux border emergency decree.

The SDNY is also looking into the Trump family for bank fraud, mortgage fraud, tax fraud, and election "contributions in kind" felonies.

:lamo No, wait, the millions of times we said that Mueller would destroy Trump was wrong. It isn't about Mueller. Oh, yeah, it isn't about Democrat Congressional committees. It's about New York. That's it. The New York A.G. is gonna get Trump!"

Why not just go back to sneering and ranting that Trump could never be elected president and stick with that fantasyland? :lol:
 

Grokmaster

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One important difference between Democrats and Republicans is that Democrats don't have a propaganda media outlet to spew out talking points 24/7. While Republicans can leave the propaganda to Fox News, Democrats must craft their public narratives entirely by themselves.

Yeah...they have NBC, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, CNN , NPR, and every other media outlet BESIDES ONE.
 

Fletch

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One important difference between Democrats and Republicans is that Democrats don't have a propaganda media outlet to spew out talking points 24/7. While Republicans can leave the propaganda to Fox News, Democrats must craft their public narratives entirely by themselves.

Yes, republicans have 'a' propaganda news outlet--Fox. Democrats have every other news outlet acting as their Ministry of Propaganda.
 

Rexedgar

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Bigging up your fortune to get a bank loan while minimising it to the taxman is fraud. This we know. :mrgreen:

“......when the taxman comes to the door the house look like a rummage sale.......”

 

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Yes, republicans have 'a' propaganda news outlet--Fox. Democrats have every other news outlet acting as their Ministry of Propaganda.

Republicans have a propaganda outlet because they believe (falsely) that they're just doing what everybody else does. Which is pretty much how all bad people justify their abhorrent behavior: "If I didn't do it, somebody else would just do it to me."
 

Fletch

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Republicans have a propaganda outlet because they believe (falsely) that they're just doing what everybody else does. Which is pretty much how all bad people justify their abhorrent behavior: "If I didn't do it, somebody else would just do it to me."

Uh, no. Liberals had a monopoly on the media until Fox broke it. Now you liberals just cant stand the idea that you dont get to control the narrative and spew your nonsense un-apposed.
 

Xelor

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We still don’t know the details about Mueller’s report, but so far my prediction that Trump wouldn’t be directly connected to any Russian collusion seems to be holding up. Personally, moving into the 2020 election cycle I think the Dems should drop collusion as an issue. But there is something provable that came out of the investigation that the Dems should emphasize: Trumps surrounds himself with criminals.

There is no arguing that now. We have not only indictments but convictions. Frankly, I was surprised by how many people were taken down for their crimes from this investigation.

Ask the voters if they want a President who employed criminals as his confidants and advisors. Ask the voters if they want a President who couldn’t even earn or keep the respect of numerous previous cabinet appointees that he personally picked. Show that Trump is incapable of building an administration staffed with qualified, law abiding citizens.

There is no need for Dems to play the speculation game. Stick to the proven facts, because those are damning enough.

Red:
Given the counterintelligence factors inherent in unveiling such a connection, whether or not such a connection be extant is unlikely to be revealed to the general public, particularly if any of the information demonstrating the nature and extent of such comes from assets the USIC has within Russia's upper echelons of power. And let's be real, given that we're talking about POTUS candidate who became POTUS, it's highly unlikely that any leads/information about such a connection came from "digging through dumpsters" or singular strokes of serendipity.

It may be that Congressional intelligence committees obtain such information, but what can they do with it without compromising material components of the USIC's network/resources? Little to nothing. They can't share it and they can't just say "there's 'there' there and you'll just have to take our word for it" and expect that to "fly" politically.

Accordingly, the only thing that may come out is that Trump committed some sort of financially driven offense and wasn't indicted due to the DoJ "Agnew" opinion. And information that suggests anything like that is sure to be, initially at least, claimed as privileged.
 

Cardinal

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Uh, no. Liberals had a monopoly on the media until Fox broke it. Now you liberals just cant stand the idea that you dont get to control the narrative and spew your nonsense un-apposed.

The idea that the other outlets are propaganda is just projection in order to pardon Fox.
 
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