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damned socialist president!

Nothing, it's a wonderful idea.
Here's how it works.
Jay works hard and makes good money. Obama takes a big chunk to give to Joe who makes minimum wage so he can have a living wage. That's only fair.
Jay decides he would be OK with only a living wage.
Jay lays-off ( Ben and Jerry) who make a living wage.
Before Obama came along you had 4 people working. Jay making more than the others.(that's not fair) Ben and Jerry making a living wage,(that is fair) and Joe making minimum wage. (that's not fair)

Now you have 4 people making a living wage......oh wait

I like the classroom example

Joe studies hard and gets an A and Dave screws off and gets an F

So the teacher even things out and gives Joe a B and Dave a D so he passes

next time around, JOe figures why bust my ass for an A, I will work just enough to get a B but Dave again fails and this time Joe is pulled down to a C so Dave can pass. Next time Joe finds another class and Dave doesn't have anyone to pull him out of failure nor has he learned how to pass on his own
 
No and I was trying to keep it simple. What if... didn't want any cut and paste stuff. I just took Obama's spread the wealth around and went with it. I know socialism isn't that simple, but it still sucks big time.

well, i think it would benefit you to get a clear understanding of the system. Neither Marx NOR Lenin need be invoked.

geo.
 
vivid fantasy... if a trifle morbid.

I DO like how you admit that the legal minimum wage is not sufficient to live on. not many radical conservatives will.

the bizarre notion that m. Obama is a socialist would be laughable it it were not demonstrable of either pathetic ignorance, a seriously deranged thinking process or (as is most likely) an irresponsible, even rabid dedication to an ideology.

anyway, your understanding of 'socialism' seems a tad... weak. At best it is outdated and even when it was in vogue, it was inaccurate. perhaps you would care to clear it up for us? Can you identify a single existing economy that works this way?

geo.

minimu wage is something SMART people get out of the way while they are still in school or under their parents' roof. Its not designed to raise a family on, or pay for a kid you produced by knocking up your 17 year old girl friend

socialism means many things to many people but income redistribution is at the core of just about all of them

the wealthy SHOULD Help those truly unfortunate and those who are unable to help themselves due to accident bad luck or service to our nation. But such redistribution is mainly used by the left to buy votes and that truly sucks
 
vivid fantasy... if a trifle morbid.

I DO like how you admit that the legal minimum wage is not sufficient to live on. not many radical conservatives will.

the bizarre notion that m. Obama is a socialist would be laughable it it were not demonstrable of either pathetic ignorance, a seriously deranged thinking process or (as is most likely) an irresponsible, even rabid dedication to an ideology.

anyway, your understanding of 'socialism' seems a tad... weak. At best it is outdated and even when it was in vogue, it was inaccurate. perhaps you would care to clear it up for us? Can you identify a single existing economy that works this way?

geo.

Oh, I forgot. The minimum wage is not meant to be a living wage. Teen-agers living at home, a second income for a family,
seasonal jobs. Wages should be set by the market, not the government. If all wages are living wages, who's going to hire kids still in school or straight out of high school? Where are they going to get job experience? High minimum wages hurt jobs and the economy.
 
well, i think it would benefit you to get a clear understanding of the system. Neither Marx NOR Lenin need be invoked.

geo.

clue me in on your educational accomplishments so we can determine if you are able to lecture others on what socialism means.
 
well, i think it would benefit you to get a clear understanding of the system. Neither Marx NOR Lenin need be invoked.

geo.

I'm getting a pretty clear understanding by watching Obama ;-)
 
Oh, I forgot. The minimum wage is not meant to be a living wage. Teen-agers living at home, a second income for a family,
seasonal jobs. Wages should be set by the market, not the government. If all wages are living wages, who's going to hire kids still in school or straight out of high school? Where are they going to get job experience? High minimum wages hurt jobs and the economy.

market? there is no such thing. that there is such a thing as a market separate from the practice of buying and selling is one of the bizarre myths of capitalism. wages are set not by any mystical market but by employers.

before minimum wage laws were created people working full time starved in gutters and the owners of the factories that employed them let them starve because there was an enormous pool of unemployed dying (literally) to take their place and starve to death a little slower.

again, you are dealing in morbid fantasy.

geo.
 
market? there is no such thing. that there is such a thing as a market separate from the practice of buying and selling is one of the bizarre myths of capitalism. wages are set not by any mystical market but by employers.

before minimum wage laws were created people working full time starved in gutters and the owners of the factories that employed them let them starve because there was an enormous pool of unemployed dying (literally) to take their place and starve to death a little slower.

again, you are dealing in morbid fantasy.

geo.

its amazing how america became the greatest nation in the world with all the stuff you lefties whine about before we had the New Deal, death taxes and a confiscatory income tax

How many ancestors who came here from Scotland, England, France, Germany and Sweden--all poor-managed to survive is stunning without the great nanny state wiping their butts and providing the great public teat for them to suckle on

did it ever occur to you the reason why this country was so great was that it appealed to people with ambition and drive rather than those who wanted to be taken care of.
 
Boy, I tell ya, you can lead some people to water but you can't make 'em think. I've been trying to get some input that would lead to an interesting discussion. And have been stating clearly that I want to hear what people have to say, and will listen, but please not to just cut and paste the party line. And all I got was party line and "you're stupid" (well, not entirely, there have been comments, but no "responses"). And I still think that my "gremlin" theory is worth looking at, even if I didn't explain it well enough. But I have frankly been surprised by nastiness in response to something that isn't judgemental at all. I actually got sneered at for voicing the absurd proposal that it would be nice to have discussions where both sides know they are talking about the same thing, and that they have as clear an understanding of that thing as can be expected. Anyway, I enjoyed your post, and you obviously are aware that a lot of the conversation we hear every day is coming out the side of someone's neck.
 
its amazing how america became the greatest nation in the world with all the stuff you lefties whine about before we had the New Deal, death taxes and a confiscatory income tax
"Greatest"? a matter of opinion, i would think. we became the richest and most powerful nation in the world AFTER roosevelt and the new deal.

a little truth never hurt anyone except those dedicated to ignorance and ideology.
geo.
 
"Greatest"? a matter of opinion, i would think. we became the richest and most powerful nation in the world AFTER roosevelt and the new deal.

a little truth never hurt anyone except those dedicated to ignorance and ideology.
geo.

BS by 1920 we were number one but ambivalence or outright disgust with America tends to be common with the left these days

speaking of ignorance-claiming the new deal made us the greatest nation in the world is perhaps surpassed in stupidity only by the guy who claimed that spending by the government isn't the cause of government deficits
 
market? there is no such thing. that there is such a thing as a market separate from the practice of buying and selling is one of the bizarre myths of capitalism. wages are set not by any mystical market but by employers.

before minimum wage laws were created people working full time starved in gutters and the owners of the factories that employed them let them starve because there was an enormous pool of unemployed dying (literally) to take their place and starve to death a little slower.

again, you are dealing in morbid fantasy.

geo.
Oh for crying out loud. You are the morbid one. In a good economy people have to pay a decent wage to stay in business. How long will someone stay in business if customers see the employees dropping dead of starvation? How many factories will get their products out if the workers are too tired and hungry to do the work? You have a piss poor view of this country and it's people.
 
Please, communism and socialism are not the same thing (that's why they're different words), and when people explain why socialism sucks by using an example of communism it makes me feel like my head is going to explode. So please stop doing it, my wife is gonna kill me if I get brains all over the wall. You'd think it sucked to if someone went on at great length about how the 49ers are ruining baseball.
 
Please, communism and socialism are not the same thing (that's why they're different words), and when people explain why socialism sucks by using an example of communism it makes me feel like my head is going to explode. So please stop doing it, my wife is gonna kill me if I get brains all over the wall. You'd think it sucked to if someone went on at great length about how the 49ers are ruining baseball.

yeah socialism is like HIV

Communism is full blown AIDS
 
Well your customers won't see anything if you ship your business to China, and China appears to be doing just fine, maybe you should ask them
 
Oh for crying out loud. You are the morbid one. In a good economy people have to pay a decent wage to stay in business. How long will someone stay in business if customers see the employees dropping dead of starvation? How many factories will get their products out if the workers are too tired and hungry to do the work? You have a piss poor view of this country and it's people.

I guess you haven't read the Grapes of Wrath.

I personally knew a guy who was born to Italian immigrants in the Bronx in the 20s, and lived through the Great Depression.
The family nearly very starved to death, right here in the good old US of A, not even 70 years ago.
The boy was sold for farm labor in upstate New York. His older sister went into a convent so that she could eat. The parents went back to Europe.
The boy never saw any one of his family members again.
He joined the Air Force at 17, to escape what amounted to indentured servitude on a farm.
Eventually, many years later, his service brought him here, to Bergstrom Air Force base, and that's how I knew him (he's dead now).

I've talked to a lot of old people and heard a lot of terrible stories.
Why do you think there are so many old nuns?
Because a lot of young girls, especially immigrants and first-generation Americans, were left with no choice but to go into convents during the Depression; that or turn to prostitution or crime.

It was not so long ago that these things happened.
They could happen again.
 
Well your customers won't see anything if you ship your business to China, and China appears to be doing just fine, maybe you should ask them

haven't figured out how to reply to another post

we have no clue who you are responding to because that last post of yours really isn't relevant to what anyone said but the minimum wage will cause some employers to move their production off shore
 
I guess you haven't read the Grapes of Wrath.

I personally knew a guy who was born to Italian immigrants in the Bronx in the 20s, and lived through the Great Depression.
The family nearly very starved to death, right here in the good old US of A, not even 70 years ago.
The boy was sold for farm labor in upstate New York. His older sister went into a convent so that she could eat. The parents went back to Europe.
The boy never saw any one of his family members again.
He joined the Air Force at 17, to escape what amounted to indentured servitude on a farm.
Eventually, many years later, his service brought him here, to Bergstrom Air Force base, and that's how I knew him (he's dead now).

I've talked to a lot of old people and heard a lot of terrible stories.
Why do you think there are so many old nuns?
Because a lot of young girls, especially immigrants and first-generation Americans, were left with no choice but to go into convents during the Depression; that or turn to prostitution or crime.

It was not so long ago that these things happened.
They could happen again.

when lots of wealthy people start moving their assets out of america because they tire of having to pay most of the tax load all those dependent on the government are gonna be in for serious shock when the public treasury runs out of money to pay for all the people who have become addicted to the tax dollars of others

rich people tend to be more intelligent and more able to do such things than those stuck suckling on the public teat. one of my best friend's father retired and sold the multimillion business his father had started in the time before WWII (making prefab houses that became huge with returning service men) and parts for such things. He then took what he made and gradually moved it to a carribean paradise with no income taxes. 50 or so million that the greedy dems aren't going to get. He paid income taxes on his business for years plus his father paid estate taxes. but he ended the parasitic attack on his wealth
 
He then took what he made and gradually moved it to a carribean paradise with no income taxes.

Let me guess: the Caymens.
 
Well your customers won't see anything if you ship your business to China, and China appears to be doing just fine, maybe you should ask them

Well gee, if we had a president that was friendly to businesses they would stay here and maybe some others would come back. Instead we have a President who is very good at one thing and one thing only, and that's killing jobs.
If you want a minimum wage, fine. It just shouldn't be a living wage. That hurts the job market.

China isn't saddled with the uncertainty we are under this administration. They don't have a HC bill that is going to tank the economy. They don't have a new finance bill that we have no idea how it's going to affect us. The are exempt from any cap and tax that might get passed. Of course they are doing fine and we owe them big time. That really stinks.
 
Let me guess: the Caymens.

not the Caymans

that place is hard to establish residency in. I took part of my honeymoon there-on 7 mile beach-great place
 
Well gee, if we had a president that was friendly to businesses they would stay here and maybe some others would come back.

Businesses are not going to stay here no matter what.
Not when people can be induced to work for a dollar a day in developing nations.
 
Businesses are not going to stay here no matter what.
Not when people can be induced to work for a dollar a day in developing nations.

my father ran a business

heavy manufacturing

involved in the nuclear power business that Jimmy carter tried to kill

had to go to SC for some of the machining because the idiotic demands of the Union

didn't outsource most production but some went to Korea

beat shutting the company down and putting everyone out of work

people start companies to make money

NOT TO PROVIDE JOBS (or to buy materials for that matter-both labor and material acquisition is a byproduct of the main reason for starting a company)

if you don't want companies and the byproducts they provide from leaving, don't engage in activity that makes it unprofitable for them to remain in your area

its a simple concept
 
I guess you haven't read the Grapes of Wrath.

I personally knew a guy who was born to Italian immigrants in the Bronx in the 20s, and lived through the Great Depression.
The family nearly very starved to death, right here in the good old US of A, not even 70 years ago.
The boy was sold for farm labor in upstate New York. His older sister went into a convent so that she could eat. The parents went back to Europe.
The boy never saw any one of his family members again.
He joined the Air Force at 17, to escape what amounted to indentured servitude on a farm.
Eventually, many years later, his service brought him here, to Bergstrom Air Force base, and that's how I knew him (he's dead now).

I've talked to a lot of old people and heard a lot of terrible stories.
Why do you think there are so many old nuns?
Because a lot of young girls, especially immigrants and first-generation Americans, were left with no choice but to go into convents during the Depression; that or turn to prostitution or crime.

It was not so long ago that these things happened.
They could happen again.
Yes I have, and we're going to end up back there if Obama gets his way. I just happen to have more faith in this country than that.
 
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