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damned socialist president!

This argument that Obama is a socialist is coming from the extreme right wing. (*cough* tea party morons) Clearly it is working with the American electorate with the republicans electing wacky tea party libertarians in primaries. America is going down the tubes.. both economically and mentally.
 
This argument that Obama is a socialist is coming from the extreme right wing. (*cough* tea party morons) Clearly it is working with the American electorate with the republicans electing wacky tea party libertarians in primaries. America is going down the tubes.. both economically and mentally.

when i see people call the TP members extreme right wing my BS detector redlines

tell me what do you term extreme right wing

ending irresponsible spending by the government

putting an end to 400 dollar toilet seats for military bases?

stopping the ever increasing number of government employees

stopping the idiotic tax increases while less and less people pay taxes

sounds pretty mainstream to me
 
when i see people call the TP members extreme right wing my BS detector redlines

tell me what do you term extreme right wing

ending irresponsible spending by the government

putting an end to 400 dollar toilet seats for military bases?

stopping the ever increasing number of government employees

stopping the idiotic tax increases while less and less people pay taxes

sounds pretty mainstream to me

bleh.. you believe Obama is a socialist? 0.o
 
bleh.. you believe Obama is a socialist? 0.o

he believes in income redistribution to gain power and class warfare

he does adopt some tenets of socialism

but mainly he is an inexperienced nobody who has no business being president

you cannot be a dem and not agree with some planks of the socialist philosophy but is he a pure socialist-nope
 
he believes in income redistribution to gain power and class warfare

he does adopt some tenets of socialism

but mainly he is an inexperienced nobody who has no business being president

you cannot be a dem and not agree with some planks of the socialist philosophy but is he a pure socialist-nope

OK.. now go tell that to all them ranting and raving tea party wacko's. Thanks in advance.
 
OK.. now go tell that to all them ranting and raving tea party wacko's. Thanks in advance.

I am not aware of any such people existing in significant numbers



the ranting and raving normally comes from the tapeworm set screaming about the tea party patriots
 
What do you want What If....a bunch of little McCains, Lindsey Grahams and Olympia Snowes running the country?

Just shoot me now! :)

I'm not sure what you're trying to say so I can't answer. Not being flip, just asking for clarification.
 
That's why there's record (or at least recent high) numbers of american expatriates, I mean mostly of multimillionaires / billionaires.

As for China... at this point if America went to war with China, China would win without even having to fire a shot at this point. If they allow chinese workers wages to increase well, that could break an already weak US economy... OR, since they own so much of our currency (debt), if they liquidate those assets, the hyper-inflation would break the economy. OR, if China put weight on the UN / IMF / World Bank to end the dollar as world reserve currency... the US doesn't have produce anything else anymore (on any mass scale for exports).

On the bright side, China has little motivation to do this, since the US is the biggest buyer of their cheap crap, that losing the US as a source of income just might be enough to cause a crash in the Chinese markets as well.



That's a conspiracy theory... globalization was a 'good deal'. Seriously though, is globalization really worth it, to decrease the numbers of starving people in foreign countries at the cost of creating a larger group of starving people in this country?

As for your position on food in the US... the only reason the homeless people aren't out robbing people is because they are getting enough from whatever they do throughout the day to get enough food (many times and drug money).

It's been shown many times that people will start stealing food after 3 days without... by 7 days most people will kill someone for food... and after 15 days cannibalism starts setting in. There are people that have the means and the know how to survive, but many will become cannibals, and inevitably if it gets that bad throughout the country you can expect millions, if not 10s of millions to die.



It's a fact that when government lowers taxes more jobs are created, more taxes are filed, and so more money comes in... within limits obviously.



Why would you strive to be the best and the brightest when all you really gotta strive for is a good jumpshot or to find a good connection to get into selling crack??



You mean 5$/ day or per week...



Meanwhile most universities have large enough endowment funds that the interest alone could be providing a free education to every student in america.... but, though I don't have the specific facts, would wager that much or most is invested outside of America.



Well, no, but maybe... to me, it seems more that Obama and the Dems are creating a merger of government and corporate entities, all the talking heads decry any opposition as racism, there have been massive increases in security related jobs, the office of the president has become a velvet-gloved dictatorship (specifically, the OFFICE not the man sitting in the chair who is simply there to animate the power within the office, and so is completely replaceable). Based on that sequence (though the dictator part requires interpretation, and much of the rest is very mild)... what is being built is historically called 'fascism'.

I mean, it's the dictionary definition of fascism... not sure how else to put it.

Just a little piece of information to consider: I have a couple of friends who do business in China. The wages of workers rising is a potential factor in your debate. But according to both of these parties, the number of people in China we would consider upper middle class or above is already larger than our workforce as a result of China's economic boom. The willing customers for products are already there.
 
And yet, they still preferred to live here than anywhere else. Imagine that! They chose freedom over regulatory protections.

Or at least decided it sucked less here. Doesn't take much to be "better" than some places.
 
You measure greatness by brute strength.
no actually, I do not and I said so at the end of the post to which you respond: taking the liberty of quoting myself: "Liberty,.... is the standard by which we are best considered GREAT" .

but many, if not MOST, folks consider the USA 'the greatest nation' because of wealth and power and it was necessary to show that, even accepting that premise, that america only attained that status after Roosevelt... as i had stated earlier.
So again, you measure our greatness by our ability to exert force on others, while I measure greatness by the ambition of others to make America their new home.
and, again, I do not. you should read all of the post, not only the part you think makes YOUR point.
Though there has always been regulation, to an extent...
nor can i say that I am much like my grandfather or greatgrandfather. if you wish to argue the merits of specific regulation, ok.... but that is not generally what happens here... what happens is a rant against regulation itself.
First of all, please refresh my memory. What was the second Stamp Act?
it is better known as the excise tax on distilled spirits imposed by Hamilton (as Sec of the Treasury) leading to the Whisky Rebellion - as is still common, a federal stamp was placed on the bottle and the act became knowm (to protesters, anyway) as the Second Stamp Act.
. We went 200 years without a Ralph Nader to save us. And in that time, cars were getting cheaper, safer, and more reliable with each passing year.
your characterization is extremely questionable (200 years? the first american gas vehicle was built by the Duryea brothers in 1893, Ford's mass production a decade later) but we can let most of it pass. two points will suffice - the first regulations were having to do with operatirng a vehicle. laws regulating usage and speed and suchlike things came within a few years.

"municipalities had their own ordinances regulating speeds, parking, the use of bells, horns and gongs, the making of unnecessary exhaust noise and the emission of noxious gas, smoke or steam, and they imposed fines for violations."
- American Highways

registration and tax began c. 1901. secondly, that people made lots of money without them does not equate to a lack of merit in safety reguations. Profit is not the measure of all things.
The same with Jim Crow laws! ....

now, I am going to withhold comment on the above and let you expand and hopefully clarify this a little.
Remember what I said about individual rights, property rights....
yes, i remember. and it is a rather common claim on the part of libertarians. but, i think perhaps they misunderstand what he was staying. i will compose a separte response on that, as it is important,

geo
 
actually, what Locke said was:
The commonwealth seems to me to be a society of men constituted only for the procuring, preserving, and advancing their own civil interests. . . . .Civil interests I call life, liberty, health, and indolency of body; and the possession of outward things, such as money, lands, houses, furniture, and the like.
John Locke - A Letter Concerning Toleration

note, please, CIVIL interests of a Commonwealth., those interests that include himself and all those in his community, a 'Commonwealth' being a social arrangement predicated on the well being of all its members, the 'Common Weal'. I particularly like that "indolence of body" part... something i excel at.

he goes to some extent to explain himself in his Second Treatise On Civil Government in the section On Property. In discussing the origins of private property before civilization and money messed everything up:
... every man has a property in his own person: this no body has any right to but himself. The labour of his body, and the work of his hands, we may say, are properly his. Whatsoever then he removes out of the state that nature hath provided, and left it in, he hath mixed his labour with, and joined to it something that is his own, and thereby makes it his property.

now, that seems clear enough, dunnit? but... of course, as the opening ellipses suggests... i left something out. the above paragraph begins..
God, who hath given the world to men in common, hath also given them reason to make use of it to the best advantage of life, and convenience. The earth, and all that is therein, is given to men for the support and comfort of their being.

Though the earth, and all inferior creatures, be common to all men, yet...
the earth and its resources belong to all of us, none more than another. People earn the right to claim it by working it and developing it and producing from it what they, themselves, need. There are two qualifying predicates, though, that a man take no more than he can use without waste
It will perhaps be objected to this, that...any one may ingross (ie "acquire") as much as he will. To which I answer, Not so. The same law of nature, that does by this means give us property, does also bound that property too..... how far has he given it us? As much as any one can make use of to any advantage of life....whatever is beyond this, is more than his share, and belongs to others.
THAT is the second predicate a man may not own so much as to deprive any other what he or she has the same rightful claim to. as long as there is plenty for everyone this was not a problem
Nor was this appropriation of any parcel of land... prejudice to any other man, since there was still enough, and as good left; and more than the yet unprovided could use.
but... that is no longer true. is it? what determines the rightfulness of claiming property now? what is the role of government in addressing that question? it is not the individual right to property that, according to Locke, obliges civil government, but the scarcity of such property. Civil government's role is to mediate the availability of resources with the need for them.
in governments, the laws regulate the right of property, and the possession of land is determined by positive constitutions.
again, we return to the notion of commons, our rights to claim them, and our obligation to share them
Whether we consider natural reason...or revelation...it is very clear, that God...has given the earth ... to mankind in common... in the beginning, before the desire of having more than man needed had altered the intrinsic value of things
hes says this NOT as a denial of the legitimacy of private property, but in search of its defense. The principle of 'private property' is dependent upon that of 'commons', without which, there would be nothing to claim
We see in commons, which remain so by compact, that it is the taking any part of what is common, and removing it out of the state nature leaves it in, which begins the property; without which the common is of no use.
so simple and clear... i would love to have had the opportunity to having out with m. Locke in his favorite pub... have a few jars.Why do people have such difficulty in accepting ideas so obvious? well, because he does not stop there.

the right to accumulate property greater than you need for your own well being is dependent on there being sufficient for others to acquire through their own efforts and in their own interests. He draws a comparison, again, of land as property and water which was already recognized as a 'commons' belonging to no individual.

"the case of land and water, where there is enough of both, is perfectly the same." where there is enough. where there is not enough, where everything is owned already or one takes more than he needs and deprives others "he took more than his share, and robbed others. ...it was a foolish thing, as well as dishonest, to hoard up more than he could make use of."

no, property is not theft, excess in the face of need is theft.

Abstract possession, money, changes the essential nature of property. With money a man owns land he does not himself "improve", that bears the fruit of the labor of others. Abstract possession allowed man to abrogate his tacit agreement ("compact") with others and to reject the laws of nature (and god) to own more than he could ever use and in so doing, deprive others of what they have a right to claim.

geo.
 
don't vote for him or his minions the next time you go to the polls

Now why in the hell would I do that? I am not wealthy, directly employed by an industry that aligns on the right, prone to peasant-like submission to extortion by wealth, or easily propagandized. I vote my best interest, as the Founders expected me to. Further, as the commercial media have clear biases towards their owners' parties, I trust none of them much, so I have actually made an effort to learn about the issues at hand and then carefully consider them, resulting in my ability to make an informed decision as to who or what best serves me, as is expected of me by those who set us free. I really appreciate that, and feel I am honoring them by doing so. Because the Founding Fathers did everything they could think of to prevent us from being re-taken as subjects by tyrants, and now it's up to us to protect their investment. "The price of Liberty is eternal vigilance", right? Hate to get to heaven and have Jefferson kick my ass for dereliction of duty, but that's just me. I know thinking is harder for some people than it is for others.
 
Now why in the hell would I do that? I am not wealthy, directly employed by an industry that aligns on the right, prone to peasant-like submission to extortion by wealth, or easily propagandized. I vote my best interest, as the Founders expected me to. Further, as the commercial media have clear biases towards their owners' parties, I trust none of them much, so I have actually made an effort to learn about the issues at hand and then carefully consider them, resulting in my ability to make an informed decision as to who or what best serves me, as is expected of me by those who set us free. I really appreciate that, and feel I am honoring them by doing so. Because the Founding Fathers did everything they could think of to prevent us from being re-taken as subjects by tyrants, and now it's up to us to protect their investment. "The price of Liberty is eternal vigilance", right? Hate to get to heaven and have Jefferson kick my ass for dereliction of duty, but that's just me. I know thinking is harder for some people than it is for others.

a party that panders to dependence might appear to be in the best interest of someone who thinks the handouts he gets is in his best interests. I have dealt with more than a few drug dealers and they are really convinced (or at least they pretend to) they are helping people and more than a few of their addicts think the pushers are helping them as well.

so tell me what is your best interest. mine is to be free of a parasitic government that wants to penalize me to buy the votes of the addicts that the dems pander to
 
a party that panders to dependence might appear to be in the best interest of someone who thinks the handouts he gets is in his best interests. I have dealt with more than a few drug dealers and they are really convinced (or at least they pretend to) they are helping people and more than a few of their addicts think the pushers are helping them as well.

so tell me what is your best interest. mine is to be free of a parasitic government that wants to penalize me to buy the votes of the addicts that the dems pander to

You might want to watch your mouth. Although I have been eligible more than once, I have never drawn unemployment, as I feel such social safety nets should be reserved for those with families to feed while a single man can make do with very little. Nor have I drawn any social security or welfare benefits. At one point I took general relief as I found myself penniless in San Diego. I used this money (like $80 cash, $120 in food stamps)to buy tools so I could take the job a friend set me up with. I still had food stamps when I got my first check. I used them to buy food, which I cooked for my friend that got me the job and his wife.

As to your question: Iwant to be free of a parasitic moneyed class that threatens me with poverty to extort tax cuts and pays PR hacks at FOX to propagandize me for votes.

Hell, give me a tax cut and I won't ship your job overseas either, and I'll throw in a baby unicorn and all kinds of other good stuff. But not until after the election...

And by the way, how dare you stand in the way of that poor drug dealer who is, after all, just trying to make a fair profit? Or try to tell his customers they can't do what they want to do with their own money? What are ya, some kinda commie? If we just eliminated the business killing regulations on the drug dealer industry, they would then be able to afford to expand their businesses and hire American workers instead of having to send those jobs overseas where terrorists will work for $5 day. Then they wouldn't need Obama's handouts and would be free to vote Republican, as every businessman should. They would need tax cuts then, of course. But government has to get out of the way of business doing business, so I'm sure you would support the above deregulation as well as the tax cuts for drug dealers. If Fox "News" says it's OK, of course. Addict vote buying problem solved by the market! Ain't it grand?
 
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