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Debunking the 7 Myths Regarding the Bible

Actually we believe morals come from God, as defined in his word.

What's ridiculous is perhaps a billion secularists running around, each with their own set of morals (or immorality).


"If the moral law is merely subjective, then no one can declare the actions of another to be wrong. If the moral law is produced by nations, then no nation can condemn the actions of another nation. The moral law could not even be the product of world consensus. The world consensus of the twentieth century could not condemn the slavery of the nineteenth, first, or any other century since world consensus favored the practice of slavery during those times."

"The moral judgments of men do not make sense unless the moral law stands above all individuals, all nations, and any supposed consensus of the world. The moral law is universal; it applies to all mankind. The moral law is also eternal; it does not change with time. Therefore, there must exist an eternal moral Lawgiver who stands above all men. Prescriptive laws only come from lawgivers." - Truthbomb Apologetics
And his word supposedly, comes from a book.

No different from the many theists who interpret that book so differently from each other.

I agree with that. Morality is a shifting quality that will depend on the society at the time. Where once slavery was deemed essential and moral now it does not. Circumstances change and things like morality should change as well.

Where as this I completely disagree with. What you are referring to is a set of ethical standards. And while ethics is simply a set of standards that society can agree to. Morality remains a personal choice for any person regardless of them being theist or atheist.
 
There is not a single piece of evidence from someone who actually met Jesus or was alive at the time of Jesus.
Wrong. FYI, the early church fathers were UNANIMOUS that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote the Gospels that bear their names, thus making Matthew and John (plus Peter via Mark and Peter in his epistle) CONTEMPORARY EYEWITNESSES TO JESUS AND HIS RESURRECTION.

It's all hearsay and second claims.

If that's your standard you'll need to trash most of your history books, because an exceptionally large part of them are based on eyewitness testimonies and hearsay.

J. Warner Wallace, a former atheist, and a cold case homicide detective familiar with the laws of evidence in a courtroom, commented on Eyewitness Reliability Related to Chronological Truths:

"The standard for establishing historical truths must, by necessity, be very different than the standard for criminal trials, unless, of course, we are willing to reject any claim of history for which we don’t have a living eyewitness (to cross-examine). History is established on the written testimony of eyewitnesses or the research of historians who have access to such testimony. If we rejected every claim about the past that couldn’t be supported by living testimony, we’d be forced to live in the present, unsure of anything that precedes us by more than two generations."


https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/why-the-hearsay-rule-shouldnt-apply-to-the-gospels/

So, you ready to trash your ancient history books, based on your own standards of evidence?


The idea of a rising and dying savior born of a virgin birth in December is a very old religious concept. jesus is just the latest rendition of this idea.

The Bible doesn't say Jesus was born in December. It was more likely September or October.

Also, Here's 23 reasons why scholars know Jesus is NOT a copy of pagan religions


Theistic religious belief is a test of logic that believers fail.

Couldn't prove it by the half-baked claims you put out. You're 0-4 here
 
Wrong. FYI, the early church fathers were UNANIMOUS that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote the Gospels that bear their names, thus making Matthew and John (plus Peter via Mark and Peter in his epistle) CONTEMPORARY EYEWITNESSES TO JESUS AND HIS RESURRECTION.



If that's your standard you'll need to trash most of your history books, because an exceptionally large part of them are based on eyewitness testimonies and hearsay.

J. Warner Wallace, a former atheist, and a cold case homicide detective familiar with the laws of evidence in a courtroom, commented on Eyewitness Reliability Related to Chronological Truths:

"The standard for establishing historical truths must, by necessity, be very different than the standard for criminal trials, unless, of course, we are willing to reject any claim of history for which we don’t have a living eyewitness (to cross-examine). History is established on the written testimony of eyewitnesses or the research of historians who have access to such testimony. If we rejected every claim about the past that couldn’t be supported by living testimony, we’d be forced to live in the present, unsure of anything that precedes us by more than two generations."


https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/why-the-hearsay-rule-shouldnt-apply-to-the-gospels/

So, you ready to trash your ancient history books, based on your own standards of evidence?




The Bible doesn't say Jesus was born in December. It was more likely September or October.

Also, Here's 23 reasons why scholars know Jesus is NOT a copy of pagan religions




Couldn't prove it by the half-baked claims you put out. You're 0-4 here
There were no contemporary witnesses to the execution and resurrection. None, zero. nada.

Your religious sources are laughably biased. Yes, I have no problem trashing religious sources that make absurd religious claims. It's called circular logic and its based on faith and belief, so its very easy to debunk.

No, it isn't. But yours is.

Your mortality is very subjective to your Christian sect because all Protestant sects do not have the same moral beliefs.
Beats Lisa's follies.
I am a Humanist. I don't believe in a sky daddy that tells me that rape, murder, torture, slavery, and genocide are permissible, so I am morally ahead of you in one sentence.

 
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There were no contemporary witnesses to the execution and resurrection. None, zero. nada.

Your religious sources are laughably biased.
You've already been busted on this. The bias is yours.

Your mortality is very subjective to your Christian sect because all Protestant sects do not have the same moral beliefs.

Strawman. You morality is based on God's moral laws. If Protestants abrogate those moral laws of God that's on them.

I am a Humanist. I don't believe in a sky daddy that tells me that rape, murder, torture, slavery, and genocide are permissible, so I am morally ahead of you in one sentence.


It appears the god of liberals and Democrats is the devil himself.

Abortion Democrats 2.jpg
 
You've already been busted on this. The bias is yours.
The fact that people disagree with your beliefs is not biased. It's a fact.
Strawman. You morality is based on God's moral laws. If Protestants abrogate those moral laws of God that's on them.

Which Christian sects are gods laws because they are all not the same?
It appears the god of liberals and Democrats is the devil himself.

View attachment 67414728
A personal attack. Nowhere in the bible is abortion mentioned. Your god is not pro-life. I can't be the devil because neither the god or the devil exists. You have not been able to prove objectively that your god exists. Keep trying.
 
Which is the nonsense you tell yourself.
Your posts are all just so weak. You are just not a worthy adversary in these discussions. These are tantrums, not arguments.
 
It's a fact they're history and theologically challenged.

Theology is no different from mythology.
You're breathing, aren't you? And don't confuse divine justice with murder.
The fact that I am breathing is the responsibility of biology and not theology.
 
I am providing an opportunity for everyone to view these videos to get a very honest understanding as to why the Bible is both true and the Word of GOD. If you are not interested please don't watch these ----- just go about your business and let eternity take its course. I don't need to debate what already has been run through the mill. This is just a consolidated grouping for Christians to review and ponder. Atheists need not view. https://genesisapologetics.com/seve..._Cn5nCzBj35EgHSjkpaEpZfd052Fgc9IaApNnEALw_wcB

Part 1
I'll go through them one by one:

1. On the argument from eyewitnesses, it has recently been discovered that eyewitness testimony isn't 100% reliable. Don't get me wrong, it certainly increases the probability that something is true but it doesn't prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. You see, there's something called the Mandela Effect, named after the many people who recalled Nelson Mandela, future president of South Africa, dying in prison. There was an animated show called the Berenstain Bears, even though many remember it being called the Berenstein Bears. There was another animated show of Mr. Bean. Despite most viewers recalling it being much longer, it only had 15 episodes. Now you might reply that these are but small details compared to someone still being alive. To that I bring up Elvis sightings. After Elvis Presley's death in 1977, there were many people who reported seeing him. All of this is relatively benign, but it's led to false convictions under the mistaken belief that it could prove beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of the defendant.

Another thing worth noting is that the burden of proof is higher for certain claim. This is best exemplified by Carl Sagan who once said that (extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". This is why the gospel books and eyewitness accounts are enough proof to show that a man by the name of Jesus (or Yeshua Bin Yosef) really existed. Over 7 billion people exist right now, so to say that someone existed doesn't require a very high burden or proof. However, the claim that Jesus healed people, walked on water, rose from the dead, and rose into the sky, are very extraordinary claims because they are understood to be scientifically impossible.

2. It mentioned radiometric dating but what it doesn't mention is the starlight problem. You see, a light year is the distance that light travels over the course of a year. In other words, the closest star, Proxima Centauri, is 4 light years away, meaning that we see it as it was 4 years ago. If the universe were really only 6,000 years old, how come we're able to see stars further away than 6,000 light years? We can even see galaxies billions of light years away. If the speed of light is constant, the universe must be at least 13.6 billion years old. A common young earth creationist counterargument is that the speed of light decayed. The problem with this is that there's no evidence that the speed of light is decaying. If the speed of light were ever fast enough to travel billions of light years instantaneously, that would make the earth practically inhospitable due to sunlight.
 
Part 2
3.
I'm going to skip this one

4. There's a lot to cover for this one. An often cited creationist argument is that life is too complex to have evolved on its own but I feel like this is due to people perceiving that anything complex must have come from the top down rather than bottom up. I find a good parallel to be the free market. The reason we have products to buy is not because of any top down system (i.e. the government) but because people decided that it was in their own self interests. Take the pencil for example. It's a very mundane object, very simple as well. Yet nobody knows how to make a pencil. Yet we still have pencils because the people involved in its production act in self interest. To get even more complex, we have smartphones. Not only are they more complex but they require minerals from around the world.

As Adam Smith so eloquently put it:
It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages.
So how does all of this apply to evolution? Well, evolution is really natural selection. Any creature which manages to survive and reproduce will pass on its genes. However, especially with sexual reproduction, the offspring aren't exactly like their parents. For most offspring, these differences are quite small. But for some, they can be quite big. These differences are called genetic mutations. Many of these mutations are harmful and lead to the death of the offspring but some are beneficial. Take bacteria for example. Some bacteria are resistant to antibiotics while others aren't. The former bacteria have better odds of surviving in environments were antibiotics are frequent than the latter ones. A common way of viewing evolution is as a progression. That's how creationists often portray it but I think that this is a mistaken view. The only end goal in mind was surviving to the next generation and this is what we got. The only criteria used to determine whether a gene is harmful or beneficial is whether it further enables survival and bringing forth offspring. In fact, this can actually change based on environmental circumstances. Take for example the peppered moth. Most such moths were white because they were more difficult for birds to see on tree barks, especially in the sunlight. However, when Great Britain went through the industrial revolution, the tree barks became darker due to pollution, making the white moths easier to see and the black ones harder to see. This selection process was so strong that black moths went from just 0.01% of all moths to 98% by the end of the 19th century. Another example has to do with elephants, rhinos, and deer. By default, they are selected in favor of large tusks, horns, and antlers respectively. However, when poachers sought them for their ivory and for trophies, those with smaller such had more reproductive success since they didn’t get poached.

This point also mentions mitochondrial eve and Y chromosomal adam. Creationists use this to prove that Adam and Eve really did exist since we all had two common ancestors but that's not what it means. Mitochondrial eve is the first woman that every female will bump into when going up the matrilineal line. Y chromosomal adam is the first man that every male will bump into by going up the patrilineal line. These two people didn't even have to be around at the same time nor are they necessarily the youngest common ancestors of every human being.

DNA might actually prove the theory of evolution.

Let me explain

Every single creature has DNA. Primates have DNA which is 99% identical to humans. Bananas have DNA which is 50% identical to humans (apparently, the atheist's worst nightmare is actually the creationist's worst nightmare). What this all points towards is the notion that all life has a common ancestor.
 
Part 3

5.
All I have to say on the flood is that it's a logistical black hole.

Firstly, the ark needs to have enough food for the animals to eat for 371 days. This is especially a problem for carnivores who need meat.

Secondly, how did plants fare during the flood? The Bible mentions that the waters reached higher than the highest mountain (i.e. Mt. Everest). This means that pretty much all plant life would not only see the lack of sunlight from being thousands of feet below sea level but possibly also get crushed (no more trees).

Thirdly, aquatic life probably didn't fare much better either. If the floodwater was freshwater, this would kill life which adapted to salt water and vice versa is true as well.

Fourthly, since all of the plants are now dead, it would be extremely difficult to survive in this new world, let alone repopulate it. Carnivores wouldn't be able to survive without driving an entire species extinct. This would b a problem unless Noah brought dinosaurs onto the ark but many of them are too big to fit, so that would create a whole new set of problems.

Fifthly, that isn't even touching upon the challenges of hosting animals which adapted to surviving in different climates into a single boat with no climate control. For example, a warm climate would likely be fatal to penguins and polar bears.

And finally, you then have the issue of how all of these animals got back to where they're supposed to be. Presumably, animals living in the western hemisphere crossed the ice bridge between Russia and Alaska. This means that every animal residing in the western hemisphere had to cross very cold climates to get to where they were supposed to be. If anything, it was even colder because there had to be that land bridge and sea level had to be low enough for marsupials to get to Australia. This probably wouldn't pose much of an issue to buffalo which have thick skin and fur but cold blooded animals like alligators and frogs would presumably die in cold climates.

6. The origins of the book of Genesis are disputed by historians, so I'll be skipping this one.

7. This seems to entail that dinosaurs were actually brought onto the ark. The main problem that we run into is how all of these dinosaurs managed to fit onto the ark. Presumably, God killed off the T-Rex, otherwise, it would have killed all the other animals. Perhaps dinosaurs were brought onto the ark to help the predators survive but dead bodies decay which isn't very appealing to carnivores which aren't scavengers.
 
Part 1
I'll go through them one by one:

1. On the argument from eyewitnesses, it has recently been discovered that eyewitness testimony isn't 100% reliable. Don't get me wrong, it certainly increases the probability that something is true but it doesn't prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. You see, there's something called the Mandela Effect, named after the many people who recalled Nelson Mandela, future president of South Africa, dying in prison. There was an animated show called the Berenstain Bears, even though many remember it being called the Berenstein Bears. There was another animated show of Mr. Bean. Despite most viewers recalling it being much longer, it only had 15 episodes. Now you might reply that these are but small details compared to someone still being alive. To that I bring up Elvis sightings. After Elvis Presley's death in 1977, there were many people who reported seeing him. All of this is relatively benign, but it's led to false convictions under the mistaken belief that it could prove beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of the defendant.
500 people witnessed JESUS' assentation. JESUS was all over Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria. 2000 years ago there were few questions that JESUS existed. As we move towards now, there are those who simply will not accept any record whatsoever --- short of JESUS showing up on there doorstep. And even back then with JESUS there ---- there were those who rejected HIM ---- even with all the miracles.
Another thing worth noting is that the burden of proof is higher for certain claim. This is best exemplified by Carl Sagan who once said that (extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". This is why the gospel books and eyewitness accounts are enough proof to show that a man by the name of Jesus (or Yeshua Bin Yosef) really existed. Over 7 billion people exist right now, so to say that someone existed doesn't require a very high burden or proof. However, the claim that Jesus healed people, walked on water, rose from the dead, and rose into the sky, are very extraordinary claims because they are understood to be scientifically impossible.
Carl Sagan unfortunately apparently died an atheist. I feel evolution (the kind that is supposed to have produced all the species that exist is an extraordinary claim that has never been proven as absolute fact.
2. It mentioned radiometric dating but what it doesn't mention is the starlight problem. You see, a light year is the distance that light travels over the course of a year. In other words, the closest star, Proxima Centauri, is 4 light years away, meaning that we see it as it was 4 years ago. If the universe were really only 6,000 years old, how come we're able to see stars further away than 6,000 light years? We can even see galaxies billions of light years away. If the speed of light is constant, the universe must be at least 13.6 billion years old. A common young earth creationist counterargument is that the speed of light decayed. The problem with this is that there's no evidence that the speed of light is decaying. If the speed of light were ever fast enough to travel billions of light years instantaneously, that would make the earth practically inhospitable due to sunlight.
Here is the oddball thing. The Bible writers, without seemingly knowing anything with regard to a speed of light etc., actually solved that problem (or actually GOD took care to the problem. GOD created the light FIRST before GOD created the source of that light. So the light technically was already in a state of arrival. Light was created in the first day and then GOD created the source of light on the fourth day. Another shocker is that in the Bible, thousands of years ago GOD indicates that HE is stretching out the heavens ---- an ongoing process of stretching. How would anyone thousands of years ago even realize that those lights in the sky are moving out. Kids that are not exposed to the Bible are simply missing out on absolute wonder of it all.
Psalm 104:2
The LORD wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent
 
Part 2
3.
I'm going to skip this one

4. There's a lot to cover for this one. An often cited creationist argument is that life is too complex to have evolved on its own but I feel like this is due to people perceiving that anything complex must have come from the top down rather than bottom up. I find a good parallel to be the free market. The reason we have products to buy is not because of any top down system (i.e. the government) but because people decided that it was in their own self interests. Take the pencil for example. It's a very mundane object, very simple as well. Yet nobody knows how to make a pencil. Yet we still have pencils because the people involved in its production act in self interest. To get even more complex, we have smartphones. Not only are they more complex but they require minerals from around the world.

As Adam Smith so eloquently put it:

So how does all of this apply to evolution? Well, evolution is really natural selection. Any creature which manages to survive and reproduce will pass on its genes. However, especially with sexual reproduction, the offspring aren't exactly like their parents. For most offspring, these differences are quite small. But for some, they can be quite big. These differences are called genetic mutations. Many of these mutations are harmful and lead to the death of the offspring but some are beneficial. Take bacteria for example. Some bacteria are resistant to antibiotics while others aren't. The former bacteria have better odds of surviving in environments were antibiotics are frequent than the latter ones. A common way of viewing evolution is as a progression. That's how creationists often portray it but I think that this is a mistaken view. The only end goal in mind was surviving to the next generation and this is what we got. The only criteria used to determine whether a gene is harmful or beneficial is whether it further enables survival and bringing forth offspring. In fact, this can actually change based on environmental circumstances. Take for example the peppered moth. Most such moths were white because they were more difficult for birds to see on tree barks, especially in the sunlight. However, when Great Britain went through the industrial revolution, the tree barks became darker due to pollution, making the white moths easier to see and the black ones harder to see. This selection process was so strong that black moths went from just 0.01% of all moths to 98% by the end of the 19th century. Another example has to do with elephants, rhinos, and deer. By default, they are selected in favor of large tusks, horns, and antlers respectively. However, when poachers sought them for their ivory and for trophies, those with smaller such had more reproductive success since they didn’t get poached.

This point also mentions mitochondrial eve and Y chromosomal adam. Creationists use this to prove that Adam and Eve really did exist since we all had two common ancestors but that's not what it means. Mitochondrial eve is the first woman that every female will bump into when going up the matrilineal line. Y chromosomal adam is the first man that every male will bump into by going up the patrilineal line. These two people didn't even have to be around at the same time nor are they necessarily the youngest common ancestors of every human being.

DNA might actually prove the theory of evolution.

Let me explain

Every single creature has DNA. Primates have DNA which is 99% identical to humans. Bananas have DNA which is 50% identical to humans (apparently, the atheist's worst nightmare is actually the creationist's worst nightmare). What this all points towards is the notion that all life has a common ancestor.
Sorry, but we now know (unlike Darwin) that even the seemingly most simple organism isn't simple at all. The DNA is not simple. At some point the atheistic scientist pushing abiogenesis must conclude that there's a complex issue and not some simple answer outside of GOD that they do not desire to promote --- and would rather bury...
 
Part 3

5.
All I have to say on the flood is that it's a logistical black hole.

Firstly, the ark needs to have enough food for the animals to eat for 371 days. This is especially a problem for carnivores who need meat.

Secondly, how did plants fare during the flood? The Bible mentions that the waters reached higher than the highest mountain (i.e. Mt. Everest). This means that pretty much all plant life would not only see the lack of sunlight from being thousands of feet below sea level but possibly also get crushed (no more trees).

Thirdly, aquatic life probably didn't fare much better either. If the floodwater was freshwater, this would kill life which adapted to salt water and vice versa is true as well.

Fourthly, since all of the plants are now dead, it would be extremely difficult to survive in this new world, let alone repopulate it. Carnivores wouldn't be able to survive without driving an entire species extinct. This would b a problem unless Noah brought dinosaurs onto the ark but many of them are too big to fit, so that would create a whole new set of problems.

Fifthly, that isn't even touching upon the challenges of hosting animals which adapted to surviving in different climates into a single boat with no climate control. For example, a warm climate would likely be fatal to penguins and polar bears.

And finally, you then have the issue of how all of these animals got back to where they're supposed to be. Presumably, animals living in the western hemisphere crossed the ice bridge between Russia and Alaska. This means that every animal residing in the western hemisphere had to cross very cold climates to get to where they were supposed to be. If anything, it was even colder because there had to be that land bridge and sea level had to be low enough for marsupials to get to Australia. This probably wouldn't pose much of an issue to buffalo which have thick skin and fur but cold blooded animals like alligators and frogs would presumably die in cold climates.
What you are concluding lacks several logical consideration. All humankind that exists to day came from three couples (the 3 sons and their 3 wives of Noah). So technically all the canine kind could be the decedents of a pair of wolves. The same could be just as true of the cat kind. It can be presumed that many animals may have simply hibernated through much of the Flood. We know (because the Bible says so) that some animals were taken upon the ark in 7's and some were taken only as single couples. There is simply too much specific information provided for this recorded event to have been the brainchild of a shepherd wondering around.
 
What you are concluding lacks several logical consideration. All humankind that exists to day came from three couples (the 3 sons and their 3 wives of Noah). So technically all the canine kind could be the decedents of a pair of wolves. The same could be just as true of the cat kind. It can be presumed that many animals may have simply hibernated through much of the Flood. We know (because the Bible says so) that some animals were taken upon the ark in 7's and some were taken only as single couples. There is simply too much specific information provided for this recorded event to have been the brainchild of a shepherd wondering around.

Your initial premise about human beings is wrong so everything that follows is wrong.
 
Your initial premise about human beings is wrong so everything that follows is wrong.
It seems that scientist agree that man's ancestry goes back to one couple. Their length of time they get wrong but they got the number of people correct (2) --- one male and one female.
 
It seems that scientist agree that man's ancestry goes back to one couple. Their length of time they get wrong but they got the number of people correct (2) --- one male and one female.

No, it doesn't "seem" this way at all.
 
It seems that scientist agree that man's ancestry goes back to one couple.
It only seems that way to the willfully ignorant.

The same type of willfully ignorant folks that claim evolution couldn’t be true because they’ve never witnessed a dog turn into a monkey.
 
That's false. Y chromosome Adam and mitochondrial eve did not live at the same time.
"The Book of Genesis puts Adam and Eve together in the Garden of Eden, but geneticists’ version of the duo — the ancestors to whom the Y chromosomes and mitochondrial DNA of today’s humans can be traced — were thought to have lived tens of thousands of years apart. Now, two major studies of modern humans’ Y chromosomes suggest that ‘Y-chromosome Adam’ and ‘mitochondrial Eve’ may have lived around the same time after all."

 
"The Book of Genesis puts Adam and Eve together in the Garden of Eden, but geneticists’ version of the duo — the ancestors to whom the Y chromosomes and mitochondrial DNA of today’s humans can be traced — were thought to have lived tens of thousands of years apart. Now, two major studies of modern humans’ Y chromosomes suggest that ‘Y-chromosome Adam’ and ‘mitochondrial Eve’ may have lived around the same time after all."

"Around the same time"

But almost certainly not at the same time. Or place. The odds against it are astronomical.
 
It only seems that way to the willfully ignorant.

The same type of willfully ignorant folks that claim evolution couldn’t be true because they’ve never witnessed a dog turn into a monkey.
You seem to pick and choose what scientists say as long as it is contrary to what the Bible says --- it's correct.... I get it.
 
You seem to pick and choose what scientists say as long as it is contrary to what the Bible says --- it's correct.... I get it.
What’s the ratio of scientists that say the universe is 6000 years old, to the scientists that say it’s roughly 14 billion years old?
 
What’s the ratio of scientists that say the universe is 6000 years old, to the scientists that say it’s roughly 14 billion years old?
What does it really matter? Broad is the way that leads to destruction and many travel that route...
 
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