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Democrats oppose the president's plan to add troops to Iraq

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Democrats oppose the president's plan to add troops to Iraq

By Renee Schoof and Margaret Talev

WASHINGTON - If President Bush is determined to win over Congress to the idea of keeping more American troops in Iraq, his chances looked dim Wednesday night.

But even as the new Democratic majority and some of the president's fellow Republicans expressed doubts or rejected the notion outright, they had yet to coalesce behind binding legislation to stop him.

Instead, lawmakers will hold hearings Thursday and in ensuing weeks to analyze the plan, and Democrats are scheduling votes on nonbinding resolutions that would force members of both parties to go on record supporting or opposing Bush's "new way forward" in Iraq.

The Senate could begin debating resolutions as early as next week; House of Representatives leaders were more vague on the timing.

"We will give his proposal a fair hearing, and in our hearings, we will establish the ground truth of what is happening in Iraq, and then we will vote on the president's proposal," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., who opposes Bush's buildup.

Early opposition from Democrats was sharp.

Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., the head of the Out-of-Iraq Caucus, said Bush's plan was futile and would only put more U.S. troops in harm's way. "We cannot undo the harm we have created" in Iraq, she said.

Republican leaders were generally supportive.

"It is our best shot at victory in Iraq, and I think that's what the American people want and expect," said House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., called the plan "courageous and correct." He also said Democrats should be prepared for "considerable debate" on any legislation that they tried to bring to the floor, suggesting that the minority may delay votes.

But the president now faces critics in his own party as well.

Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., who was traveling in Iraq, said Wednesday, "I do not believe that sending more troops to Iraq is the answer. Iraq requires a political rather than a military solution."

Sen. Norm Coleman, R-Minn., delivered a speech on the Senate floor opposing a troop increase. "I refuse to put more American lives on the line in Baghdad without being assured that the Iraqis themselves are willing to do what they need to do to end the violence of Iraqi against Iraqi," he said.

Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, said she could support more American troops in Anbar province, the hotbed of the Sunni Muslim insurgency, but not in Baghdad, where "it's clear the violence is entirely sectarian."

Sen. John Warner of Virginia, the ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said he'd wait until Thursday to issue a detailed response. But he floated the idea of Republican critics rallying around a resolution endorsing the recommendations of the Iraq Study Group. That bipartisan panel backed a goal of bringing most U.S. troops home by early 2008.

Warner said that while he wanted to support President Bush and show him respect, ultimately "I support what's in the best interests of this country."

In the House, eight Republicans sent Bush a letter warning him that adding troops would make matters in Iraq worse. They said there was no evidence that more American forces could stop the sectarian violence, and that an increase would deepen Iraqi dependence on the United States, reduce the number of American troops poised to respond to other crises around the world and give al Qaida more recruiting power.

The eight were Reps. Walter B. Jones and Howard Coble of North Carolina, Ron Paul of Texas, Wayne Gilchrest and Roscoe Bartlett of Maryland, John Duncan of Tennessee, Phil English of Pennsylvania and Steven LaTourette of Ohio.

Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said that measuring the depth of opposition to Bush's plan had to be the first step, "and then after that we will decide what further actions to take."

All options will be considered, he said, including restrictions on funding.

Democrats have mentioned a few ideas about how to block a troop increase.

Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., has called for a vote to require the president to win congressional authorization for any more troops in Iraq. He said it wouldn't cut off any money for troops who already were in Iraq or were on the way there. American troop levels might already be up in Iraq by the time his legislation passed, but "I can't do anything about that," he said.

Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., said an amendment to the supplemental budget for the Iraq war could be used to oppose an increase in troops but that it wasn't clear whether such a measure would get enough Republican support to meet the 60-vote threshold that's needed to end debate in Senate, where Democrats have a 51-49 majority.

>SNIP<

Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., a top defense appropriator, has suggested that there are legislative means to curb the president without hurting the troops. But as of Wednesday night, Democratic leaders had yet to endorse any such plans.


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If there are in fact legislative means to curb the president without hurting the troops, then I hope they will waste no time in implementing said means.
The president has lost his mind, and must be brought to heel.
 
Of course they do.
 
I dont see any suggestions from the Dems...... other than cut and run.
 
I dont see any suggestions from the Democrats...... other than cut and run.

I don't see any suggestions from anyone. I haven't seen a successful suggestion from Republicans in 5 years.
 
I guess you didnt watch the president tonight then.


:rofl You must be kidding. The President didn't propose a change in strategy in Iraq, in fact, the ONLY thing that will be different will be the increase in troops. Lets take a look at what he acctually proposed:

1. Primarily focus on one city while largely, and in most cases, completely ignoring the rest of Iraq all the while pretending that the Iraqis are competant enough to do the job they were supposed to be doing all along. We've been working with Iraqi brigades for months now and it hasn't gotten us any closer to victory. Again, he wants to keeping making the same mistake we've been making since the very begining i.e. drive them out of one city, abandon that city to go get them, and watch as said city is overrun with insurgents and death squads again. This isn't a change in strategy at all. It's the same strategy with an additional 20,000 troops implimenting it.

2. Give the Iraqi government benchmarks.....again. As I recall, the last time we set benchmarks, the Iraqi government was a year late despite being under the same diplomatic pressure that Bush is reapplying now. The Iraqi government won't get anything done within the time frame we're giving them mainly because it's a weak government which has 0 influence outside of the green zone. The United States is the only muscle over there so why are we depending on those pinheads once again to make good on promises they probably have no ability or intention to keep?

3. We're deploying another carrier battle group to essentially wag our finger at Iran again. Whoop-dee-doo. The one we already have there didn't do squat to deter Iran so why would another make any difference?
 
:rofl You must be kidding. The President didn't propose a change in strategy in Iraq, in fact, the ONLY thing that will be different will be the increase in troops. Lets take a look at what he acctually proposed:
I think he gave a good explanation of what he felt needed to be done and why. He also admitted how things that have went wrong have been his fault, etc. That's more than I can say about any of the democrats.

3. We're deploying another carrier battle group to essentially wag our finger at Iran again. Whoop-dee-doo. The one we already have there didn't do squat to deter Iran so why would another make any difference?

I happen to be on that other carrier strike group that is going to "wag our finger at Iran" again. Whoop-dee-doo? I guess you know all about what our mission is then, right?

Clearly, you are an expert on the subject. I am eager to learn so perhaps you could explain to us all what we will be doing and the effect it will have? If you could give a bit more detailed description besides we are wagging our finger and whoop dee doo that would be great. Thanks in advance for your insightful post on the intracicies of carrier strike groups in the persian gulf.
 
Clearly, you are an expert on the subject. I am eager to learn so perhaps you could explain to us all what we will be doing and the effect it will have? If you could give a bit more detailed description besides we are wagging our finger and whoop dee doo that would be great.

The carrier strike groups are over there as an attempt to intimidate Iran into complying with what the United States wants it to do. If it fails, the Topiary-In-Chief will order a joint attack with Israel on Iran's nuclear facilities.
 
The carrier strike groups are over there as an attempt to intimidate Iran into complying with what the United States wants it to do. If it fails, the Topiary-In-Chief will order a joint attack with Israel on Iran's nuclear facilities.

Really now? Clearly, you are an expert on the subject. :roll:

This is what makes me angry. All over there are people speaking up so strongly about something, but the reality of it is, they dont know squat about what they are talking about.

Obviously, I cannot disclose any information about a ship's mission, but let's just say you are clueless and should refrain from voicing opinions about what kind of impact a 2nd carrier strike group would have in the persian gulf and using terms like whoop-dee-doo. Thanks. :2wave:
 
Obviously, I cannot disclose any information about a ship's mission, but let's just say you are clueless and should refrain from voicing opinions about what kind of impact a 2nd carrier strike group would have in the persian gulf and using terms like whoop-dee-doo. Thanks. :2wave:

Clueless? LOL. Get back to me when you guys do something right in this war and/or with Iran for a change. I know why you're going over there and it isn't going to work.
 
Clueless? LOL. Get back to me when you guys do something right in this war and/or with Iran for a change. I know why you're going over there and it isn't going to work.

:rofl Here we have the left wing bashing our military... at it's finest.

Again, I will state how completely clueless you are. We aren't going over there to work huh? So we just go on 6-11 month deployments for fun? Maybe we should stop giving ships individual names and just merge with carnival cruise line. :roll:

Do you have any idea how many people are in 2 carrier strike groups? The thought of you thinking we dont do any work is just amazing. However, I reflect back to you previous post and try to understand the source, so it makes it a little easier to grasp.

If you can provide some more useful information pertaining to carrier strike groups before I go to bed, that would be great. If not, I will try to salvage this post to help laugh myself to sleep tonight.
 
We aren't going over there to work huh?

You don't ship out two entire carrier battle groups to one place unless your intent is to intimidate, threaten, and/or make war. Your only REAL job in going over there is to look intimidating and be used as part of a threat against Iran.
 
You don't ship out two entire carrier battle groups to one place unless your intent is to intimidate, threaten, and/or make war. Your only REAL job in going over there is to look intimidating and be used as part of a threat against Iran.

Please refer to the 'you don't know what you are talking about and are basing everything on opinion, not fact' post.
 
Please refer to the 'you don't know what you are talking about and are basing everything on opinion, not fact' post.

Please go back to whatever naval academy you washed out of and brush up on naval tactics. All of the military analysts agree with me and my statements are supported by statements out of the DOD and simply by common sense.
 
Please go back to whatever naval academy you washed out of and brush up on naval tactics. All of the military analysts agree with me and my statements are supported by statements out of the DOD and simply by common sense.

Do you even know the 3 types of warfare?

I find it amusing how you are going to argue with me when I am the one who got the brief. You do not know what you are talking about.

Your stating opinions and not facts. The truth is you know nothing about what is going on and why. Please stop pretending you do know because you dont.
 
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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Please go back to whatever naval academy you washed out of and brush up on naval tactics. All of the military analysts agree with me and my statements are supported by statements out of the DOD and simply by common sense.

In my opinion, many of the military analysts out there are clueless. Also, if you say that your statements are supported by statements that the DOD made, please provide links to those statements so that others may attempt to follow your logic train and come to the same conclusions you have.
 
I heard Bush's speech tonight, and I have to admit that it was the same old same old. His delivery was better than usual. Yet is was bushPOOP. Bush stood on television tonight, and effectively said to the American people, whom he knows heavily oppose him and said F__K Y_U
 
Do you even know the 3 types of tactics?

Are we going with land, sea, and air or Anti-Air Warfare, Anti-Submarine Warfare, and Anti-Surface Warfare?

You do not know what you are talking about.

You are having dillusions of granduer. If you plan on speaking against the very people who gave you that order and every credible analyst then go ahead but it only makes you look ridiculous.
 
Are we going with land, sea, and air or Anti-Air Warfare, Anti-Submarine Warfare, and Anti-Surface Warfare?

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. How about tactical/operational/strategic?

You are having dillusions of granduer. If you plan on speaking against the very people who gave you that order and every credible analyst then go ahead but it only makes you look ridiculous.

I think you are the one who looks ridiculuous. I know what the mission is, you dont.
 
Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. How about tactical/operational/strategic?



I think you are the one who looks ridiculuous. I know what the mission is, you dont.

LMAO

Napoleon, you put SpooK to shame, my friend! :2wave:
 
I'm okay with the troops. I question whether it's too late or not, but that's a different subject. I'm actually not okay with him apologizing. He shouldn't have exposed his weakness like that. Put it in the memoirs.
 
I'm okay with the troops. I question whether it's too late or not, but that's a different subject. I'm actually not okay with him apologizing. He shouldn't have exposed his weakness like that. Put it in the memoirs.


This might have been a good plan 2 years ago. Now it's just 21,500 more targets on the backs of our troops so Bush can try to save face.

There are 7 million people in Bagdad. Tactically, to secure the city during a civil war, we would need one soldier for every 40 people. That's 175,000 troops just in Bagdad. Shinsecki said as much before the war started and got canned. Anyone who doesn't agree with the president get's canned.

Bush is all alone on this one...
 
There are 7 million people in Bagdad. Tactically, to secure the city during a civil war, we would need one soldier for every 40 people. That's 175,000 troops just in Bagdad....

Thank you, General. :roll:

Anyone who doesn't agree with the president get's canned. ...
Are you saying you know the reasons why certain people in the military are replaced?

Bush is all alone on this one...

I'm with him on this. Millions of Americans are with him on this. Many in Congress are with him (except for the ones staging "symbollic" oppostion) and, most important, our military is with him on this. I think it would be more accurate if you said, "Bush may not be alone on this, but those of us who vowed to hate him in 2000 are not with him."
 
I'm okay with the troops. I question whether it's too late or not, but that's a different subject. I'm actually not okay with him apologizing. He shouldn't have exposed his weakness like that. Put it in the memoirs.

I think a repetition of the same old "we're winning, everythings fine, last throes" kind of statements isn't the way to establish any credibility with the so-called new plan. Increasing deployment by 15% is better than doing nothing, but IMO is a token action for political purposes more than something that is likely to dramatically change the security situation in Iraq.
 
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