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Democrats ‘crying wolf for two years’ over Russia investigation

Grokmaster

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And now, the discussion of a perfectly legal real estate development, by the international entrepreneur real estate developer, which was not even built...is the Fake News/Lying Left's CURRENT "SMOKING GUN".


Of course, leftists re confused by ACTUAL COMMERCE, as they prefer lifelong Politburo members as leaders with ZERO REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE, as their voting history proves...

VIDEO AT LINK.

Democrats ‘crying wolf for two years’ over Russia investigation





https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/full-barrasso-democrats-crying-wolf-064133545.html
 

Spartacus FPV

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Just ignore them, I stopped listening to them after Don Lemon admitted that it was a "nothingburger"
 

jnug

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And now, the discussion of a perfectly legal real estate development, by the international entrepreneur real estate developer, which was not even built...is the Fake News/Lying Left's CURRENT "SMOKING GUN".

Of course as anybody with a brain might have imagined they chose a Russian bank (Putin's bank)for their deal that is sanctioned. So there goes the "perfectly legal" argument right out the window.

In the second place the Trump Organization was still negotiating this deal for Trump Tower Moscow right as Candidate Trump was rather loudly trying to convince the Electorate that he had no business dealings in Russia.

I could go on. But why should I.
 

Captain Adverse

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Of course as anybody with a brain might have imagined they chose a Russian bank (Putin's bank)for their deal that is sanctioned. So there goes the "perfectly legal" argument right out the window.

In the second place the Trump Organization was still negotiating this deal for Trump Tower Moscow right as Candidate Trump was rather loudly trying to convince the Electorate that he had no business dealings in Russia.

I could go on. But why should I.

1. If a Russian consortium is negotiating with Trump enterprises to build a hotel using his brand name, why would they NOT use a Russian bank? :confused:

2. The Trump organization is still a going business concern, and they will keep doing business. So what? :shrug:

The facts speak for themselves, albeit people will still allow their confirmation bias to see such facts any they way they choose. :coffeepap:
 

jnug

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1. If a Russian consortium is negotiating with Trump enterprises to build a hotel using his brand name, why would they NOT use a Russian bank?

2. The Trump organization is still a going business concern, and they will keep doing business. So what?

The facts speak for themselves, albeit people with allow their confirmation bias to see it they way they choose. :coffeepap:

The contention in the OP was that it was perfectly legal. It wasn't. Because it is a sanctioned bank.

Not only is VTB, the bank written into the LOI signed by the Trump group a sanctioned bank, its Putin's bank. VTB is not more for Putin and his crooks than a vehicle for Ruble Laundering which of course made it perfect for Donald who by then had been feasting on all aspects of Russian Ruble Laundering including the money that funded his loans from Deutsche Bank.

Note the dates involved. Trump was trying very hard as a candidate for President to convince the Electorate that he had no business dealings in Russia while his organization was still pursuing Trump Tower Moscow.

As you say, the facts speak for themselves.
 

OlNate

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And now, the discussion of a perfectly legal real estate development, by the international entrepreneur real estate developer, which was not even built...is the Fake News/Lying Left's CURRENT "SMOKING GUN".


Of course, leftists re confused by ACTUAL COMMERCE, as they prefer lifelong Politburo members as leaders with ZERO REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE, as their voting history proves...

VIDEO AT LINK.

Democrats ‘crying wolf for two years’ over Russia investigation





https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/full-barrasso-democrats-crying-wolf-064133545.html


hI, grOKmAsteR. I like this POST. iT IS super GooD. I think yOU have the DEmocrATS rEAlLy giving some SerIOUS THOUGht to your pOInt OF view.


thank YOU for YOUR CoNtRoBuTiOnS.


:)
 

Mach

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2. The Trump organization is still a going business concern, and they will keep doing business. So what? :shrug:
Trump lied to the public about this during the campaign and after. His people even broke the law in doing so. This doesn't concern you?
It gives the appearance of a conflict of interest to Americans, and to the World, that we tie personal business interests to our foreign policy, does this not concern you?
It means Russia knew team-Trump was lying to the public, and thus had leverage over team Trump.
It also gives the appearance its tied to a greater conspiracy of Trump doing Russia's bidding for financial interests, or that Trump has been doing Putin's bidding because of leverage on him.

The issue here isn't that Trump is behaving badly so much as you choosing to condone that behavior and feign ignorance about why that's deplorable.
 

SonOfDaedalus

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1. If a Russian consortium is negotiating with Trump enterprises to build a hotel using his brand name, why would they NOT use a Russian bank? :confused:

2. The Trump organization is still a going business concern, and they will keep doing business. So what? :shrug:

The facts speak for themselves, albeit people will still allow their confirmation bias to see such facts any they way they choose. :coffeepap:

So, why did Cohen and Trump lie about the fact that they continued to negotiate the deal until June? Why did Trump insist he had NOTHING to do with and no business with Russia when a few months before he was negotiating one of the biggest deals of his career?

After Trump has been caught lying about a deal with Russia now you want to claim it's no big deal. Yet Cohen lied to Congress because of no big deal.

And it's a big deal when a presidential candidate hides his conflict of interest regarding a foreign power. Especially, when he was pushing a pro-Russia agenda while secretly doing business with Russia. Moreover, that meant that the Russians knew he was lying and thus had leverage.
 

bearpoker

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And now, the discussion of a perfectly legal real estate development, by the international entrepreneur real estate developer, which was not even built...is the Fake News/Lying Left's CURRENT "SMOKING GUN".


Of course, leftists re confused by ACTUAL COMMERCE, as they prefer lifelong Politburo members as leaders with ZERO REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE, as their voting history proves...

VIDEO AT LINK.

Democrats ‘crying wolf for two years’ over Russia investigation





https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/full-barrasso-democrats-crying-wolf-064133545.html

Perfectly legal, yet sooo many people lied about it. Trump said he had no business dealings or interest in Russia nope, not him. Nope, nope, nope. He had nothing to hide at all.
 

CMPancake

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1. If a Russian consortium is negotiating with Trump enterprises to build a hotel using his brand name, why would they NOT use a Russian bank? :confused:

The fact that you thought this refuted a claim that Trump is in cahoots with Russia is absolutely mind boggling.
 

Mycroft

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The contention in the OP was that it was perfectly legal. It wasn't. Because it is a sanctioned bank.

Not only is VTB, the bank written into the LOI signed by the Trump group a sanctioned bank, its Putin's bank. VTB is not more for Putin and his crooks than a vehicle for Ruble Laundering which of course made it perfect for Donald who by then had been feasting on all aspects of Russian Ruble Laundering including the money that funded his loans from Deutsche Bank.

Note the dates involved. Trump was trying very hard as a candidate for President to convince the Electorate that he had no business dealings in Russia while his organization was still pursuing Trump Tower Moscow.

As you say, the facts speak for themselves.

Here is a link to the LOI that you mention. Could you please point me to where VTB is mentioned? I can't find it.

https://www.scribd.com/document/358350509/Letter-of-intent
 

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Here is a link to the LOI that you mention. Could you please point me to where VTB is mentioned? I can't find it.

https://www.scribd.com/document/358350509/Letter-of-intent

The LOI itself is between IC Expert Investment and the Trump Organization. Both Sberbank and VTB are IC Expert partners and VTB is the bank with which Sater says he was arranging the financing. The two biggest state owned banks in Russia are VTB and Sberbank, both so intertwined at the top that it is hard to distinguish between the two. They are state owned. The Central Bank of Russia holds a 57% share of Sberbank, Russia's largest commercial bank and at inception owned 98% of VTB and still owns 61% of VTB.

IC Expert secured a $10.6B Ruble non-revolving line of credit from Sberbank weeks after signing the LOI with the Trump Organization. Cohen in the phase of his participation when he was trying to deny there was a project claimed the Trump Org had grown weary of the project because "they" [IC Expert] could not secure the financing. Hmmmm...based on what Michael?

IC Expert is simply a construction and development arm of the vast Russian Crime Enterprise that feeds Putin and his cronies and is partnered with the two largest banks in Russia, both majority owned by the Central Bank of Russia, both also part of Russia's vast Crime Enterprise. So when Dmetry Peskov tells reporters that he simply passes inquiries and communications regarding construction and development from foreign investors onto third parties for assistance what he is really saying is that "We do not handle these development projects at the highest levels within the Kremlin. You need to talk to this guy." Which is exactly what a Capo of a US Crime Family would tell you if you right angled into that crime family high up in the food chain. He would say "you need to talk to this guy". Its almost too funny watching Peskov trying to pass that off as just innocent Russian Bureaucrat trying to be helpful.

In true crime enterprise fashion ala' "we have your money, you will get your apartment when we are good and ready to turn it over to you" IC Expert is being dinged by buyers for being woefully behind in the completion of projects and having few construction workers visibly working on the projects they have.

At any rate, you can argue that neither VTB or Sberbank are mentioned in the body of the LOI. I would argue that if you are signing with IC Expert and their name is at the top of the LOI, you are getting either Sberbank or VTB if not both and both are sanctioned banks and you are in direct contact with a member of the vast Russian Crime Enterprise.
 
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Mycroft

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The LOI itself is between IC Expert Investment and the Trump Organization. Both Sberbank and VTB are IC Expert partners and VTB is the bank with which Sater says he was arranging the financing. The two biggest state owned banks in Russia are VTB and Sberbank, both so intertwined at the top that it is hard to distinguish between the two. They are state owned. The Central Bank of Russia holds a 57% share of Sberbank, Russia's largest commercial bank and at inception owned 98% of VTB and still owns 61% of VTB.

IC Expert secured a $10.6B Ruble non-revolving line of credit from Sberbank weeks after signing the LOI with the Trump Organization. Cohen in the phase of his participation when he was trying to deny there was a project claimed the Trump Org had grown weary of the project because "they" [IC Expert] could not secure the financing. Hmmmm...based on what Michael?

IC Expert is simply a construction and development arm of the vast Russian Crime Enterprise that feeds Putin and his cronies and is partnered with the two largest banks in Russia, both majority owned by the Central Bank of Russia, both also part of Russia's vast Crime Enterprise. So when Dmetry Peskov tells reporters that he simply passes inquiries and communications regarding construction and development from foreign investors onto third parties for assistance what he is really saying is that "We do not handle these development projects at the highest levels within the Kremlin. You need to talk to this guy." Which is exactly what a Capo of a US Crime Family would tell you if you right angled into that crime family high up in the food chain. He would say "you need to talk to this guy".

In true crime enterprise fashion ala' "we have your money, you will get your apartment when we are good and ready to turn it over to you" IC Expert is being dinged by buyers for being woefully behind in the completion of projects and having few construction workers visibly working on the projects they have.

At any rate, you can argue that neither VTB or Sberbank are mentioned in the body of the LOI. I would argue that if you are signing with IC Expert and their name is at the top of the LOI, you are getting either Sberbank or VTB if not both and both are sanctioned banks and you are in direct contact with a member of the vast Russian Crime Enterprise.

So...this, "Not only is VTB, the bank written into the LOI signed by the Trump group a sanctioned bank" is not correct. Thank you for walking that back.

Why should Trump be liable for financing that a Russian investment company or a Russian builder secures? The LOI only involves the licensing of the Trump name. In fact, the LOI leaves it up to the investment company to secure their own financing. Also, is it against the law for a Russian company to do business with a Russian bank?

The rest of your post is nothing more than spin, speculation, a LOT of innuendo and a fair amount of hyperbole. Very little fact and what facts you do have all point to legal business dealings by the Trump organization.
 

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So...this, "Not only is VTB, the bank written into the LOI signed by the Trump group a sanctioned bank" is not correct. Thank you for walking that back.

Why should Trump be liable for financing that a Russian investment company or a Russian builder secures? The LOI only involves the licensing of the Trump name. In fact, the LOI leaves it up to the investment company to secure their own financing. Also, is it against the law for a Russian company to do business with a Russian bank?

The rest of your post is nothing more than spin, speculation, a LOT of innuendo and a fair amount of hyperbole. Very little fact and what facts you do have all point to legal business dealings by the Trump organization.

Certainly Trump's position as a Licenser muddies the waters further which is exactly the reason why the Trump Organization has basically fallen out of the real estate business and into the "licensing" business or have they. Each development component of the "project" even as described in the LOI calls for specific "Development Components" defined by Licensor and each with "Licensor's Development Standards" defined and managed and marketed by the Licensor. The Property Management firm must be approved by Licensor. Licensor shall receive a Supervisor Fee for Supervising the management of the facility by the Property Management company (a neat trick).

All payments from Licensee to Licensor are to be made in US Dollars and all terms governed by the laws of the State of NY which brings us back to the use of sanctioned banks for the financing. Any arbitration would be conducted in NY. In other words, that Licensing agreement is a shell (another neat trick). Worth pointing out that Trump Soho was anther Felix Sater partnership with Trump that had suspect agreements and shells up and down the place which eventually led to its demise.

All IC Expert can do is secure a loan within the financing constraints defined in the Licensing Agreement and hire somebody to pound nails as long as the nail pounding contractor meets with the approval of the Licensor. Its a Development contract wrapped in the shell of a Licensing Agreement. I would love to know how many of those Trump has floating around.

So again, while Sberbank and VTB are not buried somewhere in the body of the LOI, I doubt that matters from a practical perspective given the Licensor and the Licensee and the language of the LOI. In fact, I would love to see IC Experts loan papers if they had secured or were trying to secure financing for the project as I seriously doubt they could get away with securing the financing without bringing their obligations to Licensor into that process just based on the language in the Agreement.
 
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Mycroft

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Certainly Trump's position as a Licenser muddies the waters further which is exactly the reason why the Trump Organization has basically fallen out of the real estate business and into the "licensing" business or have they. Each development component of the "project" even as described in the LOI calls for specific "Development Components" defined by Licensor and each with "Licensor's Development Standards" defined and managed and marketed by the Licensor. The Property Management firm must be approved by Licensor. Licensor shall receive a Supervisor Fee for Supervising the management of the facility by the Property Management company (a neat trick).

All payments from Licensee to Licensor are to be made in US Dollars and all terms governed by the laws of the State of NY which brings us back to the use of sanctioned banks for the financing. Any arbitration would be conducted in NY. In other words, that Licensing agreement is a shell (another neat trick). Worth pointing out that Trump Soho was anther Felix Sater partnership with Trump that had suspect agreements and shells up and down the place which eventually led to its demise.

All IC Expert can do is secure a loan within the financing constraints defined in the Licensing Agreement and hire somebody to pound nails as long as the nail pounding contractor meets with the approval of the Licensor. Its a Development contract wrapped in the shell of a Licensing Agreement. I would love to know how many of those Trump has floating around.

So again, while Sberbank and VTB are not buried somewhere in the body of the LOI, I doubt that matters from a practical perspective given the Licensor and the Licensee and the language of the LOI. In fact, I would love to see IC Experts loan papers if they had secured or were trying to secure financing for the project as I seriously doubt they could get away with securing the financing without bringing their obligations to Licensor into that process just based on the language in the Agreement.

Can you show me anything from Trump that says the licensee must use VTB? It's not in the LOI.
 

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This is a battle for American public opinion at the moment. Collusion apparently isn't a crime but criminal conspiracy and obstruction of justice is. We can speculate all we want but it won't mean a thing until charges are actually made and the culprit is found guilty as charged. There are many things that can sway public opinion without charges. We are talking about the everyone against Trump public opinion and people who may be on the fence. Not the everyone for Trump public opinion. The everyone for Trump public opinion can't be swayed; at least in their public pronouncements. Privately, even that crowd may begin to have doubts. So far Mueller's investigation has managed to catch many of the king's men resulting in guilty pleas. The final report may have to come out around Trumps fake AG acting as interference but that too will be a big swayer of public opinion. Even if the tower gambit in Russia wasn't a crime Americans being any part of dealing with a sanctioned bank and the offer to give Putin a $50 million dollar penthouse in the tower is not a plus for Trump. Lying to the American public isn't either.
 

Captain Adverse

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The fact that you thought this refuted a claim that Trump is in cahoots with Russia is absolutely mind boggling.

Not really.

Many of the businesses using Trump's name are actually leasing his name-brand in exchange for fees and in some cases a share of the profits.

Moreover, "being in cahoots with Russia" implies direct ties to Putin and his government. Yet people can do business IN a foreign nation without being "IN CAHOOTS" with those who run the government.

For example, much is often made of New York City businesses (including Trump's building efforts) having had ties to "organized crime" (i.e. The Mafia). Yet people fail to realize that for many years organized crime syndicates controlled many aspects of the construction industry, so that you literally could not build any structure without "ties" to their concrete and transport monopolies, and/or the union labor they controlled.

Same goes for business investments overseas. You build a factory in Communist China, and you have "ties" to the Chinese government. You negotiate with a Russian consortium to allow your brand name to be used for a hotel they want to build, then there will probably be "ties" to all sorts of nefarious persons on that side of the business investment. That does not mean you are working with/for those governments; or that you support them in any way. It is simply the cost of doing business.

That's just business, and anyone who thinks otherwise? Well...let's just say that IMHO they are not seeing things in a realistic light. :coffeepap:
 
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jnug

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Can you show me anything from Trump that says the licensee must use VTB? It's not in the LOI.

We are past that aren't we? The point is its really a development agreement, wrapped in what is titled as a licensing agreement. They don't have to do what Sater has said they were doing and they didn't have to take a non-revolving line of credit from Sberbank but they did.

And:
Campaigner Trump did not have to deny he had business dealings in Russia when he did. But that is what he did anyway.
 

ipsofacto

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And now, the discussion of a perfectly legal real estate development, by the international entrepreneur real estate developer, which was not even built...is the Fake News/Lying Left's CURRENT "SMOKING GUN".


Of course, leftists re confused by ACTUAL COMMERCE, as they prefer lifelong Politburo members as leaders with ZERO REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE, as their voting history proves...

VIDEO AT LINK.

Democrats ‘crying wolf for two years’ over Russia investigation





https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/full-barrasso-democrats-crying-wolf-064133545.html


Nice parody. Thanks for the laugh.
 

jnug

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Not really.

Many of the businesses using Trump's name are actually leasing his name-brand in exchange for fees and in some cases a share of the profits.

Moreover, "being in cahoots with Russia" implies direct ties to Putin and his government. Yet people can do business IN a foreign nation without being "IN CAHOOTS" with those who run the government.

For example, much is often made of New York City businesses (including Trump's building efforts) having had ties to "organized crime" (i.e. The Mafia). Yet people fail to realize that for many years organized crime syndicates controlled many aspects of the construction industry, so that you literally could not build any structure without "ties" to their concrete and transport monopolies, and/or the union labor they controlled.

Same goes for business investments overseas. You build a factory in Communist China, and you have "ties" to the Chinese government. You negotiate with a Russian consortium to allow your brand name to be used for a hotel they want to build, then there will probably be "ties" to all sorts of nefarious persons on that side of the business investment. That does not mean you are working with/for those governments; or that you support them in any way. It is simply the cost of doing business.

That's just business, and anyone who thinks otherwise? Well...let's just say that IMHO they are not seeing things in a realistic light. :coffeepap:

Except its Russia where the chance of getting a project like that off the ground is zero without the involvement of Putin's crime enterprise is zero. Trump's secret sauce is that it takes one to know one and he can play the crime enterprise game as well as anybody. All the lies and cheating and back scratching just come naturally to the Donald and his clan. Just as it does with Putin. We are trying to hide behind niceties like an agreement that does not spell out the two largest banks owned by the Central Bank of Russia as if the niceties make it all better.

I would dearly love to know how many times Donald has used that Licensing LOI that is not really a Licensing LOI. Its one in name only.
 

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We are past that aren't we? The point is its really a development agreement, wrapped in what is titled as a licensing agreement. They don't have to do what Sater has said they were doing and they didn't have to take a non-revolving line of credit from Sberbank but they did.

And:
Campaigner Trump did not have to deny he had business dealings in Russia when he did. But that is what he did anyway.

Trump didn't enter into a development agreement. It was a licensing agreement.

Trump had nothing to do with the financing of the developer.
 

Mr Person

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Just ignore them, I stopped listening to them after Don Lemon admitted that it was a "nothingburger"

Fortunately, federal grand and normal juries don't give much of a **** when you stop listening. The judges care even less. Hence all the guilty pleas.

Pretty soon, you're going to find yourself alleging that every single person who does not blindly support Trump is conspiring to *get* him for reasons unfathomable....


1. If a Russian consortium is negotiating with Trump enterprises to build a hotel using his brand name, why would they

NOT use a Russian bank? <EMOJI>

2. The Trump organization is still a going business concern, and they will keep doing business. So what? <EMOJI>

The facts speak for themselves, albeit people will still allow their confirmation bias to see such facts any they way they choose. <EMOJI>


You as well, no matter how smug the swill you spew and no matter how many coffeepap emojis you use.

The investigation is perfectly lawful, is as broad as every other special counsel investigation, and nailed all sorts of vile criminals around Trump. Anything said to question its legitimacy is stupid dishonesty.

It really is that simple for once.
 

poweRob

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Just ignore them, I stopped listening to them after Don Lemon admitted that it was a "nothingburger"

People are going to jail for lying constantly to cover up that "nothingburger" you are talking about.

giphy.gif
 

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Trump didn't enter into a development agreement. It was a licensing agreement.

Trump had nothing to do with the financing of the developer.

Read it...its a development agreement wrapped in a licensing agreement. IC Expert can't do squat without Licensor's approval. Its actually a pretty slick deal. Though I don't think it would get far in the US. It gives the Licensor literally all the rights of a developer and none of the financial obligation. Would love to know if Trump has any Licensing deals in the States based on the foundation laid in this LOI. I would be less inclined to think Trump Org could get away with it in the US. I would love to see how often they have used it and where. I would love to see if the Trump Soho deal was so designed.
 
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