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Czech anti-Roma protests end in arrests

Canell

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BBC News - Czech anti-Roma protests end in arrests

So it begins... The reaction against "tolerates" and "liberals" who have put the car in front of the horse, i.e. gave minorities privileges in violation of 'equality'.
The same awaits countries like Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary and even perhaps 'civilized' countries like France and Germany.
That's what happens when you "mechanically" mix cultures and people. :doh
 

shrubnose

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So it begins... The reaction against "tolerates" and "liberals" who have put the car in front of the horse, i.e. gave minorities privileges in violation of 'equality'.
The same awaits countries like Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary and even perhaps 'civilized' countries like France and Germany.
That's what happens when you "mechanically" mix cultures and people. :doh




Anyone who thinks that the USA is the only Western country with racism problems should check out this story.




"Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
 

joG

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BBC News - Czech anti-Roma protests end in arrests

So it begins... The reaction against "tolerates" and "liberals" who have put the car in front of the horse, i.e. gave minorities privileges in violation of 'equality'.
The same awaits countries like Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary and even perhaps 'civilized' countries like France and Germany.
That's what happens when you "mechanically" mix cultures and people. :doh

Sure it happens. And it happens much more aggressively, when the population into which the minority is "mechanically" mixed is xenophobic and intolerant. I only have personal experience of Romania, Hungary France and Germany. In these countries xenophobe emotions are widely spread in the populations and intolerance is often seen to be an asset in a society with laws, that can be used against non traditional behavior.
 

joG

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"Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
He is right.
 

Rainman05

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BBC News - Czech anti-Roma protests end in arrests

So it begins... The reaction against "tolerates" and "liberals" who have put the car in front of the horse, i.e. gave minorities privileges in violation of 'equality'.
The same awaits countries like Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary and even perhaps 'civilized' countries like France and Germany.
That's what happens when you "mechanically" mix cultures and people. :doh
Far right protests against gypsies are nothing new. We have a New Right political group and its activist group that has anti-gypsy ad campaigns and sometimes protests. Though violence is hardly ever an issue.

Most violence against gypsies are done by other gypsies. Usually in clan wars or age-old familial conflicts. Clan wars can start for anything from one gypsy oogling at another "off limits" gypsy, street turf, general insults or criminal activity overtaking.
Friday was the burial of the gypsy king in Romania. A thread is dedicated to this event for those who want to learn about it, though do get a puke bag. Anyway. Reporters said that the new "kings", there are 2, one for internal affairs and one for international affairs, did ban several gypsy clans from joining the funeral because of age-old conflicts. At the same time, asking gypsies to let bygones be bygones and stop killing each other in droves.

Sure it happens. And it happens much more aggressively, when the population into which the minority is "mechanically" mixed is xenophobic and intolerant. I only have personal experience of Romania, Hungary France and Germany. In these countries xenophobe emotions are widely spread in the populations and intolerance is often seen to be an asset in a society with laws, that can be used against non traditional behavior.
I don't think you know what you're talking about. In my country, gypsies have reserved slots in classrooms, unelected reserved slots in Parliament and other benefits that other ethnicities don't have.


I don't know what widespread xenophobia you are talking about but it's not one-sided. It's not that the native population is xenophobic and hateful and whatever, and the poor gypsies are underprivileges because of the mean natives. It's a two-way street, buddy.
 

Spriggs05

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BBC News - Czech anti-Roma protests end in arrests

So it begins... The reaction against "tolerates" and "liberals" who have put the car in front of the horse, i.e. gave minorities privileges in violation of 'equality'.
The same awaits countries like Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary and even perhaps 'civilized' countries like France and Germany.
That's what happens when you "mechanically" mix cultures and people. :doh
Its not just that Roma/Gypsies don't pay tax, steal peoples things (such as Horses or anything left outside) and still have Lavish Lifestyles, I myself have seen a gypsy convoy where at least 3 of them were wearing Armani cloths and on closer inspection a Rolex. They are travellers, they don't need those. This is what happens when the majority get fed up with the pro minority sentiment, because they are a minority.
 

joG

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Far right protests against gypsies are nothing new. We have a New Right political group and its activist group that has anti-gypsy ad campaigns and sometimes protests. Though violence is hardly ever an issue.

Most violence against gypsies are done by other gypsies. Usually in clan wars or age-old familial conflicts. Clan wars can start for anything from one gypsy oogling at another "off limits" gypsy, street turf, general insults or criminal activity overtaking.
Friday was the burial of the gypsy king in Romania. A thread is dedicated to this event for those who want to learn about it, though do get a puke bag. Anyway. Reporters said that the new "kings", there are 2, one for internal affairs and one for international affairs, did ban several gypsy clans from joining the funeral because of age-old conflicts. At the same time, asking gypsies to let bygones be bygones and stop killing each other in droves.

I don't think you know what you're talking about. In my country, gypsies have reserved slots in classrooms, unelected reserved slots in Parliament and other benefits that other ethnicities don't have.

I don't know what widespread xenophobia you are talking about but it's not one-sided. It's not that the native population is xenophobic and hateful and whatever, and the poor gypsies are underprivileges because of the mean natives. It's a two-way street, buddy.

I do not know which country you are referring to. But having to reserve slots in classrooms for a minority is as evident a symptom of a real problem as Dr King's having to have a dream was. One of the main problems is, when the population denies having that problem, because some of my best friends are Jews. A German friend actually said that to me once. Of course, he knew only Mr. Friedmann by sight, because we all frequented the same restaurant in Frankfurt.
 

Canell

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This is what happens when the majority get fed up with the pro minority sentiment, because they are a minority.
I don't mid them being a minority. I mind that they are granted privileges. :peace
 

Rainman05

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I do not know which country you are referring to. But having to reserve slots in classrooms for a minority is as evident a symptom of a real problem as Dr King's having to have a dream was. One of the main problems is, when the population denies having that problem, because some of my best friends are Jews. A German friend actually said that to me once. Of course, he knew only Mr. Friedmann by sight, because we all frequented the same restaurant in Frankfurt.
Yes, the real problem is that gypsies don't go to school and their culture doesn't encourage educational participation. Having reserved slots in school where gypsies only compete with other gypsies is a way to encourage school participation. Another is complete free of charge education for life. I graduated uni this year. If I had flunked 1year from the 4 years I have free education (so do 5yrs instead of 4), I would have had to pay 1 year tuition. Gypsies who attend uni (where they do have reserved slots) don't have to pay tuition regardless how many years they repeat.

Education is the best bet one population has for integration and better cross-ethnic relations. I mean it. There is no tool more effective for integration than education. No political programs. no social programs, no nothing. education. The same education given to everybody who attends school. That's it. Without that, you're pissing against the wind.

It is also the reason gypsies maintain the same mentality they had since centuries. They only adapted to the new stuff that exists in the world, but they didn't adapt their mentality and their habits. Which is a reason for the poverty among many gypsies. which is the cause of their practices which cause resentment among the population. And nothing can be done to fix it from the outside. They need to reform themselves.
 

Spriggs05

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I don't mid them being a minority. I mind that they are granted privileges. :peace
That was my point but phrased badly, sorry :)
 

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Yes, the real problem is that gypsies don't go to school and their culture doesn't encourage educational participation. Having reserved slots in school where gypsies only compete with other gypsies is a way to encourage school participation. Another is complete free of charge education for life. I graduated uni this year. If I had flunked 1year from the 4 years I have free education (so do 5yrs instead of 4), I would have had to pay 1 year tuition. Gypsies who attend uni (where they do have reserved slots) don't have to pay tuition regardless how many years they repeat.

Education is the best bet one population has for integration and better cross-ethnic relations. I mean it. There is no tool more effective for integration than education. No political programs. no social programs, no nothing. education. The same education given to everybody who attends school. That's it. Without that, you're pissing against the wind.

It is also the reason gypsies maintain the same mentality they had since centuries. They only adapted to the new stuff that exists in the world, but they didn't adapt their mentality and their habits. Which is a reason for the poverty among many gypsies. which is the cause of their practices which cause resentment among the population. And nothing can be done to fix it from the outside. They need to reform themselves.
You're assuming a traditionally nomadic people want to abandon their historical lifestyle and become modern citizens like everyone else. If you want them to change, you either have to offer as much free support as you can or put them in camps and either exterminate them or brainwash them into the lifestyle you want to force on them.

BBC News - Czech anti-Roma protests end in arrests

So it begins... The reaction against "tolerates" and "liberals" who have put the car in front of the horse, i.e. gave minorities privileges in violation of 'equality'.
The same awaits countries like Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary and even perhaps 'civilized' countries like France and Germany.
That's what happens when you "mechanically" mix cultures and people. :doh
And if somebody read the article to the end, perhaps you saw that similar gypsy related problems exist in neighboring Slovakia. :roll:

BBC News - Slovakia 'anti-Roma' wall in Kosice riles EU
Having spent time in Slovakia and the Czech Republic, speaking with people there, I can wholeheartedly agree with joG's finding of widespread zenophobia there. The trouble is, many of these countries are also dependent on EU funds for development and they are often tied to better treatment of the Roma within. Everyone realises it there so the resentment is often just words, they realise as a society that they can't treat the Roma as horribly as they wish because their EU funds would dry up overnight.

The extremists demonstrating in the article are the type who just don't care whether their country loses funds or not.
 

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Xenophobia, racism and the "blame syndrome" all happen during harsh times.. it is nothing new and will never change. It is always easier to blame the guy next door that does not look like or act like the rest of us, than actually tackle the root cause of the problems.
 

[]D e e v e s

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Anyone who thinks that the USA is the only Western country with racism problems should check out this story.




"Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll


I doubt that any think the USA is the 'capital' of racism given the history of Islam, India,Europe, of Stalin, Hitler etc.
Western countries certainly have much to be criticized for with racism, but that goes back to history before there was a North American USA.
Native Indians were of course known to have attacked and enslaved other tribes/clans before there was a USA.
Racism was and is a common nasty behavior of man.
 

[]D e e v e s

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BBC News - Czech anti-Roma protests end in arrests

So it begins... The reaction against "tolerates" and "liberals" who have put the car in front of the horse, i.e. gave minorities privileges in violation of 'equality'.
The same awaits countries like Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary and even perhaps 'civilized' countries like France and Germany.
That's what happens when you "mechanically" mix cultures and people. :doh
Nothing wrong with mixing cultures so long as the culture is not in conflict with the host countries laws or mores.
I refer to FGM or honor killing as examples. I also would include the masking of the face in public. What are the objectionable traits or cultures of the Roma? If more than appearance or innocuous life behavior, state such please. In any case if there are those that won't conform to LAWS that's one thing, but if only because they are different, that's reprehensible.
 

shrubnose

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I doubt that any think the USA is the 'capital' of racism given the history of Islam, India,Europe, of Stalin, Hitler etc.
Western countries certainly have much to be criticized for with racism, but that goes back to history before there was a North American USA.
Native Indians were of course known to have attacked and enslaved other tribes/clans before there was a USA.
Racism was and is a common nasty behavior of man.





Sad, but true all over this planet and not likely to end any time soon.

Those who deny its existence have their head in the sand.

Ignoring racism will never make it go away.
 

Canell

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Nothing wrong with mixing cultures so long as the culture is not in conflict with the host countries laws or mores...
What are the objectionable traits or cultures of the Roma?
They sell and buy brides, they give birth at 13-14 (which in my country is a felony but gypsies don't give a ****), just to name a few "cultural traits".
Other than that, they have a long tradition of stealing, pickpocketing, begging, fraud, laziness, not paying taxes, etc.
 

Canell

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I'm not quite sure what point you think you are making here. Roma have existed in all of those countries since before they were countries.
And yet they haven't integrated one bit. Well, may be a little.

What does "mechanically" mix cultures mean?
Putting people together without taking their cultural traits into consideration.

And what would you see as the ideal alternative?
I don't know? Mass extinction event? :afraid:
 

Andalublue

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And yet they haven't integrated one bit. Well, may be a little.
Well, given that they don't wish to integrate, what are you going to do?


Putting people together without taking their cultural traits into consideration.
Nobody 'put' these peoples together, they just share the same geographic area, and always have. There was no conscious mixing in the first place.



I don't know? Mass extinction event? :afraid:
Well, that does seem to be the logical corollary of your argument. You know that was tried on the Roma before, don't you?
 

Canell

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Nobody 'put' these peoples together, they just share the same geographic area, and always have. There was no conscious mixing in the first place.
I wasn't referring specifically Roma, they are just an example. I was referring to that liberal kind of globalization where everything is possible and nothing is clear.
The EU tries to blend us into some kind of one nation but I don't know exactly what that is.
 

Andalublue

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I wasn't referring specifically Roma, they are just an example.
Obviously a very bad example, as that's not what happened at all.

I was referring to that liberal kind of globalization where everything is possible and nothing is clear.
That's another sentence that makes no logical sense. What exactly do you mean by 'liberal kind of globalization'? Otherwise you're just talking in generalised platitudes.

The EU tries to blend us into some kind of one nation but I don't know exactly what that is.
Clearly. Neither does anyone else because no one has suggested it. Be specific about what it is you think the EU is doing to 'blend us into some kind of one nation'. The Eurozone? Was anyone pressured into joining that? Were the EU members who elected not to join discriminated against? What specific aspects of nationhood are you referring to, that the EU is trying to adopt for itself?
 

Canell

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That's another sentence that makes no logical sense. What exactly do you mean by 'liberal kind of globalization'?
Economic globalization + disregard of cultural realities.

What specific aspects of nationhood are you referring to, that the EU is trying to adopt for itself?
 
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