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Deconstructing Biden's claim that 'I reduced the federal deficit'

jonny5

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TLDR - Even CNN says its false

Any deficit reduction is due to simply not passing even more pandemic aid, though Biden/Dem Congress gave it their best shot. They actually INCREASED the deficit relative to pre pandemic levels by passing 2 major spending bills totaling 4 trillion in additional spending over normal budget levels.

Deficit
2019 - 1T
2020 - 3.1T
2021 - 2.8T
2021 estimate - 1.1T

And Biden's budget request is to increase the deficit to 1.7T by 2032. But expect to keep hearing this lie told over and over. And to keep adding trillions in debt. So long as no one is will to sacrifice any spending and most americans dont want to pay income taxes, nothing will change.

Defense spending is 700bn, more than the next 5 countries combined. And it can be cut too.
Republicans only care about deficits when democrats are in power.

There, no need to post if thats all you have.
 
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Spirit of The Millennium

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TLDR - Even CNN says its false

Not Too Long DID Read, it actually does not say that.

The deficit has been smaller under the Biden administration than it was at the end of President Donald Trump's tenure. But the deficit has been bigger under the Biden administration than the nonpartisan federal Congressional Budget Office had projected it would be if the Biden-era federal government stuck with the laws that were in effect when Trump left office in early 2021.

Any deficit reduction is due to simply not passing even more pandemic aid, though Biden/Dem Congress gave it their best shot. They actually INCREASED the deficit relative to pre pandemic levels by passing 2 major spending bills totaling 4 trillion

Over how much time though?

in additional spending over normal budget levels.

Deficit
2019 - 1T
2020 - 3.1T
2021 - 2.8T
2021 estimate - 1.1T

How about going back to the article and getting some reliable year-by-year estimates? Until then your thread is hackery, if not actually lying.

And Biden's budget request is to increase the deficit to 1.7T by 2032. But expect to keep hearing this lie told over and over. And to keep adding trillions in debt. So long as no one is will to sacrifice any spending and most americans dont want to pay income taxes, nothing will change.

Defense spending is 700bn, more than the next 5 countries combined. And it can be cut too.
Republicans only care about deficits when democrats are in power.

There, no need to post if thats all you have.

There's no need for this thread if that's all you have.

At least find a fact-checker that agrees with you!
 

bluesmoke

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Mis/disinfo provided to interrupt the rational mind and any sense of logic from a disingenuous OP.
 

jonny5

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Man, posting those rhetorical responses ahead of time really killed debate. So lets get into the current situation.

A perpetually rising debt-to-GDP ratio is unsustainable over the long term because financing deficits and servicing the debt would consume an ever-growing proportion of the nation’s income.

says CBO. And provides two options.

1. raise taxes - income tax pays for about half of what the govt spends outside SS, 10% of citizens pay about half of those taxes
2. cut benefits - 75% of spending goes to social programs

CBO also warns that the more we delay, the harder it is because interest payments. While still not a short term threat, the risk is only increaseing.


The likelihood of a fiscal crisis increases as federal debt continues to rise in relation to GDP, because mounting federal debt could erode investors’ confidence in the government’s fiscal position and result in a sharp reduction in their valuation of Treasury securities. In turn, investors would demand higher yields to purchase Treasury securities and thus drive up interest rates on federal debt. Additionally, concerns about the U.S. government’s fiscal position could lead to a sudden increase in inflation expectations, fear of a large decrease in the value of the U.S. dollar, or a loss of confidence in the federal government’s ability to repay its debt in full, all of which would make a fiscal crisis more likely. If a fiscal crisis occurred, it would result from multiple factors, and no clear basis exists for identifying the level of debt that might lead to such a crisis in the United States.

The end result is we need to at the very least, throw out democrats, have Biden and Republicans obstruct each other to force fiscal responsibility like in 2005 and 1996. And then what comes from that. If nothing, harder choices need to be made.
 

Exquisitor

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Do you wonder who to believe?

1) Don't believe anyone.

Who cares what it truth and what is propaganda?

The question is who is sane and who is insane?

We know Putin, Trump and Republican: insane.
 

mrjurrs

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TLDR - Even CNN says its false

Any deficit reduction is due to simply not passing even more pandemic aid, though Biden/Dem Congress gave it their best shot. They actually INCREASED the deficit relative to pre pandemic levels by passing 2 major spending bills totaling 4 trillion in additional spending over normal budget levels.

Deficit
2019 - 1T
2020 - 3.1T
2021 - 2.8T
2021 estimate - 1.1T

And Biden's budget request is to increase the deficit to 1.7T by 2032. But expect to keep hearing this lie told over and over. And to keep adding trillions in debt. So long as no one is will to sacrifice any spending and most americans dont want to pay income taxes, nothing will change.

Defense spending is 700bn, more than the next 5 countries combined. And it can be cut too.
Republicans only care about deficits when democrats are in power.

There, no need to post if thats all you have.
The debt and the deficit are two different things. The debt can increase while the deficit is falling.
 

mrjurrs

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Man, posting those rhetorical responses ahead of time really killed debate. So lets get into the current situation.



says CBO. And provides two options.

1. raise taxes - income tax pays for about half of what the govt spends outside SS, 10% of citizens pay about half of those taxes
2. cut benefits - 75% of spending goes to social programs

CBO also warns that the more we delay, the harder it is because interest payments. While still not a short term threat, the risk is only increaseing.




The end result is we need to at the very least, throw out democrats, have Biden and Republicans obstruct each other to force fiscal responsibility like in 2005 and 1996. And then what comes from that. If nothing, harder choices need to be made.
1652377207984.png

Your solution would increase the National Debt based on actual history. Before you point out the only D with significant expansion (but...Obama), may I remind you that he was dealing with a global economic recession in his first term.

In other words, your mindset on this issue is 100% incorrect.
 

bluesmoke

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Man, posting those rhetorical responses ahead of time really killed debate. So lets get into the current situation.



says CBO. And provides two options.

1. raise taxes - income tax pays for about half of what the govt spends outside SS, 10% of citizens pay about half of those taxes
2. cut benefits - 75% of spending goes to social programs

CBO also warns that the more we delay, the harder it is because interest payments. While still not a short term threat, the risk is only increaseing.




The end result is we need to at the very least, throw out democrats, have Biden and Republicans obstruct each other to force fiscal responsibility like in 2005 and 1996. And then what comes from that. If nothing, harder choices need to be made.

Given the condition explained and how the deficit was reduced is fact. That you cannot and did not refute. All you're doing is, at best, rationalizing.

GDP dropped in Trump's last yr, FY2020, from FY2019. It increased the last 3 qrtrs of 2021 under Biden due to the stimulus you are apparently complaining about. Under Biden, pandemic spending is under the amount budgeted by Congress. As a result, the fed deficit dropped under Biden, incl as a % of GDP:


You can't refute the fact that the deficit lowered under Biden
 

Ishm

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Voters on both sides are addicted to living beyond their means. End result is neither party has strong enough leadership to challenge the 'spend to get votes' norm. That's why an obstructive split executive/congress can deliver lower deficits. Not because it's good for the country, but because it's politically advantageous to try and prevent 'the other guys' from achieving anything that the voters might like.

This discussion is a classic example. The right are complaining about what are forecast to be relatively minor increases in the deficit over the next decade in the wake of a once in a 100yr economic hit from covid. I don't actually disagree with them, but where were they when Trump nearly doubled the deficit in 3 years pre covid after inheriting an economy already in a record long expansion. At the rate Trump was growing the deficit it would have massively exceeded the current Biden forecasts.

The real argument between the two parties today is about whose voters get the most out of a pool of wealth thats no longer big enough for everyone.
 

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TLDR - Even CNN says its false

Any deficit reduction is due to simply not passing even more pandemic aid, though Biden/Dem Congress gave it their best shot. They actually INCREASED the deficit relative to pre pandemic levels by passing 2 major spending bills totaling 4 trillion in additional spending over normal budget levels.

Deficit
2019 - 1T
2020 - 3.1T
2021 - 2.8T
2021 estimate - 1.1T

And Biden's budget request is to increase the deficit to 1.7T by 2032. But expect to keep hearing this lie told over and over. And to keep adding trillions in debt. So long as no one is will to sacrifice any spending and most americans dont want to pay income taxes, nothing will change.

Defense spending is 700bn, more than the next 5 countries combined. And it can be cut too.
Republicans only care about deficits when democrats are in power.

There, no need to post if thats all you have.
Sit down, your guy put us almost seven trillion in the hole.
 

jonny5

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Voters on both sides are addicted to living beyond their means. End result is neither party has strong enough leadership to challenge the 'spend to get votes' norm. That's why an obstructive split executive/congress can deliver lower deficits. Not because it's good for the country, but because it's politically advantageous to try and prevent 'the other guys' from achieving anything that the voters might like.

This discussion is a classic example. The right are complaining about what are forecast to be relatively minor increases in the deficit over the next decade in the wake of a once in a 100yr economic hit from covid. I don't actually disagree with them, but where were they when Trump nearly doubled the deficit in 3 years pre covid after inheriting an economy already in a record long expansion. At the rate Trump was growing the deficit it would have massively exceeded the current Biden forecasts.

The real argument between the two parties today is about whose voters get the most out of a pool of wealth thats no longer big enough for everyone.

I dont know where the right was, but I was here complaining about deficits and debt. 80% increase is not a minor increase in the deficit, especially when the base is over a trillion to start. That equals yet another 10 trillion in debt. Thats an additional 14 trillion in debt accoriding to Biden himself.

Trump isnt President so he is no longer relevant. Democrats control the budget. What are they doing about it? So far, theyve passed about 4 trillion in new spending.
 

rahl

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I dont know where the right was, but I was here complaining about deficits and debt. 80% increase is not a minor increase in the deficit, especially when the base is over a trillion to start. That equals yet another 10 trillion in debt. Thats an additional 14 trillion in debt accoriding to Biden himself.

Trump isnt President so he is no longer relevant. Democrats control the budget. What are they doing about it? So far, theyve passed about 4 trillion in new spending.
They have lowered the deficit significantly.
 

bluesmoke

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Voters on both sides are addicted to living beyond their means. End result is neither party has strong enough leadership to challenge the 'spend to get votes' norm. That's why an obstructive split executive/congress can deliver lower deficits. Not because it's good for the country, but because it's politically advantageous to try and prevent 'the other guys' from achieving anything that the voters might like.

This discussion is a classic example. The right are complaining about what are forecast to be relatively minor increases in the deficit over the next decade in the wake of a once in a 100yr economic hit from covid. I don't actually disagree with them, but where were they when Trump nearly doubled the deficit in 3 years pre covid after inheriting an economy already in a record long expansion. At the rate Trump was growing the deficit it would have massively exceeded the current Biden forecasts.

The real argument between the two parties today is about whose voters get the most out of a pool of wealth thats no longer big enough for everyone.

The great majority of Rep/con voters get no more than do Dem voters from Rep/con politicians. Rep/con leaders only want to pass wealth to the rich and large corps. Dems to the middle class and those with the least. Guess who's winning.
 

Ishm

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The great majority of Rep/con voters get no more than do Dem voters from Rep/con politicians. Rep/con leaders only want to pass wealth to the rich and large corps. Dems to the middle class and those with the least. Guess who's winning.
I think that is why you see the GOP so publicly focussed issues like immigration, guns, abortion etc, and so reluctant to present any detailed economic policy. If half their voters had a true understanding of GOP economic policy impacts the GOP would never hold power again.
 

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There, no need to post if thats all you have.
First off when you post to a political forum your political opinion and then state the above to tell people who disagree with you not to respond why come on this forum? Are you that insecure you can't handle people who disagree with you.

Next like some I did read the article you quoted and you need to read it again because you have taken it out of its actual context and misrepresented what it said.

Biden has not stated he has reduced any deficit. You and Trumpets on the other hand engage in that kind of simplistic misrepresentation to suggest a President creates inflation and reduces deficit because YOU project a simplistic misunderstanding as to how economy works and what transpires in a complex set of cause and effect relationships to trigger inflation, deficits, etc.

The moment Trump ordered a very large increase in government expenditures to kick start the economy in response to Covid 19 it triggered both inflation and of course deficits. That is what directly happens as a result of government expenditures. The cause and effect has been documented by neutral economic sources with no political idelogy in the matter like you.

Biden did not trigger inflation and reduction of deficits is a ridiculous thing to discuss when the money borrowed has triggered interest payments adding to the deficit.

Next can you get real as to the US deficit and what adds or subtracts from it.

The Congressional Budget Office is apolitical. It provides the analysis of any udget and its economic effects and projected deficits and guesses how budget deficits drive federal debt. No matter who is in office they follow their warnings.

Are you also not aware the budget deficits from government expendures went to unprecedented levels in 2020. Why do you Trumpets ignore that?

Your government has the Federal Reserve, the Government Accountability Office,the aforementioned Congressional Budget Office and the Office of Management and Budget not to mention the Treasury Depart all compiling statistics and date on inflation, deficits, budgetary spending and each state has at least one department trying to do the same, At the federal government level aging population, rising interest payments, and spending for healthcare programs are major factors that impact on future economic growth and no Biden or Trump can not pass magic policies that in a 4 year period poof fix things. The economy is in constant transition effected by both long and short term trends and simplistic arguments that assume you can isolate a time period to look at economic performance is dumb. Its just stupid.

No you can't freeze frame or select an arbitrary time period and then infer from it anything. Its not how risk forecasting works.
 

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View attachment 67390364

Your solution would increase the National Debt based on actual history. Before you point out the only D with significant expansion (but...Obama), may I remind you that he was dealing with a global economic recession in his first term.

In other words, your mindset on this issue is 100% incorrect.

Would you please remind us when the recession officially ended, thanks.
 

Isidore

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Trump isnt President so he is no longer relevant.
No one ever talks about how Trump reduced the debt at the beginning of his term. Clear media bias.


That guy is a ****ing economic genius. No longer relevant? We need more policies like his to reduce the debt.
 

Mika-El

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For Trumpets who want to deconstruct Biden's deficit or blame him for inflation all you do when you engage in such arguments is how your lack of understanding of how economy works so is it any wonder you think someone like Trump is an expert on the economy? Please look at the facts which are all public domain:


1- when Trump implemented the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act into law on December 2017, the Congressional Budget Office a n eutral non partisan agency BO forecasted that this would increase the sum of budget deficits (debt) by $2.289 trillion between 2018-2027 decade nin addition to the $10.1 trillion increase forecast by the CBO in June 2017; source: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52370

2-in 2018, the federal government spent $4.11 trillion, up $127 billion or 3.2% from 2017 spending of $3.99 trillion;

3-in 2019, the federal government spent $4.45 trillion,an increase of $338 billion or 7.1% as compared to 2018 and $4.11 trillion in spending;

( note in regards to both 2 and 3 spending increased increased for all major categories and in particular higher spending for Social Security, net interest on the debt, and defense)

4-in fact the budget deficit increased from:
a-budget deficit increased from $666 billion in 2017 to $779 billion in 2018, an increase of $113 billion or 17.0%;
b- $779 billion in 2018 to $984 billion in 2019, up $205 billion or 26%.

5-the 2019 deficit was an estimated 4.7% GDP, up from 3.9% GDP in 2018 and 3.5% GDP in 2017.

6-during January 2017, just prior to President Trump's inauguration, CBO forecast that the 2019 budget deficit would be $610 billion if laws in place at that time remained in place and the then $984 billion actual result represents a $374 billion or 61% increase versus that forecast, driven mainly by tax cuts and additional spending;

7-the 2018 budget deficit of $779 billion was a $292 billion or 60% increase versus that forecast.


All of the above is proven fact and on public domain and can be found at:


When it comes specifically to the current deficit and inflation, Covid 19 triggered the supply chain collapse and first round of inflation as demand remained but supply levels shrunk. Then government expenditures implemented to kick start the economy directly triggered a second type and round of inflation and of course deficits and now sanctions have led to OPEC nations taking advantage of a shortage of gas and oil to try make up for profits lost during Covid 19, by now refusing to increase supply levels or even maintain them at agreed levels to avoid inflation as to its value.

Oil suppliers in particular sense all governments are now committed to transition away from fossel fuels and are trying to make as much profit as they can during the next 30 years now as the transition begins to electricity, solar, nitrogeon, replacements. Nitrogen technology is already sitting and waiting.

The US and world will undergo major changes to gas and oil prices but the US can offset some of it with solar, nitrogen, natural gas (which is clean), hydro electricity and smaller nuclear energy plants as well as thermal energy harnessed from garbage a Swedish method that inner cities in the US will turn to.

Trump will be dead within 1-4 years. The change over is only beginning and we are due for some more major floods, draughts and pandemics that will exasperate and accelerate changes.
 

Mika-El

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xploded the country's deficit above $3 trillion, a new record by a wide margin.

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
No one ever talks about how Trump reduced the debt at the beginning of his term. Clear media bias.


That guy is a ****ing economic genius. No longer relevant? We need more policies like his to reduce the debt.
Trump never reduced any deficit while in office. That is an absolute falsehood. The statistics and actual deficit amounts can be found by anyone.

The man never balanced a budget in his private business or government. That is public fact.


1652632862349.png

Here is his genius legacy: Trump inherited record unemployment from Obama and then implemented a US tax cut package in late 2017, which trimmed the tax rate on corporate profits to 21 percent from 35 percent, and lowered taxes for the wealthiest individuals. That cut directly caused the deficit, to increase to more than $1 trillion in 2019. Then he sat on his fat ass denying Covid 19 was an issue disrupting supply chain lines until the break downexploded the country's deficit above $3 trillion, causing him to panic and this is when we saw Republicans and Democrats come together to enact a $2.2 trillion economic support package because sitting and doing nothing as the deficit soared forced their hand and these expenditures added to the deficit and inflation. All proven public domain facts and no a genius does not sit on an economic crisis as he did and pretend it wasn't happening.

Trying to suggest Trump was a genius is absurd. Have you not learned what happens when you worship people with stupid haircuts?

Enjoy denying his legacy:




 
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The fact you call this economic illiterate a genius does not surprise me.
Sarcasm detector in the repair shop?

Trump trying to take credit for a momentary dip in the national debt when he first took office is a perfect illustration of exactly how clueless he actually is on economic matters. It also highlights that politicians will often try to take credit for circumstances that occur when they happen to be in office - which seems somewhat related to the opening post.

Thanks for your reply!
 

Mika-El

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Sarcasm detector in the repair shop?

Trump trying to take credit for a momentary dip in the national debt when he first took office is a perfect illustration of exactly how clueless he actually is on economic matters. It also highlights that politicians will often try to take credit for circumstances that occur when they happen to be in office - which seems somewhat related to the opening post.

Thanks for your reply!
Oh shit. SORRY ISIDORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am pulling my head out my rear.
 

Isidore

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Oh shit. SORRY ISIDORE!
No need to apologize. I'm new, so people don't know me. Plus I'm still getting used to how some things work around here. I also tend to have a dry sense of humor which doesn't always translate to the written word.

Although I am curious, did you believe someone that genuinely thought Trump reduced the national debt and therefore the country needed more of those policies was a person you could convince with facts?

I do appreciate your effort to introduce actual data into the discussion - far too many conversations on the internet about economic issues are missing that.
 

Jack Fabulous

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TLDR - Even CNN says its false

Any deficit reduction is due to simply not passing even more pandemic aid, though Biden/Dem Congress gave it their best shot. They actually INCREASED the deficit relative to pre pandemic levels by passing 2 major spending bills totaling 4 trillion in additional spending over normal budget levels.

Deficit
2019 - 1T
2020 - 3.1T
2021 - 2.8T
2021 estimate - 1.1T

And Biden's budget request is to increase the deficit to 1.7T by 2032. But expect to keep hearing this lie told over and over. And to keep adding trillions in debt. So long as no one is will to sacrifice any spending and most americans dont want to pay income taxes, nothing will change.

Defense spending is 700bn, more than the next 5 countries combined. And it can be cut too.
Republicans only care about deficits when democrats are in power.

There, no need to post if thats all you have.
Only in America could spending 150% of federal revenue verses spending 200% of federal revenue be viewed as an accomplishment.
 
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