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Debunking the 7 Myths Regarding the Bible

Galactic Spin

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I've never heard anyone make the argument that God had to try really, really, really hard to pull this one off.

It was not done to make people believe.
Right, which is another gross aspect of the immoral proposal that is christianity.
 

Mulefoot

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Right, which is another gross aspect of the immoral proposal that is christianity.
If the resurrection had been a dog and pony show designed to somehow induce you to sign your name on the dotted line, it'd a been morally superior?
 

Galactic Spin

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If the resurrection had been a dog and pony show designed to somehow induce you to sign your name on the dotted line, it'd a been morally superior?
I am not sure you understand that phrase (dog and pony show). The resurrection is the entire basis of your religion. No resurrection = no christianity.

It would be morally superior not to expect sentient, rational beings to believe extraordinary, magical claims without evidence, under threat of penalty.
 

Mulefoot

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I am not sure you understand that phrase (dog and pony show). The resurrection is the entire basis of your religion. No resurrection = no christianity.

It would be morally superior not to expect sentient, rational beings to believe extraordinary, magical claims without evidence, under threat of penalty.
There is no penalty except death - the wages of sin are death.

Consider yourself fortunate for your threescore and ten and move on.
 

Galactic Spin

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There is no penalty except death - the wages of sin are death.
First of all, thas a lie contradicted by the Bible.

Second: Oh, that's all?

I can't believe you just typed that with a straight face. This is what religion does to an otherwise ethical and moral mind.
 

Galactic Spin

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It is not...

"For the wages sin pays is death," Romans 6:23
Actually it is. Now quote the parts about not believing in God and Jesus. Unless you need an atheist to sponfeed them to you.
 

devildavid

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I've never heard anyone make the argument that God had to try really, really, really hard to pull this one off.

It was not done to make people believe.

You don't understand. God could do whatever this was supposed to accomplish any way it wanted. So why choose the torture and brutal killing followed by the resurrecting of a human being to accomplish this goal? Why do it this way? And why is the resurrection the key to christian belief?
 

Galactic Spin

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If you like believing lies, that's on you...
So would you have been one of rhe people happily delivering the sentence 1000 years ago?

Luke 19:27 ESV votes
"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”
 

Galactic Spin

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But wait, there's more! LOTS more.

Matthew 25:46
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

So apparently it's more than just "death'", contrary to what was said earlier.
 

Elora

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So would you have been one of rhe people happily delivering the sentence 1000 years ago?

Luke 19:27 ESV votes
"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”
What part of being dead do you not understand? lol...
 

Elora

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The how it makes me suffer for eternity part. That part. Explain it please.

Sure...no problem...

Is “the eternal fire” Jesus warned of literal or symbolic? Note that “the eternal fire” mentioned by Jesus and recorded at Matthew 25:41 was prepared “for the devil and his angels.” Do you think that literal fire can burn spirit creatures? Or was Jesus using the term “fire” symbolically? Certainly “the sheep” and “the goats” mentioned in the same discourse are not literal; they are word pictures that represent two types of people. (Matthew 25:32, 33) The eternal fire that Jesus spoke of completely burns up the wicked in a figurative sense.

In what sense do the wicked “go off to eternal punishment”? Although most translations use the word “punishment” at Matthew 25:46, the basic meaning of the Greek word koʹla·sin is “checking the growth of trees,” or pruning, cutting off needless branches. So while the sheeplike ones receive everlasting life, the unrepentant goatlike ones suffer “eternal punishment,” being forever cut off from life.

Jesus never taught that humans have an immortal soul. However, he often did teach about the resurrection of the dead. (Luke 14:13, 14; John 5:25-29; 11:25) Why would Jesus say that the dead would be resurrected if he believed that their souls had not died?

Jesus did not teach that God would maliciously torture the wicked forever. Rather, Jesus said: “God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.” (John 3:16, NAB) Why would Jesus imply that those who did not believe in him would die? If he really meant that they would live forever, suffering misery in a fiery hell, would he not have said so?

The doctrine that hell is a place of torment is not based on the Bible. Rather, it is a pagan belief masquerading as a Christian teaching. (See the box “A Brief History of Hell,” on page 6.) No, God does not torture people eternally in hell. How can learning the truth about hell affect your attitude toward God?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008802
 

Galactic Spin

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I think most christians would disagree with you, and instead call it being "cut off from God", not just death and nothingness. That takes an extra leap.

In other words, in your apologetic version, death is the same as before I was born. Which is, of course, what actually happens to everyone who has ever lived.

And how could the dead then also reside in Hades? The dead wouldn't have to "reside" anywhere. The dead simply don't exist any longer, in your apologetic version.
 

Elora

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I think most christians would disagree with you, and instead call it being "cut off from God", not just death and nothingness. That takes an extra leap.

In other words, in your apologetic version, death is the same as before I was born. Which is, of course, what actually happens to everyone who has ever lived.

And how could the dead then also reside in Hades? The dead wouldn't have to "reside" anywhere. The dead simply don't exist any longer, in your apologetic version.

So, tell me...what does Solomon say the condition of the dead is? Are they conscious somewhere? Can they feel pain?

"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten...Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going." Ecclesiastes 9:5,10
 

Mulefoot

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First of all, thas a lie contradicted by the Bible.

Second: Oh, that's all?

I can't believe you just typed that with a straight face. This is what religion does to an otherwise ethical and moral mind.
Where's the contradiction?
 

Galactic Spin

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So, tell me...what does Solomon say the condition of the dead is? Are they conscious somewhere? Can they feel pain?

"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten...Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going." Ecclesiastes 9:5,10
Okay, you offer the words of Solomon, I offer the words of Jesus. I feel like I'm up a few points.


Either way, I like your version better than the silly, magical threat of eternal suffering (@LittleNipper won't agree).
 

Elora

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Okay, you offer the words of Solomon, I offer the words of Jesus. I feel like I'm up a few points.


Either way, I like your version better than the silly, magical threat of eternal suffering (@LittleNipper won't agree).
Maybe you should go back and read the link I gave you in the previous post...when considering Solomon's words, and Jesus' words, in the context explained, they do jive...and frankly I don't care what others think/say...i care about the truth of God's Word...
 

tosca1

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So, tell me...what does Solomon say the condition of the dead is? Are they conscious somewhere? Can they feel pain?

"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten...Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going." Ecclesiastes 9:5,10

@Galactic Spin


Elora, you're wrong.
You've taken that out of context.

Solomon was contemplating from a worldly perspective when he said that.

He's simply saying what is true - people know everyone will die. Physically. They know because it's something that they see happening
Physical death. That's a UNIVERSAL TRUTH!




Second, Solomon stated that “the dead know not anything.” Religious
materialists have long misapplied this passage by asserting that the dead are unconscious.
Such a view makes this passage conflict with numerous other texts which clearly indicate that the dead are aware of the environment in which they exist (cf. Isaiah 14:9; Luke 16:19ff).
The fact is, Solomon’s declaration merely affirms that the dead are not cognizant of events transpiring “under the sun” (9:6b), i.e., on earth.The dead are not privy to anything that is happening upon this planet.

Third, the dead have no more a reward for deeds which are done upon the
earth. While the deceased were alive, earthly rewards were theirs; now, such
are forever beyond their grasp.

Fourth, Solomon avers that one’s ministry, as a general rule, will be
short-lived. While it is true that a few notables leave their historical
impressions for several generations, usually that is not the case.

Fifth, the wise king observes that the dead have no more a portion

forever in earthly activities.

 

tosca1

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@Galactic Spin

Elora, you can't say for sure that fire is just a symbolism. It could be......but we cannot preach that it is. We don't know for certain.
We cannot presume and change it.........adding our own preference to it.
If we're unsure - we better say it by the Book!
Changing anything, would bring upon a horrible consequence for us.

The graphic description of fire has been repeated several times in the bible. Therefore, it could be literal - a fire that is unquenchable.


Whereas, verses you claim to have debunked eternal punishments in hell, are at best something JW had taken out of context.

One thing for certain, is, eternal punishment. As is.
 
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tosca1

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So would you have been one of rhe people happily delivering the sentence 1000 years ago?

Luke 19:27 ESV votes
"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”

@Elora

That's from a parable.


Luke 19

The Parable of the Ten Minas

11 As they heard these things, he proceeded to tell a parable, because he was near to Jerusalem, and because they supposed that the kingdom of God was to appear immediately.
12 He said therefore, “A nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and then return.

13 Calling ten of his servants,[a] he gave them ten minas, and said to them, ‘Engage in business until I come.’
14 But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We do not want this man to reign over us.’
15 When he returned, having received the kingdom, he ordered these servants to whom he had given the money to be called to him, that he might know what they had gained by doing business.
16 The first came before him, saying, ‘Lord, your mina has made ten minas more.’
17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant! Because you have been faithful in a very little, you shall have authority over ten cities.’
18 And the second came, saying, ‘Lord, your mina has made five minas.’
19 And he said to him, ‘And you are to be over five cities.’

20 Then another came, saying, ‘Lord, here is your mina, which I kept laid away in a handkerchief;
21 for I was afraid of you, because you are a severe man. You take what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’
22 He said to him, ‘I will condemn you with your own words, you wicked servant! You knew that I was a severe man, taking what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow?

23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, and at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’
24 And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to the one who has the ten minas.’
25 And they said to him, ‘Lord, he has ten minas!’

26 ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
27 But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”




In this parable, Jesus teaches several things about the Millennial Kingdom and the time leading up to it. As Luke 19:11 indicates, Jesus’ most basic point is that the kingdom was not going to appear immediately. There would be a period of time, during which the king would be absent, before the kingdom would be set up.

The enemies who rejected the king in the parable are representative of the Jewish nation that rejected Christ while He walked on earth—and everyone who still denies Him today.
When Jesus returns to establish His kingdom, one of the first things He will do is utterly defeat His enemies (Revelation 19:11–15). It does not pay to fight against the King of kings.

 
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