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Defining God

kal-el said:
Per your link: Emotions are mental states that arise spontaneously,- I guess you can rule out omniscience then, cause if an emotion is spontaneous, it is not forseen.
It's important to consider all of those definitions, and to realize that emotion isn't something that can be nailed down so easily.

When I have to leave my 5 year old in the livingroom and go upstairs, I know that he is going to make a "B-line" for the fridge and/or cupboards. I know that when he does, I will be mad at him for doing so, I see that in advance, but I am not mad at him until he does so.
 
Jerry said:
It's important to consider all of those definitions, and to realize that emotion isn't something that can be nailed down so easily.

When I have to leave my 5 year old in the livingroom and go upstairs, I know that he is going to make a "B-line" for the fridge and/or cupboards. I know that when he does, I will be mad at him for doing so, I see that in advance, but I am not mad at him until he does so.

I see what you are saying, but you said I know that he is going to make a B-line for the fridge or cupboards. Why do you delight in comparing a so called perfect entity with fallible human behavior? Even if you were right, and he would know the action beforehand, and still show an emotion, that rules out omnipotence. You're saying he would be angry before Hitler exterminated jews, right? But all of this could have been avoided had he exersized his omnipotence.
 
kal-el said:
I see what you are saying, but you said I know that he is going to make a B-line for the fridge or cupboards. Why do you delight in comparing a so called perfect entity with fallible human behavior?
You are assuming that I "delight" in such a thing at all.

Even if you were right, and he would know the action beforehand, and still show an emotion, that rules out omnipotence.
I don't see how. Knowing that someone is going to do something yet not being mad at them until they have actually don something to be mad at is not contradictory.

You're saying he would be angry before Hitler exterminated Jews, right?
No.

But all of this could have been avoided had he exercised his omnipotence.
God could've created us preprogrammed to do or be what ever he wanted, yes. He did that with the angels and look what happened.

The Christian perspective is that God created Man with the ability to *choose* to love Him or not. God would rather be surrounded by those who love Him by way of their own *free will*, instead of loving Him because they have no choice.

Evil is the price that God had to pay in order to give Man free will, because Man must be capable of choosing evil....otherwise choice means nothing. This is where Jesus comes in. God loves Man so much that, despite Man choosing evil, God does not want Man to perish. So God sent in Jesus to take into Himself all punishment for all sin, ever. Jesus's sacrifice takes advantage of an unseen loophole in divine law: one does not necessarily have to receve the punishment for their sin.
 
Jerry said:
I don't see how. Knowing that someone is going to do something yet not being mad at them until they have actually don something to be mad at is not contradictory.

No, but the fact that if he knows somethings gonna go down, an doesn't stop it, he's either not omnipotent, or not omnibenevolent. If he can't, he's not all-powerful, and if he can, but he choses not to, he's not loving.


God could've created us preprogrammed to do or be what ever he wanted, yes. He did that with the angels and look what happened.

Maybe he should have. God forbid we don't do as he wills. Just look at all the punishments he inflicts in the OT. He throws titanic hissy-fits if we don't obey him.

The Christian perspective is that God created Man with the ability to *choose* to love Him or not. God would rather be surrounded by those who love Him by way of their own *free will*, instead of loving Him because they have no choice.

God created man? I thought in Genesis is says "In the beginning, man created God.":lol: And how can we have free will, when he already knows the moves we're gonna make, and in the bible it states that people can't do anything to change their destiny.

Evil is the price that God had to pay in order to give Man free will,

Why would god have to do anything he doesn't desire? Why are you placing restrictions on your diety? That's a bit like saying I must eat or drink in order to live.


because Man must be capable of choosing evil....otherwise choice means nothing.

Actually, in the bible, it says that Satan can do with us whatever he sees fit, whenever he sees fit, regardless of if it's "our choice."

God does not want Man to perish.

O man, talk abot the pot painting the kettle black. Killing seems to pretty much be the theme in the OT, and your diety is depicted as the clan wizard.:lol:


So God sent in Jesus to take into Himself all punishment for all sin, ever.

Wow, talk about naked assertions. You cannot prove this articulation.

Jesus's sacrifice takes advantage of an unseen loophole in divine law: one does not necessarily have to receve the punishment for their sin.

What sacrifice is that? Care to provide actual non-biblical documentation supporting that he even died on a cross?
 
kal: there is no other evidence...thats like asking someone "care to provide actualy non-plato works documentation supporting that Socrates even existed....its pointless. That is where faith comes in. Christians beilve that Christ was crucified, and questioning that wont do any good, becasue a Christian is not just going to dismiss one of teh most important aspects of their religion.
 
kal-el said:
No, but the fact that if he knows somethings gonna go down, an doesn't stop it, he's either not omnipotent, or not omnibenevolent. If he can't, he's not all-powerful, and if he can, but he choses not to, he's not loving.
You will have to set aside your rage and hate before we can continue.
My last post answered your questions.
You are assuming false premises.
You are projecting your own ideas of what God should or could do.
You are not accurately using your own words ("omnipotent" and "omnibenevolent", for example).
You are attempting to secure faith through scripture, which is folly, because you can only secure faith through God Himself. The bible (the Torah, specifically) is a study guide, a cheat sheet, a representation of the systom; nothing more.

Instead of liner script, may I suggest that you persue your understanding of scripture through a Humanities angle.
Perhaps you will find some enlightenment in the works of Stan Tenen.
 
Jerry said:
You will have to set aside your rage and hate before we can continue.

Pardon me, but I just get a little hot-heded when Christians claim they know the truth, when in all reality, they base their faith on a book, that could or couldn't be the actaul words of god. IMO it's not, as if it were the word of a perfect entity, we would be astounded at the wording and phrases after even reading a page of it, and it cannot be perfect, as there are so many contradictions. Why would a perfect entity knowingly make himself look like a moron, who has no idea what he is doing?


My last post answered your questions.

The only question I posted prior, is if god was angry before Hitler exterminated Jews.


You are assuming false premises.

Why are they false? Because you say so? I know it pains much of you to find out that your loving god could be a genocidal, mass murderer, lying, trivial, insecure, emotional diety who demands endless adulation and uses threats and violence to get his way.:lol:


You are projecting your own ideas of what God should or could do.

Not my own, read the OT, I'm not making it up here. As I said, everything that I have asserted, is supported by scripture.


You are not accurately using your own words ("omnipotent" and "omnibenevolent", for example).

Is that right? Please explain your usage of these terms, because they are self-contradictory. I guess you could say Iron Chariots are his kryptonite, because he cannot defeat them. I guess he has alot in common with Superman, as they are both characters in a book.


You are attempting to secure faith through scripture, which is folly, because you can only secure faith through God Himself. The bible (the Torah, specifically) is a study guide, a cheat sheet, a representation of the systom; nothing more.

Well, I hate to rain on your supernatural parade, but the bible is the basis of faith. Your last sentence is supposing that the bible is secondary, and Christians regularly communicate with god. I say you shouldn't base an entire religion on someone that you cannot prove he existed.
 
i believe in tranquility said:
kal: there is no other evidence...thats like asking someone "care to provide actualy non-plato works documentation supporting that Socrates even existed....its pointless. That is where faith comes in.

Ok, so there faith is not grounded in reality then. But if they are making the claim theat god exists, that's a direct assertion about reality, hence their claim falls into the burden of proof category, but if they say "I believe"- that's fine, they can, as their beliefs are not up for debate. I only have a problem with the people who claim god exists, but refuse to let me meet their sky bogie.

Christians beilve that Christ was crucified, and questioning that wont do any good, becasue a Christian is not just going to dismiss one of teh most important aspects of their religion.

That's odd, as the bible itself contradicts itself on who exactly carries Jesus's cross up to Potter's field. I have a problem when people claim they know "the truth", and in reality all they have to show is some mythological book with no supporting evidence at all.
 
kal-el said:
Pardon me, but I just get a little hot-heded when Christians claim they know the truth, when in all reality, they base their faith on a book, that could or couldn't be the actaul words of god. IMO it's not, as if it were the word of a perfect entity, we would be astounded at the wording and phrases after even reading a page of it, and it cannot be perfect, as there are so many contradictions. Why would a perfect entity knowingly make himself look like a moron, who has no idea what he is doing?

I am a Christian, and I do not base my faith on the bible. I knew God before I ever read a single page of the bible. I had a personal relationship with Jesus before I ever read the new testomit.

The bible can not be the basis of faith, because in order for any one to believe what is written in the bible, one must first *trust* (=faith) the source and authority of those words.

The bible is totally worthless, spiritually, to anyone who does not first have faith; or has made the personal decision, perhaps accompanied by a prayer for God's guidance, to become open to faith.

You are evidence that bible-thumpers do more harm than good.
I say you shouldn't base an entire religion on someone that you cannot prove he existed.
Aside from all of reality bearing witness to God, if you are waiting for science to quantify God, be patient.....Quantum Theory is getting there.
 
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Jerry said:
I am a Christian, and I do not base my faith on the bible.

Let me get this straight, you believe in an almighty god, but not the bible? Why does your belief stop when it comes to the bible? The bible is the standard of authority for the Christian faith. The bible is the source for all these opaque claims.

I knew God before I ever read a single page of the bible. I had a personal relationship with Jesus before I ever read the new testomit.

I'm not even going to say anything.

The bible can not be the basis of faith, because in order for any one to believe what is written in the bible, one must first *trust* (=faith) the source and authority of those words.

I would think faith is derived account of the bible. Because throughout the bible, faith is the human response to god's words and actions. He iniates the relationship between himself and humans. He expects people to trust in him, in fact, this lack of trust was the vey cause of the first sin (fall of man). IMO bible faith is kinda a personal knowledge of god.

The bible is totally worthless, spiritually, to anyone who does not first have faith; or has made the personal decision, perhaps accompanied by a prayer for God's guidance, to become open to faith.

Well the bible is the source of god, without the bible, the abstraction of god wouldn't exist.

You are evidence that bible-thumpers do more harm than good.

Excuse me if I like reading the bible. I didn't realize you must first have "faith" to read the bible.
 
kal-el said:
Excuse me if I like reading the bible. I didn't realize you must first have "faith" to read the bible.
kal... I think what Jerry is trying to convey here is that with faith and acceptance of Christ as your Savior the bible is suddenly seen in new light with complete understanding... This was certainly my experience. The Word becomes alive and wonderous. Illuminating the Love and mercies of God.
 
kal: do you beilve that the earth was formed NOT by a supreme being? If so, give me some evidence on how you have come to this conclusion...this could get interesting...
 
i believe in tranquility said:
kal: do you beilve that the earth was formed NOT by a supreme being? If so, give me some evidence on how you have come to this conclusion...this could get interesting...

I do not know. Atheists do not claim to have the thruth on anything, much less how the earth was formed. If I knew and could provide proof for the non-existence of god, there wouldn't be a need for faith.
 
I have yet to find any description of GOD that I can embrace. The old testament God is not likeable to put it nicely. I don't know how anyone can reach enlighenment from the bible. I'm not being disrespectful either....just honest. I read the bible and much of it doesn't make sense. Most of it has messages that must be interpreted and various people interpret it all in various ways.

The new testament is better. Jesus seems like a cool guy in the new testament. It's hard to grasp that he is the son of that mean god from the old testament. However even the new testament has it's faults. It was written so long after Jesus lived and the four gospels are so contradictory to one another that I don't know how you could make heads or tails of it. And the revelations and what not in the end.......well there's that mean god again.

Plus I could never understand why God would only allow people into heaven after they brutally killed his only begotten son. What's up with that? What if we didn't kill Jesus and we let him live? Then God would be pissed and we wouldn't get into heaven?

And whats up with original sin? How can be babies be born anything but innocent?

When I try to imagine a God....I don't want imagine an egotistical maniac whose even a jerk to babies, doesn't let them into heaven if they aren't baptised, and demands their foreskin! What's up with that?

Christianity could be a cool religion except that soooo many christians are judgemental. If you believe the new testament Jesus wasn't too down with judging others. My other problem with Christianity is that much of their religion has obvious "pagan" influence yet they adamently deny this. Why? Plus people who are really in to studying the Bible refuse to research and discuss the way the Bible stories share so much in common with the ancient stories of other cultures. There are egyptian gods whose stories are almost identical to the story of christ. There are sumerian texts that the Bible almost seems plagerized from. Yet Bible believers generally refuse to acknowledge anything outside the Bible as if God hand picked the stuff that made it in there.

I'd love nothing more than to have a definition of God that I could embrace. I'd love to be enlightened. But I don't think that will come from man, their religions, or writings. So many religions sound great up to a point.....but there is always something.....one little thing that makes me go "oh good heavens that can't be right!"
 
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can someone explain to me the concept of free will in christianity? i can just never understand it.

heres my take on it:

christians say god is omnipotent: he created us and gave us the gift of free will.

they also say that he could have easily created a world in which there is no evil, but then loving god would not have the same meaning....By choosing god, the love for god takes on more meaning.

but why does god care whether the love has more meaning. does God need even more love? A christian told me that GOd doesn't need anything. He gave us free will because God loved us. that way we can experience an even more rewarding love towards

now speaking in purely abstract terms, if god is all powerful, couldn't he create the universe in such away that there is no option for evil, and we don't realize it. That way we feel that our love for god is the most meaningful it can be. Just take out the choice to choose evil, take out death, and make it so we as beings always love him, then both parties are satisfied.

Of course christians say that that is not free will. But how is it not free will if in that abstract world, we think we have free will. We think we have the freedom to choose between all options in this new universe, but only the path to evil as we define it in our current reality is physically impossible based on the new physical laws of that abstract universe...just like it is physically impossible for me in this universe to jump out of a building and fly.

this is why i find christianity flawed... unless someone could explain free will in a better sense to me.
 
Yeah and for that matter how can it even be suggested that we have free will if God knows everything that is going to happen and certain things are destined?

Zacharia Sitchins actually comes closest to defining the "who" of god to me....but I don't want to end up in the conspiracy thread :lol: And those alien gods aren't likeable either though they do fill in many blanks on why god/s might be mean and egotistical.
 
talloulou said:
Yeah and for that matter how can it even be suggested that we have free will if God knows everything that is going to happen and certain things are destined?

Zacharia Sitchins actually comes closest to defining the "who" of god to me....but I don't want to end up in the conspiracy thread :lol: And those alien gods aren't likeable either though they do fill in many blanks on why god/s might be mean and egotistical.



i like the hindu/vedic concept of defining god.. Theres one passage where the vedas literally state the it is uncertain whether the lord himself knows what existence means. The define creation itself from an uncertain entity (Brahma), an entity or force that is beyond our idea of consiouscness.. very abstract.
 
nkgupta80 said:
can someone explain to me the concept of free will in christianity? i can just never understand it.

heres my take on it:

christians say god is omnipotent: he created us and gave us the gift of free will.

they also say that he could have easily created a world in which there is no evil, but then loving god would not have the same meaning....By choosing god, the love for god takes on more meaning.

but why does god care whether the love has more meaning. does God need even more love? A christian told me that GOd doesn't need anything. He gave us free will because God loved us. that way we can experience an even more rewarding love towards

now speaking in purely abstract terms, if god is all powerful, couldn't he create the universe in such away that there is no option for evil, and we don't realize it. That way we feel that our love for god is the most meaningful it can be. Just take out the choice to choose evil, take out death, and make it so we as beings always love him, then both parties are satisfied.

Of course christians say that that is not free will. But how is it not free will if in that abstract world, we think we have free will. We think we have the freedom to choose between all options in this new universe, but only the path to evil as we define it in our current reality is physically impossible based on the new physical laws of that abstract universe...just like it is physically impossible for me in this universe to jump out of a building and fly.

this is why i find christianity flawed... unless someone could explain free will in a better sense to me.

Omniscience and free will can't coexist. It's contradictory. I would venture to say if an omniscient entity knows that I am going to go to work in 1 hour, I will go to work. It feels to me as if I choose to go to work, but in all actuality, I am doing what the omniscient entity knows I will do.

Free will probably exists from our objectivity or human perspective,but I'd say if an omniscient god knows beforehand what we are going to do, free will is nothing but a farse.
 
kal-el said:
Let me get this straight, you believe in an almighty god, but not the bible? Why does your belief stop when it comes to the bible? The bible is the standard of authority for the Christian faith. The bible is the source for all these opaque claims.

Not being fluent in Hebrew and Greek, and thus not being capable of reading the original texts for myself, I have a shadow of a doubt regarding the the written word.

Being in possesion of a seed of God within me, just like nearly every other person, I am connected to God directly. This is from where my faith in God comes, and though I may not completely understand, I have no doubt.

I would think faith is derived account of the bible. Because throughout the bible, faith is the human response to god's words and actions. He iniates the relationship between himself and humans. He expects people to trust in him, in fact, this lack of trust was the vey cause of the first sin (fall of man). IMO bible faith is kinda a personal knowledge of god.

Tell that to native Americans who, though they have a pantheon of ancestor and nature spirits, have The Grate Spirit; a connection to which can be clarified through The Grate Silence.

Abraham had the benefit of angels visiting semi-regularly, and could hear God speak to him rottenly. Yet despite this, Abraham still insisted on seeing God Himself, personally and literally, with his own fleshy eyes.

Well the bible is the source of god, without the bible, the abstraction of god wouldn't exist.

I wonder how that abstraction existed to be written about then.

Excuse me if I like reading the bible. I didn't realize you must first have "faith" to read the bible.

I meant that they do damage by disgruntling good people like you, not that you were some how in error.
 
Apostle13 said:
kal... I think what Jerry is trying to convey here is that with faith and acceptance of Christ as your Savior the bible is suddenly seen in new light with complete understanding... This was certainly my experience. The Word becomes alive and wonderous. Illuminating the Love and mercies of God.
Exactly. Thank you.
 
defining god... thats very hard to answer. Everytime you try defining god, you get contradictions or unknowns. I would say that the least we can say is that god is some kind of super-force beyond human scope that resides over the universe. that is if one actually exists. I don't understand how people can ultimately think that there is a force that goes a long with our petty human emotions. TO me, god would be beyond bliss, saddness, love, all feelings. its like reaching a higher state of being. Hell, god is probably beyond consciousness or existence as we know it Thats why I don't see the idea of a merciful/loving god as something reasonable.
 
talloulou said:
The old testament God is not likeable to put it nicely. I don't know how anyone can reach enlightenment from the bible. I'm not being disrespectful either....just honest.
A sample:
*The bible shows me a piece of information which connects other pieces of information. This results in an "ah-haa" moment.
*The stories represent tried and true moral practices.

The new testament is better. Jesus seems like a cool guy in the new testament. It's hard to grasp that he is the son of that mean god from the old testament. However even the new testament has it's faults. It was written so long after Jesus lived and the four gospels are so contradictory to one another that I don't know how you could make heads or tails of it.

Writing styles can present apparent contradictories, yes. There are two ways to over come this is:The first is to learn the original languages and read the original documents for your self, spending a lifetime of study and contomplation on the subject; or second you could simply put all such things in a "God-box" and ask for guidance relevant to your life.

I tend to go for the second option. Personally, I don't feel the need to understand scripture completely in order to live a righteous life and be a good person.

And the revelations and what not in the end.......well there's that mean god again.

So mean is He that we are all with Him in the end.
We all have a way out of truble. All we need to do is live by God's law.

Plus I could never understand why God would only allow people into heaven after they brutally killed his only begotten son. What's up with that?

Basically, God stayed everyone's "death" sentence until Jesus came and served it for them.

What if we didn't kill Jesus and we let him live? Then God would be pissed and we wouldn't get into heaven?

The millennial kingdom would've begun at that point.

And whats up with original sin? How can be babies be born anything but innocent?

People are not born with criminal guilt of having committed a crime, but with a criminal nature and intent. It is not until a child reaches the age of accounting, traditionally marked with a bermitsfa, that they are held accountable for any sin that they commit.

Basically, if you don't know better, God gives you a pass.

When I try to imagine a God....I don't want imagine an egotistical maniac whose even a jerk to babies, doesn't let them into heaven if they aren't baptized, and demands their foreskin! What's up with that?

Institutionalized propaganda and spiritual blackmail committed by the church.

Christianity could be a cool religion except that soooo many christians are judgemental.
I here you.

If you believe the new testament Jesus wasn't too down with judging others. My other problem with Christianity is that much of their religion has obvious "pagan" influence yet they adamently deny this.

I've seen all sides of that. I've seen christians who deni it, christians who don't really care or don't mind ("were worshiping the God of Abraham, not a pagan god"), and christians who shun non purist symbology.

Denial. For some reason they psychologically need at least one thing to be substantial enough to believe in. Most diehard reborns I know have had some traumatic event in their life. They choose to be addicted to God rather than crack.

eople who are really in to studying the Bible refuse to research and discuss the way the Bible stories share so much in common with the ancient stories of other cultures.

Folks who do that, again, just need a crutch to keep them off of substance abuse or a psyc-brake, or similar.

re egyptian gods whose stories are almost identical to the story of christ. There are sumerian texts that the Bible almost seems plagerized from. Yet Bible believers generally refuse to acknowledge anything outside the Bible as if God hand picked the stuff that made it in there.

My contention is that all of these stories reflect onto the same God/event.
I accept the idea that mine is simply another way of looking at God.

e nothing more than to have a definition of God that I could embrace.

I see God as a blinding white light of truth, love and knowledge.

e to be enlightened. But I don't think that will come from man, their religions, or writings. So many religions sound great up to a point.....but there is always something.....one little thing that makes me go "oh good heavens that can't be right!"

You will find that that will allways be the case. No official religion will ever feel just right. Tools of faith are customizable, and by proxy so is your individual practice of your faith. So you have options.

Near death experiencers who say that have a story of meeting God, or similar, come back and have their own abstract view of God. Such people often find that they, also, don't fit well into any official religion.

Hope my views and opinions help. Feel free to accept or reject any of it as you see fit....as if one needed permision.
 
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Jerry said:
A sample:
*The bible shows me a piece of information which connects other pieces of information. This results in an "ah-haa" moment.
*The stories represent tried and true moral practices.



Writing styles can present apparent contradictories, yes. There are two ways to over come this is:The first is to learn the original languages and read the original documents for your self, spending a lifetime of study and contomplation on the subject; or second you could simply put all such things in a "God-box" and ask for guidance relevant to your life.

I tend to go for the second option. Personally, I don't feel the need to understand scripture completely in order to live a righteous life and be apegood person.



So mean is He that we are all with Him in the end.
We all have a way out of truble. All we need to do is live by God's law.



Basically, God stayed everyone's "death" sentence until Jesus came and served it for them.



The millennial kingdom would've begun at that point.



People are not born with criminal guilt of having committed a crime, but with a criminal nature and intent. It is not until a child reaches the age of accounting, traditionally marked with a bermitsfa, that they are held accountable for any sin that they commit.

Basically, if you don't know better, God gives you a pass.



Institutionalized propaganda and spiritual blackmail committed by the church.


I here you.



I've seen all sides of that. I've seen christians who deni it, christians who don't really care or don't mind ("were worshiping the God of Abraham, not a pagan god"), and christians who shun non purist symbology.


Denial. For some reason they psychologically need at least one thing to be substantial enough to believe in. Most diehard reborns I know have had some traumatic event in their life. They choose to be addicted to God rather than crack.



Folks who do that, again, just need a crutch to keep them off of substance abuse or a psyc-brake, or similar.



My contention is that all of these stories reflect onto the same God/event.
I accept the idea that mine is simply another way of looking at God.



I see God as a blinding white light of truth, love and knowledge.



You will find that that will allways be the case. No official religion will ever feel just right. Tools of faith are customizable, and by proxy so is your individual practice of your faith. So you have options.

Near death experiencers who say that have a story of meeting God, or similar, come back and have their own abstract view of God. Such people often find that they, also, don't fit well into any official religion.

Hope my views and opinions help. Feel free to accept or reject any of it as you see fit....as if one needed permision.

i like and agree with your view on religion. Personally, I think god is just an abstract representation of our own need for truth and purpose.
 
nkgupta80 said:
i like and agree with your view on religion. Personally, I think god is just an abstract representation of our own need for truth and purpose.
God as an idea? I could see various views of that consept.

One thing that appeals to me about the Jewish view of God, as I understand it, is that in the Torah God is not so much a personified Lord, but is more of a force. Like a self aware information/communication pattern.

Personally, I like the OT feel of God more than the NT Jesus apnosphere, because the OT view of God gets me motivated, it gives me focus. The OT God is more of what I would like as a father-figure.

Though I accept Jesus as my personal Lord and savior, placing faith in Jesus is disappointing in a way. Jesus is disarming. My acceptance of Jesus lends me toward pacifism, as that was certainly an underlaying theme in his teachings. I don't care for a pacifist father-figure, because as I said, I profer the motivation, the kick in the @$$ to get me moving......the fatherly influence that I wish I had while growing up.

I consider Jesus a personal friend, a brother, my high priest, but I place God as my father-figure.
 
Jerry said:
God as an idea? I could see various views of that consept.

One thing that appeals to me about the Jewish view of God, as I understand it, is that in the Torah God is not so much a personified Lord, but is more of a force. Like a self aware information/communication pattern.

Personally, I like the OT feel of God more than the NT Jesus apnosphere, because the OT view of God gets me motivated, it gives me focus. The OT God is more of what I would like as a father-figure.

Though I accept Jesus as my personal Lord and savior, placing faith in Jesus is disappointing in a way. Jesus is disarming. My acceptance of Jesus lends me toward pacifism, as that was certainly an underlaying theme in his teachings. I don't care for a pacifist father-figure, because as I said, I profer the motivation, the kick in the @$$ to get me moving......the fatherly influence that I wish I had while growing up.

I consider Jesus a personal friend, a brother, my high priest, but I place God as my father-figure.


Have you ever considered.....Motivating Yourself?
 
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