Demoracts: Do You Support Maduro in Venezuela?

[Fledermaus]

I don't support Trump!
\/

No one said you did.

(And according the DaveFagan logic Trump can't be dictator because he was elected.)

Assad, Gaddafi, Saddam, etc. And Putin is headed that way.

 

[Fledermaus]

Your flagrant and repetitive lack of truthful information speaks for itself. I suggest you wean off the gubmint Narrative and try truth.
OOOPSIE, I forgot you got to check with Pete so you can repeat.
\/

Still waiting for you to SHOW ME.

 

[Fledermaus]

Wrong, per usual. Excellent repeat of the gubmint NARRATIVE
\/

Maduro assets were seized. Feel free to refute.

 

[Idiometer]

I support whoever the people of Venezuela support.

 

[Idiometer]

Progressives preach about this when a Republican is president and then return to their project of turning the US into an oligarchy lead by progressive elites when they manage to put a Democrat in that office.

You're trying to apply American conservatism vs progressivism to Venezuela. Their system is nothing like ours.

I'm against any U.S. administration that works at weakening, through vocal and public criticism, the very institutions that keep a president's power in check. That includes intelligence, justice, and the press, all three of which our current president criticises constantly.

 

[Idiometer]

The USA has offerred NO humanitarian aid to Venezuela. USA/OBAMA energy sanctions have killed the Venezuelan economy and caused poverty and chaos. The USA is responsible for this crisis and is in no way a helpful influence in that Nation. Any one who buys the MSM NARRATIVE that we are trying to help Venezuela needs their head examined. This is the most blatant interference in South American politics since we used the CIA to have Allende killed and installed Pinochet in Chile and just as evil.
Maduro is elected, not a dictsator, May 2018 with 60% of the popular vote. He follows in the footsteps of Chavez who was elected 7 times to institute a Bolivarian Republic/Socialism in Venezuela. A MSM narrative that states either of these individuals is/was a dictator is absolutely false and condemns that Media and citizens should take note.
\/

This is a little bit off-topic, but may I ask: Since in your estimation we created this crisis, would it be your opinion that refugees from Venezuela applying for asylum here in the U.S. should be granted refugee status? I ask because we, the U.S., are equally implicit in the crises currently taking place in Central America, yet American conservatives seem adamant that we not allow those people in, on any basis.

 

[Idiometer]

You are still mouthing the Party Line....

The free fall PRECEDED the sanctions. The sanctions were originally enacted due to deaths of Venezuelans protesting the Venezuelan economic distress..........

"In 2014, a series of protests, political demonstrations, and civil insurrection began in Venezuela due to the country's high levels of urban violence, inflation, and chronic shortages of basic goods"

BEFORE THE SANCTIONS...

Where do you get your "history" from?

Didn't Venezuela's economic woes begin with drops in the price of oil? Isn't that pretty much their only export? Sanctions aside, their last dictator also dictated when to drill and who to do business with. The downfall began with Hugo Chavez.

 

[Idiometer]

[emoji38]

Socialism: so awesome, it counts as stealing if Capitalism doesn't prop it up.


#Winning

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

Like others here on both political "sides," you're applying American conservatism vs progressivism to a country where the model does not fit. What they have in Venezuela bears no resemblence to the type of Democratic Socislism many liberals propose in American politics. Capitalism and socialism are not mutually exclusive in a civil and enlightened society.

 

[Fledermaus]

Didn't Venezuela's economic woes begin with drops in the price of oil? Isn't that pretty much their only export? Sanctions aside, their last dictator also dictated when to drill and who to do business with. The downfall began with Hugo Chavez.

I think this quote sums it up: "Venezuela has really become the poster child for how the combination of corruption, economic mismanagement, and undemocratic governance can lead to widespread suffering"

Oil was definitely an issue. But not the only issue.

 

[jet57]

What a simplistic and WRONG way to look at things.

So capitalist interloping and American hegemony are the right way to do things? Have you seen Iraq lately? Maybe Venezuela? OH! I know - Vietnam!! Now there's a pretty picture of American capitalist genius.



The name of Iran comes to mind as well, but I just can't put my finger on - why....

:roll:

 

[jet57]

Like others here on both political "sides," you're applying American conservatism vs progressivism to a country where the model does not fit. What they have in Venezuela bears no resemblence to the type of Democratic Socislism many liberals propose in American politics. Capitalism and socialism are not mutually exclusive in a civil and enlightened society.

Well said.

 

[Fledermaus]

So capitalist interloping and American hegemony are the right way to do things? Have you seen Iraq lately? Maybe Venezuela? OH! I know - Vietnam!! Now there's a pretty picture of American capitalist genius.



The name of Iran comes to mind as well, but I just can't put my finger on - why....

:roll:

Iraq - Irrelevant
Iran - Irrelevant
Vietnam - Irrelevant

What "capitalist interloping and American hegemony" do you imagine occurred when we supported the opposition candidate?

 

[cpwill]

Like others here on both political "sides," you're applying American conservatism vs progressivism to a country where the model does not fit. What they have in Venezuela bears no resemblence to the type of Democratic Socislism many liberals propose in American politics. Capitalism and socialism are not mutually exclusive in a civil and enlightened society.

Sure. None of that here.

 

[cpwill]

Iraq - Irrelevant
Iran - Irrelevant
Vietnam - Irrelevant

What "capitalist interloping and American hegemony" do you imagine occurred when we supported the opposition candidate?

Western Europe and Japan seem to be doing alright.

 

[Xelor]

Do You Support Maduro in Venezuela?

1. I'm not a Democrat.
2. I don't give a wet rat's ass about Maduro.
3. I have no approbation for Maduro's overtures toward Russia/Putin. But that has to do with what I think of Russia obtaining another foothold in the Western hemisphere, not with the fact that it's Maduro thus enabling Russia. I'd have the same thing to say were it Justin Trudeau or my next door neighbor or the guy who lives "down the street and around the corner" from you.

 

[LouC]

As a Democrat I couldn't care less who leads or thinks they lead Venezuela.

Keep America out of their politics.

Pull all official personnel out and bring them home.

ASAP

 

[Oborosen]

You need to stop imbibing the nonsense from the gubmint propaganda machine, read some objective news/truth ans quit watching TV. The truth is out there but you deny it.
\/

Then why don't you actually try to share this truth with the rest of us?

Because I'm already sure of myself after seeing what he's done to his own country. The mass shortages of necessities, the arrest and cruel treatment of either political opponents, or opposing journalist. Him being only able to win votes for himself after stuffing his government with sycophants aligned to his rule of the country.

It's kind of hard to see how you could be even remotely right at this point. Because I've seen more than enough covered by journalist from the US, to all the way across the pond and I'm hard pressed to remember anything that actually shows him in a good light.

 

[Oborosen]

What do you base those assertions on?

A few months of watching his people violently fend for themselves, for the most basic amenities a person should be able to possess and I will admit. While watching a group of people trying to kill a cow with rocks for what seemed to be 15 minutes, did tickle that part of my brain that laughs stupid crap on the internet. It was a nice testament to how desperate things were getting and that video was a long while ago.

 

[falcata]

Recently the chair of the Venezuelan legislature was elected President and Maduro was declared to be a usurper in response to the unrest and deprivation in that country.

That's not at all what happened, and your statement here somewhat invalidates the poll.

First we need to understand the structure of the Venezuelan government. They have five coequal branches of government: Executive, Legislative, Judicial, Electoral, Ethics/Corruption.

So in the last legislative election the opposition party won the Bolivarian Party (Maduro) conceded the election, however there was found to be vote buying in a southern state of Venezuela so the ethics and electoral branches said that the election in that state must be redone. In spite of that the legislative body sat those representatives anyway. Their Supreme Court then found them in contempt and the national assembly more or less told the Supreme court to "f*ck off." In response there was a new election put into place to elect a constituent assembly to legally subvert the insubordinate national assembly. Now fast forward to 2018 and we have a presidential election which Maduro won by a healthy margin. It is also important to note the Jimmy Carter Center has praised the Venezuelan electoral system as being fair and transparent. Now in our current state we see Juan Guaido, the president of the currently defunct national assembly, declare himself the executive president despite not running in that election at all.

 

[falcata]

Another post with zero thought or substance.


Where do you get your "history" from?

Conspiracy sites and RT.com?

RT provides a lot more informative and comprehensive coverage than just about any American corporate news outlet.

Hell, they have Chris Hedges on their network. That alone puts them well over any I can think of.

 

[falcata]

Not sure of the election that brought Maduro was legitimate. Haven't the UN expressed concerns about that already?
We already know that Maduro's corrupt regime has not only packed the national assembly, but also their courts.

Seems most of the world's democracies are supporting the challenger. They may have something there.

Not interfering in another sovereign nation's internal politics is well worth noting. We certainly don't even like the appearance of it happening in ours, why should they like it when we do in theirs?

*Most of NATO and MERCOSUR

 

[uptower]

I don’t know about anything besides I hope that this gentleman is a capitalist

This new guy likely is a capitalist: what we don't know is whether he'll be as authoritarian as Maduro but friendlier to the US. I voted Cofvefe because it's possible neither can be trusted to have their country's interests at heart.

 

[Oborosen]

And Trump supporters seem intent about tearing down any institution that could hold Trump accountable for possible wrong doing.

A country is only one generation of weakening democratic institutions away from a Maduro and Trumpites seem hell bent on wanting one.

Trumps lack of transparency about his business dealings and not properly divesting himself of his business interests are a blank cheque Trump supporters and Republicans have given him to enable corruption.

Citations would help.

 

[Oborosen]

Your flagrant and repetitive lack of truthful information speaks for itself. I suggest you wean off the gubmint Narrative and try truth.
OOOPSIE, I forgot you got to check with Pete so you can repeat.
\/

Right there Dave. That's why no one actually takes you seriously.

You were given a chance to actually prove your position to be the correct one. Yet you tucked tail and ran from the opportunity.

Why?

 

[Fledermaus]

RT provides a lot more informative and comprehensive coverage than just about any American corporate news outlet.

Hell, they have Chris Hedges on their network. That alone puts them well over any I can think of.

RT does produce some very well done articles and subjects. It along with SPUTNIK and others also serve as propaganda tools for the Russian government.