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Democratic Socialism is to be shunned?

Luckyone

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I continue to see OP after OP and post after post mentioning Socialism as a huge negative we need to avoid. The reason why the Democrats should be shunned and not voted for. How Socialism is going to lead us down an abyss of no return.

Let me clarify something for you. There is the kind of Socialism that is bad, such as is found in China, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, etc. There is also Democratic Socialism like what is found in Norway, Finland, and Denmark

Democratic Socialism vs. Socialism
Both democratic socialism and socialism advocate for a redistribution of wealth and power to meet public needs, not make profits for a few. Both aim to weaken the power of corporations and increase the power of the working people.

Democratic socialists, however, do not think the government should immediately take control of all aspects of the economy. Democratic socialism focuses more on providing basic needs to all people, such as health care and education. Democratic socialism, unlike socialism, would achieve this through democratic means and not an authoritarian rule.

The Communistic Socialist countries like the ones mentioned above with authoritarian leaders such as Xi, Putin, Castro, Maduro and Kim have authoritarian leaders. They are the ones that decide everything. Those are the ones to be shunned. BTW, it is funny that Trump is trying to be an authoritarian leader, much like those mentioned above. Could that mean he actually is more dangerous to us becoming Socialist than through Sanders or Warren?

Democratic Socialism, as some of the Democrat leaders want to have (Sanders and Warren) are not looking to be authoritarian. They are looking for the change through Democracy. Through voting, which means that only the good things of Socialism would be adopted. It would be a rule by the majority and not by an authoritarian leader.

Big difference.

Here is a meme that shows exactly what the difference is between a Democratic Socialist country such as Norway and where we are now with our unfettered Capitalistic country.

Democraticsocialism.jpg

By the way, notice that the tax rate is not all that different.
 
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X Factor

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If Norway is this perfect utopia, why not move there? I’m not saying you should, or that you need to leave America if you don’t love it, but really, if one nation already has everything you want, why not go there?
 

Lutherf

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Right. The anarcho-communists were supposed to be a kinder, gentler version the authoritarian communists. It turned out that the Bolsheviks had other ideas.

You guys keep trying to convince everyone that it's all just a campfire and we're merely going to toast up some Smores but standing right there next to you are bunches of lunatics with gasoline cans that are actively trying to set the whole freaking world on fire.

Your "Occupy Wall Street" movement fizzled because you chose to appease the crazies instead of oppose them. This latest movement is similar but MUCH more violent and the "appeasement" has started to become "join right in".
 

OrphanSlug

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All we are talking about is where we are on the economic line with pure market economics on one side and planned economics on the other, the issue with "democratic socialism" is the stepping stone mentality it offers to reduction of individual rights.

Said another way, on a long enough timeline it becomes tyranny of the majority by marginalizing the minority on the way to the ultimate goal of tyranny from government by marginalizing everyone else.
 

Ikari

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If Norway is this perfect utopia, why not move there? I’m not saying you should, or that you need to leave America if you don’t love it, but really, if one nation already has everything you want, why not go there?

Why don't we work to make America better?
 

OlNate

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If Norway is this perfect utopia, why not move there? I’m not saying you should, or that you need to leave America if you don’t love it, but really, if one nation already has everything you want, why not go there?

I think this is a knee jerk reaction, but it begs the question: Why wouldn't you want the better for America? Legit asking, not trying to be a jerk. Column A just seems preferable...what reasons would you have to not want that for your fellow citizens?
 

X Factor

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Why don't we work to make America better?

I think this is a knee jerk reaction, but it begs the question: Why wouldn't you want the better for America? Legit asking, not trying to be a jerk. Column A just seems preferable...what reasons would you have to not want that for your fellow citizens?

Well, now, “better” is subjective isn’t it? Capitalism has played a large part in the success (understanding that success is also subjective) of this country, we should abandon it now? I don’t want government to pay my way, I want it out of my way.
 

Ikari

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Well, now, “better” is subjective isn’t it? Capitalism has played a large part in the success (understanding that success is also subjective) of this country, we should abandon it now? I don’t want government to pay my way, I want it out of my way.

There's certainly measurable metrics as well. Our healthcare system is ****. We don't have free market capitalism, but rather a Corporate State capitalist system. We do imprison more people per capita than any one in the world. We have high deficits, falling number of home owners. The population is rapidly declining into a split state, there's not the continuum that capitalism would have otherwise provided. It's probably fine for folk in the top portion of the population, but the American Dream is becoming more and more an urban myth for a greater and greater percentage of the population.

We've already abandoned the capitalism that drove America for a good while, we've already given into certain forms of "socialism". Granted, it's aimed at Corporations, the rich, the emerging aristocracy, but it's there.
 

X Factor

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There's certainly measurable metrics as well. Our healthcare system is ****. We don't have free market capitalism, but rather a Corporate State capitalist system. We do imprison more people per capita than any one in the world. We have high deficits, falling number of home owners. The population is rapidly declining into a split state, there's not the continuum that capitalism would have otherwise provided. It's probably fine for folk in the top portion of the population, but the American Dream is becoming more and more an urban myth for a greater and greater percentage of the population.

We've already abandoned the capitalism that drove America for a good while, we've already given into certain forms of "socialism". Granted, it's aimed at Corporations, the rich, the emerging aristocracy, but it's there.

Sorry you’re so unhappy here. I still like it and think it’s worth preserving.
 

Napoleon

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Right. The anarcho-communists were supposed to be a kinder, gentler version the authoritarian communists. It turned out that the Bolsheviks had other ideas.

You guys keep trying to convince everyone that it's all just a campfire and we're merely going to toast up some Smores but standing right there next to you are bunches of lunatics with gasoline cans that are actively trying to set the whole freaking world on fire.

Your "Occupy Wall Street" movement fizzled because you chose to appease the crazies instead of oppose them. This latest movement is similar but MUCH more violent and the "appeasement" has started to become "join right in".

I may quote this someday.
 

Ikari

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Sorry you’re so unhappy here. I still like it and think it’s worth preserving.

I like it and think it's worth improving.
 

Luckyone

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If Norway is this perfect utopia, why not move there? I’m not saying you should, or that you need to leave America if you don’t love it, but really, if one nation already has everything you want, why not go there?

I really would love to do so but I am 75 years old and have my family here and they will not be moving with me. As such, moving to Norway would not be a good option for me. In addition, I am not a citizen of Norway and moving there would not be easy. At my age, I don't need tough.

I am a patriot of the U.S. and I love my country (I put my life at risk for it. I am a veteran) but I have to be honest, I am extremely disappointed in what has been happening here for quite a few years and with Trump now the president, I have to tell you that for the first time in my life, I am not proud to be an American.
 
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Luckyone

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Right. The anarcho-communists were supposed to be a kinder, gentler version the authoritarian communists. It turned out that the Bolsheviks had other ideas.

You guys keep trying to convince everyone that it's all just a campfire and we're merely going to toast up some Smores but standing right there next to you are bunches of lunatics with gasoline cans that are actively trying to set the whole freaking world on fire.

Your "Occupy Wall Street" movement fizzled because you chose to appease the crazies instead of oppose them. This latest movement is similar but MUCH more violent and the "appeasement" has started to become "join right in".

Hey, you can talk and speculate all you want but facts are facts and I presented those in the OP. It was not opinion, everything I put there is fact.
 

Luckyone

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All we are talking about is where we are on the economic line with pure market economics on one side and planned economics on the other, the issue with "democratic socialism" is the stepping stone mentality it offers to reduction of individual rights.

Said another way, on a long enough timeline it becomes tyranny of the majority by marginalizing the minority on the way to the ultimate goal of tyranny from government by marginalizing everyone else.

Life NEVER gives us perfect options. In every decision made there is a positive and a negative. Personally, tyranny of the majority is preferable to tyranny of a sociopath that wants to do what he wants to do, Both are tyranny's but one brings more happiness, peace, equality, and health options. I choose that one.
 

veritas1

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I continue to see OP after OP and post after post mentioning Socialism as a huge negative we need to avoid. The reason why the Democrats should be shunned and not voted for. How Socialism is going to lead us down an abyss of no return.

Let me clarify something for you. There is the kind of Socialism that is bad, such as is found in China, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, etc. There is also Democratic Socialism like what is found in Norway, Finland, and Denmark



The Communistic Socialist countries like the ones mentioned above with authoritarian leaders such as Xi, Putin, Castro, Maduro and Kim have authoritarian leaders. They are the ones that decide everything. Those are the ones to be shunned. BTW, it is funny that Trump is trying to be an authoritarian leader, much like those mentioned above. Could that mean he actually is more dangerous to us becoming Socialist than through Sanders or Warren?

Democratic Socialism, as some of the Democrat leaders want to have (Sanders and Warren) are not looking to be authoritarian. They are looking for the change through Democracy. Through voting, which means that only the good things of Socialism would be adopted. It would be a rule by the majority and not by an authoritarian leader.

Big difference.

Here is a meme that shows exactly what the difference is between a Democratic Socialist country such as Norway and where we are now with our unfettered Capitalistic country.

View attachment 67294683

By the way, notice that the tax rate is not all that different.

Norway has fewer people than Minnesota. That makes the comparison of little to no value.
 

Da Mole

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There's certainly measurable metrics as well. Our healthcare system is ****. We don't have free market capitalism, but rather a Corporate State capitalist system. We do imprison more people per capita than any one in the world. We have high deficits, falling number of home owners. The population is rapidly declining into a split state, there's not the continuum that capitalism would have otherwise provided. It's probably fine for folk in the top portion of the population, but the American Dream is becoming more and more an urban myth for a greater and greater percentage of the population.

We've already abandoned the capitalism that drove America for a good while, we've already given into certain forms of "socialism". Granted, it's aimed at Corporations, the rich, the emerging aristocracy, but it's there.

OK, Scandanavia good! American bad! Why is the whole world invading our borders trying to get in?
 

apdst

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Democratic Socialism is absolutely authoratarian. It's literally the government saying : "Your rights are at the fate of the mob. Don't like it? **** you!"

Socialism can't exist in a free country and the country remain free.
 

apdst

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If Norway is this perfect utopia, why not move there? I’m not saying you should, or that you need to leave America if you don’t love it, but really, if one nation already has everything you want, why not go there?

Because Norway doesn't have open borders. It's damn hard to immigrate to Norway, legally and next to impossible to do so, illegally.
 

apdst

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I think this is a knee jerk reaction, but it begs the question: Why wouldn't you want the better for America? Legit asking, not trying to be a jerk. Column A just seems preferable...what reasons would you have to not want that for your fellow citizens?

Communism isn't better. History has proven that.
 

apdst

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I really would love to do so but I am 75 years old and have my family here and they will not be moving with me. As such, moving to Norway would not be a good option for me. In addition, I am not a citizen of Norway and moving there would not be easy. At my age, I don't need tough.

I am a patriot of the U.S. and I love my country (I put my life at risk for it. I am a veteran) but I have to be honest, I am extremely disappointed in what has been happening here for quite a few years and with Trump now the president, I have to tell you that for the first time in my life, I am not proud to be an American.

IOW, you're a fair weather patriot?
 

vegas giants

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Trump has spent more on US socialism by a least a trillion dollars than any other president
 
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Ikari

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OK, Scandanavia good! American bad! Why is the whole world invading our borders trying to get in?

Don't take things so personally. I don't think America is bad, just that there's a lot to improve on. There's no reason not to push to be better.
 
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