Democrats block Senate bill requiring medical care for babies that survive abortion

[sangha]

Those laws don't exist, and one wonders why when you consider the host of other countries that protect the fetus from conception with the same right to life as the mother.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_rights#Fetal_rights_by_country

What I see is a host of third world nations, some of whom have a terrible record wrt womens rights

 

[minnie616]

So you defend full term abortions?

There are no abortions in the last month of pregnancy.

A stat c - section is given.

 

[jmotivator]

The purpose of an abortion is to end the life of a fetus.
The purpose of an execution is to end the life of an adult.

Why get squeamish about the process or the timing? To me the words seem interchangeable.

Also, ever notice that the rationale for killing the unborn is really just what a pro-choicer sees as crimes committed on the mother by her baby.

 

[Cramer]

That's what you get when you get your news from the Washington Examiner.

What the law says


Read the actual law

Who needs facts, when one has emotions?

 

[Cramer]

Democrats hate children.

Democrats hate ignorance.

It can be the downfall of a democracy.

Don't be part of that downfall.

 

[jmotivator]

What part of medically sanctioned do you not understand? No medical professional is going to sanction a late-term abortion if it was medically necessary or the fetus was not viable.

From my reading of the bill, it's entirely reasonable. What was unreasonable was the previous law, that criminalized abortions, over 24 weeks, with no exception.

Again with the authoritarianism. Eugenics was "medically sanctioned", forced sterilization was "medically sanctioned"... again, your authoritarianism puts you in the same category as those atrocities.

And spare me your naivete as a form of argument. There is no reason to entertain your stupid assurances that fly in the face of reality.

Do you realize that "Born Alive" wasn't even a thing until it was signed into law by George Bush? It had been the common practice of abortionists to finish the job if the baby was born alive after failing to die in their 24 hour acid bath in their mothers womb. Why? Because abortionists are ghouls who have already demonstrated a careless disregard for the life of the baby they intended to kill. Saving the baby would cost them money and reputation.. so just finish killing it.

These are the people they will be killing. This woman only survived her acid bath in 1977 because the abortionist hadn't been on duty to finish the job and some attendant with a moral compass brought the baby to the hospital instead of choking it to death..



Pro-Choice people will hopefully one day realize what this ghastly movement has done to their humanity...

 

[BWG]

Was Kermit Gosnell a "medical professional" before his shop of horrors was exposed?

And what happened to Gosnell when he was found to violate the Law?

Convicted of murdering three infants who were born alive during attempted abortion procedures; he was also convicted of involuntary manslaughter of one woman during an abortion procedure
[...]
He was sentenced instead to life in prison without the possibility of parole.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Gosnell

 

[BWG]

I don't know if you know this, but a licensed "health care practitioner" includes nurse-midwives and nurse practitioners. Why do you believe they are not qualified to perform an abortion?

Health care practitioners are becoming more commonplace in order to relieve Dr.'s time spent on rountine tasks.

On qualifying, HPCs would be capable effectively of taking medical histories and carrying out examinations, ordering tests, providing basic treatment, patient education and nursing care, identifying unusual and difficult conditions and coping with medical emergencies.

https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/health+care+practitioner

 

[j-mac]

Almost all late term abortions are happening because the baby ISN'T Healthy, that's the point. This is why this bill is just political nonsense.

Do you have a link for that claim?

 

[j-mac]

And what happened to Gosnell when he was found to violate the Law?

Absolutely....and I think we can all agree he SHOULD have gone to prison...But, look what is happening in the wake of stories like his...A push to loosen the laws, and regulations surrounding what he was doing....Why?

 

[minnie616]

And what happened to Gosnell when he was found to violate the Law?

Exactly. he never was trained as late term abortion doctor. He induced women who were past 21 weeks pregnancy which was against the law for him ( the women may not even have know they were over 20 weeks pregnant) then when the born he murdered them.

There are only 3 abortion clinics and 4 clinic doctors in the USA who are trained enough, skilled enough aand willing to abort non viable fetuses in extreame cases , or perform an abortion to prevent irreparable damage to a woman’s bodily function such as ( stroke, heart attack, paralysis from the neck down, kidney damage, liver damage, etc) If the pregnancy continued.

From Romper:

In 2013, there were four doctors in the country who performed abortions after the 20th week of pregnancy, according to Slate. (Current numbers could be even lower.)

https://www.romper.com/p/which-stat...tions-they-are-very-difficult-to-access-21069

 

[j-mac]

There are no abortions in the last month of pregnancy.

A stat c - section is given.

I believe that is what bills like this are trying to change...Given that at the point right now we have a law against "partial birth abortions" or what is termed medically "intact dialiation, and extraction" and for good reason...People are horrified by the techniques involved...It is:

"The surgery is preceded by cervical preparation which may take several days. Laminaria sticks, natural or synthetic rods that absorb moisture from the cervix, mechanically dilate the cervix. Misoprostol can be used to soften the cervix further; an intact D&E can only be performed with 2-5 centimeters of cervical dilation.[5] Feticidal injection of digoxin or potassium chloride may be administered at the beginning of the procedure to allow for softening of the fetal bones or to comply with relevant laws in the physician's jurisdiction and the federal Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act .[4] During the surgery, the fetus is removed from the uterus in the breech position, with mechanical collapse (crushing) of the fetal skull if it is too large to fit through the cervical canal.[5] Decompression of the skull can be accomplished by incision and suction of the contents, or by using forceps. If the fetus is in a vertex presentation, forceps can be used to turn it to a breech presentation while in the uterus (internal version).[4]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intact_dilation_and_extraction#Technique

Human beings can be ghoulish....

 

[minnie616]

Do you have a link for that claim?

Kansas was one of only a small handful of states that allowed clinic late term abortions for extreme reasons back in 2008.
Dr. Tiller was one of 5 doctors who performed late term abortions at that time.
Out of state OB/GYNs who had patients with the late term extreme complications that I mentioned would often send their patients to Dr. Tiller or one of the other 4 clinic doctors for their late term abortions.

Kansas recorded the numbers of abortions that took place after 22 weeks gestation in 2008. ( the 2003 Fox News article states about 100 abortions past 24 weeks occur each year in the U.S.)

There were 323 abortions that took place at or after 22 weeks gestation (40 weeks gestation is considered full term)in Kansas in 2008.

131 of those abortions was because the fetus was NOT viable.

It had died in the womb , it would be stillborn, or it was so malformed it would live only a few minutes or hours.
They were not viaible and never had a chance of living.

The other 192 (22 weeks gestation or later ) abortions were because there would be irreparable damage to a major bodily function if the pregnancy continued.

They were extreme cases.


It is on pages 8 and 9

http://www.kdheks.gov/phi/abortion_sum/2008itopcmbnd.pdf

 

[AliHajiSheik]

Also, ever notice that the rationale for killing the unborn is really just what a pro-choicer sees as crimes committed on the mother by her baby.

I don't understand your point, but I'm not sure I care. Abortion isn't my issue and if a mother doesn't want the child, then rather than the law requiring/preventing a mother from doing something, the law should set up alternatives. In other words, a child born as a vegetable, the mother can dispose of the sad situation. If the state doesn't want the mother to get rid of it, then the state should take over care of the child or find someone who will take care of it.

I think several states have no question asked dropoffs of newborns. I think the mother making the decision with her doctor keep the state from being on the hook.

I don't have opinions on this topic that either entrenched side would agree with 100%, or even see them as consistent.

 

[j-mac]

Kansas was one of only a small handful of states that allowed clinic late term abortions for extreme reasons back in 2008.
Dr. Tiller was one of 5 doctors who performed late term abortions at that time.
Out of state OB/GYNs who had patients with the late term extreme complications that I mentioned would often send their patients to Dr. Tiller or one of the other 4 clinic doctors for their late term abortions.

Kansas recorded the numbers of abortions that took place after 22 weeks gestation in 2008. ( the 2003 Fox News article states about 100 abortions past 24 weeks occur each year in the U.S.)

There were 323 abortions that took place at or after 22 weeks gestation (40 weeks gestation is considered full term)in Kansas in 2008.

131 of those abortions was because the fetus was NOT viable.

It had died in the womb , it would be stillborn, or it was so malformed it would live only a few minutes or hours.
They were not viaible and never had a chance of living.

The other 192 (22 weeks gestation or later ) abortions were because there would be irreparable damage to a major bodily function if the pregnancy continued.

They were extreme cases.


It is on pages 8 and 9

http://www.kdheks.gov/phi/abortion_sum/2008itopcmbnd.pdf

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[minnie616]

Absolutely....and I think we can all agree he SHOULD have gone to prison...But, look what is happening in the wake of stories like his...A push to loosen the laws, and regulations surrounding what he was doing....Why?

So women and their doctors are not prosecuted for having a medically needed abortion needed past 22 weeks.

 

[itsforthekids]

Democrats are the party of death.

 

[jmotivator]

I don't understand your point, but I'm not sure I care. Abortion isn't my issue and if a mother doesn't want the child, then rather than the law requiring/preventing a mother from doing something, the law should set up alternatives. In other words, a child born as a vegetable, the mother can dispose of the sad situation. If the state doesn't want the mother to get rid of it, then the state should take over care of the child or find someone who will take care of it.

I think several states have no question asked dropoffs of newborns. I think the mother making the decision with her doctor keep the state from being on the hook.

I don't have opinions on this topic that either entrenched side would agree with 100%, or even see them as consistent.

I am making your point that execution and abortion are interchangeable. The justification used for killing the unborn is similar to the justification of executing someone... they have built a case against the innocent unborn as if pregnancy is a crime against the mother and couch abortion as some form of perverse justice.

 

[sangha]

Error 404 - File Not Found

Try this
http://www.kdheks.gov/phi/abortion_sum/2008itopcmbnd.pdf

pages 8-11

 

[AliHajiSheik]

I am making your point that execution and abortion are interchangeable. The justification used for killing the unborn is similar to the justification of executing someone... they have built a case against the innocent unborn as if pregnancy is a crime against the mother and couch abortion as some form of perverse justice.

I wouldn't go as far to say that they are interchangeable, but the purpose of both is to end in death. Are you perhaps referencing the "life of the mother" and "rape/incest" exceptions?

 

[minnie616]

I believe that is what bills like this are trying to change...Given that at the point right now we have a law against "partial birth abortions" or what is termed medically "intact dialiation, and extraction" and for good reason...People are horrified by the techniques involved...It is:

"The surgery is preceded by cervical preparation which may take several days. Laminaria sticks, natural or synthetic rods that absorb moisture from the cervix, mechanically dilate the cervix. Misoprostol can be used to soften the cervix further; an intact D&E can only be performed with 2-5 centimeters of cervical dilation.[5] Feticidal injection of digoxin or potassium chloride may be administered at the beginning of the procedure to allow for softening of the fetal bones or to comply with relevant laws in the physician's jurisdiction and the federal Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act .[4] During the surgery, the fetus is removed from the uterus in the breech position, with mechanical collapse (crushing) of the fetal skull if it is too large to fit through the cervical canal.[5] Decompression of the skull can be accomplished by incision and suction of the contents, or by using forceps. If the fetus is in a vertex presentation, forceps can be used to turn it to a breech presentation while in the uterus (internal version).[4]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intact_dilation_and_extraction#Technique

Human beings can be ghoulish....

I understand the intact D and E sounds goulish to you and many others.
It was extremely rare.
From Wiki

In 2000, although only 0.17% (2,232 of 1,313,000) of all abortions in the United States were performed using this procedure,[3] it developed into a focal point of the abortion debate. It was outlawed in most cases by the 2003 Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act,

It is still legal in cases where the unborn is already dead in the womb and the skull would be decompessed allowing the the body to stay intact when extrating it ( instead of having to crush and dismember the body ) that allows the body to be wrapped in a blanket and the parents can have a few minutes to grieve for loss.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Those seeking late term abortions are doing so because the baby is not viable or has a severe life threatening defect. Why would you want the child to be forced to be kept alive and in pain? That is the sickening part. This bill is just to play politics with abortion and nothing more.

If it's already a born, then how is it a problem for the mother? Good job trying to twist it around.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Because there are times that a woman’s life is in jeopardy and it isn’t up to you to decide the acceptable risks that she should be forced to take. Again this is all political to attack abortion and nothing more.

....it's already born. The bill addresses already born babies. How is a woman's life still in jeopardy, what, was it born an Al-Qaeda member? Yea, them al-qaeda babies, 1 minute after birth "BAM!" They'll go after us all!

 

[manofknowledge]

It's in the law. The law only requires a "health care practitioner" -

https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2017/S2796

Also, note that the law doesn't require the imminent threat of death of the mother or the baby. It only requires that the abortion be necessary to protect the patient's life or health. Basically, if a patient feels that actually having that baby that's currently crowning in her cervix is a threat to her long term mental health and the medical practitioner agrees then there is no crime if they terminate the life of that baby.

Within 24 weeks is second trimester of pregnancy. A fetus is not viable at that age outside of the womb and medical care is fruitless.

 

[Praxas]

If it's already a born, then how is it a problem for the mother? Good job trying to twist it around.

Let me know when you understand what "Risk" means. Risk does not mean it happens 100% of the time.