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Democracy is not mob rule

Yes there is.

The very reason this nation is call the United STATES of America, because this is a nation of currently 50 STATES, with various needs, resources, populations, etc.

I have lived in 15 different State in my lifetime, and visited in a dozen more.

While we share many commonalities like language, there are still differences of all kinds based on population dynamics in each State.

When this nation was formed, it was designed to unite 12 distinct States, which were literally semi-independent under the original Articles of Confederation.

A pure popular vore wold prompt a President to focus capaign narrowly in the States with the largest populations if all that was required is winning the popular vote.

That would turn the USA into a version of PanEm in the Hunger Games. The populated cities being the focus and everywhere else servants/serfs supplying those city's needs.
If rural people feel like they deserve more of a say, then they should band together and make their countryside something that more people want to live in.
 
I would live to see democrats take you up on your advice and do a fully virtual campaign from DC.
I doubt it would work. Campaigns are meant to be a resource of information about the politics. But in america campaigns are merely crowd gathering exercises so as a politician can boast about their support.
 
Yes there is.

The very reason this nation is call the United STATES of America, because this is a nation of currently 50 STATES, with various needs, resources, populations, etc.

I have lived in 15 different State in my lifetime, and visited in a dozen more.

While we share many commonalities like language, there are still differences of all kinds based on population dynamics in each State.

When this nation was formed, it was designed to unite 12 distinct States, which were literally semi-independent under the original Articles of Confederation.

A pure popular vore wold prompt a President to focus capaign narrowly in the States with the largest populations if all that was required is winning the popular vote.

That would turn the USA into a version of PanEm in the Hunger Games. The populated cities being the focus and everywhere else servants/serfs supplying those city's needs.
That is not why America is called the USA.

Your description, the United STATES of America was tried. The Articles of Confederatiojn was an abject failure. Under that system, it is generally understood that our country would not exist today.

We are the UNITED States of America.
 
Tell me why the vote of a single rural person is worth more than a single urban voter.

If they reside in the same state then their votes are equal. Why do you feel that this is a rural vs urban thing? Projection? What happened to make you dislike rural people?
 
True however that is all outside the model and it exists because lazy and apathetic voters don't try to elect representatives who will push back against it.
The casino was built with outside money and it is outside money that keeps it strong.
A sane and educated public would have long ago ruled that outside money isn't allowed.
Probably too late now, given Citizens United et al.
Greed and ego are human weaknesses that political animals also have. So, we'll never achieve the ideal society or gov. But the USA has been remarkably successful with our form of gov and market principles. Hopefully, the extremism in politics will level off.
 
I doubt it would work. Campaigns are meant to be a resource of information about the politics. But in america campaigns are merely crowd gathering exercises so as a politician can boast about their support.

That was my point
 
I see the constitution as modern republican democracy version 1.0. 1.0 versions of things tend to be buggy. There is a way to patch it and I am calling for a patch.

Such “patches“ require Constitutional amendment which requires a approval by supermajority of the states.

Societies have different groups of different sizes. It also means the Amish will continue to not get much of a say. I would rather have a power balance that makes rational sense then this weird mess we have due to legacy reasons.

We would not have a legacy (the USA) without agreement of the original states which varied in population.
 
Why have states at all then, or make every state have an equal population.
States are represented equally in the senate. I support that idea and I am pro-federalist.

The president is the only election decided by EC for good reason. It is a stupid backwards system which no state, local, or even other country election mirrors due to the obvious arbitrary and absurd nature of it.

It's a national election, it should be a national vote. Simple as.
 
Such “patches“ require Constitutional amendment which requires a approval by supermajority of the states.
Yup and states are going to hold onto their power. Its a fundamental design issue that may not be fixable. But who knows, maybe the interstate voter compact will work out.
We would not have a legacy (the USA) without agreement of the original states which varied in population.
Those were the realities at the time. In computer terms, its an unwillingness to update the a system API to something modern and efficient and being saddled by inefficient processes and overhead (windows basically) so that nothing gets done well on modern hardware.
 
If rural people feel like they deserve more of a say, then they should band together and make their countryside something that more people want to live in.
I actually disagree with this. There will always be less populous regions in any country for any number of reasons. That does not mean the people living there are any less important than any other region. When national policy is being decided on and funds are being parceled out they should not be forgotten or overlooked. That's why the senate exists.

But the idea that abolishing the electoral college will somehow make smaller states obsolete is absurd. It's a national election. Everyone should get one vote. States can air the grievances and be represented in the senate like they are supposed to be.
 
Why have states at all then, or make every state have an equal population.
We have states now because that's the way the nation evolved. Now it is so ingrained in our culture and politics that changing it is beyond what we can do as a country. But, we can have states and still give people equal voting power for presidential elections. Just abolish the outdated EC.
 
Excuse me, I put "mob rule" in quotes for a reason.
And the fact is, democracy as we know it today is indeed representative democracy, where the people ELECT representatives, in parliamentary bodies all over the free world.
Pure democracy is, in most cases, limited to public referendums, such as the Scottish independence movement.
And still, if Scotland finally does win independence, they will continue to democratically elect representatives to a parliamentary body, yes?

I never made any assertions as to who the ancient Greeks decided could be in their Senate.
I was referring to the difference between Athenian democracy and the way democracy operates today, and to the fact that lies are peddled by our Republican friends about how
America is not a democracy, which is a lie purposely manufactured for the express purpose of "inoculating against" any backlash toward the theocratic fascism that they are attempting to elevate ABOVE our representative democracy in order to shackle it to a position of permanent impotence and illusion.

I look forward to hearing your rebuttals on that score.
Pity then you did not a give a reason why you put mob rule in quotes then.

America is not a democracy You are a federation. America is nowhere near a democracy.
You made no sense rather than you made no assertion. "pure democracy " is that something only a true scotsman has? There is no such thing even today. democracies in countries today are run differently from each other in many ways. Nor does the athenian style democracy exist today. If it did it would be called a oligarchy.
 
If they reside in the same state then their votes are equal. Why do you feel that this is a rural vs urban thing? Projection? What happened to make you dislike rural people?
WY (rural) gets one EC vote per every @194,000 residents. CA gets one per every @ 716,000.

I dislike their status in perpetuating the systemic racism that defines American representation. Guess which one congressional district contains the majority of LA's black population?

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That's a complicated topic, so I'm not sure it's suitable for us to discuss. Just stick to what I said, 'individual rights'.

Ahhh...gotcha! The Bill of Rights are individual rights.
 
We have states now because that's the way the nation evolved. Now it is so ingrained in our culture and politics that changing it is beyond what we can do as a country.

So you don't want to change the states because that's how the US was created but then you apply the completely opposite logic to the EC
 
I actually disagree with this. There will always be less populous regions in any country for any number of reasons. That does not mean the people living there are any less important than any other region. When national policy is being decided on and funds are being parceled out they should not be forgotten or overlooked. That's why the senate exists.

But the idea that abolishing the electoral college will somehow make smaller states obsolete is absurd. It's a national election. Everyone should get one vote. States can air the grievances and be represented in the senate like they are supposed to be.
Wouldn't that make the dems concentrated populations in dense areas, like the West and East coasts, in control of natl elections?
 
What happened to make you dislike rural people?
Of course there are very good rural people. But, as a whole they are dumb or ignorant. Evidence that they voted for a jackass for president who had no government experience and has been a con-man his entire life. Further evidence, after the con-man lead an insurrection and tried to overthrow the will of the American voter, these same rural people still want him to be the next president.
 
WY (rural) gets one EC vote per every @194,000 residents. CA gets one per every @ 716,000.

Rural CA voters have the same vote power as urban CA voters.
 
Minorities isn't random arbitrary geographic groupings of people. If California split itself into 20 smaller but all still Democrat majority states the GOP would be screaming for the Electoral College to be immediately abolished and for good reason.

I offer these four words to summarize the absurdity of the electoral distortion: "One California, Two Dakotas".
 
Many media markets are local or regional.
It is still the wrong approach to a democracy. Top down democracy never works well it is still one person telling others what to think.

A democracy should be approached from bottom going up. By Having town meetings which discus the subject of the meeting and then give a vote on which way to go. That way the people tell the politicians not the politicians tell the people.
 
Pity then you did not a give a reason why you put mob rule in quotes then.

America is not a democracy You are a federation. America is nowhere near a democracy.
You made no sense rather than you made no assertion. "pure democracy " is that something only a true scotsman has? There is no such thing even today. democracies in countries today are run differently from each other in many ways. Nor does the athenian style democracy exist today. If it did it would be called a oligarchy.

That you've completely missed the point isn't surprising.
And if you wish to split hairs about whether representative democracy is or is not "democracy" that's on you.
I already said that Athenian democracy doesn't exist today. Republican party faithful are intent on spreading the lie that "ALL democracy is pure athenian style democracy."
They're fond of phrases like "two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for lunch" and they tie it in with other failed tropes like the notion that America is a christian nation and that the church should guide the country, not the rule of law.

But hey, I'll give all the room you need. America is not a democracy, go for it.
Meanwhile, I'll be preparing to VOTE in November, as it may very well the last time it will have any effect on who gets installed in our Congress.

After this November mid-term election, you may end up being 100 percent correct, but not for the reasons you've presented in this thread.
 
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