Daniel Penny is a hero

[Michael Cole]

We already have a society where jerks like Neely can push innocents onto subway tracks, so arguing "what happens if X goes on" is a naive fantasy.

Letterman pushed Mr. Bill off the Empire State Building. What a jerk. (He should have asked Steve Martin to do it.)

A society with subway tracks. And innocents. What have we become.

 

[Cardinal]

Neely broke an old woman's orbital bone in a past encounter.

Would you want to be killed for past encounters? Obviously not.

That could have been fatal, just as a number of unarmed assaults can be.

What could have been fatal? Chucking garbage at people?

The article still does not state that "deadly force" is defined only by firearms, but kid yourself if you please.

The point is that the use of deadly force is legally required to be proportionate. Is throwing garbage at people proportionate to a death sentence?

You can afford to claim that the threat had been eliminated, since you weren't there. That determination isn't so easy for someone struggling with an assailant.

The video does actually make that quite easy to say.

 

[Ouroboros]

[citation needed]

Try reading the news.

 

[Cardinal]

Any fatal miscalculations on the part of the defender are the fault of the man who started the quarrel. Penny's going free, and Mad Libs will rage like they did after Rittenhouse was declared innocent.

You want to make a bet on that, or do you want to start making your victim complex arguments now?

 

[Cardinal]

Try reading the news.

Support the notion that society is okay with pushing people onto subway tracks or admit you were lying.

 

[Ouroboros]

Would you want to be killed for past encounters? Obviously not.

Neely provoked the violence and declared he was willing to go to jail. He hadn't changed much.

What could have been fatal? Chucking garbage at people?

People have been killed by fists alone and you probably know it, but are feigning ignorance in the delusion that you win points or something.

The point is that the use of deadly force is legally required to be proportionate. Is throwing garbage at people proportionate to a death sentence?

See above.

The video does actually make that quite easy to say.

For someone with a pre-determined viewpoint.

 

[Ouroboros]

You want to make a bet on that, or do you want to start making your victim complex arguments now?

The victim complex arguments are all coming from the Left on this matter. Poor, pitiful Neely, with his relations mourning him, the relations who didn't exactly rush to take him in. Why not, one wonders...

 

[Ouroboros]

Support the notion that society is okay with pushing people onto subway tracks or admit you were lying.

Not all society; just Lefties, who happen to control the political machine in New York State. Fortunately they can't quickly rewrite New York law.

 

[Cardinal]

Not all society; just Lefties, who happen to control the political machine in New York State. Fortunately they can't quickly rewrite New York law.

Oh brother. All your posts are is an amygdala with a keyboard.

 

[Ouroboros]

I would have been frightened too, but that doesn't mean that death is a proportionate response, especially since any perceived threat had been dealt with.

More Monday morning quarterbacking.

 

[Cardinal]

More Monday morning quarterbacking.

Which is a cute response, but it doesn't address the central point: was Neely a threat 50 seconds after his body had gone limp? Because that is the legal point Penny is going to have to address during his trial. His lawyer won't be able to make that question disappear.

 

[Ouroboros]

Oh brother. All your posts are is an amygdala with a keyboard.

Another of your persistent delusions, like the one about the citation defining firearms alone as constituting deadly force.

I didn't say, BTW, that society favored people pushing others onto train tracks, which was your straw man. I stated that we had a society that's already allowed conditions to persist in which "jerks like Neely can push innocents onto subway tracks," as against your fantasy that we just can't allow for any defensive action that might go over a Progressive's highly partisan idea of proportionate force.

 

[Ouroboros]

Which is a cute response, but it doesn't address the central point: was Neely a threat 50 seconds after his body had gone limp? Because that is the legal point Penny is going to have to address during his trial. His lawyer won't be able to make that question disappear.

His lawyer will probably make the same argument Mr Nice Guy did, if you'd like to review.

 

[Lursa]

They want to make Alpha males extinct.

Stupid males arent alphas. This male was scared, if he's to be believed.

The rest of the New Yorkers observed. Some left the car, the rest could have if they had been sufficiently alarmed. So could Penny have...doors on either end.

People like Neely are unfortunately, common in NYC, including the subways. New Yorkers are used to it, sadly. I used to commute on the NYC subway...nothing new except someone killed somebody instead of just giving them space.

 

[Cardinal]

Another of your persistent delusions, like the one about the citation defining firearms alone as constituting deadly force.

I didn't say, BTW, that society favored people pushing others onto train tracks, which was your straw man. I stated that we had a society that's already allowed conditions to persist in which "jerks like Neely can push innocents onto subway tracks," as against your fantasy that we just can't allow for any defensive action that might go over a Progressive's highly partisan idea of proportionate force.

Except that Neely didn't push anybody onto a train track, which only emphasizes that what Neely did do wasn't so bad.

 

[Cardinal]

His lawyer will probably make the same argument Mr Nice Guy did, if you'd like to review.

Mr Nice Guy's arguments were at least as bad as yours.

 

[Lursa]

Would you want to be killed for past encounters? Obviously not.

How can prior actions matter here? Penny knew of none of it.

 

[Ouroboros]

Except that Neely didn't push anybody onto a train track, which only emphasizes that what Neely did do wasn't so bad.

Nope, but he was free to attack the sixty-year old woman that was on board at that specific time and place, the same way he was found guilty of shattering another old woman's orbital bone-- which, as I said, could have been fatal.

You Libs really cannot move yourself to care about anyone being attacked unless they check your boxes, I guess.

 

[Cardinal]

How can prior actions matter here? Penny knew of none of it.

It's a fun logical exercise, because what if it's found that there are bad things about Penny's past? Is that sufficient to justify his imprisonment?

 

[Ouroboros]

Mr Nice Guy's arguments were at least as bad as yours.

Keep telling yourself that. Maybe you can imagine into existence a witness on the train who will prove hostile to Penny's deed.

 

[Cardinal]

Nope, but he was free to attack the sixty-year old woman that was on board at that specific time and place,

But did he?

the same way he was found guilty of shattering another old woman's orbital bone-- which, as I said, could have been fatal.

You Libs really cannot move yourself to care about anyone being attacked unless they check your boxes, I guess.

 

[Cardinal]

Keep telling yourself that. Maybe you can imagine into existence a witness on the train who will prove hostile to Penny's deed.

What testimony do you imagine will exonerate Penny?

 

[Lursa]

What law do you imagine will be rewritten to suit my agenda? Be specific.

In other threads, I've posted NY state law showing there's no "SYG" law and people have a duty to retreat.

Someone else posted one that was more specific to this incident and there's still a duty to retreat unless they perceive an imminent threat...to which they can only use proportional force. I forget who that was.

It all comes down to what a 'reasonable person' would accept on a jury, for that perception. And there are many witnesses to provide that perspective.

 

[Lursa]

Which is a cute response, but it doesn't address the central point: was Neely a threat 50 seconds after his body had gone limp? Because that is the legal point Penny is going to have to address during his trial. His lawyer won't be able to make that question disappear.

And he had help restraining him at that point. 3 guys couldnt hold down a homeless guy without cutting off his air supply? Using the choke hold?

If the Marine was trained in the maneuver, he applied it improperly (not supposed to result in dead people.)

If he wasnt trained in the maneuver, and he didnt live in a cave, even overseas, he wouldnt have missed the Floyd case and others, and that the maneuver is being restricted...he knew it was dangerous and he acted with gross negligence.

 

[Ouroboros]

But did he?

You claimed that "what Neely did do wasn't so bad." You have zero knowledge that he would not have acted in just as bad a manner as in the previous incident, had he not been restrained in a timely fashion.

The press brainwashed many people, possibly including you, as to Neely being a harmless "Michael Jackson impersonator." But despite their BS, there are strong indications that Neely gave up the Jackson gig long ago and just became a mean guy.

Try to stay away from the Michael Jackson impersonator if you see him...

Used to be all cool, dancing to MJ in the subway train, but as of late he's become a maniac.

Sometime in late Spring/early Summer I saw him in the train, his radio ****ed up and he was angry as ****, cursing and bad mouthing commuters screaming "What the **** are you looking at? Dont ****ing look at me!" Totally didn't expect him to act as such.

Ever since that day he's just been a scary dude to me. He doesn't dress up anymore. No more dancing...just asks for money. Occasionally shouting obscenities.

Did a 2013 Reddit Post Warn About Subway Chokehold Victim Jordan Neely?

"Used to be all cool, dancing to MJ in the subway train, but as of late he's become a maniac," a Redditor posted.

www.snopes.com

Snopes rated the ID of this unnamed individual with Neely as "true."