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Democrats Admit Tea Party Right About Immigration!!!!!!!

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“This has the potential of becoming the next major civil rights movement. …I could see a million people on the mall in Washington, on the platform would [be] … the leaders of business, the leaders of the evangelical movement, the leaders of high tech,” Schumer said during an appearance on CBS’s “Face The Nation” Sunday.
Read more: Democrats promise summer political campaign on immigration | The Daily Caller

I cannot believe nobody but me has realized this.

First read the above quote from the Senator.

Now, read my observations about what he was talking about and what was in the article from the DailyCaller.

Top Democrats are saying that the folks who do challenge this bill will face a backlash from, "billionaires, clerics, ethnic lobbies and illegal immigrants." If Democrats truly believe that the immigration bill helps Billionaires, Clerics, and Ethnic lobbies as well as illegal immigrants, then they just spilled the beans on the entire thing and actually proved the Tea Party's case for them. Now, I am usually a harsh critic to the Tea Party, but this is beyond insane for the usually secretive Democrats. The only question is, will the Tea Party walk right into it?

Democrats Admit Tea Party is Right About Immigration: | Hypocrisy-Now!
 
Read more: Democrats promise summer political campaign on immigration | The Daily Caller

I cannot believe nobody but me has realized this.

First read the above quote from the Senator.

Now, read my observations about what he was talking about and what was in the article from the DailyCaller.

Top Democrats are saying that the folks who do challenge this bill will face a backlash from, "billionaires, clerics, ethnic lobbies and illegal immigrants." If Democrats truly believe that the immigration bill helps Billionaires, Clerics, and Ethnic lobbies as well as illegal immigrants, then they just spilled the beans on the entire thing and actually proved the Tea Party's case for them. Now, I am usually a harsh critic to the Tea Party, but this is beyond insane for the usually secretive Democrats. The only question is, will the Tea Party walk right into it?

Democrats Admit Tea Party is Right About Immigration: | Hypocrisy-Now!

I'm not following the logic of your point. What was the teaparty's case and how did saying the bill helps billionaires confirm it? And we'll need more than some silly inane blog post with its silly inane "dems are usually secretive" narrative for confirmation of what ever your point is.
 
Read more: Democrats promise summer political campaign on immigration | The Daily Caller

I cannot believe nobody but me has realized this.

First read the above quote from the Senator.

Now, read my observations about what he was talking about and what was in the article from the DailyCaller.

Top Democrats are saying that the folks who do challenge this bill will face a backlash from, "billionaires, clerics, ethnic lobbies and illegal immigrants." If Democrats truly believe that the immigration bill helps Billionaires, Clerics, and Ethnic lobbies as well as illegal immigrants, then they just spilled the beans on the entire thing and actually proved the Tea Party's case for them. Now, I am usually a harsh critic to the Tea Party, but this is beyond insane for the usually secretive Democrats. The only question is, will the Tea Party walk right into it?

Democrats Admit Tea Party is Right About Immigration: | Hypocrisy-Now!

IMO The idiots in DC are going to pass amnesty,
it'l be a cluster**** and regular working people will take it in the shorts.
 
I'm not following the logic of your point. What was the teaparty's case and how did saying the bill helps billionaires confirm it? And we'll need more than some silly inane blog post with its silly inane "dems are usually secretive" narrative for confirmation of what ever your point is.

Do you really NOT know what the Tea Party's point is? Or are you just angry that I figured this out?
 
Do you really NOT know what the Tea Party's point is? Or are you just angry that I figured this out?

your first link doesn't even mention the teaparty. Your second link was just some ridiculous blog post that said nothing so I asked you to clarify your point. I was pretty clear. I do not know what the teaparty's point is. But don't worry, you did exactly what every con does when asked to clarify a point: not clarify it. so if anybody ever doubts you are a conservative, just show them your reply to me asking you in a clear straight forward manner to clarify your point.

fyi, I don't know Stormfront's point about immigration either so if that becomes an issue I'll ask for clarification on that too but for the time being, what is the teaparty's point and how did what Schumer say prove it.
 
your first link doesn't even mention the teaparty. Your second link was just some ridiculous blog post that said nothing so I asked you to clarify your point. I was pretty clear. I do not know what the teaparty's point is. But don't worry, you did exactly what every con does when asked to clarify a point: not clarify it. so if anybody ever doubts you are a conservative, just show them your reply to me asking you in a clear straight forward manner to clarify your point.

fyi, I don't know Stormfront's point about immigration either so if that becomes an issue I'll ask for clarification on that too but for the time being, what is the teaparty's point and how did what Schumer say prove it.

The Tea Party's point is that the immigration bill doesn't solve the problem of immigration. It helps everyone ELSE!!! If you think I am a conservative you need to look at my past posting history... I asked a question, because I found it incredible that you didn't know what the Tea Party's point is yet you still found some way to bash them
 
Yeah, not seeing it either
 
Read more: Democrats promise summer political campaign on immigration | The Daily Caller

I cannot believe nobody but me has realized this.

First read the above quote from the Senator.

Now, read my observations about what he was talking about and what was in the article from the DailyCaller.

Top Democrats are saying that the folks who do challenge this bill will face a backlash from, "billionaires, clerics, ethnic lobbies and illegal immigrants." If Democrats truly believe that the immigration bill helps Billionaires, Clerics, and Ethnic lobbies as well as illegal immigrants, then they just spilled the beans on the entire thing and actually proved the Tea Party's case for them. Now, I am usually a harsh critic to the Tea Party, but this is beyond insane for the usually secretive Democrats. The only question is, will the Tea Party walk right into it?

Democrats Admit Tea Party is Right About Immigration: | Hypocrisy-Now!

I'll appreciate Sen. Shumer's concern for the political fortunes of Republicans and the Tea Party as soon as I figure out why in the heck he would ever want to help the Tea Party; usually he's hell bent on defeating it. I suspect this is similar to briar rabbit's gambit wherein the Tea Party is to be fooled into taking a position that destroys it, that is, a position diametrically opposed to their own base.

I don't see a political downside for the Tea Party even if liberals all throw a grand race tinged temper tantrum over the issue. I don't think that this is the winner for liberals that they think it is.
 
The Tea Party's point is that the immigration bill doesn't solve the problem of immigration. It helps everyone ELSE!!!
Erm... The problem of immigration is that demand for legal immigration spots and guest worker programs vastly outstrips demand.

The immigration reform bill will basically put everyone who wants to become a LPR at the back of the line, with a 10+ year wait, and will sock them with a bunch of penalties. It will also increase border security.

The only real alternative would be to deport all 11 million illegal immigrants. That's equivalent to deporting the entire population of Ohio. Except spread out across the entire US. That's just not happening.
 
Read more: Democrats promise summer political campaign on immigration | The Daily Caller

I cannot believe nobody but me has realized this.

First read the above quote from the Senator.

Now, read my observations about what he was talking about and what was in the article from the DailyCaller.

Top Democrats are saying that the folks who do challenge this bill will face a backlash from, "billionaires, clerics, ethnic lobbies and illegal immigrants." If Democrats truly believe that the immigration bill helps Billionaires, Clerics, and Ethnic lobbies as well as illegal immigrants, then they just spilled the beans on the entire thing and actually proved the Tea Party's case for them. Now, I am usually a harsh critic to the Tea Party, but this is beyond insane for the usually secretive Democrats. The only question is, will the Tea Party walk right into it?

Democrats Admit Tea Party is Right About Immigration: | Hypocrisy-Now!




No matter what the GOP does it will lose on immigration.

I don't care whether anyone agrees with me or not, just wait and see what happens in upcoming elections.
 
Erm... The problem of immigration is that demand for legal immigration spots and guest worker programs vastly outstrips demand.

The immigration reform bill will basically put everyone who wants to become a LPR at the back of the line, with a 10+ year wait, and will sock them with a bunch of penalties. It will also increase border security.

The only real alternative would be to deport all 11 million illegal immigrants. That's equivalent to deporting the entire population of Ohio. Except spread out across the entire US. That's just not happening.

You don't have to tell me what it's all about. I know. That's just what the Tea party people are saying!!!! They will say anything to scare up their supporters to get it not to pass. Just because it's another bill being passed through Congress.
 
Erm... The problem of immigration is that demand for legal immigration spots and guest worker programs vastly outstrips demand.

The immigration reform bill will basically put everyone who wants to become a LPR at the back of the line, with a 10+ year wait, and will sock them with a bunch of penalties. It will also increase border security.

The only real alternative would be to deport all 11 million illegal immigrants. That's equivalent to deporting the entire population of Ohio. Except spread out across the entire US. That's just not happening.

These myths again? How many times do we have to debunk these? There are very good reasons to restrict the amount of works visas for most professions. And no one goes to the back of any line, that's just silly. In fact they skip to the front. Normally a visa holder that wishes to become a citizen must return to their home country first and apply from there. And finally, we don't have to deport 11 million en masse. We can restrict services to the point where they self-deport. Not to mention we could easily use asset seizure to fund a system of deportation that would handle the problem within a decade.
 
Erm... The problem of immigration is that demand for legal immigration spots and guest worker programs vastly outstrips demand.

The immigration reform bill will basically put everyone who wants to become a LPR at the back of the line, with a 10+ year wait, and will sock them with a bunch of penalties. It will also increase border security.

The only real alternative would be to deport all 11 million illegal immigrants. That's equivalent to deporting the entire population of Ohio. Except spread out across the entire US. That's just not happening.

We cannot possibly arrest and try all speeders on our nations roadways so we will give them passes to make them exempt from the speed limit laws for 10 years. Why not use that same logic to decriminalize recreational drugs, gambling and prostitution?

The "real alternative" is to enforce the laws by doing whatever that takes, better securing the border and actually verifying the status of all U.S. workers and recipients of gov't services. As Romney pointed out, workplace and gov't services citizenship enforcement would result in mass self deportation.
 
The Tea Party's point is that the immigration bill doesn't solve the problem of immigration. It helps everyone ELSE!!! If you think I am a conservative you need to look at my past posting history... I asked a question, because I found it incredible that you didn't know what the Tea Party's point is yet you still found some way to bash them

so the teaparty's point is that the immigration bill doesn't solve the immigration problem. well that clears that up. mmmm, if only I knew what the teaparty considers the problem of immigration you would be half way to making your point. I would ask you to tell us what the teaparty considers the problem of immigration but I see you've already dodged that bullet with this nugget

Then research tea party position on the immigration bill...It's pretty obvious.

just so you know, "research my point" is another classic con dodge. And if it was so obvious, you'd be able to tell us.


I found it incredible that you didn't know what the Tea Party's point is yet you still found some way to bash them

well I'll give you credit for noticing but I only pointed out that I'm equally unaware of Stormfront's position on immigration in case it came up. Anyhoo, the trick to a good thread is to make a clear straight forward point and back it up. You made a vague point that assumed we were aware of the teaparty's position on immigration and you've still not clarified it.
 
well I'll give you credit for noticing but I only pointed out that I'm equally unaware of Stormfront's position on immigration in case it came up. Anyhoo, the trick to a good thread is to make a clear straight forward point and back it up. You made a vague point that assumed we were aware of the teaparty's position on immigration and you've still not clarified it.

So a liberal who isn't aware of the tea party's position about the immigration bill??? Hmmm....You people never cease to contradict yourselves.
 
if this bill passes the way it is now, then everyone suffers, both Democrats and Republicans, everyone. How can 11+million unskilled workers help the US get back on it's feet when the majority of them will be on the public dole for the rest of their lives?

If you choose to quote me, be kind enough to answer the question.
 
So a liberal who isn't aware of the tea party's position about the immigration bill??? Hmmm....You people never cease to contradict yourselves.

Is it a contradiction that I'm also unaware of Stormfronts position on immigration? anyhoo, I would ask you to clarify exactly how that is a contradiction but you have a poor track record when it comes to clarifying your own points so I'll actually be happy if you just tell us what the teaparty thinks is the problem with immigration. Its seems to be the main point of the thread you started.

again, the vague and evasive questions are pretty typical.
 
These myths again?
Yes, self-deportion is a rational approach that's going to work. Not even the slightest bit mythical. :lol:

And again, "self-deporting" 11+ million people is the equivalent of the entire state of Ohio "self-deporting." Acting like that would somehow be economically beneficial makes no sense.


Normally a visa holder that wishes to become a citizen must return to their home country first and apply from there.
Do visa holders, who already have American-born children, normally have to wait 10 years before they can get a Green Card?
 
Yes, self-deportion is a rational approach that's going to work. Not even the slightest bit mythical. :lol:

And again, "self-deporting" 11+ million people is the equivalent of the entire state of Ohio "self-deporting." Acting like that would somehow be economically beneficial makes no sense.

What is the downside to losing illegal aliens?


Do visa holders, who already have American-born children, normally have to wait 10 years before they can get a Green Card?

Only if they're here illegally...
 
We cannot possibly arrest and try all speeders on our nations roadways so we will give them passes to make them exempt from the speed limit laws for 10 years. Why not use that same logic to decriminalize recreational drugs, gambling and prostitution?
The US did use exactly that logic to repeal Prohibition, and many people do apply the same argument to decriminalizing drugs and prostitution. Gambling is usually legalized on the basis of increasing tax revenues and/or providing local jobs.

(We should also consider that the "War on Drugs" is a miserable failure, and that making prostitution illegal certainly has not stopped it.)

Keep in mind that I do not view immigration reform as a bad thing. Long story short: It will protect the undocumented immigrants from abuse; it will increase tax revenues collected from them; it will bring in a large cohort of younger people who can work, which is important at a time when the Baby Boomers are retiring.


The "real alternative" is to enforce the laws by doing whatever that takes, better securing the border and actually verifying the status of all U.S. workers and recipients of gov't services. As Romney pointed out, workplace and gov't services citizenship enforcement would result in mass self deportation.
I hate to break this to y'all, but the only time I know of any group "self-deporting" are refugees who flee a violent conflict.

Or, to think of it another way: The incentives are all wrong. As long as wages are higher in the US, people will have an incentive to break the law and cross the border; as long as the undocumented settle for lower wages than locals, the businesses will have an incentive to break the law and hire them. Good luck making things so much worse that no one will consider crossing the border.

Plus, the US-Mexico border is nearly 2,000 miles long, most of it abandoned desert. How do we secure it, in a day an age when every conservative is howling about cutting federal expenditures? It's cheaper just to give them visas, charge them penalties, and tax 'em. ;)
 
What is the downside to losing illegal aliens?
Like it or not, they actually do contribute to the economy. They work, they buy goods.

The downsides include the massive costs to actually kick them out. And yes, self-deportation is a minarchist's wet dream -- and completely unrealistic.

Providing them legal mechanisms to stay makes their work more secure, and will increase tax revenues. Not really seeing a big down-side here.
 
The US did use exactly that logic to repeal Prohibition, and many people do apply the same argument to decriminalizing drugs and prostitution. Gambling is usually legalized on the basis of increasing tax revenues and/or providing local jobs.

(We should also consider that the "War on Drugs" is a miserable failure, and that making prostitution illegal certainly has not stopped it.)

Keep in mind that I do not view immigration reform as a bad thing. Long story short: It will protect the undocumented immigrants from abuse; it will increase tax revenues collected from them; it will bring in a large cohort of younger people who can work, which is important at a time when the Baby Boomers are retiring.



I hate to break this to y'all, but the only time I know of any group "self-deporting" are refugees who flee a violent conflict.

Or, to think of it another way: The incentives are all wrong. As long as wages are higher in the US, people will have an incentive to break the law and cross the border; as long as the undocumented settle for lower wages than locals, the businesses will have an incentive to break the law and hire them. Good luck making things so much worse that no one will consider crossing the border.

Plus, the US-Mexico border is nearly 2,000 miles long, most of it abandoned desert. How do we secure it, in a day an age when every conservative is howling about cutting federal expenditures? It's cheaper just to give them visas, charge them penalties, and tax 'em. ;)

It's cheaper still to stop the massive welfare spending (to the non-disabled) and all of these "job opportunities" that can be filled by largely uneducated folks, that speak little English, will no longer exist to be that employment magnet.
 
It's cheaper still to stop the massive welfare spending (to the non-disabled) and all of these "job opportunities" that can be filled by largely uneducated folks, that speak little English, will no longer exist to be that employment magnet.
The payroll tax revenues are expected to be greater than the entitlement spending. All they have to do is collect around $2500 in payroll taxes and it's a surplus. And it's mostly their children -- who are citizens -- who receive those benefits. So, they're going to get them anyway, especially if you kick a parent or two out of the country.

Remember, things like TANF and and SNAP aren't that big. The immigrants affected by the reform aren't collecting Social Security, don't get Medicare, and aren't part of the military budget -- the three big budget busters.
 
Yes, self-deportion is a rational approach that's going to work. Not even the slightest bit mythical. :lol:

No, it's not. In fact, during the last crash there were record numbers of those returning. Of course that's corrected by the ones coming to placehold for amnesty. But it shows, if you cut off the money, the support, they leave. And no one said it would be entirely up to self-deport. ALL services must be cut off and the laws on the books must be enforced. No more selective enforcement. However we catch you, we deport you.

And again, "self-deporting" 11+ million people is the equivalent of the entire state of Ohio "self-deporting." Acting like that would somehow be economically beneficial makes no sense.

We're not using a teleporter, so it won't be instant. The problem has been [re]building since the Reagan amnesty. Expect it to take a decade. And it makes great economic sense.

Do visa holders, who already have American-born children, normally have to wait 10 years before they can get a Green Card?

Sometimes. Visas are generally temporary. Those who hold work visas are here only as long as the work is. Visa holders that have children here are generally married to US citizens and that naturalization process is different.

Overstay your visa, doesn't matter if you have a litter of American born children, you're eligible to be deported and ineligible to file for citizenship for 5 years presently, with this bill that would be 10 years.
 
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