Harry Guerrilla
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2008
- Messages
- 28,951
- Reaction score
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- Male
- Political Leaning
- Libertarian
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A senior Senate Democrat said Tuesday he would consider taxing U.S. workers on their employer-sponsored health insurance to help pay for extending coverage to millions of uninsured Americans.
Most U.S. workers with health insurance get it through their employers -- 160 million of them -- although recent surveys have shown that number is declining as businesses try to cope with the rapidly rising cost of insurance.
The employer-provided benefit is not taxed as income and critics say the tax break encourages workers to seek a more generous benefit package than they might want if it was taxed.
In the budget he submitted to Congress last week, Obama proposed setting aside $634 billion for his promised health care overhaul. He proposed raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans to help pay for it.
This is a subversive move to push people on to government health care by making it way more expensive to be privately insured.
Harry Guerrilla said:If you can't take care of yourself don't worry the government will make everyone else pay for it.
chevydriver1123 said:My paycheck gets raped enough in taxes as it is, why the **** should I have to pay for someone's elses insurance.
I am appalled that I'm the first one to agree with this, as this is a big part of the reason that health care benefits became so expensive and inefficient in the first place. This is NOT a terrible idea. This is an excellent idea, as economists of nearly any political stripe will tell you. Allow me to address these points one at a time:
And I am appalled by your following statement.I am appalled that I'm the first one to agree with this, ...
This is NOT a terrible idea.
I disagree.... as this is a big part of the reason that health care benefits became so expensive and inefficient in the first place.
Yeah ok.This is an excellent idea, as economists of nearly any political stripe will tell you.
Resposibility?The only reason health care wound up being the employer's responsibility in the first place was because no one pays taxes on them.
No it isn't, and hasn't, been.This is the essence of government and has been for millennia.
Other the the outrageous healthcare prices driven up by insurance companies to increase their market share, I agree we do have an outstanding quality of health care.We have an outstanding healthcare system, the best in the world, and it works perfectly fine for those of us who are responsible enough to purchase it.
Furthermore, the treatment of illegal aliens should be on a cash and carry basis.
We cannot continue to give free healthcare to people who are here illegally.
So do you deny someone health care until they can be proven to be a citizen of the United States and/or have health care coverage? What about in an emergency life/death situation (ex: person brought in from an accident)?
We could easily bring healthcare costs under control, if hospitals were allowed to refer non emergency situations to county health departments.
Emergency treatments could be billed to the county.
We shouldn't have to pay any taxes on healthcare period.
GottaHurt said:We have an outstanding healthcare system, the best in the world, and it works perfectly fine for those of us who are responsible enough to purchase it.
GottaHurt said:The increasing healthcare costs that we, the responsible people are being burdened with, is from the irresponsible who sponge off the system, and are coddled by the liberals who dupe them in believing they are entitled to free healthcare, in exchange for their vote.
GottaHurt said:We already have free healthcare in this country, it's called the County Health Department.
Here's the Dade-Miami County Health Department.
Take a second to look at all the services they offer.
We could easily bring healthcare costs under control, if hospitals were allowed to refer non emergency situations to county health departments.
GottaHurt said:Emergency treatments could be billed to the county.
GottaHurt said:Furthermore, the treatment of illegal aliens should be on a cash and carry basis.
We cannot continue to give free healthcare to people who are here illegally.
I am reluctant to accept any plan that will have me paying for the health benefits of someone who chooses not work and earn their own way (welfare).
Gibberish said:At the same time I am very much open to anything that can remove the health industry from being dominated by high paying insurance companies focused on keeping health care at a price so outrageous that the average American has no possible chances to have health care without paying an insurance company.
Had you read and comprehended my post, you would have understood the following points I made:
I disagree.
The it is a minor problem that could have been solved with a totally free market system.
Coolguy said:Yeah ok.
Just as economists of nearly every political stripe will tell you otherwise.
Coolguy said:Resposibility?
Not a responsibility but what the tax code allowed and therefore implemented by employers to make a business more competitive.
Coolguy said:No it isn't, and hasn't, been.
The essence of Government is to 'govern', not 'take care of', or provide 'support' to it's citizens.
I agree they need to be helped. I do not agree with taxing me to do it. The price of insurance and/or health care directly needs to be lowered to manageable levels so that an employer isn't required for someone to have health care.Yes, some people choose not to work and earn their own way. What about the other 90% of people without health insurance or with crappy health insurance?
This would definitely be a step in the right direction. It obviously wouldn't get rid of the insurance companies, but it would at least take employers out of the equation. Most employers would stop offering health insurance benefits entirely if the government didn't distort the market in this way. This would mean that there would suddenly be a big market for individual insurance rather than group plans, which would drive the cost down.
Hospitals and clinics should either be completely private or they should be completely public. They shouldn't be both.
You actually paid much more than $500 / year, it was just hidden. Employer paid healthcare is part of the cost of employement so you are being paid less to cover it. The only real advantage is group rates.I agree they need to be helped. I do not agree with taxing me to do it. The price of insurance and/or health care directly needs to be lowered to manageable levels so that an employer isn't required for someone to have health care.
When I worked for a large company I paid roughly $500 a year for my entire family to have great PPO insurance. I know pay more then that a month to have the same level of insurance working for myself.
What about private practices that use public facilities? I have a doctor who has a private practice but uses the public hospital if she needs to do an MRI or some other procedure she doesn't have the resources to do at her small office.
Doesn't the hospital charge for the MRI, etc?What about private practices that use public facilities? I have a doctor who has a private practice but uses the public hospital if she needs to do an MRI or some other procedure she doesn't have the resources to do at her small office.
No.This is a step TOWARD a free market system, as it is eliminating a government-created market distortion. Both employers and employees have an artificial incentive for the employer to provide health insurance rather than the employee buying individual coverage.
Which of course makes your original statement as significant as mine.Actually, I'll give you an easier question: Please name one serious economist.
Don't confuse opposition in regards to one issue as support for another.Employers would have no incentive to provide health care in the first place if not for the tax code. That is NOT a free market, and the fact that you support this (most likely without understanding what you're supporting) undercuts your claim to favor a free market.
Wow!Militaries and police have existed for millennia. The idea of what "taking care of the people" entails has simply evolved.
Not everyone has a job that provides health benefits.
People wouldn't need to "sponge off the system" as much if they had access to preventative care instead of emergency care only. The overall share of the GDP spent on health care would almost certainly decline if we had universal health care.
If these things are county-run, that's great and I'm all for them. But obviously there are going to be huge differences in quality, as not every county has the money to offer quality health services to its residents.
Meh, I'm hesitant to trust that to the counties. At the very least, it should be the state's responsibility. Otherwise we'd have an enormous system of patchwork laws and no coordination between locales (which, actually, is what we have now).
It doesn't matter what the topic is. It always comes back to The Brown Man, doesn't it. :roll:
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