Democrats, only option failure in Iraq (1 Viewer)

[Topsez]

I think Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have been shopping for another black granite wall of shame based on recent press releases. It seems the only option they want to offer Prez Bush is failure in Iraq. They seem to desire to provide no alternative to staggered withdraw in failure or simply leaving tomorrow in failure. I’m so angry I wish they would open a Liberal Season this year rather than a deer season… Make the liberal sausage into a statue of liberty on her knees giving Saddam oral sex while fondling OBL’s genitals… then let the rats eat it in competition with the maggots.

They say they speak for the US citizens so do they speak for you?

 

[Iriemon]

I think Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have been shopping for another black granite wall of shame based on recent press releases. It seems the only option they want to offer Prez Bush is failure in Iraq. They seem to desire to provide no alternative to staggered withdraw in failure or simply leaving tomorrow in failure. I’m so angry I wish they would open a Liberal Season this year rather than a deer season… Make the liberal sausage into a statue of liberty on her knees giving Saddam oral sex while fondling OBL’s genitals… then let the rats eat it in competition with the maggots.

They say they speak for the US citizens so do they speak for you?

Given the failure this war has been for going on four years, I'll take the withdrawal failure over the stay the course failure.

 

[Topsez]

Given the failure this war has been for going on four years, I'll take the withdrawal failure over the stay the course failure.

Failure is not an option! Why can no one see failure is not an option? Try to put politics aside and consider a route towards victory or life as we know it will change forever.

 

[26 X World Champs]

Given the failure this war has been for going on four years, I'll take the withdrawal failure over the stay the course failure.

I agree. Have you noticed that the dwindling amount of Bush supporters for this war have so completely reversed their "course" on what the actual stated objective of the war is?

Remember how they used to say that we're going to eradicate WMDs?

Remember how they used to say we would be greeted as liberators?

Remember how they used to say that we're going to fight Al Qaeda?

Remember how they used to say that Iraqi Oil would pay for the war?

Remember how they used to say that we're going to fight terrorists?

Remember how they used to say that the war would not last even 6 months?

Remember how they used to say that we're going to spread democracy throughout the region?

Remember how they used to say that the war will be waged by the generals on the ground?

So now it's getting close to 4 years into the war and Iraq is worse off today than it was the day before we invaded. Bush's approval rating on Iraq is at 26% as of today's USA Today / Gallop Poll.

The same poll out today says only 12% of Americans support a surge!

More than 70% of Americans are against the war and want us to find a way out.

Add it all up and you have one of the greatest failures in US history. If this were a softball game the mercy rule would have been enforced.

So here we are with a broken Iraq. We're losing the war. We have no simple solution that gets us out. It's a true quagmire.

So please explain to me how anyone with any sense of logic, common sense, dare I say intelligence could start a thread under the premise that the Democrats are at fault for not having a solution to Bush's war?

 

[nort_12345]

Failure is not an option! Why can no one see failure is not an option? Try to put politics aside and consider a route towards victory or life as we know it will change forever.

what would be victory for you?

 

[nort_12345]

thanks to the bush adm., we have lost this war and there is no way to win. now it's time for the democrats to come in and clean up the mess that the republicans made. the democrats are like the mother that has to clean up after the baby after it has thrown it's bowl of food on the floor. then after the mess is cleaned up, every one likes the baby again and the republicans get power. the cycle continues.

 

[Topsez]

The crap falling out of you gus mouth would gag a maggot... The left has been on the enemies side since the restart of hostilities. The constant news cycle and late nite comedy and liberal press leads the American perspective around like a flock of sheep.

I hope Prez Bush gives the congress an altimatium of either support victory or cut funding tomorrow. Change the rules of engagement to make all the liberals wring their hands worring about "who turned the dogs loose?"

Regardless the war must be won! If it isn't fought to win then Prez Bush will not leave troops there to die peacemeal as the Dems would like... And, if it isn't won get ready to punch holes in Alaska, in view of the FL beach, in view of San Francisco and every damned other place we can find oil because it won't be welcome from the ME glowing in the dark. You cowards make me want to puke!

 

[dragonslayer]

Failure in Iraq. Let's see. Since we don't have any goals set for this war, what do we get if we some how win?

I want to ask you, strange NeoCons. What does it mean, when you say win.

Does it mean, 100,000 Americans dead? does it mean more huge profits for Exxon/Mobile, Haliburton, and Saudi Arabia. If we do continue to waste lives, money and create more terrorist, what do we get if we win? We need to start trying win the war on terror and get out of Iraq.

Bush has already lost in Iraq. We use to be a highly looked on and respected nation. We have a clown for a president and we are hated.

 

[ARealConservative]

Our military mod is by far my favorite poster in this forum but I simply don't share his optimism in reshaping the middle east.

Maybe Kennedy is playing politics, or maybe he truly beliefs cutting and running is best for America.

I honestly don't know his motives. The best I can do is support people that have spent far more time then I studying these issues and demonstrate their beliefs in a logical fashion. So, I'm not optimistic, but I'm also not ready to say packing it in is the best bet. Although I lacked support originally, not trying to see things though isn't any good either. The cost, both in monetary measures, and human suffering, is too great IMO. So, They have my support a while longer.

What, I'm not willing to do is publicly accuse the opposition of undermining America for political ambition, even if privately I might wonder.

 

[ARealConservative]

it mean, when you say win.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

It means leaving Iraq as the model of democracy for the rest of the ME (outside of Israel) to be envious of.

 

[Skip]

It means leaving Iraq as the model of democracy for the rest of the ME (outside of Israel) to be envious of.

What do you not understand about this not being possible? Face the music. Pardon my French, but there's no other way to say it: We've completely ****ed everything up over there.

Thanks, Bush!

 

[ARealConservative]

What do you not understand about this not being possible? Face the music. Pardon my French, but there's no other way to say it: We've completely ****ed everything up over there.

Thanks, Bush!

Perhaps you missed this part of my post: I simply don't share his optimism in reshaping the middle east.


Regardless, I feel a sense of responsibility now for what happens in Iraq. Perhaps a civil war is something we can't prevent, but your callousness in support of it troubles me.

 

[Topsez]

Failure in Iraq. Let's see. Since we don't have any goals set for this war, what do we get if we some how win?

I want to ask you, strange NeoCons. What does it mean, when you say win.

Prez Bush has clearly stated the objective in Iraq... pay attention.

Does it mean, 100,000 Americans dead? does it mean more huge profits for Exxon/Mobile, Haliburton, and Saudi Arabia. If we do continue to waste lives, money and create more terrorist, what do we get if we win? We need to start trying win the war on terror and get out of Iraq.

Why do you associate oil profit with Iraq? It shows ignorance to blame big oil and Haliburton for the war. Saudi Arabia will in fact be a very big part of the war if we leave... they will put the big bucks behind the Sunnis and the Iranians will put big military power behind the Shiites for a deal to own part of Iraq... I can even see Kuwait helping the Sunnis in Iraq just to keep Iran at bay... Of course Israel will nuke Iran and Iran will bomb Israel and the whole ME will be up in smoke thanks to wet handed maggots afraid to do what is necessary for victory.

Bush has already lost in Iraq. We use to be a highly looked on and respected nation. We have a clown for a president and we are hated.

If we leave Iraq as we left Vietnam every maggot dictator and terrorist will strike American interests at will not to mention emboldening N. Korea, Russia and China. Weakness begs for an asskicking and there are plenty of bullies in the world willing to issue asskickings. Have some pride in your nation and support victory instead of supporting defeat and a wall of shame for soldier to mark off friends who died for nothing thanks to people who think like you. Quiters are lower than whale **** and deserving maggots to devour them unable to kill anything.

 

[ARealConservative]

If we leave Iraq as we left Vietnam every maggot dictator and terrorist will strike American interests at will not to mention emboldening N. Korea, Russia and China. Weakness begs for an asskicking and there are plenty of bullies in the world willing to issue asskickings. Have some pride in your nation and support victory instead of supporting defeat and a wall of shame for soldier to mark off friends who died for nothing thanks to people who think like you. Quiters are lower than whale **** and deserving maggots to devour them unable to kill anything.

I don't believe this to be true.

From a purely military standpoint, what overthrow has been more impressive?

And did not the president show the ability to rally American's behind waging war?

What idiot is going to look at Iraq and go, boy I can obviously attack American interests with impunity?

Now it might send a message that "holing up" and waiting for America to leave is the best military strategy, and they would be right. We have shown time and again to not have the stomach for sustained conflict.

 

[Skip]

Perhaps you missed this part of my post: I simply don't share his optimism in reshaping the middle east.

After rereading your post, I misinterpreted it the first time.

Regardless, I feel a sense of responsibility now for what happens in Iraq. Perhaps a civil war is something we can't prevent, but your callousness in support of it troubles me.

This statement doesn't make much sense to me. You agree with me that civil war is likely, if not guaranteed, but then you claim that I support a civil war? Of course I don't. I would like nothing more then for me to be wrong. I would love to see Iraq become a democracy on the operational level of the U.S.A.

However, realistically, this is as likely as Ohio State winning an appeal with the NCAA and being declared the national champions of college football. I do not think we can win in Iraq. I do think that it would be possible to win if we go back to the initial invasion - obviously this is impossible. I blame our administration for the mess in the ME. Hope that clears things up for ya.

 

[ARealConservative]

This statement doesn't make much sense to me. You agree with me that civil war is likely, if not guaranteed, but then you claim that I support a civil war? Of course I don't. I would like nothing more then for me to be wrong. I would love to see Iraq become a democracy on the operational level of the U.S.A.

A civil war is guaranteed if we leave now. Of course it could still happen even if we wait it out but conditions could also improve. What I'm saying is the human cost of a civil war, our direct responsibility for war, and the already high monetary costs and human costs is reason enough to closely consider our options.

 

[Topsez]

I don't believe this to be true.

From a purely military standpoint, what overthrow has been more impressive?

And did not the president show the ability to rally American's behind waging war?

What idiot is going to look at Iraq and go, boy I can obviously attack American interests with impunity?

Now it might send a message that "holing up" and waiting for America to leave is the best military strategy, and they would be right. We have shown time and again to not have the stomach for sustained conflict.

If we cut and run I think our professional military will disown liberals and conversatives alike... war cannot be fought with the press determining the timeline. The return to the ME on the valid 100% vote by every member of congress would not be reassurance to those who lost friends and family in this war... all military see politicians with wet fingers in the political breeze while their butts are on the line... we will need a new military to hop to if we hop out with our tails between our legs ... you can't cry wolf but so many times and then say just kidding when the warriors see up front and personal the loss. I hope if the decision to cut and run the ranks are filled with draftees so America will pay attention. We don't need another wall of shame made of black granite... these warriors have earned the backing of the American people and all they are getting is American peoples back... I say not one more dead or wounded soldier if victory isn't the goal of both political parties and if the ME turns to crap fix it with nukes or draftees.

 

[ARealConservative]

If we cut and run I think our professional military will disown liberals and conversatives alike... war cannot be fought with the press determining the timeline.

As much respect as I have for our men and women in the military, they serve the republic - not the other way around.

 

[Gibberish]

Prez Bush has clearly stated the objective in Iraq... pay attention.

Yes he has many time. I can state I want to be a millionaire many times also, that does not mean it will happen.

When people say Bush has no plan they mean just that. He has no plan, only an end goal. He has no plan to reach that goal, he just had the goal itself.

If we leave Iraq as we left Vietnam every maggot dictator and terrorist will strike American interests at will not to mention emboldening N. Korea, Russia and China. Weakness begs for an asskicking and there are plenty of bullies in the world willing to issue asskickings. Have some pride in your nation and support victory instead of supporting defeat and a wall of shame for soldier to mark off friends who died for nothing thanks to people who think like you. Quiters are lower than whale **** and deserving maggots to devour them unable to kill anything.

So the plan is to push no more matter what the costs or consequences without knowing if it will ever end?

Your vision of "the plan" is one of ignorance and arrogance. You say we stick with Iraq and force them into a democracy no matter the costs or time it will take because only the weak stop.

 

[dragonslayer]

It means leaving Iraq as the model of democracy for the rest of the ME (outside of Israel) to be envious of.

After we have killed all the Muslims in Iraq, we can repopulate with Americans and have a democracy. Ok Ok let's go. 4 or 5 of Bush's loved Hydrogen Bombs should kill most,,,then we can wait 25 year kill the rest that have not died from radiation poisoning, and repopulate with Americans.

Maybe we can turn Iraq over to Israel.

 

[26 X World Champs]

The crap falling out of you gus mouth would gag a maggot... The left has been on the enemies side since the restart of hostilities.

I'm so sick and tired of posters accusing other Americans of "being on the enemy's side" simply because we oppose the war.

It is sickening to read crap like this on a regular basis from a somewhat significant amount of Republican / Conservative posters in this forum.

I cannot understand the ignorance. People like me who oppose the war are every bit as loyal and loving of America as any of the pro war, war mongering people in this Forum, period.

I don't think you hate America. I do think you're wrong, dead wrong with an emphasis on dead. People like me want our troops out of Iraq because we never supported the mission AND we care deeply about our soldiers and do not want any of them in harm's way in Iraq.

We grieve for them. We weep for them and their families. We cannot understand how our President can make so many deadly mistakes.

Opposition to the war never means that you support the enemy, never, ever. Each time any of you post sh!t that it does only proves how biased and ignorant you really are.

74% of Americans do not support this war. We are not wrong and we do not take the side of the enemy.

For all of you who think that being anti-war means we're anti American I wish you would all STFU...PLEASE!

 

[Topsez]

As much respect as I have for our men and women in the military, they serve the republic - not the other way around.

A repbulic votes for war when it is in the best interest of the nation the republic represents. War is a republic issue but politicians turn it into a democratic decision to support... that equals we think our decisions for war are minimized by our decisions for reelection or popularity. If a soldier gives his life or limbs on a republic decision he or she should be assured that the republic will be supported until the enemies flag flies over that former republic or it isn't worth fighting for.

Yes he has many time. I can state I want to be a millionaire many times also, that does not mean it will happen.

When people say Bush has no plan they mean just that. He has no plan, only an end goal. He has no plan to reach that goal, he just had the goal itself.

So the plan is to push no more matter what the costs or consequences without knowing if it will ever end?

Your vision of "the plan" is one of ignorance and arrogance. You say we stick with Iraq and force them into a democracy no matter the costs or time it will take because only the weak stop.

War is like inventing something... you learn from mistakes and try again and again and again because war is a very serious decision like polio you keep trying until the enemy of the state is neutralized... you don't stick your head in the sand and imagine people are still being born defected.

I'm so sick and tired of posters accusing other Americans of "being on the enemy's side" simply because we oppose the war.

It is sickening to read crap like this on a regular basis from a somewhat significant amount of Republican / Conservative posters in this forum.

I cannot understand the ignorance. People like me who oppose the war are every bit as loyal and loving of America as any of the pro war, war mongering people in this Forum, period.

I don't think you hate America. I do think you're wrong, dead wrong with an emphasis on dead. People like me want our troops out of Iraq because we never supported the mission AND we care deeply about our soldiers and do not want any of them in harm's way in Iraq.

We grieve for them. We weep for them and their families. We cannot understand how our President can make so many deadly mistakes.

Opposition to the war never means that you support the enemy, never, ever. Each time any of you post sh!t that it does only proves how biased and ignorant you really are.

74% of Americans do not support this war. We are not wrong and we do not take the side of the enemy.

For all of you who think that being anti-war means we're anti American I wish you would all STFU...PLEASE!

I'll never shut up because the elected majority voted to go to war... not voted to go to war if it was popular or easy or there were flowers or no debt to America... they, the elected majority of citizens of America said in writing I want to destroy the enemy with our military if they refuse the will of this nation. I have no problem with those who voted against the war for being vocal like Kennedy but those who voted and then voted last year in support of the mission should not be drawn by polls of citizens being driven by emotions of the anti war or the press. The primary mission of America once determining war is necessary is to ensure it end in victory... those like you or other anti war just have to suck it up because you were in the minority when the vote was taken. Congresspersons and Senators that vote in support of war should never speak one word that is not in full support of the nations victory... and any elected official that is out voted should join in support of victory... That is not to say they cannot complain about policy but offer a better policy that accomplishes what the nation voted in majority for ...VICTORY over a designated enemy.

 

[Gibberish]

War is like inventing something... you learn from mistakes and try again and again and again because war is a very serious decision like polio you keep trying until the enemy of the state is neutralized...

War is nothing like inventing something. There is no war or tactic that cannot be compared to a previous one in history. We are not inventing the wheel here. We are fighting in a war that has been going on for a millenia.

you don't stick your head in the sand and imagine people are still being born defected.

That is exactly what we are doing now. Stick our heads in the sand while we throw more troops into the pile and hope everything turns out for the best.

 

[Caine]

The choices in this poll are not acceptable.

There are more opinions than failure or complete blind following of the president's "no plan" plan.

What im saying is......
The Democrats will support and fund a plan if it shows promise and it IS a plan that has a chance. Like Gibberish said, just throwing more soldiers over there and hoping for the best isn't going to stop anything. It might slow down the onset of a civil war.... it might help train the new Iraqi Military and Police a little faster. But it will also provide more targets for those pesky IED Roadside bombs and Snipers..... You know, the ones where we take casualties in return for absolutely no gain in our own mission? You know, the #1 cause of Hostile deaths in Iraq. When was the last time we had a clear enemy to attack and kill?
Hell, that only happened during the first few months of the invasion. After that it was roadside bombs and RPGs coming from unknown directions, fired by someone who looked just like another Akhmed on the street.

So, I vote that, "If the President's Administration can give a well though out, detailed and effective plan for the purpose of adding an additional 20,000 troops in Iraq, then they will support it and give funding to it."

I mean, it had better be GOOD. Because if he does propose to send this "surge" of troops, he is going to make Liars out of the Join Chief's of Staff anyways because they made a policy to only deploy each national guard/reserve unit a ONCE TIME 24 months mobilization, which they will have to renege on if the surge is requested. Seriously, what is the point of making a policy if your just going to rip it up when you want to?

Anyways... I digress from my point.... which is that this poll is a farce.

 

[Topsez]

War is nothing like inventing something. There is no war or tactic that cannot be compared to a previous one in history. We are not inventing the wheel here. We are fighting in a war that has been going on for a millenia.

Is war, or authority for war equal to a death penalty trial? Do you say the guy is guilty and after he is executed say will the public opinion is that he was innocent? The war was authorized equally to the death penalty and in fact over 3,000 American soldiers gave their lives and more their limbs on the judgment of the Congress and the Executive Branch. What is the highest law of the land? Treaties is the highest law, higher than any law we must abide by in our day to day life so to pick and choose to not comply with a decision on war would be equal to ignoring if one of our allies were attacked... Damn, I don't know why we have a treaty with Tiwan but if China attacked I would think under our constitution we must come to Tiwan's aid if it meant a draft or spending trillions of dollars or our constitution and laws would mean nothing. All instances of possibilities should have been considered by the voting representatives that voted for the war equal to those who agreed to a treaty. It is not only a contract with the nation but a contract with the servicemember that he is committed to death or dismemberment for a law created by his government. If street gangs go on a rampage and kill innocent the police follow law... police die and more police die you don't just change the law to allow gangs to kill innocents you send more police.

That is exactly what we are doing now. Stick our heads in the sand while we throw more troops into the pile and hope everything turns out for the best.

I watched the prez and what he said made sense to me... I watched Dick Durbin afterwards and listened to his determination that indicated we taught you to swim now we are out of here swim or sink. Hey, that works too but Dick doesn't explain what will happen if they sink...

The choices in this poll are not acceptable.

There are more opinions than failure or complete blind following of the president's "no plan" plan.

What im saying is......
The Democrats will support and fund a plan if it shows promise and it IS a plan that has a chance. Like Gibberish said, just throwing more soldiers over there and hoping for the best isn't going to stop anything. It might slow down the onset of a civil war.... it might help train the new Iraqi Military and Police a little faster. But it will also provide more targets for those pesky IED Roadside bombs and Snipers..... You know, the ones where we take casualties in return for absolutely no gain in our own mission? You know, the #1 cause of Hostile deaths in Iraq. When was the last time we had a clear enemy to attack and kill?
Hell, that only happened during the first few months of the invasion. After that it was roadside bombs and RPGs coming from unknown directions, fired by someone who looked just like another Akhmed on the street.

So, I vote that, "If the President's Administration can give a well though out, detailed and effective plan for the purpose of adding an additional 20,000 troops in Iraq, then they will support it and give funding to it."

I mean, it had better be GOOD. Because if he does propose to send this "surge" of troops, he is going to make Liars out of the Join Chief's of Staff anyways because they made a policy to only deploy each national guard/reserve unit a ONCE TIME 24 months mobilization, which they will have to renege on if the surge is requested. Seriously, what is the point of making a policy if your just going to rip it up when you want to?

Anyways... I digress from my point.... which is that this poll is a farce.

I don't know if the surge is the right plan but it has merit based on what the Prez said and his staff support. I listened to Senator McCain's comments after the prez spoke and I don't even like him but he made one good point and that was Durbin or any of those not supporting the surge have an idea for victory nor do they have a plan for defeat. Defeat can mean a new reality in the ME and here at home... true thought towards nukes being used since we are scared to send soldiers into rough and tough battle.

The prez almost mumbled it but I heard it and it was the key to victory... rules of engagement have changed and that is a force multiplier so the 20,000 will kill what 100,000 were allowed to kill in the past... the bleeding hearts and NY Times will cry about civilian casualties but you will see some serious payback for taking the dogs off the leash on those who were expecting them to be on leash as in the past. More of our folks will die but the enemy will die in droves along anyone stupid to be in the close proximity. The dogs are off leash!