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Death Panels

Heebie Jeebie

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At any other point in someones life healthcare is a discussion-having session. Dr's talk to parents - they look at options and figure things out. Dr talks to patient and they together look at options and figure things out ... but when someone's older suddenly only the patient's opinion matters?

When you are talking about choosing to die then I think at least 99% of the decision should be the patients opinion.
 

Aunt Spiker

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When you are talking about choosing to die then I think at least 99% of the decision should be the patients opinion.

Choosing to die? It's not like they're being sentenced to the electric chair you know.

In most of these cases treatment leads to other complications which can hasten death - such as a hip replacement surgery leading to pnumonia leading to death. Or it's all just effort for nothing - the patient's body is unable to keep going no matter what.

Why?

Because that's how life goes - the older you get the less able your body is to recover, recoup, and fight off infections, respond to treatments and assimilate new organs.

So no - I don't believe that suddenly the Dr's role is reduced to nothing.

If we can't look to Dr's to continue to help people make the decisions that are best for them then why the **** do we have them? If several Drs conferred that the best thing for a patient is to make them comfortable in the end - which might still last for several years naturally - then why is that so bad?

It's not like we're euthanizing people, here.
 
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Heebie Jeebie

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Choosing to die? It's not like they're being sentenced to the electric chair you know.

In most of these cases treatment leads to other complications which can hasten death - such as a hip replacement surgery leading to pnumonia leading to death. Or it's all just effort for nothing - the patient's body is unable to keep going no matter what.

Why?

Because that's how life goes - the older you get the less able your body is to recover, recoup, and fight off infections, respond to treatments and assimilate new organs.

So no - I don't believe that suddenly the Dr's role is reduced to nothing.

If we can't look to Dr's to continue to help people make the decisions that are best for them then why the **** do we have them? If several Drs conferred that the best thing for a patient is to make them comfortable in the end - which might still last for several years naturally - then why is that so bad?

It's not like we're euthanizing people, here.

It sounds like you are talking about end of life, how is that not choosing to die?

We have doctors for a lot of things. Whether a person chooses to take their advice at any given time is not up to the Doctor, it's up to the patient.
 

Aunt Spiker

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It sounds like you are talking about end of life, how is that not choosing to die?

We have doctors for a lot of things. Whether a person chooses to take their advice at any given time is not up to the Doctor, it's up to the patient.

Whatever wording or reference makes you happy. . . it doesn't change anything. You support extreme measures and 'patient now knows what's best because they're older' to save me when I'm 98 - and I don't.

If they want to keep trudging along they should pay for it fully - and not on the taxpayer's dime.
 

Heebie Jeebie

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Whatever wording or reference makes you happy. . . it doesn't change anything. You support extreme measures and 'patient now knows what's best because they're older' to save me when I'm 98 - and I don't.

If they want to keep trudging along they should pay for it fully - and not on the taxpayer's dime.

I think YOU should be the major decision maker when it comes to it, not the doctors. That's all I'm saying.
 

mak2

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Doctors should not do a procedure if they dont think the patient will make some gain from it. Often patients dont understand that. It is the doctors job to properly educate the patients. For example, Rush came up with a story about a guy UHC would not fix his shoulder and cancelled his surgery. When the truth came out the guys surgery was indeed cancelled and it was cancelled by UHC doctors, but in truth it was because the guy was in his 80's and had pnuemonia. He would have never got off the vent. It would have been unetical to perform the surgery for medical reasons.
I think YOU should be the major decision maker when it comes to it, not the doctors. That's all I'm saying.
 

Heebie Jeebie

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Doctors should not do a procedure if they dont think the patient will make some gain from it. Often patients dont understand that. It is the doctors job to properly educate the patients. For example, Rush came up with a story about a guy UHC would not fix his shoulder and cancelled his surgery. When the truth came out the guys surgery was indeed cancelled and it was cancelled by UHC doctors, but in truth it was because the guy was in his 80's and had pnuemonia. He would have never got off the vent. It would have been unetical to perform the surgery for medical reasons.

So he died from pneumonia?
 

Heebie Jeebie

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I dont know. The problem is he would have died if they had performed the surgery.

But would he have died if he had the surgery after the pneumonia went away?
 

Aunt Spiker

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Doctors should not do a procedure if they dont think the patient will make some gain from it. Often patients dont understand that. It is the doctors job to properly educate the patients. For example, Rush came up with a story about a guy UHC would not fix his shoulder and cancelled his surgery. When the truth came out the guys surgery was indeed cancelled and it was cancelled by UHC doctors, but in truth it was because the guy was in his 80's and had pnuemonia. He would have never got off the vent. It would have been unetical to perform the surgery for medical reasons.

Apparently some people think it's the Dr's job to just do whatever they're told to do - no matter what.
 

mak2

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People have to be put on a breathing machine during surgery. People who are 80+ are hard to extubate, people with pnuemonia often cant be. Pneumonia is a containdication for surgery. And no, after the pneumonia went away he might have had the surgery.
But would he have died if he had the surgery after the pneumonia went away?
 

Heebie Jeebie

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People have to be put on a breathing machine during surgery. People who are 80+ are hard to extubate, people with pnuemonia often cant be. Pneumonia is a containdication for surgery. And no, after the pneumonia went away he might have had the surgery.

I understand that. My parents are in 80's and they have had several surgeries and both have been treated for cancer. There were times when they were sick with flu before a surgery was scheduled and the doctors just waited until they were better before they operated. Just because you get pneumonia and you are old doesn't mean you can't ever have surgery. It doesn't mean you should have every surgery you request either.
 

mak2

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Not when you have pneumonia. I didnt say you could not have surgery after the pneumonia cleared up.
I understand that. My parents are in 80's and they have had several surgeries and both have been treated for cancer. There were times when they were sick with flu before a surgery was scheduled and the doctors just waited until they were better before they operated. Just because you get pneumonia and you are old doesn't mean you can't ever have surgery. It doesn't mean you should have every surgery you request either.
 

Heebie Jeebie

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Not when you have pneumonia. I didnt say you could not have surgery after the pneumonia cleared up.

That seemed to have been what you were saying in your post about the guy who didn't get his surgery. Otherwise why would you bring it up?
 

mak2

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He did not get his surgery at that time due to having pneumonia. I did not say he should never have the surgery.
That seemed to have been what you were saying in your post about the guy who didn't get his surgery. Otherwise why would you bring it up?
 
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