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Democrats love to flip/flop

CSA_TX

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I was reading a post on another forum and came across this. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry ( D - MA), and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998 "San Fran Nan"

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.." - Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." - Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." - Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F.. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years .. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do." - Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapon stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation .. And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
 

liberal1

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my response to your quotes is simple: they were all wrong! If there were WMDs then we surely would of found them ( we have virtually conquered the whole country). Although Suddam has a weapons program he has no nuclear material. Although I believe that thrusting him out of power was righteous, we now shouldn't be there. What is the point of wasting live if it isn't for a good cause. We have not even established a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq so that claim is false. I would like some websites which will tell me that there is a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq.
 

Hoot

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...and out of all those quotes, one or two mention possible air strikes and missile attacks as a retaliation.

That's a bit of a difference between marching our sons and daughters into downtown Baghdad, isn't it?

Was that really necessary to removing Saddam from power?

If someone says, Saddam is a bad dude, that doesn't mean they believe war is the answer...certainly not this messy urban warfare we're in now.
 

CSA_TX

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I would like some websites which will tell me that there is a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq.
Here you go
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39499

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/2/12/123848.shtml

Even Clinton beleived of a connection

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/527uwabl.asp

Or you can order a book from AMAZON that list "The book lays out over almost 200 pages the
evidence we have accumulated about the Iraq-al Qaeda connection"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060746734/102-9774998-0840900?v=glance
 

CSA_TX

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Hoot
...and out of all those quotes, one or two mention possible air strikes and missile attacks as a retaliation.

That's a bit of a difference between marching our sons and daughters into downtown Baghdad, isn't it?

Was that really necessary to removing Saddam from power?

If someone says, Saddam is a bad dude, that doesn't mean they believe war is the answer...certainly not this messy urban warfare we're in now
2 or 3 out of 19 quotes by major players in the DNC that have been trying to string up Bush when they were saying the same thing. Talk about a bunch of flip floppers.:rofl classic classic classic
 

Fantasea

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CSA_TX said:
Hoot 2 or 3 out of 19 quotes by major players in the DNC that have been trying to string up Bush when they were saying the same thing. Talk about a bunch of flip floppers.:rofl classic classic classic
I believe that one of the chief reasons that Bush was given four more years is that many Democrats have come to understand the hypocracy of the leaders of their party and have become sickened by the incessant pecking, pecking, pecking by the Dem politicians.

The only way the president could have gotten the numerical margin he received was for millions of registered Democrats to cross over and vote for him.

For confirmation of both statements, ask Tom Daschle and the rest of the incumbent Democratic Senators who went down in flames during the recent election.

Even Louisiana, which hadn't had a Republican Senator since Civil War days, has one now.
 

Hoot

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CSA_TX said:
Hoot 2 or 3 out of 19 quotes by major players in the DNC that have been trying to string up Bush when they were saying the same thing. Talk about a bunch of flip floppers.:rofl classic classic classic
That's just it...they're not saying the same thing.

You seem to conclude that if someone believes Saddam needs to go, you interpret that to mean....."So, let's go to war."
It doesn't work that way.

But this whole argument is pointless...we're in Iraq.
How we got there, takes a far second to how do we get out?

So, let me close with a bit of history....

Jan, 15, 1929

Martin Luther King, Jr. was born in Atlanta.

His thought for the day...

"One day we must come to see that peace is not merely a distant goal we seek, but that it is a means by which we arrive at that goal. We must pursue peaceful ends through peaceful means."

Through peaceful means? Hmmmm....maybe Dr. King had a more direct link with God?

Finally..."in 1973 President Nixon announced the suspension of all U. S. offensive action in North Vietnam, citing progress in peace negotiations."

Gee...two things for Bush to think about today!?
 

Hoot

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Fantasea said:
I believe that one of the chief reasons that Bush was given four more years is that many Democrats have come to understand the hypocracy of the leaders of their party and have become sickened by the incessant pecking, pecking, pecking by the Dem politicians.
Oh c'mon...we gotta have some fun, don't we?

Any conservatives out there?

Please honestly ask yourselves this question....

What if Clinton were in office, and we had over 1300 dead, and over 10,000 wounded in a war based on unproven and suspect motives, and a deficit that's obscene, and tax breaks for the upper 1%?!

You'd be screaming for Bill's head. You know you would.

Maybe you can begin to understand why I'm not a big Bush supporter?
 

liberal1

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Finally saw your websites. Not one of them has definite proof and although Clinton suspected them it doesn't mean it existed. Also:"I read the transcript of what bin Laden, or who we believe to be bin Laden, will be saying on Al Jazeera during the course of the day, and you will be seeing this as the day unfolds, where once again he speaks to the people of Iraq and talks about their struggle and how he is in partnership with Iraq," Powell told the Senate Budget Committee. (quote)
 

Fantasea

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Hoot said:
That's just it...they're not saying the same thing.

You seem to conclude that if someone believes Saddam needs to go, you interpret that to mean....."So, let's go to war."
It doesn't work that way.

But this whole argument is pointless...we're in Iraq.
How we got there, takes a far second to how do we get out?
Desert Storm and its 'cease-fire' aftermath taught Saddam Hussein one thing. The UN would do nothing but ask him to stay in his cage. So long as he did, the UN would pass resolution after resolution which he was able to ignore with impunity. His nose-thumbing became too much, even for President Clinton, who insisted that there had to be regime change in Iraq. Had his term expired a year later, Iraq would have still been invaded. The was strong regret among his insiders that Clinton was not the president to whom befell the obligation to respond to 9-11.

Tell me whether you thing that all of the flack, opposition, and world-wide publicity being stirred up by the socialist-lib-dems and their media supporters are making it any easier for us to 'get out'?
So, let me close with a bit of history....

Jan, 15, 1929

Martin Luther King, Jr. was born in Atlanta.

His thought for the day...

"One day we must come to see that peace is not merely a distant goal we seek, but that it is a means by which we arrive at that goal. We must pursue peaceful ends through peaceful means."
It would seem that his message was not heard, or at least heeded, by very many of his followers.

My favorite, of his, from his, 'I have a dream', speech was,"I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

It apparent that many of his followers neither heard nor heeded his words.

Bill Cosby has his own take on things. Here is a cut & paste that tells it all.

It is ironic that he was invited to the Brown vs. Board of Education 50th anniversary by the NAACP. That lawsuit started the process of school integration and an attempt to advance the education of minority children, an attempt that has failed in large part because of the NAACP and poverty pimps such as Jesse Jackson. Bill Cosby, with a PhD in Education, approached the lectern knowingly and what he said shook the foundations of the Black elite present in Constitution Hall, Washington, D.C., home to one of the worst ghettos in our country a couple nights ago.

Among his remarks were:

"Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids – $500 sneakers for what? And won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics.'

He added: "They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' ... And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk. ... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. ... You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"

And regarding the one third of all Black youths who've spent time in jail:

"These are not political criminals," he said. "These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake and then we run out and we are outraged, [saying] 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?"

Among the African-American, Black, or whatever the currently politically correct description of the Negro race happens to be, the taboo subject among the elite is the subject of Black underachievement. This underachievement affects the whole of the Black communities and the left-wing extremist media promotes the most base aspects of it unmercifully accenting the violence, the degradation of Black women as "Ho's an' Bitches", trashy lifestyles based on street drug culture, and Rap/Hip Hop/whatever "music" full of threats, trash sex, and little having to do with the positive qualities of life. The Black's primary objects of crime is each other, their communities are called Ghettos, 70% or more of their children are born out of wedlock, and they blame everyone else for the problems they have the power to solve.


Through peaceful means? Hmmmm....maybe Dr. King had a more direct link with God?
Perhaps. However, lots of folks believe that those to whom God has given the 'tools', and the free will to use them or not, would be much better off if they chose to use those tools. Bill Cosby does.

Finally..."in 1973 President Nixon announced the suspension of all U. S. offensive action in North Vietnam, citing progress in peace negotiations."
That is true; and then we cleared out. Now, tell me what had happened in South Viet Nam in early 1975. Tell me also, if you can what the body count was there between 1973 and 1978.
Gee...two things for Bush to think about today!?
It seems to me, and to many others, that many of the actions taken by President Bush are based, in part, upon his reflection upon precisely the things you erroneously believe he has ignored.
 

heyjoeo

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Fant...I can't believe you would even TRY to call out democrats for flip-flopping. Playing sides and falsifying testimony is a politicians nature. I hate all this generalizing thats done too. Stop assuming all democrats are flip floppers (same goes with Republicans). Anyway, it's the Bush Administration that are the flip floppers. Not all republicans flop. Maybe they flip. Not sure though :p.

Bill Cosby's "crusade" doesn't have ANYTHING to do with peaceful resolution of conflict you bloody fool. That's a totally different subject.

I'll say one thing about you Fant. You are the republican parties do-boy. You believe all their shit and don't question a thing.
 

Fantasea

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heyjoeo said:
Fant...I can't believe you would even TRY to call out democrats for flip-flopping. Playing sides and falsifying testimony is a politicians nature. I hate all this generalizing thats done too. Stop assuming all democrats are flip floppers (same goes with Republicans). Anyway, it's the Bush Administration that are the flip floppers. Not all republicans flop. Maybe they flip. Not sure though :p.

Bill Cosby's "crusade" doesn't have ANYTHING to do with peaceful resolution of conflict you bloody fool. That's a totally different subject.

I'll say one thing about you Fant. You are the republican parties do-boy. You believe all their shit and don't question a thing.
An excellent debater once told me this.

The way you know when you've won is when the other guy concedes that he's lost by starting with name calling and using foul language. That's a sure sign that he hasn't a fact left. But be kind to him. Be gentle. Ignore his deficiencies, you cant really do anything about them, anyway. Don't rub his face in it. If you do, then you lose, too.

So, that's what I'll do. I'll follow that advice, except to remind you that it was you, with your introduction of Martin Luther King into the discussion, who opened the door for a response from Mr. Cosby.

If you don't care for his words, take it up with Mr. Cosby.
 

Hoot

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Fantasea said:
It seems to me, and to many others, that many of the actions taken by President Bush are based, in part, upon his reflection upon precisely the things you erroneously believe he has ignored.
I didn't say Bush ignored them, I merely said here were two things for Bush to consider...Dr. king's belief in how peace might be gained, and the anniversary of our troop withdrawal from Vietnam.

I have no idea how Bush thinks or why he does the things he does...believe me, I've tried to understand. LOL
 

Hoot

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>Bill Cosby's "crusade" doesn't have ANYTHING to do with peaceful resolution of conflict you bloody fool. That's a totally different subject.<heyjoeo

I have to agree...I don't see the connection between Dr. King's quest for peace and Mr. Cosby's berating the parents of young blacks?
 

Hoot

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CSA_TX said:
Here you go
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39499

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/2/12/123848.shtml

Even Clinton beleived of a connection

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/527uwabl.asp

Or you can order a book from AMAZON that list "The book lays out over almost 200 pages the
evidence we have accumulated about the Iraq-al Qaeda connection"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060746734/102-9774998-0840900?v=glance
Stephen Hayes was on a recent local radio talk show.
I tried to call in, but alas, the top of the hour arrived and I wasn't able to get my call through.

Here's what I would've said to Mr Hayes and his book dealing with the connection between Iraq and AlQueda....

"Dear Mr. Hayes, If I wanted to read a book of fiction, I'd pick up the latest Harry Potter novel."

The guy was an idiot, who could prove nothing when pressured by one of the radio hosts.

All those links prove nothing.

So, I'm begging all you conservatives out there...please post any bit of info you believe supports a connection between Iraq and AlQueda...anything, anything at all, your choice.
But I ask you to not provide links, but try to put the proof into your own words, as I do not want to go chasing all over the internet.

Thank you in advance.
 

Fantasea

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Hoot said:
I didn't say Bush ignored them, I merely said here were two things for Bush to consider...Dr. king's belief in how peace might be gained, and the anniversary of our troop withdrawal from Vietnam.
Wishy-washy response, at best; not at all responsive to what I wrote.
I have no idea how Bush thinks or why he does the things he does...
Yes. You have made this quite apparent.
believe me, I've tried to understand. LOL
If this is tue, you have done an outstanding job of concealing it.
 

Hoot

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Fantasea said:
Wishy-washy response, at best; not at all responsive to what I wrote.
And what did you write?

Your last post was over 3-4 posts ago, and was a response to heyjoeo, not me.

I am simply asking for a little respect in this forum, the same respect I will certainly show you, but I would greatly appreciate it if you would not put words in my mouth.

Based on your own rules for debate....

"The way you know when you've won is when the other guy concedes that he's lost by starting with name calling>" Fantasea

You called my response "Wishy-washy" which is very close to name calling.

I guess this means I won the debate?!

Yehaww! Another victory for the Libs! LOL
 

Mr.America

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I think liberals flip-flop on political issues because its a way for them to compensate for their inability to flip a waffle. Just kidding. But seriously, I think liberals flip-flop because they are constantly being proven wrong, so this could push them into changing their stance on an issue.
 

Hoot

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Mr.America said:
I think liberals flip-flop on political issues because its a way for them to compensate for their inability to flip a waffle. Just kidding. But seriously, I think liberals flip-flop because they are constantly being proven wrong, so this could push them into changing their stance on an issue.
I don't believe Dems flip flop any more or less than Repubs.

The Repubs are simply better at coming up with catch phrases that appeal to the masses...phrases such as flip-flop.

Bush has flip-flopped a number of times...going back to his first campaign for President when he said he would not be a nation builder.
 

Fantasea

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Hoot said:
And what did you write?

Your last post was over 3-4 posts ago, and was a response to heyjoeo, not me.

I am simply asking for a little respect in this forum, the same respect I will certainly show you, but I would greatly appreciate it if you would not put words in my mouth.

Based on your own rules for debate....

"The way you know when you've won is when the other guy concedes that he's lost by starting with name calling>" Fantasea

You called my response "Wishy-washy" which is very close to name calling.

I guess this means I won the debate?!

Yehaww! Another victory for the Libs! LOL
I was responding to post #13 in this thread.

No matter how hard one tries, it is impossible to correctly construe one's comment on another's comment as 'name calling'.

Now that you've declared victory, is your it intention to pick up your marbles and go home?
 

Hoot

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Fantasea said:
I was responding to post #13 in this thread.
No matter how hard one tries, it is impossible to correctly construe one's comment on another's comment as 'name calling'.
Now that you've declared victory, is your it intention to pick up your marbles and go home?
Oh, don't worry about it, Fantasea..there's nothing anyone could say to me in these forums that would cause me to lose a moments sleep.
Say what you will...I prefer it that way...as with everyone in this forum.

As far as the marbles...at least I still have some! LOL
 

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Hi I just wanted to tell you guys about some information that I BELIEVE TO BE TRUE BECAUSE I GOT THIS FROM A FRIEND AND I AM STILL VERFYING IT; the WMDs were found in November. I can't rember the date I herd this. On international news website there was a headline about U.S. troops founding a wepons cash in Seria, that contained severial nerve gas bombs. The bombs had originally been from a convoy from Iraq to Seria somtime in late 1999. UN investigators found evidence that the bombs were made about the same time as the nerve gas bombs that were used on the Kurdish.
 
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Fantasea

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Messerschmitt said:
Hi I just wanted to tell you guys about some information that I BELIEVE TO BE TRUE BECAUSE I GOT THIS FROM A FRIEND AND I AM STILL VERFYING IT; the WMDs were found in November. I can't rember the date I herd this. On international news website there was a headline about U.S. troops founding a wepons cash in Seria, that contained severial nerve gas bombs. The bombs had originally been from a convoy from Iraq to Seria somtime in late 1999. UN investigators found evidence that the bombs were made about the same time as the nerve gas bombs that were used on the Kurdish.
This website shows a pretty good 'scorecard' on Syria and WMD.

http://cns.miis.edu/research/wmdme/syria.htm

Are we to believe that Syria produced this stuff solely on their own without the involvement of their next door neighbors in Iraq?

Are we to believe that none of it is on 'loan' from Iraq?

Are we to believe that Syria is not holding some Iraqi stuff, just for safekeeping?
 
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