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democracy

mikeey

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How can you create democracy by force? It's supposed to be about free choice, with equality of franchise. How could they vote freely with an army in their streets? Let's hear your voices.
My kind regards
Mikeey
 

ILikeDubyah

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mikeey said:
How can you create democracy by force? It's supposed to be about free choice, with equality of franchise. How could they vote freely with an army in their streets? Let's hear your voices.
My kind regards
Mikeey
They could vote freely with "an army in their streets", because the army in their streets was and is) the army that liberated them from a brutal dictatorship, and is protecting them from extremists. This army made it possible for them to have the chance to vote, and more importantly,the chance to have any opinion they wanted, about anything....
 

mikeey

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They aren't doing a very good job of protecting them against extremists are they? How many are dying every week? How many were told not to vote by religious leaders, and how many can freely express any opinion safely in the street. It seems that from things in the press that women may be losing the right to vote and many other rights if an extremist islamic regime gains power. Will the ordinary people in Iraq then be any better off than they were under the insane megalomaniac Saddam Hussein?
Mikeey
 

MiamiFlorida

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mikeey said:
How can you create democracy by force? It's supposed to be about free choice, with equality of franchise. How could they vote freely with an army in their streets? Let's hear your voices.
My kind regards
Mikeey
Democracy and equality are two separate concepts. You can have a Democracy without equality.

I think it's more difficult to vote freely with terrorists threatening, and murdering those who vote, don't you think?

Democracy has been created by force many times: Germany, Italy, Japan, Panama, Grenada, Israel, Afghanistan, Santo Domingo, India, etc....

And since democracies don't wage war on each other, isn't it logical to force democracy on rogue states, if need be, to end wars?
 

mikeey

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That's true many democracies have been created by force including the United States of America. But it's not true that democracies dont wage war against each other. The German people voted for Hitler, and France and Britain were at war during the time of Napoleon(both of these were democracies).

Mikeey
 

Stinger

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mikeey said:
How can you create democracy by force?
The American Revolution of 1776. But actually we create a Federal government as is being done in Iraq. It took us about 12 years, with a failure at first, how long has in been in Iraq how many failures have they had yet?
 

Stinger

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mikeey said:
They aren't doing a very good job of protecting them against extremists are they? How many are dying every week?
Realitve to out right civil war or the continue mass murdering of Saddam? What do you think? Realively speaking that is?

How many were told not to vote by religious leaders, and how many can freely express any opinion safely in the street.
Not many and most.

It seems that from things in the press that women may be losing the right to vote and many other rights if an extremist islamic regime gains power.
If the extremist see weakness they just might.

Will the ordinary people in Iraq then be any better off than they were under the insane megalomaniac Saddam Hussein?
How would they not be if freedom is preserved under the new consitution and rights are assured? Perhaps if more people and more countries got on board and supported our efforts instead of denigrating us at every chance no matter how baseless the charges the Iraqi's would be more willing to fight for thier rights would see that in fact the world is on thier side and the terrorist would see strength mounted against, world opinion mounted against them and the resolve of the American people mounted against them instead of weakness those without the will to see this to victory project.
 

MiamiFlorida

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mikeey said:
That's true many democracies have been created by force including the United States of America. But it's not true that democracies dont wage war against each other. The German people voted for Hitler, and France and Britain were at war during the time of Napoleon(both of these were democracies).

Mikeey
Hitler overthrew a democracy. The burning of the Reichstag was just the icing on the cake. Remember they coined the phrase "Ministers Without Portfolios". The Germany that went to war with other democracies was a totalitarian state.

I don't think you can call Napoleon democratic, can you?
 

mikeey

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A lot of the totalitarian states in the world today started off as democracies, Mugabe in Zimbabwe was originally elected and even at the last elections which many people thought were rigged were approved as fair by the UN delegates who inspected them. Who in their right mind would consider Zimbabwe as a modern democratic state wher 1000s of people are being forcibly evicted and there houses burned to the ground sometimes with children still inside.
Israel is supposed to be a democracy, and has signed many of the mandates produced by the united nations, yet they invade their neighbours territories at will, steal their land and keep it by force.
The united States is supposed to be a democracy and yet in breach of United nations mandates it declared war on Iraq and invaded it. It perpetuates conflict in various regions of the world by financing one country against another eg Israel and Palestine( Israel would not have survived without the backing of the USA). Americans say they went into Iraq because of what saddam was doing to the people and because he had weapons of mass destruction, I say to you that If Bush thought for one minute that saddam had WMD he wouldn't have gone in, he's not touching Korea is he. To trust the American administration is like dancing with the devil.

Mikeey
 

DivineComedy

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mikeey said:
The united States is supposed to be a democracy and yet in breach of United nations mandates it declared war on Iraq and invaded it.

“March 5, 2003: Bus bombing in Haifa. U.S. citizens killed: Abigail Leitel, 14, who was born in Lebanon, New Hampshire.” http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/usvictims.html

“The suicide bomber was 20 years old, a student of the Hebron Polytechnic University (from which a large number of suicide bombers have emerged) and a member of the Hamas terrorist organization.” http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/861590/posts

March 13, 2003: “(CBS) Saddam Hussein has distributed $260,000 to 26 families of Palestinians killed in 29 months of fighting with Israel, including a $10,000 check to the family of a Hamas suicide bomber.

In a packed banquet hall on Wednesday, the families came one-by-one to receive their $10,000 checks. A large banner said: ‘The Arab Baath Party Welcomes the Families of the Martyrs for the Distribution of Blessings of Saddam Hussein.’“ http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/14/world/main543981.shtml

“Recalling that in its resolution 687 (1991) the Council declared that a ceasefire would be based on acceptance by Iraq of the provisions of that resolution, including the obligations on Iraq contained therein,” http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/11/08/resolution.text/

“H
32. Requires Iraq to inform the Security Council that it will not commit or support any act of international terrorism or allow any organization directed towards commission of such acts to operate within its territory and to condemn unequivocally and renounce all acts, methods and practices of terrorism;
I
33. Declares that, upon official notification by Iraq to the Secretary-General and to the Security Council of its acceptance of the provisions above, a formal cease-fire is effective between Iraq and Kuwait and the Member States cooperating with Kuwait in accordance with resolution 678 (1990);” http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/sres/sres0687.htm

What part of that mandate did you not understand?

“SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
(a) AUTHORIZATION. The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to
(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq.”
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html
 
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