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Decision Not to Rebuild Church Destroyed on 9/11 Surprises Greek Orthodox Leaders

Renae

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Greek Orthodox leaders trying to rebuild the only church destroyed in the Sept. 11 terror attacks expressed shock this week after learning, via Fox News, that government officials had killed a deal to relocate the church.

The St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, once a tiny, four-story building in the shadows of lower Manhattan, was destroyed in 2001 by one of the falling World Trade Center towers. Nobody from the church was hurt in the attack, but the congregation has, for the past eight years, been trying to rebuild its house of worship.

Though talks between the church and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey stalled last year, church leaders say they've been trying to kick-start discussions ever since. But amid debate over whether a proposed Islamic community center should go forward near Ground Zero, government officials threw cold water on the prospect of any deal with the church -- telling Fox News the deal is off the table.

FOXNews.com - Decision Not to Rebuild Church Destroyed on 9/11 Surprises Greek Orthodox Leaders

Mosque? Rock on.

Destroyed Church? No way man.
 

danarhea

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From your own article:

The archdiocese and Port Authority now offer sharply conflicting accounts of where things went wrong. The Port Authority has previously claimed the church was making additional demands -- like wanting the $20 million up front and wanting to review plans for the surrounding area. They say the church can still proceed on its own if it wishes.

"The church continues to have the right to rebuild at their original site, and we will pay fair market value for the underground space beneath that building," a spokesperson with the Port Authority told Fox News

The issue here is over money.

1) On one hand, the mosque is using its own funds to pay for construction. The government says it can build there if it wants to.

2) On the other hand, talks between the Orthodox church and the government broke down over terms and conditions. The government says it can build there if it wants to, and the government says it will even give them taxpayer money, which the mosque won't be getting.

Faux outrage anyone? FOX News has called this one right. Too bad you didn't read your own link, or you would have known the facts.
 
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stealthy

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From your own article:



The issue here is over money.

1) On one hand, the mosque is using its own funds to pay for construction. The government says it can build there if it wants to.

2) On the other hand, talks between the Orthodox church and the government broke down over conditions. The government says it can build there if it wants to, and the government says it will even give them taxpayer money, which the mosque won't be getting.

Faux outrage anyone? FOX News has called this one right. Too bad you didn't read your own link, or you would have known the facts.

I believe I read somewhere that the fund rasing tour for the Mosque is being paid for by our State Dept.
 

danarhea

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stealthy

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Not true at all. There is a tour that Rauf is on, but it is to promote religious tolerance:

"Expect"? That is a weasel word.

Do you happen to know if other religions are represented on this tolerance tour?
 

Erod

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Let's go build a shrine to nuclear technology in Hiroshima. I mean, it's about nuclear energy, not nuclear bombs, so c'mon.

Then, we can build a barber shop and a weight-loss clinic across the street from Auschwitz.
 

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Not true at all. There is a tour that Rauf is on, but it is to promote religious tolerance:

Hmmmmmmmm.......

Crowley said no fund-raising for the mosque and cultural center during the trip would be permitted. "That would not be something he could do as part of our program," he said.

Abdul Rauf said funds for the center will come from Muslims and members of his congregation.

But a London-based Arabic-language newspaper that interviewed Abdul Rauf reported that he says he also will collect money from Muslim and Arab nations around the world -- raising the possibility his goodwill mission could help him build contacts in oil-rich states.

"Does the State Department have any idea they are sending a guy to the Middle East who is going to be fund-raising perhaps among the very same people he will be meeting with?" asked Debra Burlingame, a 9/11 family member.

Read more: Imam behind support for Ground Zero mosque, Feisal Abdul Rauf may do fundraising on Federally funded trip - NYPOST.com
 

Renae

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From your own article:



The issue here is over money.

1) On one hand, the mosque is using its own funds to pay for construction. The government says it can build there if it wants to.

2) On the other hand, talks between the Orthodox church and the government broke down over terms and conditions. The government says it can build there if it wants to, and the government says it will even give them taxpayer money, which the mosque won't be getting.

Faux outrage anyone? FOX News has called this one right. Too bad you didn't read your own link, or you would have known the facts.

Dan to the RESCUE! Liberals rejoice!

Talks broke down, there is no media coverage (till now of the issue).
 

Crunch

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Dan to the RESCUE! Liberals rejoice!

Talks broke down, there is no media coverage (till now of the issue).

From what I've read the major problem with the Orthodox Church was the plan called for a dome that was taller than the WTC Memorial, which is only about 2 stories tall.

My understanding is that the proposed Mosque will be 13 stories tall.

Am I wrong?
 

danarhea

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Dan to the RESCUE! Liberals rejoice!

Talks broke down, there is no media coverage (till now of the issue).

What just happened here, folks?

1) Mr. Vicchio starts a thread implying that the mosque is being allowed to be built, but a greek orthodox church is not, showing bias towards islam.

2) Mr. Vicchio uses a link from FOX News to prove his point.

3) The FOX News link that Mr. Vicchio uses shows him to be wrong, which means that he did not even read his own link before posting it.

4) DanaRhea points this out to him.

5) Mr. Vicchio now has a lot of egg on his face.

6) So Mr. Vicchio attempts to hijack his own thread. It is no longer about the ground zero mosque, but how DanaRhea is a fake Conservative and the Liberals' best friend.

7) Mr. V has now doubled the amount of egg on his face. Are you still able to breathe through all that egg, Mr. V?

:rofl
 

Objective Voice

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First off, FoxNews wrongly inserted the government in their article. It's not the fed that's causing the problem. It's the NY Port Authority.

Second, it's a local issue same as the mosque in the sense that both have to paid for building permits and abide by local zoning ordinances. I understand people's rationale for insisting that the President remain mute on the mosque issue, but no one - not even the Port Authority - is denying the Greek Orthodox church from being built. The Port Authority and the church are just at odds with aspects of the funding to rebuilding it.
 

Erod

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Not true at all. There is a tour that Rauf is on, but it is to promote religious tolerance:

LOLOLOLOL

Ah yes, the great protectors of religious tolerance....the American liberals.

I love it when they defend manger scenes during Christmas, and when kids pray before a football game. They're just so dadgum tolerant, I can't keep from misting up.
 

danarhea

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Let's go build a shrine to nuclear technology in Hiroshima. I mean, it's about nuclear energy, not nuclear bombs, so c'mon.

Then, we can build a barber shop and a weight-loss clinic across the street from Auschwitz.

Since Hitler professed to be a Christian, then we can't have churches at all in Auschwitz, since Hitler represents all Christians. Do you see how silly this argument is?
 

donsutherland1

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The Church can rebuild on the parcel of land it currently owns. A breakdown in terms of a deal on relocation is not the same thing as the Church's being barred from rebuilding.

Had the Church followed through under the terms of its agreement, this would be a non-issue. Instead, a new round of negotiations ensued and those broke down. The New York Times reported:

Last July, the Port Authority and the Greek Orthodox Church announced a tentative plan to rebuild the church just east of its original site, at Liberty and Greenwich Streets. The authority agreed to provide the church with land for a 24,000-square-foot house of worship, far larger than the original, and $20 million. Since the church would be built in a park over the bomb-screening center, the authority also agreed to pay up to $40 million for a blast-proof platform and foundation.

In recent negotiations, the authority cut the size of the church slightly and told church officials that its dome could not rise higher than the trade center memorial. The church, in turn, wanted the right to review plans for both the garage with the bomb-screening center and the park, something the authority was unwilling to provide. More important, authority officials said, the church wanted the $20 million up front, rather than in stages. Officials said they feared that the church, which has raised about $2 million for its new building, would come back to the authority for more.


In any negotiation, there is a risk of failure. When talks were reopened after the initial agreement, there was a risk that things could fall apart. They did. Indeed, with tax revenue having fallen sharply in the wake of the financial crisis, the favorable financial terms that were once available to St. Nicholas' Church might no longer be desirable from the Port Authority's perspective. Hence, the original terms might no longer be feasible.

Nevertheless, that's entirely a separate matter. The reality is that the Church can rebuild on its own plot of land.
 

Erod

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Since Hitler professed to be a Christian, then we can't have churches at all in Auschwitz, since Hitler represents all Christians. Do you see how silly this argument is?

No, I see how silly it is to reduce the entirety of World War II into one man.

Those events happened, and they are incredibly hurtful to the survivors and descendants of those atrocities.

Same here. It is incredibly bad taste to build this on the site of this horrible atrocity.
 

texmaster

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Not true at all. There is a tour that Rauf is on, but it is to promote religious tolerance:

And you are really niave enough to believe he isn't raising money on the same trip?
 

texmaster

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What just happened here, folks?

1) Mr. Vicchio starts a thread implying that the mosque is being allowed to be built, but a greek orthodox church is not, showing bias towards islam.

2) Mr. Vicchio uses a link from FOX News to prove his point.

3) The FOX News link that Mr. Vicchio uses shows him to be wrong, which means that he did not even read his own link before posting it.

4) DanaRhea points this out to him.

5) Mr. Vicchio now has a lot of egg on his face.

6) So Mr. Vicchio attempts to hijack his own thread. It is no longer about the ground zero mosque, but how DanaRhea is a fake Conservative and the Liberals' best friend.

7) Mr. V has now doubled the amount of egg on his face. Are you still able to breathe through all that egg, Mr. V?

:rofl

Stick to the subject Dan.
 

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No, I see how silly it is to reduce the entirety of World War II into one man.

Those events happened, and they are incredibly hurtful to the survivors and descendants of those atrocities.

Same here. It is incredibly bad taste to build this on the site of this horrible atrocity.


And you are really niave enough to believe he isn't raising money on the same trip?

Both of you have the most intellectually vapid arguments.
The issue has been dealt with multiple times and shown that this is no big deal but you continue to push it because of your bigotry towards Muslims.

Get off it, the mosque is getting built and trashing the character of the individuals involved, won't change a thing.
 

texmaster

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Since Hitler professed to be a Christian, then we can't have churches at all in Auschwitz, since Hitler represents all Christians. Do you see how silly this argument is?

If you had done even the slighest bit of research you would have seen the Pope in the 90s chose to remove plans for a convent near an enternment camp out of respect when Jews protested the placement so close to a massacre.

Way to go.
 

danarhea

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No, I see how silly it is to reduce the entirety of World War II into one man.

Those events happened, and they are incredibly hurtful to the survivors and descendants of those atrocities.

Same here. It is incredibly bad taste to build this on the site of this horrible atrocity.

But you don't see how silly it is to expand the entirety of 911 to a whole group of people, and a whole religion.

You can't have it both ways.
 

texmaster

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Both of you have the most intellectually vapid arguments.
The issue has been dealt with multiple times and shown that this is no big deal but you continue to push it because of your bigotry towards Muslims.

Do not call me a bigot. It has nothing to do with the point I am making. This is a specific point about this specific man.

Get off it, the mosque is getting built and trashing the character of the individuals involved, won't change a thing.

Want to bet some cash on it? I'll bet you 20 bucks paypal it doesn't get built at that site.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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Do not call me a bigot. It has nothing to do with the point I am making. This is a specific point about this specific man.

I don't believe it for a second.
Your constant haranguing over this shows that you're most likely a religious bigot.
It's boring and tired.

Want to bet some cash on it? I'll bet you 20 bucks paypal it doesn't get built at that site.

It's getting built, your bigotry can't stop it.
No bets but I may decide to donate $20 to the mosque, to help it get done faster.
 

Erod

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Both of you have the most intellectually vapid arguments.
The issue has been dealt with multiple times and shown that this is no big deal but you continue to push it because of your bigotry towards Muslims.

Get off it, the mosque is getting built and trashing the character of the individuals involved, won't change a thing.

Ah yes, the warm, peace-loving Muslims, who've been so supportive through it all.

No, I won't be confined to the politically correct entrapments have "having" to pretend Islam is a religion of peace. They've been up to this nonsense since this voodoo was invented, and they've been marking their triumphs with mosques through it all.

Is that intellectually vapid enough for you? I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you with your head in the sand.
 
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