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Death Panels

zimmer

Educating the Ignorant
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The mother of a friend of mine in Germany is waiting for treatment to extend her life and improve her suffering. It is being reviewed by the local authorities. It is the type of treatment that has life influencing consequences.

She is in her early 80's and has no recourse if they wave at her with their middle fingers. This from a faithful tax payer who surely expected more.

This is what awaits America and ObamaKare. The Death Panel. Palin was spot on... for Obama and the Obama Panels will be the decider. And this is just the beginning folks.

Hope you don't need to go begging to government because when they say go feck yerself... youz be feckt.
 
The mother of a friend of mine in Germany is waiting for treatment to extend her life and improve her suffering. It is being reviewed by the local authorities. It is the type of treatment that has life influencing consequences.

She is in her early 80's and has no recourse if they wave at her with their middle fingers. This from a faithful tax payer who surely expected more.

This is what awaits America and ObamaKare. The Death Panel. Palin was spot on... for Obama and the Obama Panels will be the decider. And this is just the beginning folks.

Hope you don't need to go begging to government because when they say go feck yerself... youz be feckt.

I know this is complicated for you, but...The United States is not Germany. They are really not much alike.
 
... A friend of mine once told me Obama ate a baby. I don't believe him though. Kenya's ethnic groups don't have a high incidence of cannibalism.
 
The mother of a friend of mine in Germany is waiting for treatment to extend her life and improve her suffering. It is being reviewed by the local authorities. It is the type of treatment that has life influencing consequences.
Life-INFLUENCING consequences? What could possibly fit inside that sort of a catch-all?

There are by the way no local authorities to whom one must apply to obtain health care in Germany.
 
Life-INFLUENCING consequences? What could possibly fit inside that sort of a catch-all?

There are by the way no local authorities to whom one must apply to obtain health care in Germany.

Yes, the OP has the stench of BS.
 
The mother of a friend of mine in Germany is waiting for treatment to extend her life and improve her suffering. It is being reviewed by the local authorities. It is the type of treatment that has life influencing consequences.

She is in her early 80's and has no recourse if they wave at her with their middle fingers. This from a faithful tax payer who surely expected more.

This is what awaits America and ObamaKare. The Death Panel. Palin was spot on... for Obama and the Obama Panels will be the decider. And this is just the beginning folks.

Hope you don't need to go begging to government because when they say go feck yerself... youz be feckt.
I was always under the impression that you conservative folks didn't want euthanasia to begin with--is there something wrong? :shrug:
 
Currently in the USA such decisions are made by insurance companies whose prime interest is in increased profits. If and when such decisions need to be made, insurance companies are the last ones who should decide.
 
Last time I heard this, when you drilled down to the real case with the facts the guy was 80 something, needed a should surgery, had pneumonia and the surgery was posponed due to the pnuemonia. The guy died. The surgery would have just made him die sooner with a lot more pain. The OP is consistant with right wing talking points.
 
The mother of a friend of mine in Germany is waiting for treatment to extend her life and improve her suffering. It is being reviewed by the local authorities. It is the type of treatment that has life influencing consequences.

She is in her early 80's and has no recourse if they wave at her with their middle fingers. This from a faithful tax payer who surely expected more.

This is what awaits America and ObamaKare. The Death Panel. Palin was spot on... for Obama and the Obama Panels will be the decider. And this is just the beginning folks.

Hope you don't need to go begging to government because when they say go feck yerself... youz be feckt.

In Germany, if the treatment has even the slightest chance of saving the persons life, it will be done. You would not believe how much is covered here. I'd like to know what procedure and what her condition is, because that it is more than likely an experimental procedure, which no insurance in the world would probably cover.

And secondly, Obamacare isn't even in the same universe as the German health care system.

Life-INFLUENCING consequences? What could possibly fit inside that sort of a catch-all?

There are by the way no local authorities to whom one must apply to obtain health care in Germany.

^^ This is fact. It is unbelievable how easy it is for me and my family to get excellent treatment for EVERYTHING here.
 
The OP's story is BS, as the German healthcare system is not funded by taxes. There is either standard insurance provided by employee and employer or separately purchasable private insurance. Treatment is not reviewed by "local authorities", coverage is determined by the specifics of a given insurance plan just like anywhere else. If you are going to make up a story, at least put some effort into not making glaring obviously mistakes.
 
We sure could use Death Panels. This idea of keeping 99 year olds alive by all means possible is bankrupting us. My Father, may he rest in peace, got a NEW pacemaker at age 98. Ridiculous, really.

Death Panels would have to be carefully assembled. Each patient should have an advocate and be able to submit testimony. I suspect there are many elderly that would be delighted to escape the burden of great age.

Yes, I know, this is not a popular concept. But that doesn't make it invalid.
 
Not only are death panels coming, but some here are championing them. Just a lovely country!
 
I am not sure why everyone makes such a fuss about death panels. We essentially have what your calling death panels now even with private insurance. Most insurance plans have caps or treatments they simply will not cover. I am actually unaware of any plan that will cover absolutely anything (such as experimental treatments). While there may be some that do those are probably not what your average american has. Besides I feel there is a point where that unless a person can pay for it themselves they should not be covered. If for example a person has a terminal illness and are on there last days or weeks of life with no hope of change we shouldn't be spending hundreds of thousands or millions on treatments that have next to null chance of helping unless they pay for it themselves. We should instead treat symptoms as best we can and leave them to except that life is almost over.
 
I am not sure why everyone makes such a fuss about death panels. We essentially have what your calling death panels now even with private insurance. Most insurance plans have caps or treatments they simply will not cover. I am actually unaware of any plan that will cover absolutely anything (such as experimental treatments). While there may be some that do those are probably not what your average american has. Besides I feel there is a point where that unless a person can pay for it themselves they should not be covered. If for example a person has a terminal illness and are on there last days or weeks of life with no hope of change we shouldn't be spending hundreds of thousands or millions on treatments that have next to null chance of helping unless they pay for it themselves. We should instead treat symptoms as best we can and leave them to except that life is almost over.

Wrong, third parties should NEVER be in charge of health care decisions. The obvious point you miss yet reinforce in your post is, "we" shouldn't be paying for any of it, patients should be paying. We do not have a health care crisis in America, we have a health care **cost** crisis. Costs are rising out of control due to third party intervention in what should be a two party transaction. In fact if you go one step further, our entire "health care delivery" system is out of phase in America. Collectively, we engage in every "unhealthy" action then think we can take our bodies to a doctor, get some drugs, then go back to the same unhealthy acts dictating the visit in the first place. We should NEVER treat symptoms. We should adequately address the cause of the "dis" ease.
 
I know this is complicated for you, but...The United States is not Germany. They are really not much alike.

We are on the way towards the Socialist system with ObamaKare.
There is tons of evidence supporting what I claimed (see below for the tip of crap mountain)... and for my friend and his family... they await the reply from The Panel.

Government programs and control of such massive systems fail miserably.

"RATIONING"... means someone must decide who gets what. It means healthcare in this grand Socialist Duchy isn't a "right".

Interview: Prof. Dr. Jörg-Dietrich Hoppe
The German Health-Care System: ‘Make the Secret Rationing Public!’

Zepp-LaRouche: In your view, how can the health-care system be reformed, so as to return to the Solidarity principle of Bismarck’s original social security?


Hoppe: I believe we will retain a system financed by fees, which, how-ever will increasingly be funded by tax revenues, so that also the portion of the German population that has private health insurance will be helping to finance the 
statutory health insurance.

Zepp-LaRouche: There is enormous anger in the population  about  the  collapse  of  health  care. And many people fear for their lives, if they can no longer obtain the best medical care. In Holland, some of the elderly and sick are being killed without their consent, if they are over a certain age.

Zepp-LaRouche: Don’t you mean that if non-medi-cal managers ultimately decide what the doctors in these 
medical centers do
...?

Hoppe: Yes, it certainly does. And that is just what we are complaining about, which the others are denying; but de facto, it is the case.


http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...chepub.com/eiw/public/2009/.../33-37_3622.pdf

Google "german rationed health care" and then you naysayers get back to me about what I purportedly made up.

I'll keep you abreast as to whether my friend's family's begging for medical care was successful.
 
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We are on the way towards the Socialist system with ObamaKare.
There is tons of evidence supporting what I claimed (see below for the tip of crap mountain)... and for my friend and his family... they await the reply from The Panel.

Government programs and control of such massive systems fail miserably.

"RATIONING"... means someone must decide who gets what. It means healthcare in this grand Socialist Duchy isn't a "right".



Google "german rationed health care" and then you naysayers get back to me about what I purportedly made up.

I'll keep you abreast as to whether my friend's family's begging for medical care was successful.

Just because you can google something doesn't make it true at all.

Just for fun I googled "Zimmer is ****ing crazy" and the first link I got was this: ****in Zimmer is a mad crazy pimp who will NOT button his collar. Photos from Kevin Streckewald (STRECK) on Myspace

Hey button your collar you mad crazy pimp, that **** aint cool.
 
We are on the way towards the Socialist system with ObamaKare.
The US has a partially socialist healthcare system already. The current changes are changes (albeit significant ones), not an entirely new system. A system being socialist doesn't automatically make it bad.

"RATIONING"... means someone must decide who gets what. It means healthcare in this grand Socialist Duchy isn't a "right".
Every healthcare system in the world has some form of "rationing", including the US. It's impossible to avoid since the demand is so much higher than the resources we're willing and able to commit. I do think that on general principal, such decisions should be made on the basis of medical need rather than who has the most money.

I'll keep you abreast as to whether my friend's family's begging for medical care was successful.
It's a rather meaningless example without much more detail. More detail that you should really be putting on a public forum about someone else's personal circumstances to be honest but at least you could identify the "authorities" you say they're having issues with since, like others here, your interpretation of the situation doesn't fit my understanding of the German healthcare process.
 
LOL! The freaking article is from the so-called Executive Intelligence Review, a mouthpiece rag of the certified whacko Lyndon LaRouche. Zimmer owes people an apology.
 
OP is straight-up making up this story. This isn't how the German healthcare system works.
 
Not only are death panels coming, but some here are championing them. Just a lovely country!

No they aren't. People lied to you. Doesn't that upset you?
 
I heard somewhere that if you cut out all "end-of-life" procedures, procedures done 6 months or less before death, the system would save a tremendous amount of money. It's a valid question to ask ourselves just how much money we spend to extend someone's life for a few months. The more we attach individual responsibilty to these changes, the more efficiency we gain in the system. In other words, if medicare were privatized and it was your own money at stake, you might opt out of end-of-life procedures and instead pass on your existing portfolio to your family. I consider that just as moral as spending every last dime of someone else's money on procedures with very little long-term gain. That almost seems selfish does it not?
 
LOL! The freaking article is from the so-called Executive Intelligence Review, a mouthpiece rag of the certified whacko Lyndon LaRouche. Zimmer owes people an apology.

So, Zimmer not only lied about this; he also based his lies on Lyndon LaRouche. Typical!
 
Currently in the USA such decisions are made by insurance companies whose prime interest is in increased profits. If and when such decisions need to be made, insurance companies are the last ones who should decide.

Perhaps some decisions are made by insurance companies, but the majority are made by doctors. Insurance conpanies, unlike the bottomless pit which is Medicare, are supposed to make money. It's the only way they can operate. Trying to make them into villains will only work with stupid people. Smart people realize that giving a 105-year-old man a liver transplant may not make sense.
 
Perhaps some decisions are made by insurance companies, but the majority are made by doctors. Insurance conpanies, unlike the bottomless pit which is Medicare, are supposed to make money. It's the only way they can operate. Trying to make them into villains will only work with stupid people. Smart people realize that giving a 105-year-old man a liver transplant may not make sense.

Which still leaves the so-called death panel in the hands of private, for-profit businesses instead of the government.

And really, more decisions are made by the insurance company than you think. Especially when it comes to major procedures. Virtually any transplant, major surgery, or long-term cancer treatment needs to be pre-approved by the insurance company. (and they sometimes deny the claim afterwards anyway)
 
Which still leaves the so-called death panel in the hands of private, for-profit businesses instead of the government.

And really, more decisions are made by the insurance company than you think. Especially when it comes to major procedures. Virtually any transplant, major surgery, or long-term cancer treatment needs to be pre-approved by the insurance company. (and they sometimes deny the claim afterwards anyway)

Transplants most assuredly need preapproval. Experimental treatment needs pre-approval. Expensive treatmenet that hasn't yet proven itself often needs preapproval. No surprises there. Long-term cancer treatment? No, I do not believe you. For that assertion, I'd need to see a link. Also, once an insurance company has pre-approved a treatment they absolutely cannot deny payment unless they find errors in fact; which, again, makes perfect sense.

You seem to think you are entitled to demand whatever medical care you so desire. If you're paying for it? Fine. If you're not? And most people aren't. You have to abide by good medical practice guidelines just like everyone else.

There are no freakin' death panels. Talk about pejorative language...
 
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