cherith said:According to the Bible are Catholics cursed?
As human beings in general and as as Christians inparticular shouldn't everyone care?Who cares?
cherith said:As human beings in general and as as Christians inparticular shouldn't everyone care?
If your fellowman is heading in the wrong direction would'nt you want proof so you could correct him in the error of his way?
Wouldn't caring be the...American way?
To care is to show compassion and concern. It's sort of like a weather man caring, so he/she warns others about a hurricane, tornado, etc... before it hits, when it makes landfall, and after it leaves. I guess you could also ask, "Should a weatherman care?"
...maybe you're right, should anyone care?
I see...so do you feel any compassion for Catholics?Personally....I really dont care, as I no longer feel compassion for the devoutly Christian. After years of blatant downlooking based on ancient texts of questionable validity, I try to avoid these people as much as possible. One could even say all who take the scriptures literally are in some ways cursed....with self induced ignorance of knowledge.
cherith said:I see...so do you feel any compassion for Catholics?
Would such a thing ever happen to a Catholic?I was born and raised Catholic, and must say I have never been told I would burn in hell by a Catholic.
I see you like to analyze and that's a good thing just try not to jump to conclusions. I don't know a lot about Catholics. I have never studdied Catholics, nor have I ever attended a Catholic church, nor have I ever studied a Catholic Bible. All I know is things I've heard. ...so let me ask you, and a few others some questions about things I am not sure about since you have an open mind, and seem so eager."Feeling compassion" for someone is often a cover story used by some evangelists to criticize them. They feel compassion for unwed mothers seeking abortions, or gays, or Jews, or Catholics.
Seems you have more to say on the subject of Catholics, so why don't you come right out and say what YOU think is in the Bible that Catholics should worry about regarding their potential salvation.
Then, we can discuss it better.
cherith said:1. Do any Catholics call any of the men in their churches, "Father?" If so why?
2. Do any Catholics make confessions about their sins to anyone of the men in their churches? If so why?
Well similar to the Catholic religion, there was a time when it mirrored Christian customs. If it is true that Catholics go to a man to repent of their sins, there was a time when Christians did the same thing. God sat Moses up to be that man. He built a mobil temple with two rooms in it-the Holy room and the Most Holy room. The Christians repented of their sins to him (Moses) and once a year he offered up the blood of bulls and goats in order for their sins to be forgiven.so why don't you come right out and say what YOU think is in the Bible that Catholics should worry about regarding their potential salvation.
Then, we can discuss it better.
cherith said:Well similar to the Catholic religion, there was a time when it mirrored Christian customs. If it is true that Catholics go to a man to repent of their sins, there was a time when Christians did the same thing. God sat Moses up to be that man. He built a mobil temple with two rooms in it-the Holy room and the Most Holy room. The Christians repented of their sins to him (Moses) and once a year he offered up the blood of bulls and goats in order for their sins to be forgiven.
...this is a type of repentance for sins that is know as, and that was done when Christians were under "The Law" or in "Bondage" as the Bible referes to it both ways.
Because of the fact that the blood of bulls and goats could not take away sins to where they were remitted and remembered no more, but could only give forgiveness for sins; God sent his Son/Jesus.
Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Once a man shed blood for our sins (as opposed to a bull and a goat's blood) Moses' veil on his portable temple was ripped away, and we at that time were no longer under the law, but we are now under grace. We longer have to go through the veil of a portable temple, but we can go directly to Jesus in faith and talk to him ourselves. We do not need an arbitrator to repent to, in hopes that the arbitrator will go to the Lord on our behalf.
Jesus said that if we go back to the law of repenting to another man, that we are cursed if we hang ourselves back on the tree that he has already hung on for us. He also warned us that if we keep ourselves under the law rather than grace, that we would have to keep all of the over 400 laws and continue in them all.
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
It's not about a Catholic being better than a Christian nor the other way around. I asking the question "Are Catholics cursed?" according to the words of God in the Bible since they are required to remain under the law based on the rituals of their religion.
1. It could be that Catholics don't repent to a man any more-I don't know.
2. It could be that Catholics are not required by God to obey anything in the Holy Bible-I don't know.
3. It could be that the law v/s grace is no where in the Catholic Bible-I don't know.
One last thing I don't understand is that as a Christian, our Holy Bible forbids us to call any other man on earth, "Father" However, it seems that many Catholics must do that based on the respect of their religion. Our Bible says:
Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Like I said before, a Christian is no better than a Catholic, nor is a Catholic any better than a Christian. However, what is better than both is obedience to God, and doing what God/Jesus has said to do above what man tries to tell one to do. I have more to say, but I will await a response.
Your acusation forced me to go back and read what I stated, and I was unable to point out where I attacked anyone. Could you please cut and paste that part? I was under the impression that out of pure ignorance of the Catholic faith that I merely asked questions, and provided scripture. I try to stear clear of attacking. Most people already know of their faults. If you could point out my exact attack of someone, I'd appreciate it.Your points are well made, BUT, I suggest you worry more about living your own beliefs than attacking the beliefs of others.
Well, grace gives us the opportunity to partake of the gift of eternal salvation. Moving into the stages of from faith to faith.Concerning GRACE, some think that it is the "end all and be all" of the plan of salvation, and that works are of no importance. Bear in mind that when we get to the judgment bar, we will not be judged on what be believed, but what we did for, or to, our fellow man.
That's interesting, but don't leave out the teachings from the major and minor prophets. Many of them were shown signs, dreams, revelations, and taken into heaven and shown of things to come. The apostles are great as well. Paul was a chosen vessel. Jesus is the light, and he said that he would send a "light to lighten" and that light to lighten that he sent was Paul. I like Paul. He was bold as a heathen and bold as a saint. He is also on of those who was taken into the third heaven.I prefer the teachings in a certain order of importance, first the words of Christ as found in the 4 gospels, then the words of original apostles, and lastly Paul. Some Christians I have debated with are very knowledgeable in the words of Paul, but not the words of Christ, which are the foundation, or the basics of Christianity. And if you can't do the basics, the rest is very likely to be a waste of time.
cherith said:1. Do any Catholics call any of the men in their churches, "Father?" If so why?
2. Do any Catholics make confessions about their sins to anyone of the men in their churches? If so why?
cherith said:I see you like to analyze and that's a good thing just try not to jump to conclusions. I don't know a lot about Catholics. I have never studdied Catholics, nor have I ever attended a Catholic church, nor have I ever studied a Catholic Bible. All I know is things I've heard. ...so let me ask you, and a few others some questions about things I am not sure about since you have an open mind, and seem so eager.
1. Do any Catholics call any of the men in their churches, "Father?" If so why?
2. Do any Catholics make confessions about their sins to anyone of the men in their churches? If so why?
I'm pretty sure that such a thing would make a Catholic take offense, however that is not the intention. Taking offense would mean being upset with God's Word, and that is not wise. Just because the Christians Holy Bible says that one is cursed if they do such things does not mean that a Catholic will stop doing them. We're merely discussing it. As a Christian, we must believe God and the Word of God-the Holy Bible. It may say that one is cursed, but cursed does not necessarily mean loss of salvation.I am pretty sure that some Catholics would take offense at the idea of being cursed because of using the term father in the way that they do.
No Ma'am/Sir, no one is stirring up anything just merely discussing. I do not have the power to give anyone eternal salvation-I'm only discussing to gain a better understanding. As far as TV goes one can not always believe what they see and hear on TV. The television portrays Catholic females as being sluts who can cook good, but also have extra men on the side. Should I believe that? T.V. is not always the best way of getting to know something. One of the better ways is by simply asking.Like I said, if you don't already know the answer to the questions, you must never watch TV. Surely everyone in the USA knows that they do use the term father, and make confessions to men. Then you trot out the scriptures that say we should not do that. That is a challenge to their beliefs.
The Catholic Bible is the same as ours, plus a few extra books. So if you have studied your Bible, you have studied almost all of theirs.
Sorry, but it just seems to me that you are stirring up an issue just to challenge it.
cherith said:I'm pretty sure that such a thing would make a Catholic take offense, however that is not the intention. Taking offense would mean being upset with God's Word, and that is not wise.
No Ma'am/Sir, no one is stirring up anything just merely discussing. As far as TV goes one can not always believe what they say and hear on TV. The television portrays Catholic females as being sluts who can cook good, but also have extra men on the side.
I get the feeling that the spirit in you wants a challenge, a debate, etc... Sorry, that is not what this is about.
Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. James 5:16
jallman said:Perhaps it would be better for you to learn the tenets of a religion before making these unruly assumptions and naming a large portion of the world's population "cursed". Any catholic worth his salt would be willing to explain these basic principles to you...seek one out and ask.
UtahBill said:Well played, sir. I was going to go get a Catholic neighbor but you took care of it with aplomb, whatever aplomb is.
Thank you... very much for your honest explanation. If you feel that you're being attacked as far as your religion goes, that was not the intention. I asked a simple question about something I was not sure about. Now if you went to another country and a foreigner asked you the same question, "Are Catholics cursed?" you would not feel that anyone was attacking you. Why do you feel attacked if an American asks you a question about your religion? I am a Christian, and there is no question I would not mind answering from anyone about Christianity, and I would not feel attacked. If one has faith in what they believe in how can they feel attacked if asked about it?Alright, so now lets hear from a catholic. I do take great offense at the idea that catholics are cursed...and you are basing this on a totally erroneous premise. The use of the word Father is not an appellation comparing the priest to God in any way. There are Brothers, Sisters, Mothers, and Fathers and the titles only refer to the family position within the church. We in no way look at the priest as being an extension of God, though we do respect our priests deeply because these are men who have sacrificed their lives in the pursuit of spiritual connection with God.
That's a very good verse you added. However, the difference is confession and forgiveness. Based on that verse, we as Christians may:On the second point...confession of sins to other members of the Church is actually a very biblical and New Testament order:
Quote:
Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. James 5:16
We look to our priests to confess our sins because these men are seen as being the most spiritually strengthened and least likely to be weakened by contact with the sins of others. These learned men also give counsel and guidance on repentance and pray as righteous men for our intercession. There is nothing in our catechism that states a priest is the only way to recieve forgiveness, but it is an institution to confess to the priests as their job is to minister to the flock.
Once again I appreciate you taking out the time to explain all of this to me. It was very helpful. I see you're comfortable with the accusations of me making "unruly assumptions despite that fact that questions were asked from the very beginning, but if you're comfortable your judgement against me may stand. God bless you.Perhaps it would be better for you to learn the tenets of a religion before making these unruly assumptions and naming a large portion of the world's population "cursed". Any catholic worth his salt would be willing to explain these basic principles to you...seek one out and ask.
In the NT, when Jesus forgave, he usually said "Go, and sin no more". That makes me believe that forgiveness requires true repentance, which for a particular sin means you don't do that sin anymore, and preferably not any sin, but we are only human and weak. Short version, if you go out and do it again, you have not truly repented, and just might not be forgiven of the first time you did it.cherith said:"Now go and repent to God." As long as the priest does not do that-he is acthing as God or in place of God. Once again I appreciate you taking out the time to explain all of this to me. It was very helpful. I see you're comfortable with the accusations of me making "unruly assumptions despite that fact that questions were asked from the very beginning, but if you're comfortable your judgement against me may stand. God bless you.
cherith said:Thank you... very much for your honest explanation. If you feel that you're being attacked as far as your religion goes, that was not the intention. I asked a simple question about something I was not sure about. Now if you went to another country and a foreigner asked you the same question, "Are Catholics cursed?" you would not feel that anyone was attacking you. Why do you feel attacked if an American asks you a question about your religion? I am a Christian, and there is no question I would not mind answering from anyone about Christianity, and I would not feel attacked. If one has faith in what they believe in how can they feel attacked if asked about it? That's a very good verse you added. However, the difference is confession and forgiveness. Based on that verse, we as Christians may:
1. Confess a sin to the entire congregation of the church
2. Or to another person; however,
3. We nor the church will ever attempt to offer forgiveness for the confessed sin. Also,
4. We immediately tell the person who has confessed a sin to repent to God in Jesus' name in order for them to remember where their complete forgiveness comes from.
Isn't it true that Catholics on the other hand confess their sins to the priest and receive forgiveness of the exact same sin(s) from the priest? Maybe you're. Maybe it's nothing wrong with it as long as the priest tells that person, "Now go and repent to God." As long as the priest does not do that-he is acthing as God or in place of God. Once again I appreciate you taking out the time to explain all of this to me. It was very helpful. I see you're comfortable with the accusations of me making "unruly assumptions despite that fact that questions were asked from the very beginning, but if you're comfortable your judgement against me may stand. God bless you.