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Democrat socialists stuck between the rock and the hard place

Have you read her New Green Deal ?

I can tell that you are spewing lies because you sure haven't.
I, on the other hand, having been involved in producing alternative energy videos and climate change materials for the past thirty some years, have been aware of every phase of "green new deal" ideas since the 1980's, from the very beginning till right now.

I began working with Emmy Award winner Nancy Pearlman* in 1984, on EcoNews, which back then was "the nation's only regularly scheduled weekly environmental news program". Back then, Emmy's for cable shows were called "Cable Ace Awards" but Nancy was one of the first winners.

Original EcoNews one sheet

So tell me, tell me all about how much you actually KNOW about the "Green New Deal", that didn't come from the mouth of a pundit.

*I have not had the pleasure of working with Ms. Pearlman recently, my last project with her was in 1993.
 
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Here's the GPUSA text, I'll wait while you pull up the word "nationalize, nationalization, nationalizing or nationalized" anywhere in the text, being aware that this is not even AOC's version, which I am still looking for.
Do YOU HAVE access to a copy as endorsed by AOC? FULL TEXT?

Let's see it if you do, because I don't think you've ever laid eyes on it.

Ahhhhh, here it is, right on her website!

See if you can find the word "nationalize" somewhere in there.

Medicare for all is the Nationalization of our Healthcare system which is part of her New Green Deal. If it's anything like Sanders plan it's a complete Govt take over of our healthcare industry which includes forcing Doctors and other Healthcare professionals to accept wages and compensation dictated by Medicare.( govt.)

The "public banks " that provide the " low interest loans " and grants that are supposed to pay for all the mandated energy's efficient upgrades on ALL Residential band Commercial properties are actually State run Banks

She wants to force US Auto manufacturers to build zero emission vehicles only, and then force Americans to buy those POS cars.
So the Govt dictates Production but the factory is privately owned. Doesn't matter because manufacturers will either go bankrupt or move operations overseas. Also when you're unemployed you don't really need a car.

83% of US power plants rely on fossil fuels to generate electrity. Those will be shut down within a decade and be replaced with renewable energy sources.... Lol !! That's not event technically possible.

And her basic income guarantee for the millions that will lose their jobs is her way of saying, " were sorry we made you lose your job and everything else you own. Here's 12000 dollars a year "

I read there was a lot of support for this ? Did Trumps win over Hillary force Democrat IQs to drop 50 points ?
 
One can only hope socialists like Ocasio can learn something from the collapse of Venezuela due to socialist foolishness.

That is her agenda, and Bernie's too. Their agenda if ever implemented would be catastrophic. The US economy would collapse and our military would be gutted.

Someone did the numbers and her jobs guarantee and Bernie's Medicare for all plan would cost 7.6 trillion dollars a year
Total spending in 2018 was just over 4 trillion. It's about a 175% increase in annual spending which means tax increases of 175%

She knows her New Green Deal will cause massive jobs losses she added a jobs guarantee that pays 12000 dollars a year for each person

83% of our electricity comes from fossil fuels. She wants those power plants shut down and replaced with renewable energy sources and wants it done within 10 years

It's not even technically possible.

This will happen while our global adversaries continue to grow their economies and militaries by continuing to rely on fossil fuels.

Sanders and Occasio are Socialist, anti-American.
If the US invited China, Russia, North Korea or Iran to come up with a energy policy for the US, it would probably look a lot like her New Green Deal.
 
I think Trump and his advisers know the world leaders must stay involved in some of the troubled affairs of other nations subject to seizure by corrupt operators in rogue states. If the wrong actors seize control of Venezuela then Venezuela could very quickly become the launch pad of a very serious threat to the continental US.

Finally a point I can agree with you. People are way too nearsighted in this global world. If the united states just lets russia move on into venezuela and do nothing. I would bet my arms and legs Putin wouldn't stop there. He would do his best to extend an iron curtain around as many south american countries he could and cause unrest in as many as he could. Although I disagree with you on one point, trump's advisors know we must stay involved. Trump really is not all that smart when it comes to governing and world affairs.
 
There are no sides in Venezuela that aren't a threat to the US in some way. Again, you just like Trump interfering because you are a Trump supporter so nothing that Trump does you disagree with.

You accuse me and Trump of wrongdoing and yet you have no support form leftist friends or politicians, like AOC, who don't know what to think.
 
Daily Caller not a go to source for progressives . It remains to be seen to what extent we intervene in Venezuela. We have a spotty record when it comes to picking other countries leaders when no democratically recognized vote was held. Its anyone's guess how this will turn out. I think AOC is simply expressing an opinion that a leader should be determined by a fair uncorrupted election.

Nonsense. AOC has expressed no opinion at all, likely because she is conflicted by the fact that socialist idealism like hers brought the nation of Venezuela to the brink of this disaster in the first place.

Democrats of whatever progressive degree see this through the same lens as Republicans. Compassion for a population whose world has been turned up side down into crises. We just hope some measure of good will ultimately gain power. Conservatives gleefully squeal about Socialism or Communism and more than imply that Social Democrats have some kind of affinity for Communism or failed Socialist governments. Social Democrats in America don't want the government to own the means of production. We are a Capitalist free market system paired with social programs. That's been the system for a long time. Its not going to change.

Maybe you are right and idealogues in Venezuela carried their socialist agenda too far and brought down the house of Venezuela because of it. For myself I see no reason to change traditional American government in the slightest with risky social experiments like those tried in Venezuela. Leave America alone, socialist idealogues. America was not broken before you came to try to 'fix' it.
 
We should lift the sanctions (which are an act of war) & stay the hell out of the country. Let those people decide what government they want.

Also 80% of business in VZ is privately owed. So its not as socialists as you may think.

Opinions are valuable. They can be thrown into the mix of opinions our leaders deal with in order to make wise decisions, even if our leaders cannot specifically follow every different opinion no matter how many people may or may not subscribe to that opinion.
 
Wait, has AOC become President? No? OK then, carry on.

She is too young to run for president. Thank God. We can see by her ignorance and/or inability to properly assess foreign affairs and devise solutions to the many problems why our forefathers established a requirement for candidates to be much older before running for president.
 
Who cares? Why do Americans need to pick a side for Venezuela?

You're right. Why should Americans give a **** about innocent people having to get their next meal out of a garbage can because their own government screwed up their country?
 
Except that it is not accurate to use a brush that large and blunt to describe an American Democrat with center-left social democrat leanings as the exact equivalent of a despotic dictator in a Latin American country that subscribes to "Bolivarian/Marxist" confiscatory socialism.

It's like putting a Volkswagen Beetle next to a Bugatti Veyron and calling them both "Bugs".

se-image-737573f35ce16a51ec17ce1f0368736.jpg


A VW Beetle is a 53 horsepower German economy car popularized by the nickname "Bug" which came with an original price tag under two thousand dollars and which had a top speed of around 75 mph (65 recommended to extend engine life) and was extolled as "the People's Car".

The Bugatti Veyron is a 1500 horsepower luxury "hypercar", ALSO made by Volkswagen (Bugatti is owned by VW) which has a top speed of nearly 270 miles per hour, has TEN radiators, four turbos and sixteen cylinders, and a price tag of over two million dollars.

It's like putting a Sears riding lawnmower next to a John Deere 9620R and calling them both "garden tractors".

full_size_20924158_large_39752.jpg


I'm not demanding that you accept Ocasio-Cortez, I am suggesting that the notion that she adheres to the values of Hugo Chavez and has plans to attempt implementing Venezuelan socialism in America is absurd.

It's beyond hyperbole. There isn't even a word in the English language to describe something that far off the scale exaggerated.

All I suggested was that baby socialists in America could learn a thing or two from what adult socialists have done to damage Venezuela with socialist idealism.


ocasio corte venezuela socialism.jpg
 
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What do American democrat socialists have to say about Venezuela? Nothing. What can they say?

OCASIO-CORTEZ DECLINES TO PICK SIDES IN VENEZUELA FIGHT AS DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISTS DEMAND SHE RESIST 'AMERICAN IMPERIALISM.'

https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/24/ocasio-cortez-venezuela-maduro-trump/

Which side are American socialists on in the fight, Trump's man or Putin's man?

As always, I support the man that the Venezuelan people support. That seems to be Trump's man at the moment, but apparently the Venezuelan military has yet to be convinced.

It amazes me how many conservatives on forums like this one don't understand the vast difference between the so-called socialism of Maduro and the type of Democratic Socialism that many leftists support. Compare Venezuela with Norway, Denmark, and other western democracies. Learn the difference.
 
Opinions are valuable. They can be thrown into the mix of opinions our leaders deal with in order to make wise decisions, even if our leaders cannot specifically follow every different opinion no matter how many people may or may not subscribe to that opinion.

Nice, did you write that?


But are our leaders wise enough or care enough to allow the court of public opinion be heard?
 
Neither side, another corrupt government screwing its people.

And one that many democrats including Bernie Sanders have cited as a model back when things were good. The left in the United States has done this for decades, they praised Fidel Castro, in the 20s leftist artists were travelling to the USSR and the New York times won a pulitzer prize for denying the famine in Ukraine, and they're never held to task for this.
 
Who cares? Why do Americans need to pick a side for Venezuela?

Because, oil. And Putin is trying to use the situation to gain a toehold on our continent.
 
Start worrying about America and stop trying to distract with bull****.

You can't say much about a foreign country when you can't even run your own.

Well considering the US is not a failed state where people eat dogs and zoo animals to survive and we don't have a pro-communist prime minister unlike certain countries to the north of us, I think we're running our own just fine.
 
As always, I support the man that the Venezuelan people support. That seems to be Trump's man at the moment, but apparently the Venezuelan military has yet to be convinced.

It amazes me how many conservatives on forums like this one don't understand the vast difference between the so-called socialism of Maduro and the type of Democratic Socialism that many leftists support. Compare Venezuela with Norway, Denmark, and other western democracies. Learn the difference.

Except no American leftists actually support those systems. To be like Norway the US would have to immediately open up all offshore oil fields to drilling and forests to logging, and all of the Nordic countries impose incredibly low taxes on businesses and the state of regulation is low, until the Trump tax cuts business taxes in the US were far higher and the dems want to reverse those cuts.

The Nordic countries work by taxing individuals at insanely high rates and providing massive social welfare programs, but frankly I would rather keep my own income and save for my own retirement and buy my own insurance and I think it's perfectly acceptable that other people who don't manage their money well end up sh!t creek without a paddle.
 
Except that it is not accurate to use a brush that large and blunt to describe an American Democrat with center-left social democrat leanings as the exact equivalent of a despotic dictator in a Latin American country that subscribes to "Bolivarian/Marxist" confiscatory socialism.

It's like putting a Volkswagen Beetle next to a Bugatti Veyron and calling them both "Bugs".

se-image-737573f35ce16a51ec17ce1f03688736.jpg


A VW Beetle is a 53 horsepower German economy car popularized by the nickname "Bug" which came with an original price tag under two thousand dollars and which had a top speed of around 75 mph (65 recommended to extend engine life) and was extolled as "the People's Car".

The Bugatti Veyron is a 1500 horsepower luxury "hypercar", ALSO made by Volkswagen (Bugatti is owned by VW) which has a top speed of nearly 270 miles per hour, has TEN radiators, four turbos and sixteen cylinders, and a price tag of over two million dollars.

It's like putting a Sears riding lawnmower next to a John Deere 9620R and calling them both "garden tractors".

full_size_20924158_large_39752.jpg


I'm not demanding that you accept Ocasio-Cortez, I am suggesting that the notion that she adheres to the values of Hugo Chavez and has plans to attempt implementing Venezuelan socialism in America is absurd.

It's beyond hyperbole. There isn't even a word in the English language to describe something that far off the scale exaggerated.

Except she's defending Maduro and her political movement has supported Chavez in the past. It's not that absurd at all. Bernie Sanders went to Venezuela during Chavez and said "the american dream is alive in Venezuela".
 
I think Trump and his advisers know the world leaders must stay involved in some of the troubled affairs of other nations subject to seizure by corrupt operators in rogue states. If the wrong actors seize control of Venezuela then Venezuela could very quickly become the launch pad of a very serious threat to the continental US.

On that, I agree with you. Putin would love to gain a toehold on this continent.
 
That is her agenda, and Bernie's too. Their agenda if ever implemented would be catastrophic. The US economy would collapse and our military would be gutted.

Someone did the numbers and her jobs guarantee and Bernie's Medicare for all plan would cost 7.6 trillion dollars a year
Total spending in 2018 was just over 4 trillion. It's about a 175% increase in annual spending which means tax increases of 175%

She knows her New Green Deal will cause massive jobs losses she added a jobs guarantee that pays 12000 dollars a year for each person

83% of our electricity comes from fossil fuels. She wants those power plants shut down and replaced with renewable energy sources and wants it done within 10 years

It's not even technically possible.

This will happen while our global adversaries continue to grow their economies and militaries by continuing to rely on fossil fuels.

Sanders and Occasio are Socialist, anti-American.
If the US invited China, Russia, North Korea or Iran to come up with a energy policy for the US, it would probably look a lot like her New Green Deal.

She is young. She is pretty. She has so little wisdom and understanding.


ocasio cortez have you accepted the state as your lord and savior.jpg
 
One can only hope socialists like Ocasio can learn something from the collapse of Venezuela due to socialist foolishness.

Corruption is the problem. Pure socialism, on a large scale, is also difficult to work effectively, if at all.

Democratic socialism, in many european countries, works quite well.
America just need a little more socialism, in her capitalism.
 
As always, I support the man that the Venezuelan people support. That seems to be Trump's man at the moment, but apparently the Venezuelan military has yet to be convinced.

It amazes me how many conservatives on forums like this one don't understand the vast difference between the so-called socialism of Maduro and the type of Democratic Socialism that many leftists support. Compare Venezuela with Norway, Denmark, and other western democracies. Learn the difference.

I compare other national governments with America as originally established and improved over nearly 200 years. We don't need the modern socialist improvements a handful of wierdos now think should be made.
 
Nice, did you write that?

But are our leaders wise enough or care enough to allow the court of public opinion be heard?

The "court of public opinion" is misleading. It should more properly be said to be the "court of varying public opinions."
 
On that, I agree with you. Putin would love to gain a toehold on this continent.

I think we can all agree Trump will not be letting Putin gain that hold in Venezuela.
 
Corruption is the problem. Pure socialism, on a large scale, is also difficult to work effectively, if at all.

Democratic socialism, in many european countries, works quite well.
America just need a little more socialism, in her capitalism.

America is not broken and democrat socialists or communists do not need to try to 'fix' anything.
 
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