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Deadly violence continues to sweep Iraq

TheDemSocialist

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At least 58 people are dead and more than 150 injured in a series of attacks across Iraq over the past 48 hours. The bombers targeted shopping areas filled with people eating at the end of the daily Ramadan fast. Al Jazeera's Jane Arraf reports from Baghdad.


Video @: Deadly violence continues to sweep Iraq - YouTube

Another day in "liberated" Iraq. 58 people dead and more than 150 injured in unstable and violent Iraq. Something to be real "proud" of my countrymen (USA).


 

ecofarm

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Beats 10k dead by chemical weapon genocide. Saddam probably killed 50 just in rape palaces on a slow day.
 

spud_meister

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That Saddam was such a nice guy, it's a shame they got rid of him.
 

TheDemSocialist

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So by overthrowing Saddam who did not threaten our country and was not a threat to our country justify us invading him overthrowing him and opening up an unstable state that slipped into a civil war and has a terrorist attack or two a day? If so just because he wasnt a "nice guy" then man we better start overthrowing a lot of other "not nice guys".
 

sawyerloggingon

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So by overthrowing Saddam who did not threaten our country and was not a threat to our country justify us invading him overthrowing him and opening up an unstable state that slipped into a civil war and has a terrorist attack or two a day? If so just because he wasnt a "nice guy" then man we better start overthrowing a lot of other "not nice guys".
Saddam broke a treaty with us and fired on our planes which were enforcing the no fly zone Saddam had agreed to, that was an act of war on his part.
 

Higgins86

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So by overthrowing Saddam who did not threaten our country and was not a threat to our country justify us invading him overthrowing him and opening up an unstable state that slipped into a civil war and has a terrorist attack or two a day? If so just because he wasnt a "nice guy" then man we better start overthrowing a lot of other "not nice guys".
Saddam was overthrown because he invaded a neighbouring country, used chemical weapons and then spent a decade breaking UN law. What have we done for Iraq honestly I couldn't tell you and hopefully in 10-20 years time they are a flourishing country. When I served a tour in Basra conditions were bad but getting better and the people seemed happy enough we were there but now I'm sure they would probably say something different. It makes me sad personally because I met so many nice people in Basra who were just trying to get by and it saddens me that their life's have not improved, were we wrong to get rid of Saddam no we were not however the occupation and withdrawal could of been handled so much better.
 

Hatuey

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Saddam broke a treaty with us and fired on our planes which were enforcing the no fly zone Saddam had agreed to, that was an act of war on his part.
I take it you won't be supporting Colorado's new permits to shoot down US Drones?
 

TheDemSocialist

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Saddam broke a treaty with us and fired on our planes which were enforcing the no fly zone Saddam had agreed to, that was an act of war on his part.
Yea through an illegal act under a resolution that made no references to "no fly zones"...
 

TheDemSocialist

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Saddam was overthrown because he invaded a neighbouring country, used chemical weapons and then spent a decade breaking UN law.
All which happened in the 80's and 90's and he dismantled his arms then... Does not justify overthrowing him in the 2000's..
 

Higgins86

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All which happened in the 80's and 90's and he dismantled his arms then... Does not justify overthrowing him in the 2000's..
well Operation desert fox was late 90's ( just a few years before the Iraq war) and at that point Iraq was still actively trying to make WMD'S. Personally I think the Iraq war was coming anyway but 9/11 postponed it by a couple of years.
 

TheDemSocialist

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MarineTpartier

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Saddam was overthrown because he invaded a neighbouring country, used chemical weapons and then spent a decade breaking UN law. What have we done for Iraq honestly I couldn't tell you and hopefully in 10-20 years time they are a flourishing country. When I served a tour in Basra conditions were bad but getting better and the people seemed happy enough we were there but now I'm sure they would probably say something different. It makes me sad personally because I met so many nice people in Basra who were just trying to get by and it saddens me that their life's have not improved, were we wrong to get rid of Saddam no we were not however the occupation and withdrawal could of been handled so much better.
I spent a lot of time in Iraq my friend (Sadr City, Fallujah, Baqubah, Mosul, etc) and I can tell you this. Almost ALL of those good people you speak of that are just trying to get by would be the first to burn an American flag, stomp on a body of a fallen comrade, or follow whoever the loudest anti-American jihadist with a bull horn is. I would say 9 out of 10 are two faced or have an agenda. That is why that nation and one's like it will not make it. Everyone is out for themselves. There is no sense of community or loyalty there. And I'm not talking loyalty to us. I'm talking to their fellow countrymen. We need to allow all of these struggling Arab nations to simply vet themselves out, see who rises to the top, and then decide whether we want to deal with them or not. If we continue to meddle, the true leaders of their country's will never be revealed.
 

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MarineTpartier

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Video @: Deadly violence continues to sweep Iraq - YouTube

Another day in "liberated" Iraq. 58 people dead and more than 150 injured in unstable and violent Iraq. Something to be real "proud" of my countrymen (USA).
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Another anti-Iraq thread. Give it a rest man. We got it. Iraq was a mistake. We all know it, we all have acknowledged it, let's move on. How about a thread about why we shouldn't go into Syria?
 

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I spent a lot of time in Iraq my friend (Sadr City, Fallujah, Baqubah, Mosul, etc) and I can tell you this. Almost ALL of those good people you speak of that are just trying to get by would be the first to burn an American flag, stomp on a body of a fallen comrade, or follow whoever the loudest anti-American jihadist with a bull horn is. I would say 9 out of 10 are two faced or have an agenda. That is why that nation and one's like it will not make it. Everyone is out for themselves. There is no sense of community or loyalty there. And I'm not talking loyalty to us. I'm talking to their fellow countrymen. We need to allow all of these struggling Arab nations to simply vet themselves out, see who rises to the top, and then decide whether we want to deal with them or not. If we continue to meddle, the true leaders of their country's will never be revealed.

No offense but a lot was said about how we held Basra compared to American occupations around the country. We were lucky enough to have officers who had experienced Northern Ireland during the troubles and knew how to handle that kind of situation. From my limited time in Baghdad and watching the Americans operate in Basra I thought that you reaped what you sowed, your commanders did not seem to know how to handle a hostile occupation in the correct manner.
 

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No offense but a lot was said about how we held Basra compared to American occupations around the country. We were lucky enough to have officers who had experienced Northern Ireland during the troubles and knew how to handle that kind of situation. From my limited time in Baghdad and watching the Americans operate in Basra I thought that you reaped what you sowed, your commanders did not seem to know how to handle a hostile occupation in the correct manner.
I agree with you there. You guys are much more versed in COIN than we are. I would say we (US Marines) are better at it than our Army brethren are. I operated with Marines and Army my last tour in Iraq and the Army simply doesn't know how to get out of their armored vehicles and engage people (verbally engage lol). The Army has become so dependent upon supporting arms (air, arty, etc) that they don't know how to deal with a problem that can't be solved by overwhelming firepower. Marines do get a little aggressive with the populus as well though. They just do it on a face to face basis vice a bomb to face basis as the Army does. Either way, you're screwing it up when you get overly aggressive with the people you're trying to win over.
 

TheDemSocialist

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and Neville Chamberlain thought that he had secured peace in Europe and Hitler would not invade anymore countries, politicians talk tripe all day long! They are told what they need to know.
Direct intelligence on a countries weapon capabilities and Nazi Germany's intentions to invade and continue expanding their territory are two different scenarios.
 

TheDemSocialist

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Another anti-Iraq thread. Give it a rest man. We got it. Iraq was a mistake. We all know it, we all have acknowledged it, let's move on. How about a thread about why we shouldn't go into Syria?
Already have many times.
 

Higgins86

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I agree with you there. You guys are much more versed in COIN than we are. I would say we (US Marines) are better at it than our Army brethren are. I operated with Marines and Army my last tour in Iraq and the Army simply doesn't know how to get out of their armored vehicles and engage people (verbally engage lol). The Army has become so dependent upon supporting arms (air, arty, etc) that they don't know how to deal with a problem that can't be solved by overwhelming firepower. Marines do get a little aggressive with the populus as well though. They just do it on a face to face basis vice a bomb to face basis as the Army does. Either way, you're screwing it up when you get overly aggressive with the people you're trying to win over.
US Marines are just so professional in most aspects of their job and was always a pleasure to watch them operate. The US army however....;)

But yeh that was always my problem with the US in Iraq your whole military is geared towards invading and " shock and awe" and your the best in the business, but when a lighter touch was needed it seemed harder for them to adjust. Not really the fault of the lads on the ground as they are only as good as their orders but I though the US high command really dropped the ball for the years after the invasion. Then again the US military had never really experienced those kind of conditions before so hopefully they learned that lesson for future wars.
 

MarineTpartier

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US Marines are just so professional in most aspects of their job and was always a pleasure to watch them operate. The US army however....;)
Lol! We aren't perfect by any stretch. But our Army is garbage. Hate to say it that bluntly because they have some good units (SF, Rangers, etc).
But yeh that was always my problem with the US in Iraq your whole military is geared towards invading and " shock and awe" and your the best in the business, but when a lighter touch was needed it seemed harder for them to adjust. Not really the fault of the lads on the ground as they are only as good as their orders but I though the US high command really dropped the ball for the years after the invasion. Then again the US military had never really experienced those kind of conditions before so hopefully they learned that lesson for future wars.
Definitely. Our entire doctrine is all about knocking the door down and getting in the room. We just don't know what to do once we're in the room. I think the biggest failure on our part was at the battalion level. A lot of battalion commanders worry more about applying conventional doctrine to an unconventional environment. For example, the mindset was that there always had to be a "reserve force" when units were assigned positions in the battalions area of operations. Reserve force for what? At no time in Iraq do I remember a unit being overrun at a patrol base or larger. Also, we are so rigid in standards (like shaving in Afghanistan) that we lost those tiny advantages we could've had simply by being a little more flexible. We did a lot wrong over there for sure.
 

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All which happened in the 80's and 90's and he dismantled his arms then... Does not justify overthrowing him in the 2000's..
For me this whole nation building doctrine has seen its last days. For me, I personally sign on to the bomb as much as we can afford, kill as many bad guys as possible, and live with the consequences of missing our targets once in a while. Let them clean up their own mess is the doctrine we should be living by. I suspect a lot less attacks on US citizens if we employed this approach more often.


Tim-
 

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Democracy isn't pretty, however I personally think it morally out weighs a dictatorship. 1776 wasn't so long ago. Time will tell where Iraq will be in a hundred years.
 

Morrigi

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Democracy isn't pretty, however I personally think it morally out weighs a dictatorship. 1776 wasn't so long ago. Time will tell where Iraq will be in a hundred years.
At this rate it just might be more free than what the United States will be.
 
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