• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Death from Complications of ?

VySky

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 12, 2019
Messages
3,130
Reaction score
886
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
That’s what we used to call it. Someone who has diabetes yet dies of Artery disease died due to complications from Diabetes. Other examples of co-morbidities exist as well

We know that Covid goes after those with existing medical conditions. When someone who has diabetes dies and has Covid, why is the death not classified as a ‘complication’ from Diabetes instead of shouting from the rooftops they died of Covid?
 

Allan

Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
3,130
Reaction score
2,811
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
That’s what we used to call it. Someone who has diabetes yet dies of Artery disease died due to complications from Diabetes. Other examples of co-morbidities exist as well

We know that Covid goes after those with existing medical conditions. When someone who has diabetes dies and has Covid, why is the death not classified as a ‘complication’ from Diabetes instead of shouting from the rooftops they died of Covid?
Covid is not a complication of Diabetes. It's a communicable disease. The diabetic would otherwise have been alive if they had not contracted Covid.
 

VySky

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 12, 2019
Messages
3,130
Reaction score
886
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Covid is not a complication of Diabetes. It's a communicable disease. The diabetic would otherwise have been alive if they had not contracted Covid.
But they contracted it because of being diabetic
 

screenwriter

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
800
Reaction score
133
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
Covid is not a complication of Diabetes. It's a communicable disease. The diabetic would otherwise have been alive if they had not contracted Covid.
Diabetics without Covid die every single day - you're assumption they "would still be alive" is based on what theory? The answer to the question being posed as to why a person with both Covid and Diabetes is listed as dying of Covid rather than diabetes is the fact the government is giving payments to facilities for Covid cases and not diabetes cases. Follow the money.
 

tacomancer

Christian Capitalist Social Democrat
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
42,434
Reaction score
23,015
Location
Akron
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
That’s what we used to call it. Someone who has diabetes yet dies of Artery disease died due to complications from Diabetes. Other examples of co-morbidities exist as well

We know that Covid goes after those with existing medical conditions. When someone who has diabetes dies and has Covid, why is the death not classified as a ‘complication’ from Diabetes instead of shouting from the rooftops they died of Covid?
This is like saying someone with untreatable cancer who got shot in the heart died because of cancer.
 

Allan

Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
3,130
Reaction score
2,811
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Diabetics without Covid die every single day - you're assumption they "would still be alive" is based on what theory?
Based on the theory they'd still be alive if they hadn't contracted Covid. A person with properly managed diabetes can live a relatively long lifespan.

The answer to the question being posed as to why a person with both Covid and Diabetes is listed as dying of Covid rather than diabetes is the fact the government is giving payments to facilities for Covid cases and not diabetes cases. Follow the money.
A person dying from Covid usually succumbs due to lung failure. Diabetes didn't cause the lung failure, Covid did. It's a bit like a diabetic dying from a heart attack. The diabetes may have made their heart disease worse, but they didn't die of diabetes, the cause of death is cardiac arrest.
 

VySky

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 12, 2019
Messages
3,130
Reaction score
886
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
No, they contracted it via droplet or or surface contact with the virus. Contracting it
No, they contracted it via droplet or or surface contact with the virus. Contracting it was irrelevant to the fact they had diabetes.
Not true. Majority of deaths the patients had
A person dying from Covid usually succumbs due to lung failure. Diabetes didn't cause the lung failure, Covid did. It's a bit like a diabetic dying from a heart attack. The diabetes may have made their heart disease worse, but they didn't die of diabetes, the cause of death is cardiac arrest.
That they classified previously as dying due to complications of diabetes
 

Allan

Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
3,130
Reaction score
2,811
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
That they classified previously as dying due to complications of diabetes
No, they were classified by the actual specific cause of death. In the case of diabetics it's primarily heart disease, stroke, and kidney failure. When the death certificate is filled out it will list the cause of death as the event/failure that actually killed them.
 

Allan

Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
3,130
Reaction score
2,811
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
A good comparison would be antibiotic resistant TB. It's also communicable and a person with comorbidities is more at risk. Those are people with diabetes, obesity, older, smoking etc. Their cause of death would be TB due to the damage it does to the lungs (similar to Covid), not the comorbidity. A person dying of TB didn't die because they were obese, they died because their lungs failed.
 

Serenity

Stay Human
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
28,959
Reaction score
25,949
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
No, they contracted it via droplet or or surface contact with the virus. Contracting it was irrelevant to the fact they had diabetes.
It's beyond sad that you had to explain that considering we are over 12 months into a world wide pandemic that has had devastating consequences, the likes of which we have never seen before.
 

Allan

Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
3,130
Reaction score
2,811
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
It's beyond sad that you had to explain that considering we are over 12 months into a world wide pandemic that has had devastating consequences, the likes of which we have never seen before.
I really don't understand the point of trying to muddy this issue. Cause of death determinations haven't much changed for hundreds of years, but suddenly conspiracy theorists are medical experts :rolleyes:
 

bluesmoke

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
13,551
Reaction score
3,979
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The RW again attempts to over-talk science and the medical world with delusional denial of irrefutable medical fact by using illogical reasoning that makes as much sense as insisting the letter 'z' comes first in the order of the alphabet.
 

Taylor

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
15,247
Reaction score
5,983
Location
US
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
No, they were classified by the actual specific cause of death. In the case of diabetics it's primarily heart disease, stroke, and kidney failure. When the death certificate is filled out it will list the cause of death as the event/failure that actually killed them.
No, it should include both (or more) as suggested in the OP.
 

Allan

Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
3,130
Reaction score
2,811
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
No, it should include both as suggested in the OP.
He didn't suggest they include both. He suggested " why is the death not classified as a ‘complication’ from Diabetes instead of shouting from the rooftops they died of Covid? "

They died of Covid, period. Usually lung failure, sometimes with Diabetes as a factor, sometimes not.
 

Taylor

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
15,247
Reaction score
5,983
Location
US
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
He didn't suggest they include both. He suggested " why is the death not classified as a ‘complication’ from Diabetes instead of shouting from the rooftops they died of Covid? "

They died of Covid, period. Usually lung failure, sometimes with Diabetes as a factor, sometimes not.
No, it's not "the died of Covid, period" - if that were the case, then HIV/AIDS would be a nonfatal disease.
 

year2late

IIJAFM
DP Veteran
Joined
May 12, 2013
Messages
22,800
Reaction score
20,187
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
That’s what we used to call it. Someone who has diabetes yet dies of Artery disease died due to complications from Diabetes. Other examples of co-morbidities exist as well

We know that Covid goes after those with existing medical conditions. When someone who has diabetes dies and has Covid, why is the death not classified as a ‘complication’ from Diabetes instead of shouting from the rooftops they died of Covid?
Would the patient have died at that time if it were not for Covid? A person with diabetes can live many decades after diagnosis. A person with coronary artery disease can live decades after diagnosis.

Those things will be listed as contributing factors.
 

Allan

Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
3,130
Reaction score
2,811
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
No, it's not "the died of Covid, period"
Here's how you know I'm right - all over the world reports on deaths from medical officials are listing Covid as cause of death. Without exception this is happening. The only people not doing that are a) not medical experts/practitioners and b) nuttier than a jar of Planters.

- if that were the case, then HIV/AIDS would be a nonfatal disease.
This makes so little sense I don't even know how to respond to it.
 

Crakhobarbie

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 29, 2020
Messages
1,126
Reaction score
537
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
That’s what we used to call it. Someone who has diabetes yet dies of Artery disease died due to complications from Diabetes. Other examples of co-morbidities exist as well

We know that Covid goes after those with existing medical conditions. When someone who has diabetes dies and has Covid, why is the death not classified as a ‘complication’ from Diabetes instead of shouting from the rooftops they died of Covid?
Because without the addition of covid, there would of been no death.
 

Taylor

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
15,247
Reaction score
5,983
Location
US
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Here's how you know I'm right - all over the world reports on deaths from medical officials are listing Covid as cause of death. Without exception this is happening. The only people not doing that are a) not medical experts/practitioners and b) nuttier than a jar of Planters.


This makes so little sense I don't even know how to respond to it.
Sorry you're so confused.
 

Taylor

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
15,247
Reaction score
5,983
Location
US
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Would the patient have died at that time if it were not for Covid? A person with diabetes can live many decades after diagnosis. A person with coronary artery disease can live decades after diagnosis.

Those things will be listed as contributing factors.
Yep. They will list many factors under cause of death. It's not "they died of Covid, period," which would run counter to the standard of practice.
 
Top Bottom