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Define Life

ksu_aviator said:
Clearly you are grasping at straws, desperately seeking an argument to justify your sick political position that it is just fine to kill children.

As of today, a child can survive birth as early as 22 weeks. By the standard you set in this post, I would expect that after 22 weeks you would agree that it is not ok to kill the child since it can live unattached to the woman.
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Abortions done at that stage are overwhelming due to a severe medical defect or because the woman's life is at risk. Women do not go skipping off to the abortion clinic at 22 weeks because they've changed their minds. And even if some do, isn't that a good thing? Would we really want someone like that to be a mother anyway?
 
Dittohead not! said:
Then it would seem that the religious viewpoint would be that the fetus becomes a human being at the point in which the soul enters the body.
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The Bible says life begins at the first breath, and that has been the way obs, midwives and doctors have always viewed it, and that's why the newly born has to be slapped on the butt to make it breathe and spit out the mucous in its throat.

ricksfolly
 
You're going to use Gen 2:7, god breathing life into Adam, to propose life begins post-womb. At 8 months, it is not alive because god breathed life into Adam.

Sure.

that has been the way obs, midwives and doctors have always viewed it
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Sure.
 
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ricksfolly said:
The Bible says life begins at the first breath, and that has been the way obs, midwives and doctors have always viewed it, and that's why the newly born has to be slapped on the butt to make it breathe and spit out the mucous in its throat.

ricksfolly
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Another religious viewpoint. Where did the life begins at conception idea come from? That doesn't sound like religion to me, more like biology.
 
avery45 said:
Ask any caring mother
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Keyword: caring.

By including this adjective in your response, you are admitting that your previous claim was a falsehood and, as such, it has no real merit in the discussion.


Because we are not omniscient
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Where did you get the silly idea that omniscience is required?
 
mac said:
oh...now I see. Get tired of your old name?
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Oh... now I see. Delusional and paranoid.

Some poster makes you look silly and you accuse him of being some other poster. Boy, that's original!

This is the only name I have ever used on this board.
 
Question...

Why isn't it entirely possible that god is divinely inspiring women to abort a zygote, embryo, or fetus? Since about 20% of fetuses are aborted spontaneously (naturally)...then is that the work of god or a woman's body rejecting a damaged ZEF?

I'm always amazed at non-supernatural entities here on the planet earth who seem to believe that they truly understand supernatural events, whether it be related to motive, cause or effect - or any actions in between. It must be truly a feeling of awe that those who have that have the ability to think in supernatural means and are able to share that with all of the common folks by acting as a messenger for a supernatural entity. AMAZING!

If god is the creator, the alpha and the omega (the beginning and the end) and knows every microcosmic to macrocosmic events before - during - and after all occurrence (as many claim) - then why do people who believe this ideology also believe that they get to be invited in on the choices and decisions made by god as those choices and decisions are executed?

So many people act like they are something like a sports broadcaster calling a NFL game, who are actually doing a "play by play" broadcast to their following beings the reasons, actions, choices, and decisions being made by god as it all unfolds. That is totally amazing.
 
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Tucker Case said:
Keyword: caring.

By including this adjective in your response, you are admitting that your previous claim was a falsehood and, as such, it has no real merit in the discussion.




Where did you get the silly idea that omniscience is required?
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Which previous claim. I've written alot. Since we don't know how a new life will turn out (not being omniscient nor predicting the future), we don't know how much harm/joy will come. The new life will get to a point it can make decisions to invite or avoid harm. But we must give it a chance to do so.
 
avery45 said:
Which previous claim. I've written alot.
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Click the little arrows in the quote boxes. It'll take you right back to it.


Since we don't know how a new life will turn out (not being omniscient nor predicting the future), we don't know how much harm/joy will come. The new life will get to a point it can make decisions to invite or avoid harm.
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It is impossible to avoid harm. At best, we can only lessen it.

But we must give it a chance to do so.
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That's a definitive statement, but it is unsupported. The obvious question is "Why must we give it a chance?"
 
Dittohead not! said:
Then it would seem that the religious viewpoint would be that the fetus becomes a human being at the point in which the soul enters the body.
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Well, assuming there is "the religious view point" is like assuming there is only one religion.

There are as many religious view points as there are religious views and opinions, which is one reason why it's a mistake to paint the issue as secular v. religious; several religious views support abortion.

One Christian might say abortion is wrong because it disrespects the Temple of the Holy Spirit, while another Christin might say it's ok because according to scripture the life is in the blood, so no blood = no life.
 
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digsbe said:
Life is biological. Criteria for life are metabolism, cell reproduction, containing DNA, and responding to changes in environment. A zygote/fetus is living and a human organism. It's ignorant to state otherwise.
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that is like saying an arm is a living human being.

geo.
 
Your arm would have the same DNA as the rest of the cells in you body. The fetus' cells would not be and exact match.
 
If the definition of life is a unique DNA, then the Neanderthal from whom we got the DNA to sequence that genome must have been alive.
 
Dittohead not! said:
If the definition of life is a unique DNA, then the Neanderthal from whom we got the DNA to sequence that genome must have been alive.
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The definition of life is not unique DNA, but a criteria of a new and distinct life. Kinda like being the product of reproduction is a factor.
 
mac said:
The definition of life is not unique DNA, but a criteria of a new and distinct life. Kinda like being the product of reproduction is a factor.
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So, having a new and distinct DNA does or does not mean that the organism is alive?

Every organism that results from sexual reproduction has a new and unique DNA, after all. Are they all alive?
 
Dittohead not! said:
So, having a new and distinct DNA does or does not mean that the organism is alive?
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Along with several other factors, it helps define a new life distinct from the parent.

Every organism that results from sexual reproduction has a new and unique DNA, after all. Are they all alive?
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Assuming they continue to grow and develop, yes.
 
mac said:
Along with several other factors, it helps define a new life distinct from the parent.
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Exactly. There are other factors that define a new life. A unique DNA is not enough in and of itself.
 
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