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Democrats love to flip/flop

Hoot, I neglected to respond to your comments. I said from the beginning that Iraq would be todays Vietnam and many disagreed with me, but I think it is clear that certain similarities exist. However you are misinfored about a good chunk of it.

Vietnam was NOT a just war. Our troops were requested to intervene in a CIVIL WAR under the guise of defeating communism in SE Asia. We were fed the "Domino" theory crap, and bought into it. We were in South Vietnam to support a corrupt dictator who was fleecing his people while sucking up to the west. We have a long history of supporting corrupt dictators all over the world for our own, usually economic, interests. Marcos, the Shah of Iran, yes and Saddam Heussen and the taliban too. And to sugar coat the never ending plane loads of body bags being sent back, we gave it a righteous cause... to defeat the godless, communists. Read Robert McNamara's book, which sounds like a confession. The greatest hawk of Vietnam, says we were wrong... and over 50,000 names are on the big black wall in Washington DC.

Despite Fantasea's claim that casualties went up as a result of protestors, it was the stop start, limp biscuit approach to winning a war that killed our people. They could have won if they decided to win. They did what Bush 41 did the first time in Iraq.... once committed they didn't execute with all the fury and might at their disposal, and stopped before the job was done. Bush 43 declared victory on the aircraft carrier, but forgot to tell the crazies they lost... they didn't get the memo. Now we're up to our throats in guerilla warfare, on their home turf and they are cutting down our brave kids. Sure sounds like Vietnam, the sequel to me.
 
>>Vietnam was NOT a just war. <<Contrarian

I know Vietnam was not a "just" war, but in comparison to Iraq, I simply believe it was more "just" because the South Vietnamese government asked for our help.

The Kurds, Sunnui's and Shiites did not ask for our help, the Iraq government certainly didn't ask for our help, and the neighboring countries in the Middle East did not ask for our help.
 
>>It's the duty of the socialist-lib-dems to scratch and claw any way they can to try to regain the political power they once enjoyed but have frittered away. The only way they can do this is to incessently yap and snap at the heels of the president. <<Fantasea

Boy...substitute the words "socialist-lib-dems" for "neo-nazi-repubs," and I could swear you were talking about Clinton? LOL!
 
Excellent points on both issues Hoot. The abject hypocracy of the current administration is unbelievable.

If they would only admit that the Iraq situation was "contained", as reported early on by the newly minted Sec of State Rice. He posed no threat outside the Iraqi borders, and the human rights arguement is so full of BS it is laughable. We do nothing to China. Nothing to North Korea. Nothing to the multiple evil doers in Africa. In Rowanda, tens of thousands of people were slaughtered in the streets and no one from the US gave a damn. So please Mr President, don't insult the intelligence of the American public.

Additionally, the internal affairs of a sovereign nation are not our affair unless they threaten our national security.... Ohhhhhhhhhhhh I forgot, cutting off the oil supply to our fat ass, Hummer driving suburban house wives in a threat to national security. The bizarre thing is, the damn oil that is in Iraq isn't even going to pay us back for "freeing" them from Sadaam. Mark my words, they will merely be exchanging one dictator for another... namely a brand new crazy ass Islamic nation.

If we are so dedicated to the "democracy" of Iraq.... what happens if they "elect" a fundamentalist Islamic government?? Would we let it stand, out of respect for free elections? I think not.
 
It's scary to see how polarized the two camps are in the United States. It's scary to see that people who don't support the war are unpatriotic and hippies, while they are exercising their rights.

Let me ask Bush supporters this. Is it just mere chance that the majority of every country in the world (except Israel) and half of America think Bush is wrong? What do you say to that when the whole world you was united behind you on 9/11 turns on you? Are we just all plain wrong? Or more likely are opinions don't matter because we aren't Americans. Because obviously Americans are better than foreigners right ? lol

Do you realized your closed allies in the world since WW2, the British totally detest the Bush Administration now? 29% only support the War in Iraq. America I'm sorry to say you have no freinds now, only suck ups.

When I was a kid a looked up and those stars and stripes and was filled with wonder. I thought yeah, there is a country who has got it right. (maybe I was naive). The world didn't change on 9/11, America did. Your country used to stand for something, now it stands for greed, war and manipualtion. These are sad days indeed.
 
GarzaUK said:
It's scary to see how polarized the two camps are in the United States. It's scary to see that people who don't support the war are unpatriotic and hippies, while they are exercising their rights.

Let me ask Bush supporters this. Is it just mere chance that the majority of every country in the world (except Israel) and half of America think Bush is wrong? What do you say to that when the whole world you was united behind you on 9/11 turns on you? Are we just all plain wrong? Or more likely are opinions don't matter because we aren't Americans. Because obviously Americans are better than foreigners right ? lol

Do you realized your closed allies in the world since WW2, the British totally detest the Bush Administration now? 29% only support the War in Iraq. America I'm sorry to say you have no freinds now, only suck ups.

When I was a kid a looked up and those stars and stripes and was filled with wonder. I thought yeah, there is a country who has got it right. (maybe I was naive). The world didn't change on 9/11, America did. Your country used to stand for something, now it stands for greed, war and manipualtion. These are sad days indeed.

I see your point.

My dad told me once that sometimes you have to do things you do not like, but they have to be done. IMO, the war against terrorism is one of them. Yes, it's unpopular. The rest of the world are wimps and have no backbone to continue with thier convictions after they pass a UN resolution(less the UK and 29 others). They would rather sit around and talk about it than get off thier ass and do something about it.

If it makes us look bad for standing up to the plate, I really do not care. It has to be done for our children and grandchildren. In 20 years, the US will be popular again. Iraq and Afganistan will be just like Germany and France - bitching about us and turning a cheek... because we let them. We are probably the only country in the world that truely understands what freedom is really all about.

As far as China, North Korea, and Iraq - it would be stupid to have a similar event such as Iraq. UK will stand up to the plate for Iran ... it will be some excellent diplomacy and all of a sudden we will see a news snippet about how they are disarming. There will be no real congrats other than Bush or Blaire giving a speech and proclaiming it.

North Korea - diplomacy diplomacy diplomacy = let China and it's neighbors take care of them as they will do. Again, a speech one day will tell us all that we did the right thing.

China - this one is a biggy. China is starting to understand the positives of a democracy. We are probably waiting on the big boy to pass away before we continue there.
 
Why are you so sure you are right, I wonder.

I actually know a bit about terrorism, I live with it my young life. I live in Northern Ireland ravaged by terrorists for 30 years chippies (fast food restaurants) and shopping malls were bombed regularly. For 30 years the British tried to defeat terror, they couldn't.

You see terror is unlike anything the US has faced before, it is not a thing, it is a concept - an idea. The US will not defeat terror, nor will terror defeat the US, terrorism has once purpose - to keep war going and it does it very well I might add.

There was terrorist attacks on US soil before Sept 11th, there will probably be attacks after it as well.

The truth is your more likely to be struck by lightning 3 times in sucession that be killed by a terrorist on US soil lol. You more likely to be killed in a car or plane crash. You are more likely to be killed by a nutjob who starts shooting people in a supermarket lol.

Where do you see this war going? Terrorism being defeated? lol As long as there is dark places in men souls, there will always be terrorism.

The one thing I have learned about this whole war is that most of the American public are really really gullible. As I think an American once said "Love your country, never trust it's government."
 
vauge said:
The rest of the world are wimps and have no backbone to continue with thier convictions after they pass a UN resolution(less the UK and 29 others). They would rather sit around and talk about it than get off thier ass and do something about it.

I find that quote quite offensive. I am assuming you don't know any other countries history to back up your claims?

On the subject of wimps LOL what exactly was George W Bush doing while his countrymen were fighting in Vietnam lol. Damn.... that is just hypocritical. Just look at my signature, see my point.

France while you think of them as wimps, actually beat back the Brits, the Germans, the Italians, conquered Moscow and forged the biggest empire in the continent of Europe. America also wouldn't be a state without French help in the War of Independence. And also France with the best Arab speaking spy network in the world has saved the US from 3 terrorist attacks since 9/11, not to mention warning you about 9/11.

Well calling Germany wimps is just wrong, they just gave up their militristic way of life.

And the way you changed French Fries into "Freedom" fries may I say for a nation was pathetic, immature. Tell me if the Mexicans piss you off are you calling to call Mexican jumping beans, freedom jumping beans? It insults the intelligence.

Maybe the nations said no because they didn't want to risk their soldiers lives for something that was never a threat.
 
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GarzaUK said:
You see terror is unlike anything the US has faced before, it is not a thing, it is a concept - an idea. The US will not defeat terror, nor will terror defeat the US, terrorism has once purpose - to keep war going and it does it very well I might add.

I cannot argue with you on this. Your right.

But, its common sense - or at least should be - make it harder on the terrorist to do thier terrorizing and then there are less terrorist activities.

Look at Isreal - they have made it more of a challenge for the palastinian extreamists to do thier suicide bombings - as a result there are alot less. I think the pork fat on every bus sure helps. It damn sure isn't because the Palistinian wakoos are loosing interest. Soon, (less 10 years) there will be peace over there with fewer 'nutjobs'. Alas, there will always be 'nutjobs'.
 
Welcome GarzaUK, it's nice to hear a voice from the other side of the pond. It is important for we Americans to hear the perceptions and opinions of real people from around the world... afterall, despite our belief that we occupy this planet alone... we don't.

Vauge, while I appreciate your statement that we need to stand up to terrorism, I believed that you glossed over the point. Iraq was not a threat to the US... it was "contained" as outlined in numerous NSA memos and intelligence documents. We all knew that Sadaam was a brutal dictator... so? Wasn't he a brutal dictator when we supported his war against the evil Muslim regime in Iran? Did we not support the Shah of Iran who was also a brutal dictator before the Ayatollah Komeni and his gang took over? Did we not send money and guns and technical support to the Taliban in their war against the godless, communists of the Soviet Union? Just because our President, without the evidence to be absolutely sure, said Sadaam had WMDs pointed at us, didn't make it so. The arguement that we have the moral and intellectual high ground all the time is absurd and a testament to GarzaUK's statement that the American people can be very gullible. Conservatives continually preach the gospel that the President is infallible and not to believe and support him 100% is tantimount to heresy... aka unpatriotic or even "treasonous" (Ann Coulter). Sound like a biblical thread there?

It is also very weak to say the rest of the world, has no backbone and are cowards is rediculous, merely because they happen to disagree with the unsubstantiated need for invasion of a sovereign nation merely on speculation of WMDs. The world supported us in Afghanistan months earlier, but didn't buy the thin story in Iraq. They were right. I haven't heard our Prez say, sorry... we were wrong, now we'll try to make the best of it. Instead he says, well, we brought down a brutal dictator (refer above). Well does that mean as the world's Cop that we are now charged with bringing down every regime we deem to violate human rights (too many to list here) ?

You also stated: Look at Isreal - they have made it more of a challenge for the palastinian extreamists to do thier suicide bombings - as a result there are alot less. I think the pork fat on every bus sure helps. It damn sure isn't because the Palistinian wakoos are loosing interest. Soon, (less 10 years) there will be peace over there with fewer 'nutjobs'. Alas, there will always be 'nutjobs'.

The conflict between Arabs and Jews has been going on for centuries and to believe that building a wall, creating a militaristic police state, throwing dead pig carcusses on busses is going to deter the Palestinians in 10 years or less is bizarre. Right or wrong, the average, man in the street, Palestinian celebrates the suicide bomber as a hero in the war against those who invaded their land and has violated THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS. Even the "moderate" Muslim views these people as patriotic heros. They have the WILL and DESIRE to continue until they achieve the life they want. If you learn nothing from these people, realize they are very patient and very methodical. This problem will not go away in 10 years unless the fundamental point of what divides their ideology dissappears... religion. And my friends, that just isn't going to happen.
 
one last comment to GarzaUK.. you stated:

Your country used to stand for something, now it stands for greed, war and manipualtion.

The United States still stands for something in spite of which administration is in power. DEMOCRACY. Despite the division politically, we are still the most compassionate, generous, progressive country on earth. We feed the hungry. We cloth the poor. We provide medicine etc. I as am American resented the questioning of US refief to the Tsunami victims, when American school children raised more money that the oil rich country of Saudi Arabia gave their Muslim brothers. We even pay the lion share of the money need to support the UN and the theiving crew that runs it (remember Oil for Food scandal?). The US and UK are not bad guys because they went into Iraq, they were simply wrong. And the true crime here is that they fail to acknowledge the mistake, make ammends, tell the truth. It is simply political expedience to :spin: the results int osaving the poor Iraqi people from a dictator.

So GarzaUK, I value your opinion, and it might sound arrogant, but the US is STILL the best country on earth and it's people have all the right intentions.
 
Contrarian said:
It is also very weak to say the rest of the world, has no backbone and are cowards is rediculous, merely because they happen to disagree with the unsubstantiated need for invasion of a sovereign nation merely on speculation of WMDs. The world supported us in Afghanistan months earlier, but didn't buy the thin story in Iraq. They were right. I haven't heard our Prez say, sorry... we were wrong, now we'll try to make the best of it. Instead he says, well, we brought down a brutal dictator (refer above). Well does that mean as the world's Cop that we are now charged with bringing down every regime we deem to violate human rights (too many to list here) ?

Sure it's week. But is it not accurate? Why did the UN pass all those resolutions and plan to do nothing about them? The only logical answer is that they were not planning on going through with thier convictions.

The conflict between Arabs and Jews has been going on for centuries and to believe that building a wall, creating a militaristic police state, throwing dead pig carcusses on busses is going to deter the Palestinians in 10 years or less is bizarre.

It is very bizarre, again I believe you are correct. But, now that Arafat is dead the process will go forward (as it currently is). 10 years may not be long enough - it was just a number I made up. But, peace will happen over there. The Muslim religion is a peaceful religion. It is the extreamists that need to be put in thier place.

The reason the Palistinians were dancing in the streets is because they believe that we back Israel in every position. We do not always fall that route. Sharron was spanked for the idea of the wall, how they enclosed Arafat, and how they delt with the Palastinians in general by Powell - but this has probably been forgotten too...
 
The UN exists for some unknown reason. They do nothing that couldn't be done by some other organization (for their charitable work like UNICEF). They make resolutions... SO WHAT??!! They make resolutions with no "RESOLVE". Do they have an Army to back it up? NO... they come to the same players each time, the US, the UK, France (yes France) etc.. because we have taken on the role as world cops, and it should stop. They hate us for it, and when necessary, our administration (GOP and DEM alike) will hide behind it to validate their own agenda. The UN is just another excuse to have economically endow the upper class (dipolomatic corp) of even third world nations. These guys come and live in NYC and Geneva like royalty, while their constituents eat dirt and live in thatched huts... and old Kofi and friens steal millions from the Iraqi people... priceless.

You stated: The Muslim religion is a peaceful religion. It is the extreamists that need to be put in thier place.

I totally disagee with you on this point. If you read the Koran, you will see at its absolute core is one theme. Either you are a devout, uncompromising follower of Islam, OR you must be killed. I could site HUNDREDS of passages from this holy book which say one thing>> KILL THE INFIDEL. No ifs, ands or buts. And your point differentiating the "moderate" from the "fundamentalist" doesn't take into effect that many of the suicide bombers including at least two of the pilots in the 9/11 attack were educated, MODERATES who were (dare I say it??!!) BORN AGAIN!!. They found a renewed passion in their religion and went against all the reason and logic that they had grown up with, just to kill infidels (and themselves). Religious moderates and merely FAILED FUNDAMENTALISTS, waiting to be REBORN.

Lastly, you state: The reason the Palistinians were dancing in the streets is because they believe that we back Israel in every position. We do not always fall that route. Sharron was spanked for the idea of the wall, how they enclosed Arafat, and how they delt with the Palastinians in general by Powell

Please open your eyes...WE DO SUPPORT Israel no matter what they do!! Did you see the wall come down?? I must have missed that one on the 6pm news! Did you see them let Arafat out? No they waited for him to die (or quite possible helped that happen). We slapped their wrist in public while Powell said "hey Ari, come on Dude... cool your jets babe, your makin us look bad.. we still got your back, but you aren't makin it easy for us".. Come on, we are so far up Israels butt we can see daylight out their noses. If we weren't we wouldn't allow them to treat the Palestinians the way they do, which is really the secondary basis for the killings (after that "peaceful" Muslim vs Jew thing).
 
Contrarian said:
one last comment to GarzaUK.. you stated:

Your country used to stand for something, now it stands for greed, war and manipualtion.

The United States still stands for something in spite of which administration is in power. DEMOCRACY. Despite the division politically, we are still the most compassionate, generous, progressive country on earth.

I have been to America, I like Americans they are one of the friendliest people on earth, but I stand by what I said they are gullible about government and (if not ignorance) lack of knowledge of the outside world. Example - I told an American I was from the UK, he said "What state is UK?" Most Americans wouldnt be able to point to UK on the map, fact. Scary when the US is the world police.

One BIG mistake that the adminstration and Rumsfield has made, they forgot the first rule of war. KNOW THY ENEMY.

While Israel has been fighting terror (for decades now I might add), they have not got rid of it. Despite the walls, the pork on buses, suicide attacks still get through. Thats why Sharon is trying to do deals with a nation THAT SUPPORTS TERRORISTS.

If terrorism is a flame, war is gasoline - check history I'm right about that. Britain has done a deal with Irish Terrorists to bring peace and stability to Northern Ireland. Winning the Peace is way far more important than winning the war.
 
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You are correct on all points...

Gullibility is a universal trait however. It is not only Americans who blindly follow the dictates of their governments, it is a universal phenomenon. Ignorance of world affares or even geography is unforgivable, but a fact of life. One could ask almost anyone, anywhere on the planet and get some dumbass response, so I don't judge and entire nation based on the flacid brains of a few. It is far easier to follow without question; to believe what you are told; than to THINK, REASON and DEVELOP ONES OWN OPINION.

As you said, it is a sorry state of affairs.... but not just in America. It plays out all over the world.
 
GarzaUK said:
I have been to America, I like Americans they are one of the friendliest people on earth, but I stand by what I said they are gullible about government and (if not ignorance) lack of knowledge of the outside world. Example - I told an American I was from the UK, he said "What state is UK?" Most Americans wouldnt be able to point to UK on the map, fact. Scary when the US is the world police.

One BIG mistake that the adminstration and Rumsfield has made, they forgot the first rule of war. KNOW THY ENEMY.

While Israel has been fighting terror (for decades now I might add), they have not got rid of it. Despite the walls, the pork on buses, suicide attacks still get through. Thats why Sharon is trying to do deals with a nation THAT SUPPORTS TERRORISTS.

If terrorism is a flame, war is gasoline - check history I'm right about that. Britain has done a deal with Irish Terrorists to bring peace and stability to Northern Ireland. Winning the Peace is way far more important than winning the war.

That's a sad fact. But it is a reality. We got a good thing going here in the US. But we do tend to get a little full of ourselves at times. Most Americans have no idea how their own government works. Yet alone how any other nation's operate. And you're right about not being able to find basic locations on a map. I ran into a lady at the store the other day who thought Canada was west of here. She looked a little dismayed when I explained the Pacific Ocean is west of here and Canada is actually to the north. My daughter, who seems intelligent and is in her first year of college, was surprised to find out that while my wife and I were in Mexico recently we were ahead of her time wise by three hours. I told her it's just like being on the east coast of the US, it's in the eastren time zone. She looked at me and said "time zones?" How exactly do you get through 12 years of public school, with good grades I might add, and not know there are "time zones?" I think she's a smart kid, just not very well informed at times. My wife had no idea how many time zones there were total. Yeah, America- we're the greatest nation on earth. When you spend as much on military and weapons as we do, compared to what we spend on education. You end up with smart bombs and dumb people.

As for your comments on winning the peace. I couldn't agree more. When we first went into Iraq there was a lot of talk about "winning the hearts and minds" of the Iraqi people. Don't hear that much any more. Maybe with the elections taking place we can get back to doing more of that and less of the heavy handed stuff.
 
I was just wondering, you obviously have a poor opinion of Bush (and I couldn't agree with you more) but aren't you disgusted with the way your leader, Tony Blair, is on Bush's leash? I mean, old Tony is supposed to be a member of the Labor party. I will admit that he is a much better speaker than Bush, but he has to start standing up for his beliefs, instead of blindly following Bush.
 
Blair is a very good politican and he was liked by the British public, not anymore. People's trust in Blair has eroded, his laboUr party (lol) is completely divided. Iraq has been Blair's nightmare, more than a thorn in the side, it is a constant migrane.

As for being a poodle... there is some people (mostly right wing) believe that the British owe America some sort of blood debt for WW2, that we have a "special relationship", that we have to support America in everything she decides to do. Thankfully a left-wing government was in place during Vietnam. I personally don't believe in this blood debt or special relationship.

The realtionship is like a geeky girl teenager that is love with the school football captain. The girl loves and adores the captain, the captain doesn't notice or take heed of her, but might use her to help him pass his final exam lol.

Tony Blair will win the election, because like the Democrats the opposition has no real good leadership that Blair can provide. I would have liked General Wesley Clarke to have run personally.

No one trusts Blair anymore, but due to personality default he will win. Much like Bush he will win more with his personality than his political record.
 
Contrarian said:
They could have won if they decided to win. They did what Bush 41 did the first time in Iraq.... once committed they didn't execute with all the fury and might at their disposal, and stopped before the job was done. Bush 43 declared victory on the aircraft carrier, but forgot to tell the crazies they lost... they didn't get the memo. Now we're up to our throats in guerilla warfare, on their home turf and they are cutting down our brave kids. Sure sounds like Vietnam, the sequel to me.
The conflict in Viet Nam was micromanaged from Washington with the objective of getting the communists to return to the border that was set with the end of French involvement in Indo-China.

There was never an intent to achieve a military victory. If a military victory had been the objective, the entire strategy and the supporting tactics would have been vastly different. When the communists sat down at the table in Paris and agreed to 'go home', hostilities ceased and the US forces left. I don't believe that anyone thought that the communists would keep their word -- they have always had the reputation for promising anything and then reneging on their word.

True to form, they acted the part of the scorpions they are, didn't they?

Desert Storm was fought according to the limitations placed upon the coalition by the UN. The mission was limited to driving Iraq out of Kuwait. Bush 41 had no choice in the matter. The mission did not include moving on Baghdad or toppling Saddam Hussein.

All that the Arabs wanted was the assurance that Iraq would be contained.

Seventeen ignored UN Resolutions later, boasts of WMD, support for terrorists, the Clinton Administration and politicians from both parties calling for a regime change in Iraq, Bush 43 went to Congress and asked for approval to do just that.

Congress debated the question at length and authorized the invasion of Iraq. The only thing they left to the president was to choose the time and date.

In its zeal to protect Iraqi lives as much as possible, the effort proved to be too easy on those Saddam supporters who melted into the civilian population and were and still are being augmented by terrorists recruited, trained, and supported by Arab nations. They are being injected from Syria and Iran in much the same way that Mexicans sneak into the US.

The Arab nations, all of whom maltreat their subjects, are fearful that a free Iraq will be the precursor to demands from freedom on other countries as well. The effect of the Poles gaining independence on the USSR has not been lost on the Arab potentates.
 
Congress debated the question at length and authorized the invasion of Iraq. The only thing they left to the president was to choose the time and date.<<Fantasea

For the last time, Congress DID NOT have access to the same intelligence that the Bush White House used to justify war. If they had seen the same intelligence, Congress never would've given Bush the authorization.

The Bush Administration picked and chose only the intelligence they wanted to use to justify war with Iraq...ignoring our own NIE estimate of the threat from Iraq and the IAEA which stated there are no WMD in Iraq.

We were all lied to.
 
Hoot said:
Congress debated the question at length and authorized the invasion of Iraq. The only thing they left to the president was to choose the time and date.<<Fantasea

For the last time, Congress DID NOT have access to the same intelligence that the Bush White House used to justify war. If they had seen the same intelligence, Congress never would've given Bush the authorization.

The Bush Administration picked and chose only the intelligence they wanted to use to justify war with Iraq...ignoring our own NIE estimate of the threat from Iraq and the IAEA which stated there are no WMD in Iraq.

We were all lied to.
Read it and weep.


Article

Exposing Democrat Campaign Rhetoric, Part 2
By JB Williams (09/02/04)

The list of baseless DNC propaganda is long and growing. In the first of this series, I dispelled the myths regarding which party is owned by special interest groups, Democrats by more than a 10 to 1 margin, and which party was built on playing dirty politics, again Democrats. Part 1 of the series can be viewed at www.JB-Williams.com recent articles page.

In this segment, I want to address two of the BIGGEST lies being told by Kerry and the DNC.

Campaign Myth # 3 – Bush “lied” about WMD in Iraq.

Fact – The existence of WMD in Iraq was never in question. The world knew Hussein had them, because he had used them.

Fact – Combined US intelligence provided more than satisfactory evidence to support our suspicion that Hussein was continuing to develop and conceal WMD, particularly in those 4 years of no inspections pre 9/11.

Fact – WMD are NOT just a stockpile of nuclear warheads. It is any weapon that can be used to cause mass casualties, or mass destruction of property. A hand gun is NOT a WMD because it can only be used to kill one person at a time.

Fact - Harmful chemical and biological agents are a special type of WMD because they only have one purpose, to cause mass casualties, and they can be weaponized by advanced methods, on the tip of a warhead, or any number of low tech methods such as sent through the mail, or blown through a ventilation system, sprayed over a community, or dropped in your favorite local buffet.

Fact – A lunch box full of the right material deployed in a densely populated area can cause the death of millions of innocent civilians. It can be easily transported, almost entirely undetectable and impossible to combat or remedy once released.

Fact – Hussein had demonstrated a willingness to use these types of weapons in the past, including against his own people.

Fact – Every reliable intelligence agency in the free world offered additional supporting evidence that Hussein was continuing to develop and conceal WMD, including French, German and Russian agencies.

Fact – More than 75% of all US congress men and women, including the two prior administrations, John Kerry, John Edwards, Teddy Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Tom Daschle, Al Gore, Dick Gephardt, Hillary Clinton and others made the exact same case concerning WMD in Iraq as Bush. If Bush “lied”, then they all “lied”. (Kerry’s statements on Iraq can be viewed from the home page at www.JB-Williams.com )

Fact – Chemical, biological and yes, radioactive materials have in fact been found in Iraq since the removal of the brutal Hussein regime.

Fact – It’s NOT, nor was it ever a stockpile of long range nukes that we were concerned about in Iraq. It was the thermos full of easily concealed, transported and deployed materials that we were then, and remain now, concerned about ending up in the hands of a terrorist sleeper cell in the US.

Fact – On September 11, 2001, four passenger jets were converted into WMD causing the single largest body count in any one day in US history.

Fact – Nobody “lied”, they all made the same case, and they were all right.

Campaign Myth # 4 - Iraq was a mistaken departure from the war on terrorism.

Fact – September 11th forever changed how we view the world of threats to our American way of life, and our willingness to wait for the threat to materialize on American soil.

Fact – Terrorism was growing in frequency and reach throughout the 90’s as a result of our reluctance to confront the world wide problem directly. 9/11 was planned in the mid 90’s, and carried out more than 6 years later by a determined, innovative and patient enemy.

Fact – A connection between the Hussein regime in Iraq and Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan was made in 1998, evidenced in the 9/11 Commission Report on page 66.

Fact – Multiple Middle Eastern terrorist organizations have worked together and supported each other for decades. Though their motives and goals often vary, they have always operated under the theory that “my enemies’ enemy is my ally”.

Fact – Hussein had a long history of supporting and funding outside terrorist organizations and activities in the region, and there was no evidence to suggest that Al Qaeda would be any different.

Fact – Iraq presented a unique target of opportunity in the war on terrorism. (a) Iraq presented an opportunity to draw all terrorist organizations in the region into a central battlefield and theater of operation away from American soil. (b) The maneuver presented an opportunity to enforce formal US policy of regime change established by congress and the Clinton administration during the 90’s. (c) It presented an opportunity to develop over time a reliable free nation that would become a US ally in a region of the world that had been war torn for centuries.

Fact – Regime change in Iraq was NOT a departure from the war on terrorism, it was a flanking move in the war on terrorism. It was a calculated maneuver, one that has had immediate benefit, and will have long range benefits in the war on terrorism and the ability to secure the region and our nation in the future.

Many Americans don’t get any of this, and there are at least a few reasons why.

First, for security reasons we don’t share every detail of what the war plan might look like, how it is being implemented, or how it might change as the fluid nature of any war develops.

Second, it has been a long time since America has been at war anywhere, and we have never faced this type of enemy before, and never on our own soil.

Last, in a country where everything has political implications, great efforts have been made to intentionally mislead the public on this and many other topics.

If every American fully understood what I just presented, would any politician be able to run against this President?

In the next segment of this series, I want to move to domestic issues. Most important of these issues is our current economic condition, and jobs.

So I will address campaign myth # 5 – Bush has wrecked the US economy, and # 6 – Bush has been outsourcing our jobs.

Before Election Day, I hope to expose every DNC lie and present the facts on each issue to the American people.

John Kerry will get X number of votes from the “anybody but Bush” crowd no matter the mountain of evidence against that. But I trust most Americans can still recognize truth when they see it.
 
That doesn't prove anything. It wasn't even your own opinion. Those aren't facts, there are no evidence to back them up.

Read it and weep.
 
heyjoeo said:
That doesn't prove anything. It wasn't even your own opinion. Those aren't facts, there are no evidence to back them up.

Read it and weep.
Of course it's not opinion. How can an opinion be meaningful in discussing this question.

Rather than a blanket denial, refute a few of the points, if you are able.
 
What it boils down to essentially is that the current US administration believes it can solve political problems by military force.

Now I could spend hours writing about the flaws about this and previous examples in history, but I couldn't be arsed generally - since the parties or so polarized people wouldn't change their minds even if the truth was smashed into their face. (both sides)

GOP's you have to realize that your President can make mistakes and will, coz maybe you might have a hard time believing this, he is human. With Iraq, he either lied about Iraq or he was incompotent enough to send American lives as risk on not so good intelligence.

Democrats, you are a crap party at the minute, the only time you are united is when you talk about Bush lol, hell the whole world is united. You were responsible for Iraq too, you gave Mr. Bush his war. I am afraid the blood is on democrats hands too. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
 
Look Fantasea...I don't have time to read through all those "facts." LOL
Nor, am I about to.
But I'll tell you what...pick any ONE of those "facts."
Your choice..I don't care.
I double-dog dare ya.

Is this tactic from the Ann Coulter book of "How to talk to a Liberal?"

"If you don't have an answer, inundate the liberal with an never ending array of "stuff" that the liberal has to try to disprove?!
 
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