Debate Tactics

Dishonest debaters, we expect them when engaging on discussion boards.

They love using whataboutisms.
Talk about a police killing a black man, and you get "whatabout" all them blacks killing blacks.

They love using deflections.
Criticize a statement made by a Republican, and you get "yeah but" Joe Biden

They love being dismissive.
You make a valid point and you are termed a "hater" or just another "liberal" or my favorite one "you are dismissed"

They love avoiding a direct question.
Ask them a straight up yes or no question, like one I tried once, have you ever listened to a black man, and you get something about reverse racism or the question is nonsensical - anything rather than answer the question.

They love insults.
I mean, they don't even "get" why I adopted the username "Snowflake". Hint, it never was effective as an insult in the first place.

AND they love their sources.
AmericanThinker, Epoch Times, Fox, Breitbart, the list goes on and on.
The irony? They moan and groan about "the MSM"
Point out how their sources have failed factchecks they claim factcheckers are biased and fake.

They also love to accuse you of "trolling" - every time you nail them on a topic. Or of lying. Trump made a fool out of himself again and you point it out and they say you are "lying". Hilarious.

AND I probably shouldn't even mention the outright racism on display.
"Thugs" when describing BLM rioters, and just before posting this someone used "Kameltoe" to describe Kamala Harris on another thread. Obomo and Obummer used to be popular. The most criticized and attacked public figures on discussion boards? AOC and Maxime Waters. Police killing of a black man? They should have obeyed and not resisted.
But hey, don't mention racism to them, they will call YOU a racist, apparently you are racist against whites, even if you are white yourself.

YET they will continue to use such tactics, because they can't "see" how using such tactics looks on them. Are they oblivious?

 

[Fishking]

I guess you missed the part where I said:
They love insults.
I mean, they don't even "get" why I adopted the username "Snowflake". Hint, it never was effective as an insult in the first place.

but go ahead, us snowflakes can take it, it only makes the name-caller look small.

Yes...I know why you picked your name, and you've also said it like 500 times in this thread. It's not hard to figure out, but that you think it's clever is funny.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

I haven't seen anyone say 1/6 was OK, feel free to show otherwise.

You’ve seen plenty of Republicans insist it either wasn’t a big deal or whataboutantifablm, and those same Republicans wholeheartedly support the idea that the election was stolen from Trump, which absolutely created teh climate for that insurrection. You even spent posts and posts mocking Sicknick’s injuries as though you haven’t seen footage of him being attacked. That it turned out he didn’t die from injuries that day doesn’t change that day.

Your post here is a perfect example of disingenious bullshit. It’s been the Republicans entire drive to define down Jan 6 because those weren’t antifa and blm flags rampaging through our capitol beating up cops. After years of promising us the left would try to burn down democracy, y’ll are scrambling to figure out how to explain MAGA flags being used to beat the shit out of folks protecting congress from casting legal votes.

 

[Fishking]

You’ve seen plenty of Republicans insist it either wasn’t a big deal or whataboutantifablm,

Ah...moving the goal posts away from people saying it was "OK" because you knew it was utter bullshit? So now I get to pick apart the entirely new claims.
1. Did they say it wasn't a big deal or did they say that the left blew it out of proportion?
2. What point is being made by talking about the Summer of Love? Is it to excuse what happened or is it to call out the hypocrisy of the left going on about a 4 hr event but turning a blind eye to systemic, widespread, and nearly mainstreamed violence and that they should shut the **** up because they have no standing?

 

[Juks]

Maybe I should post this rant on another thread but this is the one I am reading at the moment so: How I would wish this fotball game should end and everyone wake up from it and start thinking politics...

@Fishking : You are not a Trumpie as far as I can see, you do not support what happended during the 6th of January. You do not support Trumps try to steel the election, intellectually. BUT STILL YOU COME OUT AS DEFENDING IT AND BELITTLE IT and you will vote for whatever candidate Trump approve off in your state, just because you are a Republican and you have lost site on what that means to you except that it means you are NOT a democrat...

Recurring are comments from both Republicans and Democrats that no one ever changes sides. But why would they? When it comes to political views, pretty much everything falls within both the Democratic and the Republican Party. There are two almost filled circles. From pro-life, deeply religious and opponents of public health in the Democrat party to talks about workers rights and controlled immigration in the Republican party. Everything goes, almost. Just a little little opening in the Democrats party were the far right doesn't have a place and a little little opening in the Republican party were the far left doesn't have a saying. That's it. In reality both parties are very close in politics if you look at what they actually do, when elected. (In this Biden is really different from any president during my lifetime. But I suspect he wants to drive the country so far towards left liberatism that it will be hard to totally nullify for the next president. He hasn't been like this before in his career)

It's a football match where you are almost born to cheer on a team. The game is the country. The parties the teams. It has nothing to do with political convictions so why and how should anyone change team? Why even think about it if both team are the same but just have different colors on the outfit and it gives you a sence of belonging?

Because even though no one has changed team, the Trump movement has highjacked one of the teams and decided that fotball no longer is the game. So either you love the team more than the game or you love the game more than the team. That's it.

 

[j brown's body]

Ah...moving the goal posts away from people saying it was "OK" because you knew it was utter bullshit? So now I get to pick apart the entirely new claims.
1. Did they say it wasn't a big deal or did they say that the left blew it out of proportion?
2. What point is being made by talking about the Summer of Love? Is it to excuse what happened or is it to call out the hypocrisy of the left going on about a 4 hr event but turning a blind eye to systemic, widespread, and nearly mainstreamed violence and that they should shut the **** up because they have no standing?

The left points out that the insurrection of 1/6 was an attack on our democracy and our democratic institutions. I don't really see much coming out of your side on this except "look...riots." Its not a rebuttal, its a rationalization for an attempted political coup.

 

[Fishking]

The left points out that the insurrection of 1/6 was an attack on our democracy and our democratic institutions. I don't really see much coming out of your side on this except "look...riots." Its not a rebuttal, its a rationalization for an attempted political coup.

It's not rationalizing anything. It's telling the left they are full of shit and that they should shut the **** up as they have no standing. That's still true.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Yes...I know why you picked your name, and you've also said it like 500 times in this thread. It's not hard to figure out, but that you think it's clever is funny.

very clever, since righties still like to use it, which is hilarious

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

It's not rationalizing anything. It's telling the left they are full of shit and that they should shut the **** up as they have no standing. That's still true.

don't forget, the riot was formented by BLM and Antifa

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Maybe I should post this rant on another thread but this is the one I am reading at the moment so: How I would wish this fotball game should end and everyone wake up from it and start thinking politics...

@Fishking : You are not a Trumpie as far as I can see, you do not support what happended during the 6th of January. You do not support Trumps try to steel the election, intellectually. BUT STILL YOU COME OUT AS DEFENDING IT AND BELITTLE IT and you will vote for whatever candidate Trump approve off in your state, just because you are a Republican and you have lost site on what that means to you except that it means you are NOT a democrat...

Recurring are comments from both Republicans and Democrats that no one ever changes sides. But why would they? When it comes to political views, pretty much everything falls within both the Democratic and the Republican Party. There are two almost filled circles. From pro-life, deeply religious and opponents of public health in the Democrat party to talks about workers rights and controlled immigration in the Republican party. Everything goes, almost. Just a little little opening in the Democrats party were the far right doesn't have a place and a little little opening in the Republican party were the far left doesn't have a saying. That's it. In reality both parties are very close in politics if you look at what they actually do, when elected. (In this Biden is really different from any president during my lifetime. But I suspect he wants to drive the country so far towards left liberatism that it will be hard to totally nullify for the next president. He hasn't been like this before in his career)

It's a football match where you are almost born to cheer on a team. The game is the country. The parties the teams. It has nothing to do with political convictions so why and how should anyone change team? Why even think about it if both team are the same but just have different colors on the outfit and it gives you a sence of belonging?

Because even though no one has changed team, the Trump movement has highjacked one of the teams and decided that fotball no longer is the game. So either you love the team more than the game or you love the game more than the team. That's it.

"Owning" the Libs is not the only concern for Republicans and their supporters. What kills me is they also use this mantra "inside your head rent free" ( I should have added that as one of their tactics ), when in fact every Democrat lives rent free inside THEIR heads.

 

[it's just me]

You guys know this

don't forget, the riot was formented by BLM and Antifa
View attachment 67333143

Okay, attention whore, we heard you the first time .

 

[Fishking]

Maybe I should post this rant on another thread but this is the one I am reading at the moment so: How I would wish this fotball game should end and everyone wake up from it and start thinking politics...

@Fishking : You are not a Trumpie as far as I can see, you do not support what happended during the 6th of January. You do not support Trumps try to steel the election, intellectually. BUT STILL YOU COME OUT AS DEFENDING IT AND BELITTLE IT and you will vote for whatever candidate Trump approve off in your state, just because you are a Republican and you have lost site on what that means to you except that it means you are NOT a democrat.

You're reading things in my comments that aren't there. What happened on the 6th serious, but it lasted 4 hrs and caused minimal damage. Further, it is being seriously addressed by law enforcement and it has no mainstream support. That means it's danger is minimal.

Conversely, far-left riots have been ongoing, sustained, excused, supported, significant, and is allowed to happen on a systemic level. When I tell the left they have no standing to be outraged by 1/6 I mean it. They should shut the **** up until they can find there way to address the greater violence perpetrated by their side. This does not apply to those on the left who were consistent in seriously condemning both actions. How about we have the DA stop releasing leftist rioters for starters, and actually charge them? Why are communities allowed to constantly allowed to be terrorist by the ungoverned?

 

[Fishking]

very clever, since righties still like to use it, which is hilarious

Of course we use it, because it applies. Btw...I thought you weren't going to talk to me anymore after I crushed you on multiple occasions? This makes me happy that you've changed your mind.

 

[Fishking]

don't forget, the riot was formented by BLM and Antifa
View attachment 67333143

Nope....I saw someone/or a thread (can't recall) that brought that up and I told them that was a stupid excuse and to stuff it. That claim was utter bullshit from people that don't want to accept any faults on their side of the aisle.

 

[j brown's body]

It's not rationalizing anything. It's telling the left they are full of shit and that they should shut the **** up as they have no standing. That's still true.

This comment is more meaningless than "but the riots...".

I'd be surprised if you could even explain it.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Of course we use it, because it applies. Btw...I thought you weren't going to talk to me anymore after I crushed you on multiple occasions? This makes me happy that you've changed your mind.

You never crushed me, but if it helps you to think you did, then keep saying it.

 

[Fishking]

This comment is more meaningless than "but the riots...".

I'd be surprised if you could even explain it.

Far be it from me to help you understand a very straightforward comment. Sounds like a "you" issue.

 

[Fishking]

You never crushed me, but if it helps you to think you did, then keep saying it.
There comes a point where engaging with a ........ is counterproductive, sorry if that offends you.

Why would a be offended by someone yipping at my heels? Kinda cute and funny.

 

[j brown's body]

Far be it from me to help you understand a very straightforward comment. Sounds like a "you" issue.

I don't think you understand it. Its just a shallow rationalization. It goes nowhere.

For instance, about the 1/6 insurrection. We can say that the president helped orchestra the overthrow of an elected government. That encouraged people to come to Washington on the day that the votes were certified. These people attacked the Capitol and Trump told them that he loved them. He expected his vice president to break the law and abdicate his constitutional duty by refusing the electoral votes. He told his supporters attacking the capitol that Pence had failed them. Before that, Trump has encouraged militias to liberate states. He encouraged his supporters to stop the steal.

We can say that many Republican legislators were perfectly willing to throw out millions of certified votes to make Trump president. That their denial of the insurrection sets up the possibility of another one in the future that could be successful. GOP state legislatures are passing such laws to allow that now.

Thus the GOP and Trump represent an existential threat to democracy.

And you respond with "but what about the riots last summer?"

And I say "what do you mean? What does that have to do with this?

And you say, in so many words, "I can't tell you." Because, well, you can't. It doesn't make any sense. its a vapid rationalization for a attempted coup.

 

[Fishking]

I don't think you understand it. Its just a shallow rationalization. It goes nowhere.

For instance, about the 1/6 insurrection. We can say that the president helped orchestra the overthrow of an elected government. That encouraged people to come to Washington on the day that the votes were certified. These people attacked the Capitol and Trump told them that he loved them. He expected his vice president to break the law and abdicate his constitutional duty by refusing the electoral votes. He told his supporters attacking the capitol that Pence had failed them. Before that, Trump has encouraged militias to liberate states. He encouraged his supporters to stop the steal.

We can say that many Republican legislators were perfectly willing to throw out millions of certified votes to make Trump president. That their denial of the insurrection sets up the possibility of another one in the future that could be successful. GOP state legislatures are passing such laws to allow that now.

Thus the GOP and Trump represent an existential threat to democracy.

And you respond with "but what about the riots last summer?"

And I say "what do you mean? What does that have to do with this?

And you say, in so many words, "I can't tell you." Because, well, you can't. It doesn't make any sense. its a vapid rationalization for a attempted coup.

I see you're still struggling with basic reading comprehension. No rationalizing has happened. I've merely said that leftist need to shut the **** up, unless they've been consistent in condemning the widespread and greater and systemic violence of the left.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Ah...moving the goal posts away from people saying it was "OK" because you knew it was utter bullshit? So now I get to pick apart the entirely new claims.
1. Did they say it wasn't a big deal or did they say that the left blew it out of proportion?
2. What point is being made by talking about the Summer of Love? Is it to excuse what happened or is it to call out the hypocrisy of the left going on about a 4 hr event but turning a blind eye to systemic, widespread, and nearly mainstreamed violence and that they should shut the **** up because they have no standing?

No, I knew your caveat of them having to vocally full throated support it was moving the goalposts. This is part of the right wing online bullshit trap: ”Give me verbatim someone stating words as I have defined them or you got nuttin’.

But then we get this:

the hypocrisy of the left going on about a 4 hr event but turning a blind eye to systemic, widespread, and nearly mainstreamed violence.

Cite your ”facts”. Show me that all BLM protests were ”systemic” riots, widespread, and “nearly mainstreamed violence” whatever the **** that is. (THe violence committed by Trump voters on Jan 6 were fully mainstream for the GOP: Trump stated repeatedly he didn’t want a peaceful transfer of power if he lost.)

Ghead. Your turn. Live by your own rules. Cite your examples verbatim. Don’t gimme none of that “well, these words can be construed this way and if you look at what resulted…” Nuh uh. You gotta cite words. You gotta cite words that directly correlate to action. And that action better live up to “systemic widespread nearly mainstreamed violence”.

Go…

 

[Fishking]

No, I knew your caveat of them having to vocally full throated support it was moving the goalposts. This is part of the right wing online bullshit trap: ”Give me verbatim someone stating words as I have defined them or you got nuttin’.

You made a claim, couldn't back it up, so now you're trying to weasel out of it.

But then we get this:


Cite your ”facts”. Show me that all BLM protests were ”systemic” riots, widespread, and “nearly mainstreamed violence” whatever the **** that is. (THe violence committed by Trump voters on Jan 6 were fully mainstream for the GOP: Trump stated repeatedly he didn’t want a peaceful transfer of power if he lost.)

Ghead. Your turn. Live by your own rules. Cite your examples verbatim. Don’t gimme none of that “well, these words can be construed this way and if you look at what resulted…” Nuh uh. You gotta cite words. You gotta cite words that directly correlate to action. And that action better live up to “systemic widespread nearly mainstreamed violence”.

Go…

Any other easy requests?

Looters, rioters not being prosecuted by circuit attorney, says attorney general; Kim Gardner responds

St. Louis police arrested 36 people during violent protests. All have been released without criminal charges

www.ksdk.com

Hundreds of Portland protesters will see their criminal cases dropped as DA announces plan to ‘recognize the right to speak'

“What we’re doing is recognizing that the right to speak and have your voice heard is extremely important,” he said. “If you’re out there committing violence, you’re damaging property, those cases are going to be prosecuted. If you’re a person who is out there demonstrating and you get caught up...

www.oregonlive.com

Capitol Hill Occupied Protest - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Aunt Antifa]

You made a claim, couldn't back it up, so now you're trying to weasel out of it.

Any other easy requests?

Looters, rioters not being prosecuted by circuit attorney, says attorney general; Kim Gardner responds

St. Louis police arrested 36 people during violent protests. All have been released without criminal charges

www.ksdk.com

Hundreds of Portland protesters will see their criminal cases dropped as DA announces plan to ‘recognize the right to speak'

“What we’re doing is recognizing that the right to speak and have your voice heard is extremely important,” he said. “If you’re out there committing violence, you’re damaging property, those cases are going to be prosecuted. If you’re a person who is out there demonstrating and you get caught up...

www.oregonlive.com

Capitol Hill Occupied Protest - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ghead. Your turn. Live by your own rules. Cite your examples verbatim. Don’t gimme none of that “well, these words can be construed this way and if you look at what resulted…” Nuh uh. You gotta cite words. You gotta cite words that directly correlate to action. And that action better live up to “systemic widespread nearly mainstreamed violence”.

Go…

Sorry, but you already failed by your own standards. Want to try again? There is nothing in your link describing any of the things you declared took place.

Show me quotes. Show me links. Show me proof that there was a systemic, widesspread violence that was nearly mainstreamed. *Still* dunno what that even means, and I suspect that makes both of us.

Or just *try* to say something snarky and walk away. #Walkaway!

 

[Common Sense 1]

I keep telling you the Civil War of 2021 started on January 6th and you still don't believe it.
When the second insurrection happens in 2022, will you believe it then?

Please move to the CT forum...... A truly kooky post!
There has not been an so called insurrection or a civil war and there won't be one!
300 + have been arrested and charged for the criminal behavior on Jan 6th. There
will be a price to pay for what happened that day.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

I don't think you understand it. Its just a shallow rationalization. It goes nowhere.

For instance, about the 1/6 insurrection. We can say that the president helped orchestra the overthrow of an elected government. That encouraged people to come to Washington on the day that the votes were certified. These people attacked the Capitol and Trump told them that he loved them. He expected his vice president to break the law and abdicate his constitutional duty by refusing the electoral votes. He told his supporters attacking the capitol that Pence had failed them. Before that, Trump has encouraged militias to liberate states. He encouraged his supporters to stop the steal.

We can say that many Republican legislators were perfectly willing to throw out millions of certified votes to make Trump president. That their denial of the insurrection sets up the possibility of another one in the future that could be successful. GOP state legislatures are passing such laws to allow that now.

Thus the GOP and Trump represent an existential threat to democracy.

And you respond with "but what about the riots last summer?"

And I say "what do you mean? What does that have to do with this?

And you say, in so many words, "I can't tell you." Because, well, you can't. It doesn't make any sense. its a vapid rationalization for a attempted coup.

a classic example of "whataboutism" - I mean I might not have bothered pointing that technique out to them in my OP as they clearly can't help themselves.
maybe I should have included "doing what everyone recognizes as a whataboutism anyways."

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Sorry, but you already failed by your own standards. Want to try again? There is nothing in your link describing any of the things you declared took place.

Show me quotes. Show me links. Show me proof that there was a systemic, widesspread violence that was nearly mainstreamed. *Still* dunno what that even means, and I suspect that makes both of us.

Or just *try* to say something snarky and walk away. #Walkaway!

I point out whataboutism in my OP, and sure enough, more links to stories about Portland protesters.
I have said it already on this thread, I don't have to say anything more, THEY provide all the evidence I need to prove my OP correct.