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definition of marriage

sawyerloggingon said:
If you can show me when and where "vote" was defined in any dictionary as a word that revolved around being white and male go right ahead, I could find no such definition.
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At 0600, before I leave for work I feel that would be quite the task. As I've said, the term vote was last redefined nearly 100 years ago. I'm sure that I could find an older dictionary, but not at this hour in the morning.
 
NoC_T said:
Marriage | Define Marriage at Dictionary.com

noun

1. a legally, religiously, or socially sanctioned union of persons who commit to one another, forming a familial and economic bond: Anthropologists say that some type of marriage has been found in every society, past and present.

2. a. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.

b. a similar institution involving partners of the same gender, as in gay marriage; same-sex marriage .

3. the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: They have a happy marriage. Synonyms: matrimony. Antonyms: single life, bachelorhood, spinsterhood, singleness.

4. the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of two people to live as a married couple, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage. Synonyms: nuptials, marriage ceremony, wedding. Antonyms: divorce, annulment.

5. a relationship in which two people have pledged themselves to each other in the manner of a husband and wife, without legal sanction: trial marriage.

It seems there's a good deal of ambiguity. Certainly enough latitude to permit interpretation, whatever the orientation.
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Those are new PC definitions since gay marriage was even talked about and prove my point that gay marriage is changing the very definition of the word.
 
Papa bull said:
Possibly, but an alternative to marriage should be written to provide the legal rights they need, not to mimic marriage. It's not marriage. I think it's the reasonable comprise.
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So you want them to have an institution with the same purpose as marriage, but with a different definition? It just seems a game of semantics more than anything.

Look, I can understand objections to gay marriage on the grounds of personal beliefs, but to object to it on the basis that one, and only one, word of the English language has a sacrosanct definition seems a bit silly.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Those are new PC definitions since gay marriage was even talked about and prove my point that gay marriage is changing the very definition of the word.
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That's the point, isn't it? Not the original definition. In which case it's moot.
 
spud_meister said:
So you want them to have an institution with the same purpose as marriage, but with a different definition? It just seems a game of semantics more than anything.

Look, I can understand objections to gay marriage on the grounds of personal beliefs, but to object to it on the basis that one, and only one, word of the English language has a sacrosanct definition seems a bit silly.
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So lets change the meaning of the word "rape", lets make it mean a woman has to be murdered after the intercourse takes place to be considered "rape". Words have meanings, changing that meaning is a big deal.
 
spud_meister said:
So you want them to have an institution with the same purpose as marriage, but with a different definition? It just seems a game of semantics more than anything.

Look, I can understand objections to gay marriage on the grounds of personal beliefs, but to object to it on the basis that one, and only one, word of the English language has a sacrosanct definition seems a bit silly.
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Not necessarily. I think the big complaints are that they might not be considered "kin" for hospital visits. Or that they don't have a means to bring their beloved mail order husband into the country from Indionesia through legal immigration as "family". I think these things are things we should be able to reasonably address.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
The original definition is the definition until or unless gay marriage is legalized. Then and only then does the definition change.
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It's about to legally change. You know these events cannot be stayed. Can't SSM take place in certain American states?
 
Starbuck said:
At 0600, before I leave for work I feel that would be quite the task. As I've said, the term vote was last redefined nearly 100 years ago. I'm sure that I could find an older dictionary, but not at this hour in the morning.
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Well when you get a chance find it for me, really I'd be interested to see it.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
The original definition is the definition until or unless gay marriage is legalized. Then and only then does the definition change.
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The legal definition, absolutely. Historically, it's a more recent development, but yes, legality is pertinent to the discussion.
 
Mr X said:
Marriage is a legal institution, so the definition of marriage is whatever the law says it is.

The dictionary entry you quoted is just defining the legal term.
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I agree. Marriage is a legal institution. It is created by the government and, therefore, must be defined by the government. It also means that there is no "right" to marry whatever you wish because no one has a RIGHT to be sanctioned by a legal institution. A right is always something that is sovereign and a freedom from which the government cannot interfere. It is NEVER something the government must bestow. The government cannot stop you from bearing arms, speaking freely, pursuing happiness, etc. Those are rights. You do not have a right to a driver's license or fishing license or liquor license or barber's license or medical license or marriage license or any other sort of license.
 
NoC_T said:
It's about to legally change. You know these events cannot be stayed. Can't SSM take place in certain American states?
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And that is my point, legalized gay marriage completely changes a word that has defined an institution in this country that is one of its bedrocks. A husband a wife and kids is the foundation America was built on.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
So lets change the meaning of the word "rape", lets make it mean a woman has to be murdered after the intercourse takes place to be considered "rape". Words have meanings, changing that meaning is a big deal.
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How about we change the meaning of rape back so it excludes a husband raping his wife? Or we could change the meaning of gay to mean happy, the you'd look really foolish opposing gay marriage.


Semantic drift happens, ****ing deal with it.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
And that is my point, legalized gay marriage completely changes a word that has defined an institution in this country that is one of its bedrocks. A husband a wife and kids is the foundation America was built on.
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But then it's another issue to argue that such redefinition is detrimental. Surely gay marriage won't usher in the US's untimely demise.
 
spud_meister said:
How about we change the meaning of rape back so it excludes a husband raping his wife? Or we could change the meaning of gay to mean happy, the you'd look really foolish opposing gay marriage.


Semantic drift happens, ****ing deal with it.
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"marriage" is a word that defines our very society and can't be compared to the word "gay".
 
Papa bull said:
Not necessarily. I think the big complaints are that they might not be considered "kin" for hospital visits. Or that they don't have a means to bring their beloved mail order husband into the country from Indionesia through legal immigration as "family". I think these things are things we should be able to reasonably address.
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See, I don't think word definitions are a big deal (I used to, but then I realised I'd never get "-phobia" to not mean hatred.:2mad:) It's the purpose of the institution of marriage that I believe is the important part, and marriage is for raising a family. Gays can raise a family, therefore they fulfill the purpose of marriage, rather than the dictionary definition.
 
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